A Few Words

[WhiteWizard]

Hi everyone,

I just thought it would be a good idea for me to set out what my main aims for this section are.

1. To give disabled people looking for new activities the information they need to start a Martial Art or just to even know that it is possible.

2. To give current students the opportunity to discuss problems that they are having so that others may be able to help.

3. To give instructors a place to ask questions about training people with disabilities. Including things they may have to adapt how they can adapt them among other things.

4. A place for people to learn about other peoples problems and give us all a little more understanding.

Edit

In no way are we here to label disabled Martial Artists in any negative way. If anything i would hope it would highlight the posotives that people can get from Martial Arts

[YODA]

Excellent - sounds like a great resource.

I've had two members so far say to me privately that they think this area is a bad idea. Funnily enough they don't seem to have the balls to come in here and raise their concerns.

[Cyph]

maybe they don't want to offend anyone?

[KickChick]

Originally posted by YODA
Funnily enough they don't seem to have the balls to come in here and raise their concerns.

hence, they're "intellectually disabled"

Offend...??

This forum will be educational to both the abled martial artist and the disabled.


With the quality of moderation we have here I see no concern.

[Andy Murray]

Fully support you WW,
this is also potentially a great resource for instructors.

To me, MA is all about overcoming adversity, so crack on. ;)

[Brad Ellin]

Full support from me too, WW.

[Cain]

Full support from me three! ;)

I can't see how this is a bad idea....unless they gave a few good reasons....

|Cain|

[Brad Ellin]

um, Cain, what would be a "few good reasons"? I can't see any reason why this would be a bad idea.. I think it's one of the best ideas to come along.

[Greg-VT]

Perhaps the those who dislike this forum are disabled?
I can see that could be the case.

They try to work their way into the mainstream-abled martial artists to be one and the same, and then they are seperated and given their own 'class' dispite what they've worked/tryed for.


Personally, I welcome this new forum section. It'll be good source of information for possible future classmates, and subtleties that could help interface.

And ya gunna do a great job, WW. 100% ;)

[Saz]

I've also had people tell me via PM they think this area is a bad idea, but haven't had a real reason for it. It seems they're in the minority, most of the feedback we've had is positive, including from disabled martial artists and people who train them.

If people have a problem with the fact that we have an area for the discussion of this sort of thing, they should bring it up for discussion here, or keep it to themselves.

They try to work their way into the mainstream-abled martial artists to be one and the same, and then they are seperated and given their own 'class' dispite what they've worked/tryed for

I see your point VT, and I know you have no bad intentions behind it.

People who say that calling an area "Disabled Martial Artists" is discrimination, is far from it (people have to me, via PM again). If thats discrimination, why do we have Disabled Parking bays, disabled enterances to shops, and facilities for disabled people to use the gym/pool properly? Its not about segregating people, its about helping them make the most of what they can. If you have different needs, you need different methods to make the best of your skills. So why not have a specific area to discuss the challenges faced by disabled martial artsists? The fact is, practising martial arts if you have a disability is about 100 times more challenging than a regular martial artist finds it.

Discussing your disabilities and the issues they raise in the main forum can cause them to be overlooked, ignored or even viewed as "trolling" by people who misunderstand the aim of the post (I remember a disabled member we had a while back who mistakenly got labled as a troll because of some of the things he said, and subsquently, we haven't seen them since)

I'm all for this forum, and personally think its a great idea. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing like this on any other martial arts forum. I have disabled family, and disabled friends, some of who have practised MA, some of who haven't, but would like to. I know they wouldn't have a problem with this area, in fact, they'd welcome it as somewhere they can ask questions and get taken seriously.

[Jewbacca]

Hell yes. Lack of a disabled martial arts forum is the reason I kinda fizzled away in sept.

There wasn't any other forum that really related to me, other than "Weapons" or "Other," which was kinda like sticking my hand in a McDonald's toy grab bag and looking for a diamond (so to speak).

[YODA]

*Applause KGirl.

[Cudgel]

Hey this is cool. Even though I wont post here too often.

[Brad Ellin]

*Hands clappin** Well put Kgirl, well put!

[KickChick]

Very good post Kgirl....

... might I add one other thing.

Just a note to "abled" martial artists. There may come a time that you may find yourself in similar situations as many of our "disabled" members... be it that you become disabled yourself or that it may be one of your students.

Maybe not so much are they "disabled" martial artists.... but "differently-abled" martial artists! :)

[WhiteWizard]

Thats a good point Deb a lot of the stuff relevant to disabled people come into play in later life just through general deteriation of senses. The material here can be useful on many more levels than what people may think.

The whole semantic thing of what "disabled" means to some can also be confusing but as you say its more to reference the fact that these peoples face different problems when training however more than likely they have greater ability to use other areas than the average person

[rolling thunder]

Please excuse me pasting tis from another thread. I felt it needed to be seen in here as well. i do not make a habit out of posting things twice though.*g*

Hello all................I am a 4th dan blackbelt in taekwondo. I own my own school and presently have about 90 students. I am 50 years old.

I have been parapalegic since an auto accident in 1995.

I have taken my entire curriculum and adopted it to the needs of students in wheelchairs as well as other hinderences.

I have developed and am about to release for sale a series of tapes entitled "Seated Self-defense". Look for them in martial art and disabled magazines. I will also soon have a website both for my school and to to market these tapes.

The exercises, drills and techinques I show on these tapes are designed for the student to practice and advance so far as their disability will allow them.

Though these tapes when used for training will not turn a person in a wheelchair into "Hell on wheels" but they most certainly will greatly enhance one's self-defense ability and confidence.

I have spent th last 5 years working on these techniques with many other martial arts instructors of many styles. I use the essay writen by Darren lauer as to the "Anatomy of fear" and how that relates to self-defense.

I am also a member of the Paralyzed Veterans of America, (PVA) and have gotten my wheelchaired Taekwondo Sports program (sparring, forms and breaking) accepted into the 2004 PVA World Wheelchair games in St. Louis as an exhibition sport. It must hold up for three years to be recieved as an offical sport.

If anyone is interested in these tapes they will be available this June. If anyone has any questions whatsoever about disabled martial arts, just post it and I will answer it to the best of my ability.

I have a student who is blind, a student who is deaf, two younger students with spina bifada and four with spinal cord injuries. ALL of them must train in my regular classes with everyone else.

After all, even if it is only because we can't get away us people in wheelchairs tend not to be violent people.....besides, what good is it to teach someone in a wheelchair to fight somebody else in a wheelchair?

I also find that besides getting many people with disabilities a chance to get more in the "mainstream" of life and people my program also helps introduce young children (as young as 4) as well as others who do not know anyone with severe disabilities a chance to get to know them and realize that no matter what the differences may be, that we all have much more in common.

The feats that I and some of my students do and the determination and sheer hardwork that we all must do to make up for any shortcomings is both applauded and inspiring to those that see it.

To see someone who is challenged mentally or physically attempt to do something well that they will never do as well as their less challenged peers and the joy they get as well as the overwhelming determination they show in spite of it all should be an inspiration to all. It is the very epitome of indomitable spirit.

[BackFistMonkey]

For the injured martial artists too . I know that most martial artists end up injured at some point in time . I think the thread is great . Disablled Martial Artists is the name of the thread . Brake a few toes and you fit the catagory for a while evn if its not the point of the thread . If you have a limit or a obsticle in your training ( from Lupus to paralization to a broken pinky knuckle )its nice to hear how others have overcome similiar/different/worse/easier/ situations ...

Having this open forum to express your frustrations , accomplishments , goals , and training techniques will hopefully not upset anyone . I will be crawling through here with a fine tooth comb looking for ways to compensate for my failing knees .

[inosanto1]

hi lads/lasses, just thought i would jump in and say a few words about this subject, as it relates to me(i refrain from capitals). I am disabled, have a curved spine with bars holding it together and a hip that was replaced. i trained in the martial arts before this and now train in jkd/kali/escima and grappling.

anyone averse to disabled people inthe martial arts should not be in the arts, period!!!


Thanks

Mark

[Pog]

Interesting - I'm classed as disabled, but my prosthesis is classed as a dangerous weapon (having nearly knocked myself out doing an axe kick, I can vouch for it). Surely that makes me enabled? (I'm legally allowed to walk around with it).

Second point - The best form of self defence is to run - what happens if you cannot?

Make sure your block is effective like this - Ouch!

[Canemaker]

This sounds like a great site. I am a disabled vet and know one would be more surprised then me to be disabled. It can happen in the blink of an eye or slowly disable you over the period of years. I will give you a quote: "There by the grace of God go I." I AM DISABLED! Now I have two choices, I can be angry and disabled or I can be disabled make the best of the situation. For me. I have choosen cain training for my exercises and mental well being

[inosanto1]

bruce lee was technically disabled. short sighted, one leg longer than the other and a bad back. live by his example be formless, shapeless like water. do not adhere to the confines of the ideas of others, break the moulds. i like the idea of the secret weapon being a prosthesis, how does that work for you, when you are not knocking yaself out.

[inosanto1]

is caintraining the same as kali/escrima

[Canemaker]

Sorry Cain should be cane

[inosanto1]

i was not going to pick you up on that but, ok, it should be cane. are the movements like escrima, basic 12 count strikes etc or is it based on the traditional staff

[Canemaker]

Insanto 1, It is not all that complicated. I am a fan of Master Shuey and Canemasters. I like the idea that I can carry a Cane (weapon) anywhere I go. That sounds like a magazine ad but "I carry my cane everywhere I go."

I was at a Presidental rally with President Bush attending. I went through the security gate with my Canematers Combat Cane. Try that with your Martial Arts weapon of choice. I like carrying my cane. It feels good and lots of people ask questions. I now collect canes of all sorts, except sword canes. Sword canes are consided concealed weapons in many States and Countries. I like the Idea that I can carry a cane (my weapon of choice) anywhere I go with out being questioned. By the way, I refinish the old canes I get and if I don't put them in my collection I donate them to the handicapped. Anyone out there that has some old canes let me know!

[JuztMeee]

... might I add one other thing.

Just a note to "abled" martial artists. There may come a time that you may find yourself in similar situations as many of our "disabled" members... be it that you become disabled yourself or that it may be one of your students.

Maybe not so much are they "disabled" martial artists.... but "differently-abled" martial artists! :)


This get's very close to the point. I haven't looked at the other threads yet -- perhaps this comment belongs elsewhere -- but I had to open my electronic mouth. (I'm not known for keeping it shut.)

Much of what is being said here seems to beat around one question. What is a disability? Some would quickly buy into the idea of being differently enabled. Others would look more closely at what one is unable to do. The fact of the matter is that the disabled or differently enabled are part of society and all parts of society need to figure out how they will deal with us. In 1983 The United States Army decided they didn't need me anymore -- because their doctor's had decided I have crone's disease. So they handed me off to the VA. The VA labeled me 30% disabled. (Personal note -- on a good day it may only be 5% -- on a bad day it may be more like 75%. Fortunately I have very few bad days.)

I suppose I fall into the differently enabled category. If you met me on the street you wouldn't even think disabled. As already stated I have Crone's disease -- it's a very complex gastrointestinal disorder that they're only now beginning to understand well enough to even ask intelligent questions about. Some in the medical community are suggesting that it's not a disease but a set of diseases that can (and often is) developed in sets -- meaning that you have a group of things that can go wrong and most of us won't have all of them. The common denominator is inflammation of the intestinal tract (sometimes but not always all of it -- starting with the mouth and going all the way through). We also tend to have inflammation in our joints (arthritis), nobody knows exactly why. The one place that it just about always shows up is the terminal ileum -- that's where your large and small intestines join and also happens to be where much of the Vitamin B-12 is absorbed in your system. (B-12 is one of the three things you need to make blood -- so we tend to be anemic.) They have figured out that the immune system is tied up in how things get screwed up to begin with (which may, for the first time, explain the arthritis ). Okay -- so why have I bothered to give this slightly technical explanation that most of you couldn't care less about?

For a very LONG LONG time some of the best healers in China were the Martial Artists. It made sense -- they had to deal with injuries. Now -- there's one other thing they were deeply interested in -- Chi. Guess what, the internal arts have a good deal to offer the Medical community and the Medical community is beginning (reluctantly) to admit it. (Not to mention the fact that exercise is generally beneficial for everyone.)

There have been two things that have helped me live a vastly more normal life: Immunosuppressant Drugs and Tai Chi (with it's associated Qigong). It's very interesting -- if you take a "map" of the Chi system, lay over that a map of the pressure points/accupuncture points, lay over that a map of the circulatory system and lay over that a map of the nervous system -- guess what they are all co-located. Nobody can explain it adequatly yet -- but these systems are all interconnected. If you're interested in more information I would refer you to the writtings of Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming. (It seems it took a western trained engineer who is also an eastern trained martial artist with a history of gut problems to help make the connection.)

The traditional writtings of our arts seem to have much to offer to the disabled or differently enabled. (By the way -- we are all differently enabled because we are all different.)

[canemaster]

Hi all-
So I see we have another Canemasters fan in this thread- cool! YES, a Canemasters Cane (or any other walking stick you'd use) are the only "weapons" allowed thru security at major functions, on airplanes and past metal detectors.
Question-does anyone know of any organizations that have MA sparring/grappling/forms for "disabled" martial artists? There sure don't seem to be in the NY Metro area-except I believe the Special Olympics that deal with those that are mentally challenged. Right now, I am just frustrated-something called the New York State Martial Arts Championships has a division of forms for children with disabilities, NOT adults. I may participate in 40+ weapons forms if my instructors feel I an ready. They are also concerned I wouldn't get a fair shake from the judges. Having never competed, I have no way of discerning this. But anyone with suggestions, please feel free.

Lord Bless all Canemaster

[jorvik]

Well I guess I have to jump in here. And let me start by saying that I can totally understand the folks who don't want a "Disabled Forum"
I know where they are coming from,,,,,but I'm coming from there as well:jawdrop:
I am a long term martial artists, I've done it from childhood and I'm now 53.............cutting to the chase I modelled myself on the kick boxer Bill Wallace, tried to learn all his moves.guess I did it too well ( he has had hip replacements).....and so have I, the first one 6 years ago the last one on 23/10/2008.same hip...however, My wife thinks I'm crazy..I won't stop, never:bang:.........on the last occasion I switched to Wing-Chun and Escrima, and I'm still there....can't do it for a while yet but I will.nothing wrong with my upper body, and maybe my lower body won't be so bad ( right now it looks like I've been chewed by a great white).....................I think somebody should start talking about the "Dangers of Martial arts".........my hip was down to over zealous training, the very best Jiu-Jitsu player I knowhad arthritis of the spine,,,,,,,,,,,,when he threw you it was like being taken by a gust of wind, but he could only do that on his "Good" days
Sticks are great...........as are karambits and pieces of shiny steel:hat:

[Lotti]

Hi Lotti here.

I've just joined the site amd it pleases me to find this thread

I have had two heart operation and am now 100% pacemaker dependant.

I approached my TKD instructor wanting to know if I could even think about doing TKD.

He was more than happy to have me join and I have permission from the BTC to grade without sparring.

I do struggle to keep up with all the black belts in my class, but if I can not cope I stop. Simple as that.

It has given me a new lease on life and I love it. It's great excercise and I am learning how to defend myself safely.

Lotti

[Satchoki]

This is a great idea. No other martial arts forums i've been to have a forum like this.

[hkdstl]

I got disbled while serving in the Marines. I have done the martial arts since childhood. I hate nothing more than some smart guy who can do dynamic kicking and has no problem doing back leg kicking acts a bit superior to the one who does have problems. However, here's the rub......Mr. Fantastic may kick fast but their chambering is not that good.

Plus it is amazing, there are so many people I have met along the way that have burned out. I am still here. Plus having the disabled martial arts section is the real reason why I joined the board.

[Terri63]

I am 46 yr odl woman who im april 2010 was diagnosed w/ early onset parkinsons..something totally out of left field...coincidently, this occured w/ in days of my having taken my 1st karate class..and fallling i love w/ it...Only judging by how i physcially feel since starting (its been 4 months) i think isshin ryu karate has had a profoundly positive effect on my phsycial health...a HUGE challenge...but..i also have a problem w/ my metabolism...phenyulketonuria..so this is nto without its challenges..but i wouldnt give it up for the world!

Just wanted to share that...

[lolpuppy]

Wing Chun? I have chronic fatigue right now, getting better though ^^
Is this really tiring or is tai chi better?

[KungFuGrrrl]

Hi Yoda, Kickchick!

Im Baaack!
I was in a car accident 3 yrs ago and am just now able to ride a bike and do slow exercises on land... I have been looking into another WC school too!

GOOOOOO Disabled MA"s!!

[KungFuGrrrl]

Wing Chun? I have chronic fatigue right now, getting better though ^^
Is this really tiring or is tai chi better?

I love both! I am only able to do modified anything so I say, try it and go for what inspires you!

[PASmith]

Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply from Yoda or Kickchick. :)

[oldgoat]

Been looking for a forum like this. I had 13 kids with cancer that I was training. Had to move and I'm going to start another program for kids with cancer.

[47MartialMan]

Been looking for a forum like this. I had 13 kids with cancer that I was training. Had to move and I'm going to start another program for kids with cancer.

Good for you....

Do you have to alter or create a different training syllabus?

[oldgoat]

Good for you....

Do you have to alter or create a different training syllabus?

Each kid is unique in that you have to be aware of their situation. Some have ports, some wear masks and are prone to infections, some of these kids are on chemo and may be tired or nauseated. Stamina and balance problems have to be monitered. Their parents(who are very grateful) will let you know of any problems. One common trait is that everyone of them is a perfect student, completely dedicated and looking ahead to their next technique or belt, never even considering the dark side.

One boy about ten, Isaac, had a prosthetic leg above his knee. He ran and kicked and was super competitive. He once told me in all sincerity that if he ever got shot in his new leg he would just look at the shooter and laugh.

My mainstream students had to be disciplined, told to pay attention, etc. Not the cancer kids. They're already disciplined, tough minded kids and a pleasure to teach. They teach you.

[oldgoat]

Good for you....

Do you have to alter or create a different training syllabus?

Some more than others, depends on their situation. You must be aware of ports, fatigued kids on chemo, balance issues etc. Get a rundown from their parents as to the type of disease, stage, location etc. One thing for sure you don't have to worry about discipline. These kids are dedicated. The lable of warrior is thrown around in our society to cheaply but these kids are the very definition of warrior.

I had these kids for two years and never had a parent complain or tell me how to teach. Never had a kid complain either, this is a slice of heaven to them compaired with what they are and have gone through.

Can't say the same for my mainsteram students.

[47MartialMan]

Some more than others, depends on their situation. You must be aware of ports, fatigued kids on chemo, balance issues etc. Get a rundown from their parents as to the type of disease, stage, location etc. One thing for sure you don't have to worry about discipline. These kids are dedicated. The lable of warrior is thrown around in our society to cheaply but these kids are the very definition of warrior.

I had these kids for two years and never had a parent complain or tell me how to teach. Never had a kid complain either, this is a slice of heaven to them compaired with what they are and have gone through.

Can't say the same for my mainsteram students.

I can relate to this.

The desire to have a normal health is often taken for granted and those who do not have the luxury live life to the fullest

[607leighm]

Really impressed with the idea of this forum!!

I would just like to know if people let their disability choose the style they practice??

and do some of you feel like idiots in a class session when not being able to join in all the techniques? How do you guys get around that?

[47MartialMan]

Really impressed with the idea of this forum!!

I would just like to know if people let their disability choose the style they practice??

and do some of you feel like idiots in a class session when not being able to join in all the techniques? How do you guys get around that?

That is the wonderful thing about martial arts. No matter the person disability, there is something out there ti practice-study.

[607leighm]

Thats what i have found good...and tried out a few different styles. Before my walking progressed to the stage i am at now i tried a range of standing styles...like boxing, karate, etc...since i have nearly lost the ability to walk i have been trying out grappling based styles like bjj and catch wrestling.

I have found instructors with a more varied background seem to fit me alot better...I was wondering if other people found this? Prity much that bit are taken from each style to cover weakness caused by my disbility in another area...

Do other people find this too be true?

[JuztMeee]

When you are differently enabled, the art one chooses may depend on what you are comfortable with already. Wing Chun & Tai Chi actually have a great deal in common, so if one already knows something about Wing Chun and finds that with new/unwanted changes in life they can no longer deal with the faster and more tiring drills of Wing Chun -- Tai Chi may be a way to re-focus skills you already have. For years I was fatigued (because of anemia) and had increasingly painful back problems. Tai Chi helped me regain strength while using some skills I already had. Further development and practice improved everything. I cold now probably go back to some of the hard style systems -- but have found that Tai Chi is varied enough to keep my interest (it also allows me to toss in some hard style techniques when sparing, which will really confuse an unsuspecting opponent).

Now that I'm teaching, I find that cross training and modifying actually helps my students -- all of them. The "normal" students are often surprised the first time they spar with a "disabled" student. They quickly find that differently enabled students adjust and shift their methods while sparing or participating in push-hands (Sticky-Hands in Wing Chun). Change is good. I do not change the curriculum. I change the technique - if needed - and have often seen normal students adopt ideas from the disabled. If it works and it fits the sparing rules you work under -- do it.
Bill

[47MartialMan]

When you are differently enabled, the art one chooses may depend on what you are comfortable with already. Wing Chun & Tai Chi actually have a great deal in common, so if one already knows something about Wing Chun and finds that with new/unwanted changes in life they can no longer deal with the faster and more tiring drills of Wing Chun -- Tai Chi may be a way to re-focus skills you already have. For years I was fatigued (because of anemia) and had increasingly painful back problems. Tai Chi helped me regain strength while using some skills I already had. Further development and practice improved everything. I cold now probably go back to some of the hard style systems -- but have found that Tai Chi is varied enough to keep my interest (it also allows me to toss in some hard style techniques when sparing, which will really confuse an unsuspecting opponent).

Now that I'm teaching, I find that cross training and modifying actually helps my students -- all of them. The "normal" students are often surprised the first time they spar with a "disabled" student. They quickly find that differently enabled students adjust and shift their methods while sparing or participating in push-hands (Sticky-Hands in Wing Chun). Change is good. I do not change the curriculum. I change the technique - if needed - and have often seen normal students adopt ideas from the disabled. If it works and it fits the sparing rules you work under -- do it.
Bill

Good post...but..

"Sticky-Hands"?

[Instructor_Jon]

I just discovered this thread so if I am covering old ground I apologize. I think the wrist manipulations in Hapkido would be particularly effective for a wheelchair bound person. I have nobody currently to try it with but would love to give it a go.

All my students are able bodied currently though a couple are getting a bit older as am I. But if anybody with a disability wants to learn Hapkido I am here for you!

[mr-zee]

*