Katas

[Light123]

Come August 9, 2008...

i have been gone and am back again. During the period of time I was away, I sought, with ever increasing hunger, a place in which to learn martial arts. First, I registered for JKD at my college, but it lasted only half a semester. A small snack. And then I registered for Hapkido i and II; both also half semesters at my college and yet another small snack, but enough to earn my first rank as a yellow belt.

After that, I learned of the existence of Minton's Black Belt Academy. They only offered Korean TKD. I went there for a private evaluation. I broke my first board which was so easy, yet so danged fun.

I seriously considered enrolling there. But considering the disadvantage, I didn't.

So then, I found out about six or seven months ago that a guy at my church is a sensei. A trustworthy one.

God knew my heart!

I enrolled in his classes. I've made great progress, recently earned my high yellow belt, and been offered to participate in my first martial arts tournament, the Douglas Grose Memorial, to be held on August 9, 2008.

i'll be doing forms, weapons, breaking...

The thing is getting into the turns in the katas. I've been learning by sitting in a chair (not a wheelchair), as I can't stand without my walker or a wall. With my walker, my arms are full; with a wall you can't fully pull your elbows back or effectively use the bo. A cane, for me, is very unstable.

So what I'm looking for is a way to properly do the turns. Right now, I'm looking for swivel seats. :D or something to lean back against.

Perhaps, there's an idea around here?

[BentMonk]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're learning your forms seated, and you want to perform them standing. Given your description of your circumstances I do not see how this will work, unless you have a walker with wheels and brakes. Are you able to walk/turn with the walker and stand independently behind it long enough to perform the movements in the form? If so that may be an option. If not, I recommend performing seated. You will be more comfortable and likely perform better. I am curious. You're learning your forms seated. Are you being taught how to apply them while you're standing? I don't know enough about your personal goals in training. Are you doing MA for the exercise, self defense, or both. If you're learning for self defense and I were your instructor, we would begin with you learning what to do after you get knocked down. That would involve training take downs and submissions. I feel that it's practical to train for the worst case scenario and add other techniques to prevent the worst from happening. Since the walker is required for you to be mobile, I would teach you Chin Na techniques that you could apply with one hand. I would design a conditioning routine that would increase your upper body strength. I would then design a conditioning routine that would strengthen your legs. This would hopefully reduce your dependence on the walker. I'm sure this is more info than you asked for. I hope I've helped a little. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. Keep us updated on how the tournament goes. Best of luck and happy training.

[Fish Of Doom]

hey there!. shame no one answered till now, but we'll try now that bentmonk raised the thread. just to have a bit of data, what exactly is your disability? that way we might know of a specific way to counter it so that you can train as best as you can.:)

[Light123]

To BentMonk:
Um...What i was saying is i'm learning from a stationary seat that doesn't move. I've got myself stuck doing the turns in the katas. I'm looking for a way to do them more...smoothly. Seated, yes. I only have armless swivel seats in mind right now. But...not sure.

To FoD:
KMy disability is neurodegenerative. But I'm able to do a lot. I'll tell you later . I gottarun

[BentMonk]

If you're going to do the form seated and you want to work in the turns then you're correct, the easiest way for it to work is by using a chair or stool that swivels. If you don't have one that will accommodate your needs, I'd check Staples, Office Depot, or some other office supply store. There are many different types of chairs and stools. You'll probably find more options looking online rather than going to a local store. I'm guessing you don't want to discuss the other things I mentioned. I hope I helped and did not offend. Best of luck to you.

[Light123]

No offense was taken. i was kind of in a rush. ;)

So...um...what were the "other things" again? :scratch: iguess I'll look.

But yeah, you did help. I just wasn't sure, because it isn't just the forms , but also sparring. I'm told I can't spar with a person because I'm not standing. (that's not my sensei's rule, I don't know whose.) So I'vejust been beating up a bunch of padding. It doesn't seem fair, even to my sensei. So...

[Light123]

If I'm understanding you correctly, you're learning your forms seated, and you want to perform them standing. Given your description of your circumstances I do not see how this will work, unless you have a walker with wheels and brakes. Are you able to walk/turn with the walker and stand independently behind it long enough to perform the movements in the form? If so that may be an option. If not, I recommend performing seated. You will be more comfortable and likely perform better. I am curious. You're learning your forms seated. Are you being taught how to apply them while you're standing? I don't know enough about your personal goals in training. Are you doing MA for the exercise, self defense, or both. If you're learning for self defense and I were your instructor, we would begin with you learning what to do after you get knocked down. That would involve training take downs and submissions. I feel that it's practical to train for the worst case scenario and add other techniques to prevent the worst from happening. Since the walker is required for you to be mobile, I would teach you Chin Na techniques that you could apply with one hand. I would design a conditioning routine that would increase your upper body strength. I would then design a conditioning routine that would strengthen your legs. This would hopefully reduce your dependence on the walker. I'm sure this is more info than you asked for. I hope I've helped a little. Let me know if I can be of further assistance. Keep us updated on how the tournament goes. Best of luck and happy training.

it would be difficult to do it while i'm on my "beat up" walker. The arms hld me up at like...chest level. (just the arms, but not THAT high. :P) I'm definitely more comfortable performing seated. It is just like doing it standing in some ways. But I know that in real situations, I won't have a chair ready allll the time. i can easily be knocked into a ditch. (;D). I've been shown to breakfall, forward and backward, but not from walker.

Ohhh, I forgot to mention i am practicing Isshinryu.

[BentMonk]

Do you feel that you are able to realistically apply the techniques you are learning? Are you doing any conditioning work to improve your over all strength level? I realize you're a novice in your current style, but are you practicing what you've learned in real world situations with a resisting opponent? If you're not yet, will you be at some point in your training? I ask because IMO a martial arts class is meant to teach any student that trains how to defend themselves. There are places where it's just about a good workout, they're called gyms. I'm not trying to bash what you're doing. I'm just curious. I've seen quite a few people with disabilities seek martial art instruction only to be shown frivolous movements with no real purpose. I'm not saying this is what's going on with you, just stating what I've seen. I don't think these instructors were intentionally misleading. I just think that they did not really know how to adapt their techniques, but didn't want to seem cold by turning students away. While this attitude seems kind, I find it dangerous because it could leave someone with a false sense of confidence that could get them hurt or worse. What goals have you set for yourself in your training? What is your primary motivation for training? Again, just curious and looking for good discussion on adapting techniques. Peace :)

[Light123]

I train because it is pleasure. Maybe not just pleasure, but hope. hope for different things.

It is my instructors first time working with a disabled person. He offered me the lessons.

My previous class was practicing striking with balloons t see if I was doingthem right. I'm not the only one that used balloons, but the able bodied people have to do it too.

[BentMonk]

I train because it is pleasure. Maybe not just pleasure, but hope. hope for different things.

It is my instructors first time working with a disabled person. He offered me the lessons.

My previous class was practicing striking with balloons t see if I was doingthem right. I'm not the only one that used balloons, but the able bodied people have to do it too.

I agree. Training is a true pleasure. Many of my students have no interest in sparring or pressure testing what I teach them. They still participate in the same strength and conditioning routines as their classmates who do. I also make sure that they know how to apply the techniques they learn. I drill the applications more with those who enjoy sparring and are interested in competition. I do my best to give my students what they ask for and more. If they want to learn to defend themselves I'll teach them how. Along the way they'll become stronger physically, mentally, and spiritually. If someone wants to use qigong and BWE to improve their health and fitness I'll train them. Along the way they'll learn how to defend themselves. :)

[Light123]

Have you ever with a seated person that has good use of the legs? If so how do they spar?

I have interest in all areas of martial arts. And seaking ofreality, I forgot to mention my sensei does ask me the meaning of techniques. That is, how they can be used. Does that match your definition of "realistically applying techniques"?

[zacht]

the last post you said you had good use of the legs ,so im just guessing the dissability is in your back. If it is your back thats the problem maybe you could get something you strap to yourself to support you back like something hard and straight yet wont be completely uncomfortable to wear.

[Light123]

It is more of a balance disability. Though, it is a neurological disorder. I keep getting the idea of strapping nmyself to something upright so I am standing against it. Like a puppet on a stick. ;)

[BentMonk]

Have you ever with a seated person that has good use of the legs? If so how do they spar?

I have interest in all areas of martial arts. And seaking ofreality, I forgot to mention my sensei does ask me the meaning of techniques. That is, how they can be used. Does that match your definition of "realistically applying techniques"?

I have worked with one young man that was in a wheelchair, but had some use of one leg. His kicks were never strong enough to do more than pop a knee or bark a shin well enough to divert an attacker's attention from an incoming punch or joint lock. I have not worked with him in some time. The techniques I mentioned were the direction we were taking his training. He has since moved out of state. I do not know if he continued his training or not. This happens a lot in my field. I have had many short term students. It's a bummer, but at least everybody seems to have fun and gain something useful while they're here. :)

From your explanation of your disability, I recommend that you consider using a wheelchair. If balance is a problem but your legs are strong and mobile, you could develop a wide variety of techniques, especially since you've said that your hands and arms work well. If you are learning your techniques seated, it seems only logical that you apply them while seated. I am not meaning to imply that you should abandon walking in favor of a wheelchair. It is possible that your training will enable you to overcome your balance issues. In the mean time, sit down and kick some butt. :)

It's good that your teacher has you thinking about applications for your techniques. What I mean by "realistically applying techniques" is: Do you drill the techniques against someone who is actively and enthusiastically trying to prevent you from executing the techniques? It is also important to incorporate strength training, flexibility training, and cardiovascular training so that you will be physically able to apply your techniques in real life if the need ever arises. I know that there are a million ways besides self defense that MA helps people improve their lives, but IMO a MA that does not enable it's students to defend themselves and their loved ones is not a MA it's just a workout. Self defense doesn't have to be the primary focus of MA, but it should be a natural byproduct.

[Light123]

There's something to consider! But I hate wheelchairs. :P

In real life, if I could pull off a few side, round, and mule kicks before my opponent knocks me over, or knocks me over straightaway. In this kind of s.ituation -- no chair, no walker -- I'm forced to defend myself on my knees (sitting on my feet) or on my butt. In this position, my attacker can do a number of things:

Kick my head
Kick my face
Jump on me
Pee on me
etc...

[Fish Of Doom]

might i suggest clinch tactics? kata bunkai can be analyzed and the concepts of each move applied to other situations with varying degrees of effectiveness. so if you work out how X move can be used at close range, you can kick to the knee, grab and pound away. and if you end up on your knees, control the kicking leg and punch to the groin(or grab and twist).

[BentMonk]

might i suggest clinch tactics? kata bunkai can be analyzed and the concepts of each move applied to other situations with varying degrees of effectiveness. so if you work out how X move can be used at close range, you can kick to the knee, grab and pound away. and if you end up on your knees, control the kicking leg and punch to the groin(or grab and twist).

TT4-I think this is a good idea also. One of IsshinRyu's strengths is in quarter throws and locks. Talk with your instructor. I think these could be adapted well to help you accomplish your sparring and self defense goals. You could end up being a hell of a ground fighter. There are plenty of tournament opportunities for this style of fighting. I understand your attitude concerning a wheelchair, but I think that is your best option for a Kata competition. I like the way you think FOD.

[Fish Of Doom]

well, if his problem lies on his balance and keeping his feet, what's the best way of not falling down? well, grab of course :p

[BentMonk]

well, if his problem lies on his balance and keeping his feet, what's the best way of not falling down? well, grab of course :p

I have questionable balance as well. Grabbing my opponent is my entry technique of choice. The grab often leads to effective sacrifice throws or full body take downs. This does not work well if my opponent has a strong base and or good sprawl skills. Another unpleasant fact of my fighting life is that in order to reach zero distance to accomplish said grabs and take downs, I must eat a few punches or kicks. TT4 I think you may find yourself in similar circumstances. I plan on posting some video of my training and sparring in the very near future. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, we'll see.

[Light123]

My non-MAist cousin can't even hold me down for five seconds when we get rough on the ground. She might be non-MAist but she uses her tickly fingers against me, which is challenge enough. But even with that I'm still slippery. So aren't I already a heck of a ground fighter? :D

The thing is, grabs, sweeps and takedowns are not are not allowed at the tournament. Well, I dont use my walker to spar.

[BentMonk]

The thing is, grabs, sweeps and takedowns are not are not allowed at the tournament. Well, I dont use my walker to spar.

One of my early tournament experiences had rules similar to this. Basically the only valid target was your opponent's torso. I was warned for throwing a punch to my opponent's head, despite the fact that there was no contact what so ever. After this my opponent proceeded to cross his arms over his chest, and start kicking at me repeatedly with the same leg, balancing himself on the other. I stayed just outside his range, timed his kicks, stepped in, caught his ankle, and shoved my hand skyward, dumping my opponent on his pride. I was disqualified for sweeping a supporting leg. I smiled, sat down, and decided from then on to only compete in tournaments with rules that allowed for actual martial art competition to take place. Light or no head contact (thrown shots allowed), medium to heavy body contact, sweeps and take downs allowed, no knee or joint attacks, point and non-stop divisions. You don't have to fight UFC style to have a little bit of friendly competition. :cool:

[Light123]

Do you have any suggestions for me to practice sparring?

Did i mention I am visually impaired?

[BentMonk]

Do you have any suggestions for me to practice sparring?

Did i mention I am visually impaired?

TT4- The more you tell me about your circumstances, the more I feel that you need to focus on taking it to the ground. IsshinRyu uses a lot of throws and locks from what I've seen. I'm sure you could spar well this way. As to performing kata, I think a rolling stool, similar to the ones doctors use in exam rooms may give you the mobility and turning capabilities you're looking for.

[Light123]

How do you know about isshinryu?

[BentMonk]

How do you know about isshinryu?

I've been a martial arts enthusiast for most of my life. I read a lot. I have friends who have studied various styles. Google is my friend. I am far from being an expert, but I do consider myself quite knowledgeable about martial arts. I always try to keep my mind open and my cup empty. :)

[Light123]

Ah, Bruce Lee philosophy. What do you teach?

hey! today I tried something new. my buddy, who doesn't study MA, was holding me up from behind and i did my kata like that (standing) WITH the turns. Wat do you make of that?

[BentMonk]

Ah, Bruce Lee philosophy. What do you teach?

hey! today I tried something new. my buddy, who doesn't study MA, was holding me up from behind and i did my kata like that (standing) WITH the turns. Wat do you make of that?

Bruce, The Tao, Yoda :p

Here's some info on where and how I train: www.iron-body.com

Here's a link to me: www.bentmonk.com

I teach Shaolin Adapted Realistic Techniques...Shaolin A.R.Ts for short. This is a combination of martial, chi kung, and fitness training that I can use to tailor my student's training to their individual goals. For example, I currently have a student with mild cognitive impairment, slight mobility and dexterity issues, and degenerating vision. He is one of my most motivated students. He trains hard. One of his goals is to use his training in competition. Due to his circumstances we decided that he would train for a grappling only event. I do not train BJJ, but I have a friend who is an amature MMA fighter and is helping with his training.

It's cool that your buddy was willing to help you out, but wouldn't it be cooler if you did your own thing under your own power?

[Light123]

I have power? You mean I can throw fireballs? :D

Welllll, um...i don't know...What am i missing? :confused:

[BentMonk]

I have power? You mean I can throw fireballs? :D

Welllll, um...i don't know...What am i missing? :confused:

It's Chi, not fire. :p

I meant that it was cool of your friend to hold you up so that you could do your Kata, but I don't know how this could help you with your goals. When adapting something as complex as the martial arts, it is not important that everyone do their techniques the same. What matters is that every one's techniques are effective.

[Light123]

I'm not sure what my goals are or if I even have any in MAs. It just seems like pleasure. Butsometimes i do wish i could get in a real fight at least once in my life but i know that must be avoided. have you been attacked before?

[BentMonk]

Training for the pleasure of training is great. I have not been attacked, I did once try to help a friend who was in trouble. I ended up in a two on one situation. I got some bumps and bruises. It could have been worse, but they were more interested in my friend. I have been into all things MA since I was a kid and saw Kung Fu on tv. I decided to train as a way to lose some weight and find a fun alternative to traditional physical therapy. I decided that since I would be studying MA instead of just working out, I wanted my techniques to work and work well if I ever needed to help myself or a friend again. As long as you are enjoying what you are doing and find value in it, that's all that matters. Many of my most dedicated and successful students have no wish to spar or fight at all. I've just seen a few disabled people who went to a MA school looking for self defense and were shown ineffective techniques for their individual circumstances. Given my personal circumstances and experiences, I thought I might be able to help. :D

[Light123]

I had a course in self defense last semester. I'm not sure how effective the techniques are. I wasdoing them from the ground. The only technique against a standing opponent I wasshown is a takedown where I grab the heel with one hand, pull, and push on the area above the knee with your forearm. I don't think it works. I did it on a resisting friend and he can stick his other leg back to keep his balance.

[BentMonk]

I had a course in self defense last semester. I'm not sure how effective the techniques are. I wasdoing them from the ground. The only technique against a standing opponent I wasshown is a takedown where I grab the heel with one hand, pull, and push on the area above the knee with your forearm. I don't think it works. I did it on a resisting friend and he can stick his other leg back to keep his balance.

I see what they were going for in theory, but it feels like they made it up on the fly without testing it themselves. I can't comment objectively on what techniques I feel may work for you, since I can't actually see you.

As for myself, my balance is weak. I have a strong upper body. I train to make my punches as powerful as possible. In a real situation I will get one maybe two shots in before my opponent retaliates. I have to make sure that my shots are hard enough to stun or knock out my opponent. Because I lack a solid base it is very difficult for me to take down or throw an opponent. They have to be stunned, preoccupied with my hands, or seriously off balance for me to execute a solid take down and finish. I still have a long way to go. I was training with my MMA body a while ago and hit him squarely in the face with a nice three punch combination. Instead of being stunned, as I went for the take down, he shook off the shots, dropped to one knee and planted a stiff right jab into my solar plexus. Air left the bod, I hit the deck, Wes said, "Nice combo dude.", and helped me up.

I also use my brain. I don't go to places where trouble may be. I rarely if ever travel alone. I don't start trouble. I am considering getting a conceal/carry permit. I love to spar and I love to spar hard, but on the street I'm going to worry a lot more about staying alive than I am about how much like Jet Li I look. :D

[Light123]

I'm pretty sure they made it up.

I've wanted to learn MA ever since i was a kid. Isshinryu is my first real MA. My dad was a 5th or 6th degree black belt in FMA and was very dangerous. Someone told me how a bunch of people were making fun of him and a guy was trying to take my dad's gun. The situation was making my dad mad, so he said to the guy who was trying take his gun "Try it again." so the guy started to reach for his gun, but with the speed of lightning dad fired his finger at the guy and th nextthing you knew the guy was out cold on the ground with his arm still out.

My dadsaid I should start FMA because i am part Filipino. But there are no FMA here that I know of. My dad wouldve taught me if he had the tim, but he's gone now. He is a fallen hero to my state.

By the way, I have relatives in Louisville. ;)

[BentMonk]

I'm pretty sure they made it up.

I've wanted to learn MA ever since i was a kid. Isshinryu is my first real MA. My dad was a 5th or 6th degree black belt in FMA and was very dangerous. Someone told me how a bunch of people were making fun of him and a guy was trying to take my dad's gun. The situation was making my dad mad, so he said to the guy who was trying take his gun "Try it again." so the guy started to reach for his gun, but with the speed of lightning dad fired his finger at the guy and th nextthing you knew the guy was out cold on the ground with his arm still out.

My dadsaid I should start FMA because i am part Filipino. But there are no FMA here that I know of. My dad wouldve taught me if he had the tim, but he's gone now. He is a fallen hero to my state.

By the way, I have relatives in Louisville. ;)

It sounds like your Dad was one tough customer. FMA is quite effective. The knife and stick work is awesome. If you're ever going to be in town, let me know. We could hang, talk training, work out. I'll do the same if I'm going to roll up your way.

[Riq P]

Hi, Would you be able to perform your katas while in water? Wading chest deep in a pool would perhaps overcome your balance problem and allow you to do the turns.
If this works you could also perform some sparring while in water, lifesavers and lifeguards are trained to do releases etc in water, I've tried it it's fun.

[BentMonk]

Hi, Would you be able to perform your katas while in water? Wading chest deep in a pool would perhaps overcome your balance problem and allow you to do the turns.
If this works you could also perform some sparring while in water, lifesavers and lifeguards are trained to do releases etc in water, I've tried it it's fun.

Good idea. Zero impact on the joints and tendons, no harm if you fall. It will also give you some idea of where your center of gravity is and how to be more stable when you're out of the pool. Nice one RP.

[Light123]

It sounds like your Dad was one tough customer. FMA is quite effective. The knife and stick work is awesome. If you're ever going to be in town, let me know. We could hang, talk training, work out. I'll do the same if I'm going to roll up your way.My dad WAS a tough customer. His favorite thing was pressure points. he taught most of my family.

It wouldnt be too much of a problem if you were rolling here. But in Louisville, it would probably be difficult. But how do I know you're not a...thing? (no offense meant.) ;)

Hi, Would you be able to perform your katas while in water? Wading chest deep in a pool would perhaps overcome your balance problem and allow you to do the turns.
If this works you could also perform some sparring while in water, lifesavers and lifeguards are trained to do releases etc in water, I've tried it it's fun.
I can stand up in water! Yeah, if i start falling I get lost (visually) though. I sould try that next time i'm in a pool.