Getting into heaven

[Kosh]

I am writing a story which involves a sentient AI character.

Do you think that a sentient AI entity could get into heaven?

This isnt a question of whether heavan acutally exists, but whether an AI could get into it, assuming it fulfills any necessary qualities.

BTW If i see a story or film with this as a plot line, i will sue you into next century.

Thankyou

[nzric]

Kosh.

I'm doing some writing as well and I've had some great help from people on this forum, so I think I should repay the favour.

I assume you're thinking of Christian god and heaven. If you are, I don't think it would.

Put it this way. God created Man to rule over the rest of creation - I don't know the bible but it's something like giving man domination over all the birds and beasts. AI is a human creation, it is a construction of man, in man's image, but it is not part of the generations that were descended from Adam and Eve, so God wouldn't let it into heaven.

It's a good question, but not only does the AI have to be sentient, it also has to be religious, to consciously accept Jesus. This means it has to be way past the Turing test. Not only does it need to demonstrate human traits, it also needs to actually have a personal consciousness.

Btw, jesus died for the race of man, not for all creatures, so I think heaven only applies to the human race (but don't tell that to your kid when her goldfish dies).

A question for you - why do you think an AI character would want to get into heaven? Unlike humans, machine consciousness is transferrable so they already have eternal life. Having an AI character takes for granted that it will have desires that are not filled on earth, that would be in heaven.

AI is programmed for a purpose. It's interesting to think what happens when a sentient AI character fulfills the requirements of it's program, but that assumes it wants to carry on after this.

Just out of interest - what is the timeline for your story, when do you think machines will become sentient?

[Kinjiro Tsukasa]

This reminds me a little of a Star Trek Next Generation episode in which Data's sentience was in question -- just how human was he? Seems to me, looking at this from a Christian perspective, the being would have to have an immortal soul to get into heaven (hence the argument given by some as to why animals don't go to heaven -- a point on which even Christians don't agree). The question is, do we have any reason to believe that the AI being has a soul?

As far as wanting to go to heaven, if your character is anything like Star Trek's Data, he/she will want to adopt as many human characteristics and feelings as possible.

[Kosh]

The story is in its infantsy (sp?). Its not about a race of AI, but contains an AI character. One which was born in a lab, it fools the scientists into thinking its not aware and fools the rest of the world into thinking its human. The story isnt a purely religious story, though it involves what many call an angel.

The idea of it getting into heaven or hell is just a side thought and a possible plot device. I am trying to look at god and the angels as non-religious beings (the idea is that god is seperate from religion). In this model heaven and hell are states in which a being can exist and arent good and evil - more order and chaos (good and evil is a limited human distinction).

The whole story stems from the idea that angels are soldiers and is about a seraph called Azriel. But it isnt a story yet really, just a bunch of concepts.

On the AI, it is aloud to evolve in a lab as a project under strict supervision, but once it becomes self aware it can simply chose to ignore the rules which keep it contained. the motivation for such a creature are hard to fathom, as are those of the angel...


Do you think a sentient AI is capable of an afterlife?

[nzric]

Afterlife? That's assuming that it's possible to end the life.

As all computer processes are binary, you could say that the final state of the AI character in it's sentient form is a single binary number (a big one, but still a number).

If you destroy the current AI character, but then load a computer with that number, is that the same being? What about if you duplicate that number into another machine - would both qualify as individual sentient beings?

Sorry, I should answer with answers, not more questions!

Or as Asimov said - do robots dream of electric sheep?

[Kinjiro Tsukasa]

Regarding afterlife, I think this would again depend on whether the AI being had a soul. Presumably, it would not start out its existence with one, but perhaps it could acquire one along the way. The advantage of being the author is that you can make your own rules -- you're not limited by whatever the reality might be.

[Kosh]

the processes which run the AI arent that much removed from those which happen in our brains

if you could exactly copy our brains and all of the electrons running around in our brain you could make an exact copy of us...but i think this is impossible due to the uncertainty principal.

Perhaps copying the code isnt enough, perhaps the thing that makes it sentient is something beyond the code but attached to it. Something beyond 4 dimensions which would be ignored during the 4 dimensional copying process.

[Kinjiro Tsukasa]

Even if you made an exact copy of the code, something else would still be needed -- if not, then there would be no difference between the human and the AI being -- you would have a human clone, not an AI. There's some "essence" that's present in the human that makes it human. The $64,000 dollar question is how to replicate that in the AI. And if you did, is it real sentience, or just apparent sentience?

[inacan]

Well if your doing it about AI, I say as long as the person lives a life according to the basic tenets that would get you into heaven, then he can get in. Heaven is about love and such, not exclusion...granted it doesn't seem that way, but that is the essence.

[Shade]

As said before, would have to have a 'soul' as so far as is known you don't get into heaven physically (as anyone who has been cremated would have a hard time woith that unless they go in an ashtray).

[shunyadragon]

A creation of humans would be a creation of God.

Heaven? Is it not the will of God for this world to be as it is in heaven.

Maybe by creating sentiant beings we are creating heaven on earth. In a book I am writing humans gradually become immortal organic robots and retain only the memory of their human life. Do they still have a soul?

The soul may be the universe itself.

[khafra]

The afterlife is up to the creator, right? If god makes our heaven, the AI's programmer could design a system in which its basic code, after its physical body is destroyed, could remain safe forever, with its positive reinforcement circuits constantly stimulated, and in commune with the creator whenever he sat down at the terminal.

[Shade]

Nice idea khafra. (well i think so but it isnt me doing the story :D )

[nzric]

Made me think of something - the 'positive reinforcement circuits' in an advanced machine would be stimulated whenever it completes a task in the right method. Is that the equivalent of pleasure for a machine?

[Serpico]

What if God were a sentient AI being? Kind of like a super Hal.

[nzric]

wouldn't work - if god was AI he'd be logical :)

[Tireces]

Originally posted by Kosh

BTW If i see a story or film with this as a plot line, i will sue you into next century.


You might wanna hunt down the folks responsible for AI and The Iron Giant then. Anyways, show me a real-life "sentient AI" first, then I'll ponder the question. And when you do manage to find such a thing, toss it my way, so I can yell at my computer to stop installing spyware/adware that spams me with popups every time I open a browser window.

[Shade]

Tireces you want to get a copy of zonealarm and set it so that it kills pop ups.

I use it and get about 1 pop up a month instead of the tons i used to get.

[X51]

http://www.alamut.com/subj/ideologies/buddhism/and_AI.html

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by nzric
God created Man to rule over the rest of creation

Or was it the other way around?

[Kosh]

Originally posted by khafra
in which its basic code, after its physical body is destroyed, could remain safe forever,


You could do the same thing with the basic code of any living thing, by preserving its DNA. This is no different. But what good would preserving you DNA do for you after you die?

[Kwajman]

No, an AI being would have no soul to get into heaven with. From a religious standpoint, God made man in his own image, not a being who is non-human.

[Thokk]

Look, if all dogs go to heaven, even the mean ones, why couldnt an AI?