Is it a good idea to use boxing in a streetfight?

[crovax612]

Note: I'm not trying to diss boxing or anything. I love doing boxing and in my opinion it's a great,quick and easy way to learn some self defense and get/stay in shape. Just looking for some opinions from boxers on this.

I was talking to my Muay Thai teacher today after class and I asked him about what techniques would be most effective in case I ever got into a streetfight. He told me that low thai kicks, knees and elbows would be my ideal weapons. This made me raise the question about using punches in a streetfight and he said...

"You could do that, but I would advise against it. most people don't have big, tough hands and they'll most likely really damage or even break your hand. Many boxers are reluctant to use their hands in a streetfight because they're worth money, so they can't risk breaking them.That was one of the main reasons boxing gloves were invented, so leave the punching in the ring."

I then brought up an interview I had read with Bas Rutten commenting on open hand strikes being preferable to punches in (I think) Pancrase matches. My teacher agreed, and then proceeded to teach me such strikes.

Anyway, what I'm wondering what you guys (boxers, or anyone else who may have used punches in a fight.) think about this. Would you guys/girls feel comfortable using pucnhes in a streetfight? have you ever damaged your hand pretty bad because of it? Just looking to see what boxers think about this.

[Trent Tiemeyer]

I punch all the time. It's second nature.

[Hakko-Ryu]

in an altercation outside of your training i say use everything you can...elbows, headbutts, open palm, fist...your pain tolerance is gonna jump so high you probably wont even feel a carpal bone break.

[Yan]

Punches, kicks, knees to the groin, elbows to the face, eye-gouging, fishhooking, ball-grabbing, hair pulling, headbutts, strangles, teeth... the list is endless. In streetfighting there are no rules. Use any weapon availible to you, whether part of your body or external (such as a brick lying about), that's the only way to win.

I find that grabbing someone's nose with your teeth is the easiest, most damaging and hard to evade streetfighting move out there.

[shotokanwarrior]

you say boxers are reluctant to use their hands in a street fight in case they damage 'em - why can't they condition them like other martial artists do?

[quartermaster]

western boxing just dont have all the same kinds of methods as other martial arts, thats why. plus it's mostly based on "scientific fact" and not on stuff that obviously works but for unknown reasons.

apologies for any mistakes and a bad tone i cant quite erradicate from the point im trying to make

[Trent Tiemeyer]

LOL. Boxers have no issues with streetfighting. Broken hands are the exception, not the rule. Boxers have a cultivated killer instinct, and hit HARD. If every boxer that got in a fight broke his hands, we wouldn't have many boxers about.

Regular martial artists can break their hand as easily as any boxer. Your training methodologys don't save you from physics and your own bone structure. You can throw the cleanest, most technically perfect punch in the world, that won't save you if you hit the wrong part of your opponent's head.

[47Ronin]

I use lots of boxing techniques in fights and kicks only if I can get a sure shot.

Basic thing is- Use anyway you can to win....

[Skinneh]

So where do you punch if you dont want to break your hand ? ?:D

[Cain]

I am with Trent most of the time punches are all you will need to down your opponent ;)

Boxers are a bunch of tough nuts even with my groin kicks I'd be seeing the stars when Tyson who obviously has superior footwork and more power in his punch than I'd ever have.

|Cain|

[littlebird]

If your life is at risk, you are not thinking about hurting your hands. You can augment your fists easily with a roll of coins or a "short stick" -yawara- as well.

Do you think it is too dangerous to use a back fist as well? Geez!

Usually a hand is hurt if it is not conditioned on a bag so that the wrist won't hold the form. Even simple tight leather gloves will help.

Now am I saying not to kick, or not to use various elements of your body on the attack? NO. I am just saying that boxing (or really here) striking with your fist can be your first line of defense.
Imagine places where it would be hard to be a whirling dervish and deliver roundhouse kicks to the head. How about a train, subway, tram, airplane, crowd or in the snow or ice? or a stair or hall way.

Sure elbows are well and good as is a forearm or knee, or even the head. But the fist can be delivered from futher away, quicker, at greater angles and shouldn't be avoided.

Likewise sometimes it is better not to use MARTIAL ARTS. You might have a small brawl and if you "sock" the guy, it will go better with the local authorities than if you looked like a manical Bruce Lee with a killer mentality and broke the guys jaw with a kick. Break it with a fist and it is the luck of the fight. Break it with the kick and it is perhaps a "deadly assault."

littlebird

[47Ronin]

Good post LB, I am gonna agree with you on it.

[Trent Tiemeyer]

Skinny, I always aim for the face, not the head.

[peacfulwarrior]

One thing that comes to mind for me is that if your boxing in the street that means your going head to head with your opponent. Going head to head means it will come down to skill and personally i don't think that is a safeway to handle a confrontation. Boxing is the one fighting system that is best used when both fighters are equal in height and weight and in the street it is unlikely that you will be of similar ht and wt.










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[Trent Tiemeyer]

If it doesn't come down to skill, why train at all?

[peacfulwarrior]

Skill in the ring is one thing but skill on the street is another. For the most part most of the styles of martial arts don't train you so that you go in the street and match your skill with an enemy. You are trained to defend yourself even when there is a disadvantage of ht and wt.











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[Trent Tiemeyer]

Boxing is not just standing and going toe-to-toe. Footwork and timing definitely come into play on the street, and you would be hard pressed to beat boxing in this department.

[Kof_Andy]

As a boxer I can explain a bit. Most boxer dont ever practice bare knunkle boxing, or drill bare knunkle in bags to get the condition they need. The first thing they do in gym, they put on there boxing gloves. Is F@3king halerious when I see boxer at my gym break there hands punching someone with a boxing glove on...... A lot of time people just ask me why I punch bare knunkle, I told them and they just laugh, and shoke there head. LoL I'm not the one that break my hand punching someone.

[Kwajman]

Uhhhhhhhhhhh, no....

[Kwan Jang]

-Boxing is a very simple, yet effective system if YOU work it well. If you can control the set-point and use timing and distancing, you could use it to control most fights against most opponents. Obviously as a sport, it is not a complete system, but all fighting arts or sports DO work, if YOU work them well enough. It's really when you face someone who takes you out of your element that you find where the weaknesses are. Most of the time, a trained fighter is not going to let an untrained attacker/opponent do that to them.
-As far as punching to the head, when the little bones in the hand meet the big bones of the skull, the smaller bones usually get the worst of it. Unless you have really trained yourself well on striking (under adrenalyzed conditions) properly. Even then it can go wrong for you. I recommend for beginners to punch to the body and use open hand strikes and elbows to the head. As they advance proceed w/ face punches at your own risk.

[Knight_Errant]

A few small points:
Boxing is a martial art- and one with a particularly fine standard of athleticism amongst its practitioners at that.

There is a huge amount of skill involved, and all of it will help you if you have a real fight.-as 1onefighting says, footwork and timing etc. are particular concerns for most boxers

The intellectual side of boxing is also good. Boxers are coached individually according to their needs and there is, from what I've seen, a fine tradition of open discussion in the sport.

It's inevitable that in a fight, you will use what you have learned, whether in boxing or anywhere else.

[TheMachine]

my cousin who has studied several arts has time and again said that you will primarily use your fists when you get into a streetfight. use whatever you can but knowing how to box is a big advantage

[walmart stocker]

knowing how to punch in a street fight is very useful...but remember 80 percent of street fights go to the ground....

[YODA]

Originally posted by walmart stocker
knowing how to punch in a street fight is very useful...but remember 80 percent of street fights go to the ground....


80? I thought it was 90? Or was it 95? 75 maybe?

[Guerilla Fists]

It ain't no joke. I got a spiral fracture on my rightmost knuckls on my hand. The metacarpal bones were completely seperated on my ring and pinky finger. Incidentaly this kind of break is known as the "Boxer's fracture" because it happens to boxers and most often when throwing an unsupported punch in a fight.
In my instance I connected deep on impact but one of my adversaries saw it coming at the last minute and ducked his head down. I connected on the back of his skull and knocked him out (fortunately) but broke both my knuckles. I had to use kicks, my left punches, and some impromptu pirate style grappling (pirate style because of my incapable limb).
Since I started Kung Fu though I have learned a lot more about bone alignment and body placement and I haven't had the problem since.

[walmart stocker]

yoda i guess you have never been in a fight...

[binski20]

Not the 200% of fights go to the ground line again.
Everyone uses this line as grounds to build up grappling arts, which are effective of course. But what about learning to NOT go to the ground??????? Wow, what a concept, this guy wants to take me down, maybe I will try to NOT go down.

Little sarcastic, but let's think about it. Like I said, grappling is effective for what it does, but so is trying to not go to the ground. Using going to the ground as an excuse to build up a grappling art is not the way to go.

[totality]

Originally posted by walmart stocker
yoda i guess you have never been in a fight...

no son, he was mocking you. now run along, and play with your plastic sword until mommy gets home.

[walmart stocker]

totality
well i know he was mocking me thats why i said that...geez plastic swords?that is like so 1970's man..lol..you must be very old or perhaps you been spending to much time in the gym,maybe you need to get out more often...

binski20}
easier said than done...how will you avoid going to the ground if the guy takes you there...??sure you can try not to get thrown to the ground,but in reality if the guy tries to get you down and does what will you do..i am not bashing any art i am just sticking to the topic..the topic is "Is it a good idea to use boxing in a streetfight"? the answer of course is yes any art if good for a street fight,but my point is that most street fights go to the ground......

if any has ever watched ufc fights,boxers don't last very long...

[moondog]

crovax i think what the muay thai instructor was trying to tell you is that the parts of the body that can be used as weapons even after they are badly hurt are the knees, palms, and elbows. in fact the mossad, israel's intelligence agency, trains these parts of the body to a very high level. however i have been in and out of streetfights for the past 5 years, and i think that boxers have the highest survival rate in the street, along with muay thai fighters. this is because, in my opinion, their training prepares them for the reality of streetfighting. they continually spar, and as they progress protective gear is lessened until only the gloves remain. in the MA, protective gear is always on in the dojo. i'm not trying to diss the MA, i did TKD for 11 years and am currently doing tai chi full time, but in terms of conditioning the mind and body for brutality, i think boxing and muay thai have the advantage. while muay thai fighters will have the advantage of knowing how to use their feet, very useful in streetfights, boxers train to kill with their punches, so i think it all evens out. boxers are prepared for the raw aggression and brutality seen in the streets because they face it every day when they spar, and they spar very very frequently. again, this is my experience as a MA and as one who has been involved in numerous streetfights. i'd welcome anyone's opinion.
p.s. walmart stocker : UFC, as well as any other competition, has rules. you can't judge the efficacy of a fighting style on the street based on how well it does in a competition.

[The Technical]

Originally posted by Skinny
So where do you punch if you dont want to break your hand ? ?:D

You'll have to be aware of the "weak" spots of the body, for example, the forehead is a very dense and strong bone area, not a good target, however the jaw is covered with a lot of nerves, and it just hangs from two joints which makes it a good target to send a shock impact to the brain which KOs the opponent.

[moondog]

the kidneys and the lower ribs are also some good spots to hit, along with the solar plexus and the area that connects the head to the neck, just below the jaw. from experience though, whenever you sock it out with some buff guy, i'd concentrate on head and neck shots, since these guys usually have strong muscles in the torso which do a good job of absorbing impact. i came up against a muay thai fighter in my country's national wushu championship, and none of my body shots had any effect on him since he was very well muscled in that area. of course this is only from my level of skill, i've met some martial artists that can break the ribs of even the most heavily muscled body builder.

[STASH]

Originally posted by walmart stocker
if any has ever watched ufc fights,boxers don't last very long...

That's true, fights in the UFC usually end on the ground, but it's still not the same as a fight in real life. If you're rolling around on the ground with someone you're a huge target for his friends and you'll be taking kicks to the head from all directions.

I have great respect for the UFC and other NHB competitions, but real fights dont happen in closed off rings or octagons and are rarely 1 on 1.

[moondog]

i totally agree with stash. again the efficacy of the martial arts cannot be judged through competitions, even one like UFC or PRIDE, because they all have rules. there are no rules in the street. and it always boils down to the person, not the art. someone can be 10th dan of any martial art, yet if he freezes in a fight all the skill he possesses is useless. likewise a person may have no martial training, but if he remains calm and has the heart to truly fight he'll do a lot better than the martial artist who freezes in combat. nothing can substitute experience in the streets.

[walmart stocker]

well i was thinking in terms of 1 on 1...and you are right most street fights end up either 5 on 1 or 5vs 5 depending on if you have back up with you....

[Topher]

You don’t have to be stronger that your attacker, just make them weaker. Ah, i like that!

[YODA]

Here's another one for you....

The goal is not to win - the goal is to not lose :D

[Topher]

Smartass ;)

[YODA]

Not me - Rorian Gracie :D

[cioGium]

I think you can't undestand boxing if you don't practice it(i feel this goes with all martial arts). I have started boxing to complement my muay-thai training and i must say i am impressed.
After the warm up you do shadow boxing and then you start the punching(all the punching is done in 3 min rounds):
-punch the bags: 1st round just the lead hand
2nd round lead + back hand
3rd round lead+back+lead
4th round short distance
5th round free round
- shadow boxing againg
- wall mounts- again on rouns
- slow shadow boxing
- sparing one on one
- clinch work

I must mention that after the 4th round of punching i felt my shoulders would pop up and i will colapse & fall asleep.
On the wall mount the first thing that the trainer showed me is how to put the hips behind the punch and not to forget to protect my head with the hand not punching.

I have seen there 15 years old boys that gave true reasons to fear a boxer- i wouldn't want to connect with those "kids" croses or straight punches.
There was one 8 years old kid, Baluta his name, that punched the uppercut wallmount for 5 straight rounds and it seemed he was playing. Would you like to feel his uppercut at 15?
I know i am a bit off topic with this reply but i think that there are a few martial arts that prepare you for a fight (not a match but selfdefence) as boxing. Boxing and Streetfighting mix very well i might add.

p.s. was wondering, after 1 year of Boxing are you able to defend yoursel if the time comes? :rolleyes:

[Cyph]

I've busted my knuckles a couple of times, mainly when I hit people hard & connected. I didn't realise until after the fight had finished and I'd much rather be the one doing the punching, 'cause a couple of busted knuckles is nothing if that's all you walk a way with.