1954 Macau: Tai Chi vs White Crane

[imperial_guardz]

Hey...
I've heard of a great fight between two masters in Macau 1954.
It was between a Tai Chi Master and a White Crane Master...
I'm greatly interested...can someone give me some more info...such as what it was about, the outcome, how the fight went...etc...

Better yet...is there a video out anywhere online?

Thanx...

[nzric]

Syd found this link. It doesn't work on some computers, but if you go somewhere with a high-speed connection it should be ok.

http://home.rochester.rr.com/rochchentaiji/wu.htm

It's actually a real disappointment. They had so many restrictions placed on them for the fight that they could hardly do anything. Ends up looking like a couple of schoolkids having a scrap.

[Kat]

Originally posted by nzric
Ends up looking like a couple of schoolkids having a scrap.

I think a lot of fights end up looking like this.:D

[surgingshark]

That fight was so.........sad...

[YODA]

Looks like two people trying to box, who don't know how to box. Looks to me like a decent amateur boxer would have flattened either of them. Guess the chi wasn't flowing that day.

[Trent Tiemeyer]

It looked like the clip of those two cyclists fighting. Windmill punches, zero form, etc.

Why did they have to sweeten the sound of the strikes? There were obvious misses that had a nice clapping sound.

[littlebird]

The sparrow doesn't fear the net until it trips, nor the tiger the pit until he falls. They just don't understand at first.


Take care grasshoppers. That mist might be bugspray.

[YODA]

Littlebird - Step AWAY from those little pills dude :p

[Trent Tiemeyer]

Or just break them in half and share.:)

[Hakko-Ryu]

WTF is up with that fight?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? someone explain to me how that's even kung-fu...those guys fought like sissies...

[Sub zero]

are you sure theyweren't just poeple picked up off the street................actually no the fight would have been more vicous.

[David]

It was a charity event, acording to the subtitles. This type of thing was (still is?) common iin that region. It's like pro/celebrity golf tournements in that it's for fun rather than title or honour.

They were being very sporting, almost refereeing themselves in their anxiety to not offend.

Well, that's how I read it.

Rgds,
David

[wang]

Maybe they just never had a fight beofre?

[Hakko-Ryu]

even still....a person who has never fought before with decent strength could've probably whooped both their butts...at the same time! they had no center/balance, their guards were down the WHOLE time...that's a good invitation of a muay thai KICK to the FACE!

[jmd161]

Well although that was a sorry display from two masters of CMA.There were some kung fu techniques in that clip.If you know your basics in kung fu?

You will see alot of them in there.

They just were'nt done very well!:(


I saw some breaking and entering techniques displayed in that clip.None of them connected or were used at the right time?:confused: .........but they were in there.



jeff:)

[Hakko-Ryu]

what? the hammer fist looking strikes? those were sissy girl punches...and he was air boxing half the time...might as well be fighting an imaginary foe...even then he'd probably still manage to lose.....

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Hakko-Ryu
what? the hammer fist looking strikes? those were sissy girl punches...and he was air boxing half the time...might as well be fighting an imaginary foe...even then he'd probably still manage to lose.....


Like i said.


Well although that was a sorry display from two masters of CMA.There were some kung fu techniques in that clip.If you know your basics in kung fu?

You will see alot of them in there.

They just were'nt done very well! .........but they were in there.



I never said they were done correct or had a chance in hell of landing.But they were there.

There were several Choy Lay Fut type strikes used by one of the two men.He did'nt know how to use them because he used them in free air :rolleyes:

.............but he did use them. :confused:



jeff:)

[nzric]

Well I spose with enough wild swings some of them will end up looking like real MA moves.

Monkeys and typewriters anyone?

[jmd161]

nzric,


You know that statement is very true.But there is a difference between some of his wild swinging and and trying to use a technique.It's easy for everyone to pick apart that clip and talk about what it looks like.

Anybody even a person with no training can tear down a clip.But someone that knows techniques can see technique no matter how bad it looks or how sloppy it was applied.


Many ppl know martial arts all over the world.But why is it that when most fight it looks like wild swinging or kickboxing?

It's because ppl do what come natural to them.If you do not practice or train to a point where your techniques become part of you.Then you're going to return to what comes natural in a fight.Not the techniques you were taught.



jeff:)

[crumpet]

that clip has been done to death on every imaginable kf forum on the www! that white crane is tibetan white crane, and alot of their strikes are long range swings. and yeh it was a charity event with lots of rules. that was 50yrs ago (plenty of time to improve), chan hak fu is close to 100 and i'm not sure if the other man is deceased or not.

[Trent Tiemeyer]

So... Is that what two masters should look like?

[Sub zero]

Originally posted by 1ONEfighting
So... Is that what two masters should look like?


NO.Not in my opinion. Very dissapointed. Wate of a download. And there i was the other day saying there were just as many asian rubbish "masters" as there was any other nationality.Looks like proof to me. There was no stratagy, tehcnique.If these things are done correctly it should really but that visable to the naked eye. I'm not asking for clean crisp moves. Good martialartsits tend not to do this.

But i owuld have liked a punch that looked like it wasn't thrown by a twelve year old ned. Yes they may have been CLF punches, but with he complete lackof power generated by any of their punches i thihk they were dressed up neds. (anyone who's ever been in a fight with a ned will understand)

[pandajelly]

Originally posted by imperial_guardz
Hey...
I've heard of a great fight between two masters in Macau 1954.
It was between a Tai Chi Master and a White Crane Master...
I'm greatly interested...can someone give me some more info...such as what it was about, the outcome, how the fight went...etc...

Better yet...is there a video out anywhere online?

Thanx...
My Sifu tells me that famous fight took place between a 30yo 80Kg WhiteCrane fighter and a 50yo 60Kg TaiChi fighter, it came to a draw.

That said, because White Crane had the age and size advantage and didn't win does say something about the supeririority of TaiChi

Apparently "fights to the death" were legal in those days as both parties signed waiver document prior.

[pandajelly]

But that might be a diff fight, the one I am refering to was in Hong Kong, not Macau

[TheDan]

Hey,

I have been studying various martial arts for years and have been searching for the famous video of the face off between the two excellent styles, Tai Chi and White Crane.

I have watched the video on this site of Wu Kong-yi and Chan Hak-fu fighting and surely this is not the one I have been searching for for all this time. If there is another one, please tell me the location of it as I am very dissappointed in the fight that I saw. I understand that most of the power involved was internal so it could not be seen, but that's taking the piss (excuse my french).

If there is another video, or any other video of a fight that you find exceptionally interesting then please post it on here or email it to me.

Have fun everyone, happy training.

[Hugh]

Good god! I thought people might have been exagerating about that fight, but that was awful! I couldnt even tell which one was doing tai chi - looked like two kids having a scrap in the playground. They can't have been masters.

[hedgehogey]

I'm afraid to say, those were indeed "masters".

Oh, but the excuse making begins. "Not true kung fu!".

Well it was. That was what traditional (IN THE AIR) training does to you.

The only other clip we have of a "master" fighting (boztepe vs cheung) shows the same thing.

Of course you are all welcome to prove me wrong. Find me a clip of a "master" fighting well. Please.

[CKava]

Im getting a strange sense of deja vu.

[Mordred]

NO.Not in my opinion. Very dissapointed. Wate of a download.

Aarrgghh! It was a waste of a download! And I have very slow internet access, some times its a horrible 56K modem, I miss the broadband in the UK.

[MartialArtsSnob]

Apparently "fights to the death" were legal in those days as both parties signed waiver document prior.

Good God! do you realize how long it would take for these guys to kill each other. I have heard of fights that lasted for days and wondered, not any more. That was indeed sad. I am no master but I am quite sure that I would tear these guys apart, the same goes for most of the folks I train with.

[Shou Tu]

ok first time i have seen this fight, i call bull on all your parts based on tech. everyshot they hit upon was not great but it was on Centerline. watch the video several times with the thought of centerline power in mind. if you see the they strike the target no matter what relation of form the strike was it was on centerline. they struck out on centerline and the strike continued with their centerline. Otherwords center line didnt shift and arm stayed out while center was facing 12 their strike wasnt facing 3 or 9 get the idea. not body turning centerline away from strike. but centerline strike watch closely. maybe you guys arent training like you should.

SALUTE,

[nzric]

ok first time i have seen this fight, i call bull on all your parts based on tech. everyshot they hit upon was not great but it was on Centerline. watch the video several times with the thought of centerline power in mind. if you see the they strike the target no matter what relation of form the strike was it was on centerline. they struck out on centerline and the strike continued with their centerline. Otherwords center line didnt shift and arm stayed out while center was facing 12 their strike wasnt facing 3 or 9 get the idea. not body turning centerline away from strike. but centerline strike watch closely. maybe you guys arent training like you should.
Still doesn't counter the fact that they look like they'd both lose in a fight against a 9-year-old schoolgirl.

[Shou Tu]

thats funny i dont care who you are thats funny

[Richdog]

What a terrible fight, scrappy, and neither of them were pressing the attack apart from the first punch thrown in the opening 10 seconds. Most dissppointing. There may have been a couple of Kung Fu principles to be seen in there... but no way was true Kung Fu.

[akira2000]

Syd found this link. It doesn't work on some computers, but if you go somewhere with a high-speed connection it should be ok.

http://home.rochester.rr.com/rochchentaiji/wu.htm

It's actually a real disappointment. They had so many restrictions placed on them for the fight that they could hardly do anything. Ends up looking like a couple of schoolkids having a scrap.

The guys in video look like two idiots :D

[Stingrae789]

Still doesn't counter the fact that they look like they'd both lose in a fight against a 9-year-old schoolgirl.

:eek: actually that is VERY SCARY !!!

*edit* scary = 9 year old school girl

[Hiroji]

LOL!!!!! that was great!!! give the guys some cred, they had no gloves on! i would av loved to have been in the ring with one of them. or goth for that matter! having said that i dont think i could fight for laughing!!! respect!

[awakened nature]

Every time you watch that match a little puppy cries.


Before I saw that match, I heard that the fight was so impressive that it was what caused the Wu (chuan you (the style of tai chi i practice)) style to have a great increase of popularity, because of the bloodiness of the match, broken nose in the first few seconds.

Then I saw the match.......now I know why the puppies cry.....

[Chingmann]

That fight was the most shameful of fights I have ever seen. It looked like they were trying to swat flys for most of the match.

[d33pthought]

I just watched that video, and I know it was a fun match, but it would have been more convincing if their form was good, though they weren't trying to hit each other. Sort of like parrying and dodging punches and kicks. They didn't even do that, though. It was really....wierd. Maybe they needed more practice? They say the learning never stops.

[Hiroji]

ahhh what a clip!!! ahahaha one guy looks like hes got a knife or summat!!! looks like hes trying to stab him! ohhh man forget boxing, this stuff should be pay per view!

[wuwei]

I think this clip should give plenty of insight to all CMA practitioners. Definitely not good kungfu but how sad the state of CMA was and is in. And the fact that the right family name doesn't mean a thing.

[TheMightyMcClaw]

That was pretty.... yeah.
Maybe they were trying to play a joke on everybody, like Andy Kaufman's media stunts?
I heard about another bout in Malaysia around the same time.... a Taijiquan master vs. one of the foremost wrestlers in Malaysia. The two signed waivers saying they wouldn't press charges in case of injury or fatality in the ring. Apparently the Taijiquan master absolutely whipped the wrestler, whipping him around the ring. It's not as though Taijiquan was in a total state of dissary at the time....

[OblivionsAvatar]

Syd found this link. It doesn't work on some computers, but if you go somewhere with a high-speed connection it should be ok.

http://home.rochester.rr.com/rochchentaiji/wu.htm

It's actually a real disappointment. They had so many restrictions placed on them for the fight that they could hardly do anything. Ends up looking like a couple of schoolkids having a scrap.

ahhh but you CAN see the styles in there.
The round movements of white crane, and the taiji man's fist go up and down, you can see internal energy in that. It sure as hell wasnt perfect, but what fight ever is?

[awakened nature]

apprantly that punch to the face in the first few seconds is what basically won the fight.....apparantly it was really bloody and messy fight

[Gyaku]

What a crazy clip. No guard for starters, most CMA I know of at least have a guard! So why no guard? The sound effects were very good though.