Black Belt ?

[Ara]

I'm a red belt at the moment, looking to grade for my black tag at some point in the next half a year or so, depending on how my instructor sees my progress in class. A thought i always have is "after black tag, its the BIG one, black belt 1st degree".

To me, achieving a black belt 1st degree will mean the result of years of hard training, and the beginning of a new journey through the Dan grades, with the possiblitiy of teaching others TKD which i find quite daunting.

Id like to hear from everyone, especially the black belts, about their opinion on the importance (or unimportance) of attaining a black belt in TKD and what it means to you to achieve a black belt and start to grade through the Dan grades

:)

[Kwajman]

A black belt means, "the beginning" of your training. You will have mastered the basics, now your real training begins.

[God]

i think this thread is an invitation for everyone to tell you how much they feel black belt is the beginning of your journey.

[Andrew Green]

meant very little to me when I got it.

Was just a belt, nothing really changed.

Nowadays I don't wear any belt, I prefer that system.

edit: mine wasn't TKD, just noticed the section.

[darlph]

Been a aa BB for quite some time now. Yes it is the beginning of training for you. Mind Body Spirit are the 3 departments of Dan. At this time due to health problems, I missed my last test and I wasn't as disappointed as I I thought I would be. As far as I am concerned at this time, I have 4 more months of cancer treatments and I WILL" pass the test" by then. Sure, others who started after me have passed me up now, but Me and my instructor have a little joke about me and tests. Seems everytime I would be scheduled to test for a rank, I would break a knee, go down on my motorcycle, a hurricane. ecetera.... I am happy just where I am at this point, AND we have decided that I will not be having anymore tests because this cancer one is the biggest.

[semphoon]

I am red belt also- possibly going for black tag in Feb.

Since training in a belt-less system (boxing) I put less emphasis on the colour of belts that people wear.

IMHO it is about the individual learning experience and growth of the individual. Belts don't make much difference. In terms of sparring there are some junior belts that I am more cautious of than senior belts.

I am looking forward to teaching and have an excellent instructor who has already allowed me to take a warm down. This seems really simple but it's strange when you take up the position usually filled by your instructor for the first time and you see the whole class waiting for you to "instruct" them what to do.

As far as the "begining of the journey" I can't tell you... I'm still waiting to find out too.

[Kof_Andy]

When I was a kid black belt means the world to me, I looked at it as mastery, but in fact thats not always the case. Black Belt is just a new set of responsbility. To teach, set example, and permission to cross train once you got your black belt. Black Belt doesnt mean mastery at basic at all, infact there are still so many things I still need to improve in basic. Mastery is not a word to be used a martial artist.

[Chazz]

Good luck on you soon being a black belt. The way i look at it is that you will just start to have fun, to learn, to understand what the MA is about. To kids a black belt is like OMG. That person is soo good. After you earn it and then start to see what you have left to learn your like wow, i thought i knew something but yet i still have so much to learn. Its a great feeling to get that belt, just dont sway from the MA once you gave it like so many MAist do.

[Cal Tat]

Im testing for my black belt on January 17th. Not all to nervous about it though, a black belt test is like any other test. A new poomse, only difference is an essay to write, a scenario (ive been doing 12 Self Defense and One-step sparring since i was a Blue belt so that isnt anything new to me.) You finally reach the light at the end of the tunnel and what do you find ... another tunnel with a light at the end. btw anyone back kick themselves in the shin before?

[Ara]

lol i didnt think that was physically possible :)

any more views on the life of a black belt? is it important to you or just another step up the ladder?

[Kwan Jang]

-I view it as when one of my students achieves black belt as when they now have the discipline, the focus and the belief in themselves and their own abilities that I can REALLY start to teach them. We arrange the training and testing process to take them faar beyond what they percieved as their limits. When they have truly "dug that deep", they have grown to know themselves.
-Once a student has crashed through the barriars of pain and self- doubt, they can go past these again and again. Now, I can take your training to a MUCH higher level. Of course, these benefits do not exist if the student is not pushed to these levels in the process. While it is true that some under belts have more innate ability or potential than some dans and may be a better fighter as, say a red belt, than even some 1st and 2nd dans, they have never had such a sadistic bas---- push them so far past their limits (unless they have spent a lot of time in special forces) and therefore don't truly know how "deep the well" is. They don't know from experience how much pure heart or indomitible spirit can take them, so they have that edge.
-Once you have touched these levels of intensity, it really does transform you in many ways. You can get back there frequently and even begin to live at this level. This is where mastery lies. Of course you need to take the steps in your lifestyle that support these actions. :love:

[Kof_Andy]

Well said Kwang Jang.

[Tosh]

"Another step on the ladder?"

Nope first rung.

As I've said one hundred times.

Now you've learned the alphabet, time to start learning how to reading.

Getting a black belt is High School time to go to Uni ;)

[Bulldog]

I used to think that there was a HUGE difference between degrees of black belt when I was a kid...I know there are others who probably thought the same thing...

I used to think that a 1st degree could not "defeat" anything higher than 1st degree...and that a 5th degree would "clean the floors" with anyone of lesser rank...so, as you can see from my distorted view and understanding of black belts...I thought 7-9 were pretty much ninjas...ha ha

When I got my first degree in 1991...I had trained very hard for about 4 years...The 3 months before I went...I trained harder than ever...I mean...I was a TKD machine...

I got to the test day...and I was extremely nervous...
I was sweating bullets before we even got bowed in...:)

After it was all said and done...I was let down tremendously...:(
I was so prepared that what they threw at me, was, well (and not to sound arrogant) tame...

I walked away, not feeling like I diserved to have a black belt around my waist...

It took a long time for me to realize that becoming a dan holder does not mean that you have "attained" anything special...well, it's special, of course, because for many that is the goal when we start...to get black belt...

Black belt to me? Beginning...like some others have stated...
Beginning of understanding what respect really is and means...beginning of what maturity and responsibility is and means...you become a role model in a greater sense to everyone around you and not just in the arts...and it's something that can never be taken away from you...you earned it...

I still have my first black belt...it's now coming up on 13 years old...it's a little less "black" now...and it's hanging up with all my original color belts...I walk by them everyday before I head out to work...and it reminds me of how far I have come...

(Sorry...I should have just posted this in my journal! LOL)

[neryo_tkd]

i wish u all the best. just continue training hard if u really see urself with that black belt and as an instructor one day. if u want to teach others, then u should have that black belt. of course your skills are the most important thing, but then again i started my own club and it would be silly if i had a colored belt, right? it is essential that you learn and master everything a black belt should. in that case u can proudly wear it. but don't think that your learning is over once u have the black belt. u will be more mature and wiser in time and u'll notice a difference between the way u understood things when u started training, when u were let's a green belt and when u finally get that black one. and being a martial artist means that u r on the road of constant learning, improving urself and aiming towards perfection / the best u can be.

[Thomas]

The first black belt really contains a mix of feelings (in a traditional style setting)...

Often the quest for 1st dan becomes an obsession, over years and hardhips and injuries, good times and bad. We are intimidated by the test and flooded by fears of not being worthy. After the test, when you put that belt on, you experience new feelings...

You begin to realize how little you actually know and how much more work needs to be done to become good. At the same time, students in the class look at you and hold to an extremely high standard... just do something wrong and you'll hear about it.

You soon are put into a new position... that of giver. You must teach the class or conduct warmups. You may have done some before, as a blue or red belt, but it takes on new meaning now. Your time is spent guiding and showing stuff to students that you have spent hours trying to master. As you do it, the students evaluate you every second..."The master doesn't do it this way..."

You also find that suddenly you don't have a lot of time to work your new techniques or spend time going over the basics... you are busy giving instead of taking. I think this is why we lose many 1st dans... some get frustrated by the change and cannot commit to giving and learning in a single commitment... to stay on and do this until you can test for 2 dan, doesn' that mean more responsibility?

I think the key really is trying to keep your learning going forward and excelling at all of the new duties. It also means your source of learning shifts more to yourself and your students and not exclusively from the master. This is a tremendous weight of responsibility.

[HitNRun]

I just received my Black Belt two weeks ago, I'm in my mid 40s. Like you, I worked very hard and thought about getting the belt for a long time, for me, ever since my first class. As others had said, I was really prepared for my test, but I go to a school that by tradition all of the BBs test, even those who are not up for a new rank, so there was a fairly large pool of partners for me to contend with. I was the only adult testing for 1st Dan. In June, there will be (5) adult 1st Gups testing for 1st Dan, so I'm looking forward to testing with the BBs without having all of the stress. I mean, on the first day of my test, from the minute I got out of bed in the AM, I could have thrown up on demand at a moments notice. Thankfully, by the end of the week, I had settled down some.

In practical terms, when I sparred for example, I had a fresh partner every round. The test had everything that we had done before, but with an intensity X10. At the end of the test, I was completely out of gas. Right after my SBN tied on my new belt, he had a photo of him, myself, and the rest of the new( Jr. )BBs taken to hang up on the wall of the dojang. Clearly visable in the photo is one H*ll of a black eye on your's truly.

Anyway, I still have very mixed emotions about having the belt. On the one hand, I feel like every move I make is up for criticism, on the other hand, lower ranking color belts who used to "tell me how to do it correctly" now are asking me for help. Very strange. Also, the existing BBs, while always in the past have been very friendly to me, now seem to take me alot more seriously. For that matter, everyone in the dojang takes me more seriously.

To end my story, I have a lot to learn, I know this, but I'm thrilled at being a BB.

Tom

[Bulldog]

Congratulations Tom!

It is a transition going from color rank to black belt...there should be a class on how to adjust! I remember the first time I actually put my black belt on...I stood in front of the mirror and thought...oh boy...all the kids are going to think I'm a "ninja" or something...LOL...

I had an insctructor tell me something that helped a lot...
He said, treat your 1st dan like a white belt...cuz, you don't really know as much as you think you do...ha ha...

[KickChick]

*Lining up behind Bulldog*

... Congrats Tom.

Great perspective you have .. I can relate so well.

I too received my 1st dan weeks before turning 40. More of a personal achievement than anything.... I honestly did not even consider shooting for black belt when I started. I thought "blue belt" would be the highest I would ever go.... don't know why really but I think because I saw how hard the techniques were after that rank and thought I could never go the distance.

But I did .... and for me the black belt stands for my own personal best that keeps on getting better.... (one would only hope)!

There is a woman who is currently a brown belt who expects to test end of next year for black just before her 40th too. Her whole plan is to rent a hall, send out invitations etc. etc. ... and I had to explain to her that she will be physically & mentally spent afterwards and should plan the "party" for another day.
Take it from me.... my fellow students and husband threw me a "celebatory get-to-gether" .... all I remember is a bottle of tequilla, a worm and my master and husband lifting me up by the arm pits!

[Ara]

Hehehe

We have a sort of 'tradition' with red and black belts. We all train in a seperate class on the saturday and sunday. Every so often, all the red/black belts go out together and have a good time. If any new black belts have been recently promoted, they normally get the spotlight, and many, many lethal cocktails :P

[HitNRun]

Thanks for your comments. Another observation that I can now make, which is relative to the topic we are discussing- has to do with the students attitude after receiving a BB.

I have heard many people complain that many students quit their martial art right after they make rank. I have seen one or two students get their BB and never step foot into the dojung after that.

But for me, my intrest has picked up since I got the belt. I will say that the last 3 months before testing took me almost to the verge of burn-out, but I'm not even considering quiting. Students will either stay or quit, I do think that some people need to take a break after the test, hopefully most will return after a while.

Tom

[Thomas]

Originally posted by HitNRun

I have heard many people complain that many students quit their martial art right after they make rank. I have seen one or two students get their BB and never step foot into the dojung after that.

But for me, my intrest has picked up since I got the belt. I will say that the last 3 months before testing took me almost to the verge of burn-out, but I'm not even considering quiting. Students will either stay or quit, I do think that some people need to take a break after the test, hopefully most will return after a while.

Tom

Congrats on your promotion.. sounds like it was a good test.

I am one of those who has mentioned people quitting after their first black belt and have seen this over the years. Here's some warning signs:
(1) Decides to "take some time off as a reward for all the hard work" and is gone for a week or two... then begins doing this more often.

(2) Starts to come less often, maybe cuts out one night a week... after all 'I am a black belt now'. Then it goes to two...

(3) Starts to feel like they "aren't learning anything new" because everyone is going over the basics, and maybe less time is spent giveing the new black belts new techniques but rather having them go over the old.

(4) Gets frustrated over having to teach the lower belts instead of learning something new on their own.

(5) Begins scheduling other commitments in time slots for martial arts... "I'll go next week".

(6) Feels a sense of having met their "goal"... i.e. being a "black belt" and decides to move on to something new.

If you are experiencing any of these, take a good ,look at your goals and motivation and maybe have a chat with your master about addressing some of these.

Please don't think I am picking on anybody. I have seen new black belts come and go, many gone for good. Out of all the 1st dans that are promoted, not that many go on to 2nd dan and even fewer to 3rd and higher. In my personal opinion, I have found that older students, starting later in life, tend (in my experience) to stick with it more than some of our younger black belts.

Take a look at these numbers, you can see that as the dan rank gets higher, the number holding them drops hugely!
http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/promotion/yudanja.asp?div=5

[KickChick]

To become a TKD black belt in our school usually demands a minimum of five years training. Probably the most difficult challenge for students to overcome is sticking with it when they don't know they are constantly getting better.
As a beginner their excitement level is high. You're exploring a new environment, new concepts, metting new friends. Youre learning how to move your body in ways you never thought possible. And then .... you seem to think you know it all :rolleyes:

I don't want to "stereotype" the BB quitter, but more often than not it is the younger student who reaches pre teen age. How often do I hear some parents say.... "I don't want him/her to quit until they get their blackbelt, they've come so far"....Unfortunately most don't quite "get it" that earning your black belt is only just the beginning.

I am sure it does happen to many "older" students as well who feel they cannot go on training due to other responsibilities that arise forcing them to quit .... (more often than not they are physical conditions or career responsibilities)

The TKD union that our school belongs to is soon requiring students to remain training for a minimum of 6 months after earning their black belt.

An approach that our school has been trying in order to "save" future black belts from quitting.... is allowing brown belts that are coming up for black belt testing to be included in the black belt only classes. It is also good preparation for their black belt test.

As black belts we are to exemplify the "black belt attitude" and by our actions convey to these up-and-coming black belt students the importance of black belt training and what it exactly involves. They get to see exactly what is learned at this level. ie....sparring techniques, forms, advanced techniques

Of course, many of these students are younger and quite intimidated when it comes to "sparring" with us .... but so far I believe this approach is really working well. When sparring many of the younger students I tend to motion with my fist hitting my chest protector to come at me with what they got while calling out combos for them, talking thru the sparring match. I am there primarily to show them where there weakness lies (their open targets).

So far we've had 3 or 4 students taking advantage of the opportunity of training along side the black belts of our school....
and it has reminded us Black Belts to keep that "attitude".
How this is going to be done is uncertain at this point .... but what I would like to know from all of you is.....

How prevalent is the "black belt quitter" in your school?

Does your school have these same requirements when achieving black belt rank?

[Thomas]

Kickchick: Sounds like some great ideas in there for trying to retain black belts.

When we have enough people for "advanced classes", we open it up to red belts and black belts... definately a good morale booster for all involved and a good incentive for junior belts to want to get to.

By the way, I forgot to mention that my previous link was for WTF (Kukkiwon certied) black belts...

[HitNRun]

The school I belong to allows students to attend the black belt only class when they make it to 3 Gup. Not many take advantage of it. In fact, I waited until I was within 4 months of my BB test before I attended the BB class on a regular basis. I think it is a very good idea to allow the students that will be taking the test the option of attending the BB class.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone on the topic of black belt retention, but I really don't think there is much that can be done to keep students who are determined to quit after making rank. How do you "require" a student to take 6 months of class after receiving their BB?

Tom

[Din]

once you reach bb it more a case of learning more advanced techniques and bettering the ones you have already learnt till you have master them all...
and dont worry teaching other may be daunting at first .. it was to me when i first started but it soon becomes fun and there's a certain satisfaction in imparting your knowledge onto others.

[TigerAnsTKDLove]

Id like to hear from everyone, especially the black belts, about their opinion on the importance (or unimportance) of attaining a black belt in TKD and what it means to you to achieve a black belt and start to grade through the Dan grades

to me attaining a black belt ( i aint one yet) to me it means a whole new journey. attaining a black belt isn't all about wearing a black belt around my waist and saying hey look im better. to me its saying much more... i have discipline, respect, indomnitable spirit, and a whole new journey filled with obstacles ahead. also when your first dan your making your way to 2nd dan and so on... its a long hard journey but you learn as you go through the gradings you get stronger physically but mostly mentally. to me thats wut a black belt is all about and i know there is so much more to define a black belt.

[HitNRun]

Id like to hear from everyone, especially the black belts, about their opinion on the importance (or unimportance) of attaining a black belt in TKD and what it means to you to achieve a black belt and start to grade through the Dan grades


First, no matter what anyone says, rank has its privileges. Making rank for me was a very big deal. I started this endeavor right at the height of a mid life crisis. I had to get myself into shape, learn moves that my body never, ever thought it would ever have to do, and so on. Between white belt and black, I had three operations, broke 4 bones in my foot, broke my collar, broke 8 out of ten toes, dislocated my thumb twice, and assorted bumps and bruises. My dad passed away, my sister went off the deep end and left her mess for me and the rest of my family to pick up, totally wrecked my car, and on and on. After all of this and more, I kept in pursuit of the goal. Making Dan grade is something I always wanted to do, but never thought I could do.





to me attaining a black belt ( i aint one yet) to me it means a whole new journey. attaining a black belt isn't all about wearing a black belt around my waist and saying hey look im better. to me its saying much more... i have discipline, respect, indomnitable spirit,



I had this when I was a white belt. Don't wait for the belt TigerAnsTKDLove, you can do this right now.




its a long hard journey but you learn as you go through the gradings you get stronger physically but mostly mentally. to me thats wut a black belt is all about and i know there is so much more to define a black belt.


True

[basf12]

not easy to become a black belt u know
your punches,kicks must be perfect or not is embarrasing
u must do conditioning because u are a blackbelt not a colour belt student
u also must now how to do difficults kicks because u will have to show to others and must prepare to do demonstration

good luck in coming grading

[Martial7]

Peace, I just recently attained the rank of Shodan in Kempo-jujitsu and to me i feel as if this was just my rights of passage into learning and maturing with my skill. We call it "beginning transmission".

[Thomas]

Peace, I just recently attained the rank of Shodan in Kempo-jujitsu and to me i feel as if this was just my rights of passage into learning and maturing with my skill. We call it "beginning transmission".

Congrats on your achievement! I like the expression "beginning transmission"!

[Martial7]

Thanks for the congrats Thomas, May i ask what you study?

[Thomas]

Taekwondo, Hapkido (IHF) and Combat Hapkido... check out my profile for more details if interested

[Martial7]

Ive heard my Teachers mention it in class before. Thats cool. I believe they bring some of the principals of it into our fighting system as well. Its more offensive than defensive tactics right ?

peace

[Thomas]

This thread has a ton of info and other links about Combat Hapkido: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16727

I would prefer to answer Combat Hapkido questions there so as not to "hijack" this thread!

[inbuninbu]

How prevalent is the "black belt quitter" in your school?

As far as I know, there is no BB quitter in our school.

BB tests are few and far between - I've been attending classes for three years and we are just coming up to a BB grading this October i.e. there actually hasn't been one for three years. I would say that ppl tend to quit in the middle-higher ranks e.g. green and blue belt. In the lower ranks you progress pretty quickly, like a grading every few months. At higher level there maybe months or even a yr inbetween tests. Ppl simply get impatient and bored, they think they're not learning anything new. Those who do make it to grade for BB have, in a sense, already been through the fire and they're utterly committed and very likely to continue. Our highest BBs have been at the club for over 8 and 6 yrs respectively and they're comfortable with their position.

As a blue belt I am the oppostie of many students; I hated grading every few months and much prefer having a long time in between tests. I don't feel rushed and more importantly have the time to focus on non-sylabus stuff eg. sparring skills, perfecting earlier techniques, conditioning. It's more relaxed and I feel I'm maturing naturally as an MA without the constant pressure of near gradings.

The higher I climb up the tree the less I care what belt I wrap round my waist before class. Hopefully one day I'll reach BB but I'm absolutely no hurry. It's still like a distant mirage, an eventual target but not the one I'm pursuing right now. I generally concentrate on the immediate targets eg. improve my spinning kick this month, perfect a form in two. I'm fine just pootling along, slow and steady but I'll get there in the end, cos I always do. :D

[Andy Cap]

I would guess that acheiving black belt and the level of recognition that comes with it would be different for each individual based on their situation and motivations. Some people train in small schools where being black belt means you are at the top of the class - at other schools it means you have joined a group of black belts. What does this mean to each individual? Some people do martial arts for the social value combined with the personal development. Some study and train for mental discipline. Some train for power and strength. For each of these scenerios a black belt would prolly mean a different thing.
When I first received my black belt I was excited adn thought I was really something. That was a good thing for me because it gave me confidence in my techniques and helped me to relax and learn those techniques better. After having that rank for a couple of years I felt 2nd dan was the place for me , and tested for that. Went throught he whole building process again. Third dan was several years later and an entirely different thought process. I tested for third dan so i could advance and learn the new forms that would come with that rank. I also wanted to test myself and the promotion test was a good method.
Fourth dan was something I didn't really want at all. I saw all of the politics that came with that rank and title of "Master". My Kwang Jang pushed adn pushed for me to test and finally after being a 3rd dan for many years I tested. I tested more because it would help my school than what it would do for me. Although I was going to learn a new form because of the rank, I realized by then that i still had to learn how to throw a proper sidekick.
The story goes on, but this was my path up to a few years ago. Rank at this point is not of consquence to me, but that was something I had to develop into. My first black belt is still my most prized martial arts posession/accomplishment. I had that belt for 13 years - with each new dan level adding a piece of white electrical tape. 4th dan was the end of that belt around my waste :(
So, enjoy the experience of the test and joy of the accomplishment and savour the first years as a black belt - they are magical experiences indeed.