Metal or Wooden or Acrylic

[Shyguy]

Recently, I've seen a few programs on T.V. showing martial artist demonstrating their skill with the nunchaku. After that I started watching a whole load of Bruce Lee movies.
Now I want to get a pair of nunchaku and the problem is that I can't decide wheither I want a wooden one, metal one or acrylic one.
Anyone got any good recommendations?
They will be highly apreciated.

[Kwajman]

I'd start with a foam one. Wait till you smack yourself in the head with nunchucks. You'll appreciate the foam.

[Shyguy]

I read some where on this site, someone posted, it is better to learn with hard ones as it is easier to get used to. but, hey maybe your right. I'l consider it.

[Kwajman]

Talk to some of the more experienced weapons experts here...

[hwardo]

There is a middle ground between foam and hard nunchucka-- you can get chained and heavy ones that have a foam padding over the handles. It still hurts when you wack yourself, but you can limit any serious damage. It's good, because you get a feel for the weight, and when you get good enough to not kill yourself, it is an easy transition to real ones.

[47Ronin]

Umm, everyone knows my line :D

Please do yourself a favor and learn to use them from some one who knows what they are doing so you don't kill yourself...

[martyn]

If you are looking for speed metal ones are good but i would get a wooden pair for the weight

[Saz]

Originally posted by 47Ronin
Umm, everyone knows my line :D

Please do yourself a favor and learn to use them from some one who knows what they are doing so you don't kill yourself...

Seconded... weapons aren't toys, they're dangerous.

[littlebird]

I would go with some very light ones, say a broom stick or a dowel. Attach a strong nylon cord to eyelets screwed in the ends.

The reason I say this is that you still can get whacked enough to be careful, but not bad. Make sure the edges are smooth.
You should never have any weapon practice with something that can't hurt at all. You grow careless.

Get where you feel comfortable with them and can even impress yourself and others.

Then go to heavier ones.

I suggest 10 hours minimum with the light ones.

If you wish to make durable ones that look nice, use hardwood say hickory. Oak splinters. Once you decide on what you really want, size, weight, length, I would suggest "iron wood." (iple) or the like You will have to have power tools but you end up with beauty with the power of steel.

I have the tendency to like not only highly functional weapons, but beautiful highly functional weapons.

Some info-
(ipe woods)
iron wood most dense -Arizona, deserts, many places
cocobolo next -easier to get large pieces -costa rica

(density)

Balsa .11
Pine .36
Alder .38
Redwood .40
Cedar .42
Mahogany .45
Laurel .47
Cherry .50
Elm .50
Fir, Douglas .50
Magnolia .50
Walnut .53
Teak .56
Goncalco Alves .56
Birch .60
Maple .63
Beech .64
Oak .65
Rosewood, Bolivian .71
Rosewood, E. Indian .78

Water 1.00

Cocobolo 1.10
Ironwood 1.30

If you want to develop your fingers, wrist, and forearm try whittling ironwood.

:)

[JediMasterChris]

How about actually taking and art and not trying to learn from the TV!!!!???

[Reiki]

Learn from an instructor who knows how to use them. You can't really hope to learn anything much from TV! The best method of learning any martial art is to join a club and have lessons.

I have several pairs of chucks, I found the light ones were awful to use, you can't make them go dead when you want, they are like a thing with perpetual motion! They can whip up behind your head and CLUNK! It hurts a lot when you have hit your head with some force!

I have a foam set for playing with new moves, and the set I like the most is a hardwood set of speed chucks with chain & ballbearings for fast rotation.

I wouldnt get metal ones, the real weapons are made of wood, and are better to use.

If using heavy ones to start with, wear a crash helmet to avoid getting knocked out from them whipping up behind your head if you have any problems with deadening the strike!!

:D

[Freeform]

You do wing chun, don't bother with nunchuas they're highly over-rated, learn butterfly knives/pole, they're part of your art.

Col

[Shyguy]

Enough abou the T.V. this is a different thread.
I've already learned the pole/ bo staff. i just want to try somthing new. I don't like the butterfly knives as i don't really like weapons that cut people.
What about the acrylic ones, does anyone know what they are like?
Thank you all so far from what you have posted (mostly little bird)

[Disciple]

Start with the foam. as with weight trainning, start light to learn the new exercise themn go up as you get faster and stronger. I have cracked my head with hard oak ones while moving it rather fast while doing a behined the neck cross over... not cool... I went and put it down and got the foam ones out again, then soon my 2 pair of rattan ones came in that the demonstration team I was on had ordered. Truthfyully, I like rattan ones, they are easier to maintain control with great speed, which mean more kinetic force. KE is Mass times velocity squared.

[47Ronin]

How do you learn something you have no instruction on?

[Shyguy]

Dear 47Ronin:
I'm only telling you this cos you asked ok, Im not a troll.
You watch somthing you really like on tv from a MA film then play it back in slow mo (has to be a video)

PS: - any1 got any details on the acrylic nunchaku.

[gojuman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by littlebird
[B]I would go with some very light ones, say a broom stick or a dowel. Attach a strong nylon cord to eyelets screwed in the ends.


Be careful here!! Eyelets screwed into broom handles might not hold strong enough. Always test your nunchaku before using. Test them by grabbing hold of each stick and pull as hard as you can. If it breaks while you pull it would definitely break at some poin while you would be swinging the weapon and you might break your mother's favorite tifany lamp. the himo or the string must be secured with proper holes drilled into the wood.
Oh yah, get a real teacher.

[Shyguy]

I'm not trying to be annoying or insult you, gojuman, but if you pull a nunchaku as hard as you can, wouldn't it break even if it was made by the professionals.

[gojuman]

No!!My nunchuku don't break.

[Reiki]

Originally posted by Shyguy

PS: - any1 got any details on the acrylic nunchaku.

they're toys just to look pretty

buy real wooden ones, preferably in mahogany or some other heavy wood.

And for goodness sake find a dojo that will teach you the proper use of them - don't try this at home off a martial arts video! You wont learn proper technique and may end up KOing yourself! Or worse learning to use them wrongly.

[Redhotdragon]

Originally posted by Disciple
KE is Mass times velocity squared.
coughs

K.E = 1/2 x mass x velocity^2

but the point still holds...more mass = more kinetic energy...

[Cudgel]

but more velocity would add more K.E. so you could have lighter weapon deliver more K.E. because it could be swung faster.
Right?

[gojuman]

Don't forget mass. Less mass, ie. lighter chuks=less ke.

[Redhotdragon]

but think about the difference mass makes...and the difference velocity makes...note the all important squared....most k.e will be produced from metal chucks...

[gojuman]

Yes, but is velocity not detirmined by mass to some degree. And how much faster does a lighter article have to go to compensate for diminished mass. Exagerate the example for one moment. take a pair of chucks made from iron and one other pair made from balsa wood. swing as fast as you can with either pair and tell me how fast you must swig the balsa pair to produc e the same KE as the iron pair.

[Cudgel]

But which can you swing faster?
THe heavier iron chucks or the lighter balsa chucks?
OK I concede there is point at which you need more mass but how about instaed of the extreme example compare iron and aluminum chucks.
And there is the question of how the chucks are shaped.
If one set has the handles(?) in a flattened ovla shape and the other has a more rounded shape, the shape taht has less wind resistance would travle slightly faster. RIght?

[gojuman]

My extreme example was to illistrate that mass has a lot to do with the force of the blow. Obviously, shape , contours, edges, etc. of the weapon are going to make a difference in the type of blow. But I don't think that we are really in dissagreement here.
Nuchaku that are too light are no good and too heavy a pair are no good either. Find something that is strong and of a comfortable weight and "Bob's your uncle!"

[Cudgel]

Agreed. A weapon should have weight that you are comfortable with.

[God]

haha


that last exchange was absolutely hilarious. every single post said either "but ke increases with mass" or "but ke increases with speed" ad nauseum.

[Shyguy]

I think something ahs happened to my thread, but never mind that. Most people seem to tink that the wooden ones are the best.

I have one new question. If a wooden one was up againest a sword, there is a probability that it would get sliced in half. But if it were metal wouldn't it stand a better chance.
(This is my own personal conclusion, so I apologise if I sound really brainy or insult the nunchaku)

[Cudgel]

actually you would be surprised at well a sword DOESNOT cut wood, especially wood that is moving or is not braced against something. You are in fact more likly to break or bend the sword than do severe damage to the chucks.
Swords can cut wood, so can a knife, but i sincerly doubt that a sword will cut clean through pair of hardwood chucks.
Axes have can have a bit of trouble cutting hardwoods and they are meant to cut wood.
A simple way to test ths out would be to buy a pair of wooden chucks attach one end to something so the other end can swing freely and then proceed to try to bash the living heck out of it with a sword.

[gojuman]

Rock, Paper, Scissors?

[littlebird]

shyguy you are correct
The sword will cut the wood if the right conditions are met.

What actually happens will depend on the relative speed of the blade and the wood and the angle of the blade edge, the hardeness/toughness of the wood, the thickness of the wood, the weight of the wood, the angles of each and the trajectories of both.

I will make it simpler.
The momentum (mv) of the wood will help the blade cut it, but the edge of the blade must be sharp and hard enough and have an angle that aids the cut. All this will be affected by the hardness and toughness of the wood itself and also the thickness.
This assumes that the blade will not be broke, or turned by the wood.

Simpler still.
For the wood not to be cut, it must bounce away from the sword intact, or it must not let the sword penetrate enough to split it while knocking the sword out of the way or stopping it.

[Shyguy]

hmmm ... seems as though little bird has been doing a lot of research.
What about metal then, is there a chance of a sword cutting through that. Or would it just make a really loud "KER-CHING"

[gojuman]

Himo is the rope that connects the two rods of the nunchaku and kasari is the chain that connects two nunchaku rods. Obviously if you plan on fighting some swords man bring your kasari nunchaku and leave your himo pair at home. Back in Okinawa they made nunchaku from wood and they fought swordsmen all the time and twice on Sundays.

[jimmytofu]

I jumped straight in with wood nunchaku connected with rope. My theory was that I'd learn to respect it as a weapon if there was any risk of injuring myself. I've hit myself a couple of times - usually fingertips.

[God]

Originally posted by littlebird
shyguy you are correct
The sword will cut the wood if the right conditions are met.

What actually happens will depend on the relative speed of the blade and the wood and the angle of the blade edge, the hardeness/toughness of the wood, the thickness of the wood, the weight of the wood, the angles of each and the trajectories of both.

I will make it simpler.
The momentum (mv) of the wood will help the blade cut it, but the edge of the blade must be sharp and hard enough and have an angle that aids the cut. All this will be affected by the hardness and toughness of the wood itself and also the thickness.
This assumes that the blade will not be broke, or turned by the wood.

Simpler still.
For the wood not to be cut, it must bounce away from the sword intact, or it must not let the sword penetrate enough to split it while knocking the sword out of the way or stopping it.

this is not how physics works.

for cutting something, the blade has to be sharp enough and the material soft enough so that all the severed fibers/molecules cut by the blade do not cause the rest of the body to move so much that the entire body moves.... wood is not like that. that's why you brace would against things when you chop it. when you swing the sword and hit the wood chucks (ha ha), you will be knocking the whole thing away...as if you swung a bat at it.

let me put it in simpler terms... the momentum (which by the way, guys, is mass times velocity. yep. or as we physics type say, mv) of the wood is 0, hypothetically. when you swing the sword and hit it, you're applying a force to it. if it breaks, there has to be a force. this force is applied FIRST away from the sword like a bat hitting a pinata. if the sword penetrates, there's a force parallel to the nunchuku that actually causes the splitting action. sword blades are diagonal, so the vectors combine and create forces both away from the sword (like swinging a bat) and parallel to the chuck.....like a wedge.

within everybody, there are many bodies. so let's take that into account. let's pretend it's NOT finished...let's say it's composed entirely of splinters. you hit with the blade, causing a narrow column of atoms to move....it creates a shockwave. how strong are those splinters? will the rest of the bodies be intertwined enough to move with the atoms the one molecule you hit? are htey connected so strongly they just drag with it? is it like hitting a pinata with a baseball bat? or are they loosely connected? can you force that one moleculue to hit the next molecule fast enough so that the momentum of the standing attached moleculues in the same splinters remain at rest long enough to breka the bonds without any movement? can you cause that moleculue to induce speed along the same conditions as the previous in a perfect circle, effectively splitting the nunchuku in two?

the wedging effect adds another element....brute force :D
it's much easier to chop it in half with the wedging aspect of the sword. remember the chuck e cheese ball pit? if you were to shove your hands in the ball pit really fast, you could get to the bottom without disturbing the ball pit (if you're good). this is similar to a "clean" cut in anything. but wiht a wedge, it's like sticking you rhands in with a swooshing motion that dips out to the sides...balls get thrown about in a chaotic fashion...now you have a sidekick :) to help you reach the bottom, but it requires more effort and does more damage. but it's more likely you actually hit it. you know?

the molecules making hardwood nunchukus are strong enough that they basically cannot be cut unless braced against something.

so basically, when you hit it, the whole things gonna go flying. there's extremely little chance for it to be sliced unless it's braced.

also, trajectory has NOTHING to do with it. the centripotal (sp?) force is always applied to nunchukus in motion....the chain will always cause it to go in a circle. that's NOT trajectory. also, even if they were projectiles, trajectory effects nothing but the angle. which you already mentioned.

[#1 Stutta]

Good job, God! I'm gonna take Physics next year, I think.

But back to question.

Acrylic: Those are just for show and something to put on your wall.

Foam: These are practice chucks, you spar with these. I would suggest you start out with these b/c you will hit yourself in your teeth, face, head, fingers, and other body parts. Most of them are about the same weight of some wooden chucks.

Wooden: I like these the best. They most likely won't be cut by a sword (see God's post). You can get a chain linking them together and use the chain to block a sword. They come in many different kinds of wood (see littlebird's post about hardness of wood). I have red oak chucks.

Metal: Really hard. Most are heavy. Practice with these after you have a lot of experience. Swords can't cut it. They can crack your skull open and break fingers and other bones. I wouldn't advise getting these; they aren't realistic. The original chucks were mostly made of wood.

If your chucks are well made you won't be able to pull them apart. You can get them with ballbearings. Ballbearings make spinning them much easier. There can be a chain, rope, nylon, really anything that links them together. Chains work well for choking people and performing jointlocks b/c the links pinch the skin tight. They also won't be cut by swords.

There are two different kinds of chucks. Regular and speed. Speedchucks go faster and are a little bit thinner. They are also lighter than regular chucks. They are a little bit harder to control b/c of their speed. Regular chucks are bigger, heavier, and easier to control. They move slower, but are similar to the ones that were first made a long time ago.

I would suggest you buy foam chucks b/c you're are just starting. Then gradually move to wooden and maybe even metal if you want to. If you want to start out with wooden or metal, get a mouthguard and headgear. It'll hurt when you hit yourself.

And don't try to learn from TV. Yes, they show some different ways to swing your chucks, but they don't show everything. The best thing for you to do, if you want to really learn everything about chucks, would be to get training from an instructor.

[Shyguy]

So foam ones are the best to start with. Right.
Can anyone give me a good positive description on actually how hard they (foam) can hit. Because I like the idea of sparring with them.

Thank you so far for everyones details. Mostly those who have devoted so much time into typing all "physics" stuff.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

this force is applied FIRST away from the sword like a bat hitting a pinata.

However a sword has a sharp edge, so it'd be more like hitting a pinata with an axe. Or perhaps hammering a nail into a wall rather than just trying to hammer a hammer into a wall.


let me put it in simpler terms... the momentum (which by the way, guys, is mass times velocity. yep. or as we physics type say, mv) of the wood is 0, hypothetically.

Not true, if the wood is moving. In fact can be viewed as not true even if only one of the objects is moving, since you can take a frame of reference where both are in motion.


can you force that one moleculue to hit the next molecule fast enough so that the momentum of the standing attached moleculues in the same splinters remain at rest long enough to breka the bonds without any movement?

What?


the molecules making hardwood nunchukus are strong enough that they basically cannot be cut unless braced against something.

Not quite true, a good sword or axe will go through them, braced against something or not.


so basically, when you hit it, the whole things gonna go flying. there's extremely little chance for it to be sliced unless it's braced.

Not quite true. If its spinning it will have momentum behind it, and will add rather a large amount of pressure to that along the sword's edge. Since nunchucks are curved, the entire force is concentrated at that single point. It may not slice through the nunchucks completely, but its certainly going to make rather a large nick.



Metal: Really hard. Most are heavy. Practice with these after you have a lot of experience. Swords can't cut it. They can crack your skull open and break fingers and other bones. I wouldn't advise getting these; they aren't realistic. The original chucks were mostly made of wood.

And the original axes were made of stone. Yet steel axes are superior to stone ones. What's your point?

[God]

Originally posted by LilBunnyRabbit
[B]However a sword has a sharp edge, so it'd be more like hitting a pinata with an axe. Or perhaps hammering a nail into a wall rather than just trying to hammer a hammer into a wall.


no matter how sharp the blade is, there must be a force causing it to penetrate...that force is straight, not diagonal. If you isolate the very tip of the sword or axe, it's like a bat hitting a pinata...a very very very small bat. do you get it?


Not true, if the wood is moving. In fact can be viewed as not true even if only one of the objects is moving, since you can take a frame of reference where both are in motion.


all i was doing was making fun of the out of place mention of momentum.


What?


Ummm...physics?


Not quite true, a good sword or axe will go through them, braced against something or not.


I don't understand why you said "what" about the specifics of my argument, but refuted my conclusion anyway. :confused:


Not quite true. If its spinning it will have momentum behind it, and will add rather a large amount of pressure to that along the sword's edge. Since nunchucks are curved, the entire force is concentrated at that single point. It may not slice through the nunchucks completely, but its certainly going to make rather a large nick.


Throughout that entire mess of a post it seems I forgot to mention that I do believe sir that a sword or axe will make a rather large nick indubitably in the nunchuku, but it simply won't slice cleanly all the way through

[LilBunnyRabbit]

no matter how sharp the blade is, there must be a force causing it to penetrate...that force is straight, not diagonal. If you isolate the very tip of the sword or axe, it's like a bat hitting a pinata...a very very very small bat. do you get it?

A very, very, very small bat with the entire momentum of a sword behind it. The force will knock away the chucks, yes, but first it'll do damage reasonable to twice the momentum that the chucks are moving with in a single narrow area. Pressure boy, pressure.


Throughout that entire mess of a post it seems I forgot to mention that I do believe sir that a sword or axe will make a rather large nick indubitably in the nunchuku, but it simply won't slice cleanly all the way through

Probably not, no. But then again have you tried it? Have you ever tried swinging a sword at an upright bamboo pole? Or a thick branch, simply placed upright, or even being swung towards you? I have. They have a tendency to give way.

[God]

i didn't refute that it wouldn't do damage, i just said that the force of the sword was in the direction the sword was traveling. i don't know why i mentioned anything about the tip of the blade, becasue it really didn't add much. i guess was thinking "vectors, and also "everyone in this thread must think the force is along the blade"...which wasn't true at all.

i've macheted my way through the heart of the jungles of...indiana... i found myself having to take a plethora of whacks to get through nunchuck-sized branches.

[Cudgel]

And as little added thing. Swords are meant to cut flesh and bone, not wood. Wood is not like living bone.
And a machete is designed to chop wood, but its not as good as an axe AS God demonstrated with his comment about taking several wacks to chop through branches. Ive dont the same thing with my machete it doesnt chop wood very well, it does a really good job spliting it however. My little camp axe chops wood a lot better.
And dried wood is harder to cut through than fresh wood.

[Michael16]

Back to the point...

I started with a pair of foam AND a pair of metal chucks (wood ones are fine). Foam ones are cheap so getting two pairs should be ok. I prefer my metal ones to wood cos they have rubber grip, which i don't think most wood'ns have.

I used the foam ones until i was confident with a few techniques then tried them with the metal ones (the shift can be awkward, but just takes a bit of time). If I learn a new technique (from my INSTRUCTOR, not Bruce on the telly) I will switch to the foams again (even if only for 1 or 2 mins), u c the logic?

As for sparring with foams, it will depend on what kind of chucks you get cos ther are foam on plastic, foam on wood & foam on metal... and it makes a difference!
Personally, I don't like the idea of sparing with chucks!

This may not be "right" but it's how i did it and i'm doin ok.
Hope that helps (if u havn't bought any chucks yet).

[Cloud-uk]

I'm going to get flamed for this, but what the hell...:rolleyes:

I think you can teach yourself how to use nunchakus to a pretty good level. You need to put in more time, but you can teach yourself to do anything in my opinion. Yes, you can teach yourself to drive a car, yes, you can teach yourself quantum-physics, yes, you can teach yourself nunchaku technique.

I've been self teaching for 2 years, and you just have to have a system. You teach yourself the basics, then you move on to the more advanced stuff. Sparring is a little tricky, but realisticly when are you going to use nunchakus in a fight? Still if that's what you want to learn, by all means get a friend interested and make sure everything is safe. However, learning flips, tricks, kata and freestyle nunchaku stuff is something you can do by yourself, in my opinion.

I've used wooden chuks since I started and they've been great. I disagree that if you don't have an instructor you'll kill yourself. All you've got to do is be organised and have some common sense. A behind the neck switch? Maybe best if you don't go at it with all your strength the first time.

Sure, nunchakus are not toys, but they're just like kitchen knives. Be sensible and you wont get hurt.

Anyway...that's just what I think.:)

[gojuman]

Very true. As long as you have a purpase in your training you can work by your self for ever and keep geting better. A Teacher will point you in the right direction, bu t it is up tp to you to practice, practice practice. Nuchaku is all about manipulation of the weapon.

[Shyguy]

Thank you everybody. from the information that I have gained I reackon I should definately start with foam ones and then possbly wooden ones soon after. Cheers peopel.

[RubyMoon]

There are really just a handful of useful techniques with the nunchaku. These techniques include a few strikes, blocks, and weapon control. Everything else is just flash and Hollywood stuff, good for tournaments and demos and very little else.

Learn the basics, if you really feel the need, but then move on to something useful, like staff. Most people don't carry nunchucks around with them (or shouldn't anyway), but you can find a big stick practically anywhere.

[gojuman]

There are really just a handful of useful techniques with the nunchaku. These techniques include a few strikes, blocks, and weapon control. Everything else is just flash and Hollywood stuff, good for tournaments and demos and very little else


I would agree with this statement, only if you have the hands of a giant. The nunchaku is one of the most versitale and complex weapons in the Okinawan group of weapons. True, as a purest myself I agree that the Hollyood stuff often displayed at tournements give the nunchaku a side-show and baton twirling conotation, but realistic study of this fabulous weapon demonstrates otherwise.
Stay away from dojos that promote the practice of the nunchaku too early in martial arts training. IN my ryu, you can not begin the study unless you are at least brown belt. And even after that phase the bulk of the training only gets serious after black belt. This weapon in too complicated and intricate to be taken lightly and many mcdojos alow their students to play with the fasinating foam twirly thing to keep them paying their high mcdojo prices.
Get real!

[#1 Stutta]

Originally posted by LilBunnyRabbit
And the original axes were made of stone. Yet steel axes are superior to stone ones. What's your point?

I'm sorry. I shoud've added "IMO"

[Mig]

Get pro tuition, as I have watched with a sickening feeling in ma gut a compatriot whack herself on the noggin and go down like a keening sack o' potatoes. Having said that, do don't learn nunchucks as much as they teach you. That is they teach you not to hit yourself, see above opening statement, it only happened the once. And you will undoubtably hit yourself at some point. As for material I have only used wood so I can't really say otherwise but I would advise away from chain as they are seldom the right length to use for the locks and chokes that come with the system. :)

[RickLiebespach]

I would go with some very light ones, say a broom stick or a dowel. Attach a strong nylon cord to eyelets screwed in the ends.

I haven't read all the replies, but I can't believe that this style of construction would be advocated! Does anyone here really believe that eyelets screwed into the ends would hold up? They are sure to pull out and the stick not being help will go flying! You would be much safer to drill small holes in the end and thread your cord thru the holes... and do not place your knot in the direct line of stress. Also, taper or sand smooth the hole edges.

Rick Liebespach (Uechi-ryu shodan)