Breath and intent

[ladyhawk]

Do you train your breath in accordance with your intent?

-Breathing in on a pulling/defensive technique will give you a
"softer" more yielding hand. Exhaling will give you a harder hand.
If a "block" is meant as an attack or a break, train it with an exhale.

Thoughts anyone?

[Saz]

Interesting idea Ladyhawk. I take it you mean that by either inhaling or exhaling on a technique will effect how you hard/soft you intend the technique to be on impact?

When we train, we breathe out on our strikes, and inhale as we bring them back in. The idea is to inhale quietly while preparing to attack, so the oppopnent can't hear it, then exhale on the attack, loudly enough so they would hear it. We're also told to breathe in on attack, say a punch to the stomach, as breathing in tenses the mucsles.

A lot of exerszies in kyoksuhinkai are aimed at improving breathing. Correct breathing improves the mind and body, helping to you focus on the technqiues. The ibuki breathing is a big part of this.. the entire body is tensed through the breathing, in preperation for an attack.

[ladyhawk]

Breathing in on a block allows the energy of the impact to disperse more easily as you go with it instead of force meeting force. If the block is intended to be a strike, exhaling will give you a harder hand.

We were taught to exhale when taking a hit.

If the entire body is tensed on impact wouldn't that slow down your counter attack? We are faster when relaxed.

What benefit is there to your opponent hearing your breath?

[morphus]

In our training we ki-hap(loud yell) on techniques. This could be a block(or deflection) or a strike/punch/kick; to ki-hap you have to breath out making the action positive. When performing patterns we ki-hap on the first and then last tech' - on a combination on just the last tech'.

[Tseek Choi]

Hi LadyHawk,
Breathing cordinated with movement is an important part of training the body, especially in the early years, however at higher levels the breathing should be natural, irrespective of whether the body contracts or expands.
By inhaling prior to the strike & exhale, you are preventing your body from moving naturally. This results in telegraphing the technique, but more importantly it restricts the natural flow of chi within the body.

The intent is the most important aspect to me.
Prior to the actual movement the mind/intent "Yi" will drive the spirit "shen" to focus the intrinsic energy "Qi". This will create the force "jing" that is utilised in the technique.
In an art such as Xing Yi where this is the objective of the system, the first years of study will involve the coordination of movement and breath, but as training continues a more natural rythmic breathing will be adopted until a state of complete natural breathing is reached irrespective of which technique or movement is being performed.

Colin.......................

[ladyhawk]

We do a kiai (spirit shout) when attacking.
Your voice is a powerful weapon and an excellent distraction.
Although we don't do this all the time.
Maybe this is what Kyokushin_girl meant by her loud exhale.

[ladyhawk]

Oh Colin, you have grabbed the lady's attention and make some very good points. I'm working on bringing breath, intent, proper focus and correct external technique into harmony in an attempt to deliver the power of my internal energy with my strike.
One of the key components is relaxation and sacrificing power to gain power.
I'm interested in any thoughts you may have on this subject

[ladyhawk]

Here is a good website with a lot of resources on breath and breathing. I haven't been thru the whole thing yet.

http://1st-spot.net/topic_breathing.html

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I guess it depends on the instructor, but ours tends to teach us to just breathe normally. Interestingly when we get new people coming in they do tend to breathe out on attack, and in on defense. It makes rather a nice telegraph.

[Saz]

Originally posted by ladyhawk
We do a kiai (spirit shout) when attacking.
Your voice is a powerful weapon and an excellent distraction.
Although we don't do this all the time.
Maybe this is what Kyokushin_girl meant by her loud exhale.

Thats exactly what I meant. The exhale should be loud enough to distract your opponent for a split second whilst you attack. Like you, we don't do this all the time; so when we don't do it, we are told to breathe in the way I described.

[Darzeka]

We are taught three types of ki-ai.

There is one from the stomach, most easily found when utilising an Ooooooo noise in the ki-ai. To make it easier to use we place a 'h' sound in front of it.

The next one from the chest, using an Eeeeeee sound. Again the 'h' is placed in front to give it depth and power.

The last is from the throat, an Aaaaaaaa sound, from the back of the throat. The 'h' again is added.

These three are used in different situations depending on the body's emphasis during the movement. I haven't experimented much in which sound works best where but am currently working on it.

When we do combinations we ki-ai to a certain extent on every strike.
A ki-ai isn't nesseccarily an exhalation of all your breath in one shout. It is possible to do a short ki-ai followed by a large one if doing two hit combinations. The same can be said to infinite degree until your run out of breath and pass out.

There are also a few different ways you can combine ki-ai's.
Firstly there is the combining of the different sounds. After working out which ki-ai works best with which movement you can change which sound you make depending on what effect you are looking for.
Then you can change the emphasis on the sounds. You can make certain ki-ai's louder and more power generating for different strikes.
And there are two ways of combining the ki-ais together. One way has a pause between each sound coming out like
Ha Ha Heeeeeee.
The other way is to make a continuos shout with a reitieration with each strike - HeeHeHoooooo.

As for breathing we just breathe deeply and naturally and when you strike you should be able to ki-ai from anywhere in your breath.


I have found that since defining my ki-ais more I am getting better results with them and my breathing is more fluid and relaxed during our strike intensive excersises.

[ladyhawk]

Darzeka,
Very interesting post. I never realized there were different types of kiai. This certainly brings into focus breath control
and intent. Can you perhaps point me in the right direction
so that I can explore this further.

[Freeform]

Generally the point of kiai is to generate more power and exhale the air from your body in preparation of a counterstike. If it scares the s*** out of your opponent thats a bonus.

As to aborbing blows the aim is to exhale slightly before struck which is very hard and quite a bizzare philosophy, if you saw it coming and all ;)

The body shouldn't be tense to take a blow as this can cause a lot of surface damage and pain, there has to be some give (the branch that does not bend idea). Conversely without some tension your gonna get a lot of internal damage. Come to the crunch, go tense, better to have bruises and pain than a malfunctioning kidney.

Thanx

[Darzeka]

I've only just been told about the three ki-ais recently but I have found that most of my hand strikes are more comfortable with that "Ha" sound.
I have a feeling that the "Hoo" ki-ai (which is a derivative of the sound you make when pulling something heavy - ie a car with the aid of a rope) Will be more beneficial with more kicking than anything else but don't really know.

Just have play around with them and see what feels right. It would probably be a good idea to do this on a punching bag so you can feel the power difference.

Ki-ai's for blocking are a good thing when someone is coming in with full power strike and you need a little bit extra to get it out of the way. And this will also cause them lots of pain if you hit a part of the offending limb that hasn't been conditioned.

[darlph]

In training, I have found that when you listen to those around you, you will find that very few of them actually kia! kiap! How about ay" aya! How ever you want to spell. You usually breath out on a strike as everyone seems to agree. It helps to make power perhaps along with hip drive and if you add the loud breath it will often throw the opponent off guard or just let you release the body tension along with the strike. New students are usually embarrassed to kia! because it is strange to them. The other thing this brathing control has to offer, is the reflex to exhale when being hit. Let some nail you in the solar plexis while you're holding you breath. OOOOOOOOOOOOOH!

[Freeform]

One thing you really have to watch out for though, is when you kiai that the other guy doesn't counter real fast and pop you in the mouth whilst its open, ouch!

[darlph]

Hopefully,you have just popped him in the mouth and thrown another technique right after that. I think I don't like to get hit...

[LilBunnyRabbit]

You don't really want him to hit you in the mouth whether its open or shut to be honest. In fact you don't really want them to hit you at all.

[Andrew Green]

Yes, of course you don't want to get hit.

But if you get hit and your mouth is open, there is a really good chance you'll get your jaw broken.

I prefer to just keep my mouth closed rather then risk a broken jaw.

[darlph]

Isn't that what you're supposed to do ....keep your teeth together as you breathe out? I guess those that get jaw broken will have to wait for another day to fight. And while they wait to heal, practice weaving, steeping, blocking, and staying out of harms reach.

[Andy Murray]

I was taught to exhale forcefully on a strike. The theory being that you don't want to be hit in the guts or chest while you are carrying a lungfull. While I feel that this is reasonable advice, I think it was really intended to avoid habitually holding your breath while throwing techniques.
In Combat, exhalation was promoted through the nose, in contradiction to our traditional practice.......in through the nose, out through the mouth.

Just my 2,000 shekels worth.

[darlph]

It makes sense both ways I guess. But have you ever thought about how much of our lungs we really use everytime we breathe? Not much really. Whne I do breathing exercises to help make my cardio better, I get yawning, but when I stand up and move around I seem to have a little more cardio. Of course due to a case of bad health the last couple of years, I'm just happy to be able to breathe regularly again. Guys, watch all that fast food cholestrol and sodas!

[Melanie]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
I was taught to exhale forcefully on a strike. The theory being that you don't want to be hit in the guts or chest while you are carrying a lungfull. While I feel that this is reasonable advice, I think it was really intended to avoid habitually holding your breath while throwing techniques.
In Combat, exhalation was promoted through the nose, in contradiction to our traditional practice.......in through the nose, out through the mouth.

Just my 2,000 shekels worth.

This is exactly how I was taught and for the same reason as well.

Each to their own I suppose, its down to how you were trained and what you feel comfortable with in the end. Until I am shown another way or given a better reason to breath differently, I've got enough to contend with trying to learn my next kata! ;)

[Tseek Choi]

Originally posted by ladyhawk
Oh Colin, you have grabbed the lady's attention and make some very good points. I'm working on bringing breath, intent, proper focus and correct external technique into harmony in an attempt to deliver the power of my internal energy with my strike.
One of the key components is relaxation and sacrificing power to gain power.
I'm interested in any thoughts you may have on this subject

Hi ladyHawk,
If you feel that you are loosing the external strength in your techniques, then you are definitely on the right track to developing your chi.
It is sooo hard to shake off the external physical strength, but once you do you really will discover your true inner strength.
Try performing your kata really slowly.
Say hold each stance/movement for 30sec. When your arms are up they will get tired, this is when the connective tissue will take over from the muscles.
Or if you practice chi gung, then hold the basic Zhan Zhuang positions for at least 5mins each. so say a 30min excerise.
These types of excerises must be performed with total relaxation & natural breathing, keeping the mouth closed at all times.
A wise man once said "The nose is for breathing. The mouth is for eating & speaking. If we were meant to breath through our mouths it would be lined with hair."

I'd be interested to know what type of training you do to help coordinate breath, intent and movement.
I know only a little about isshinryu, but I do know it is much closer to the source then many other Karate styles, so i'm sure you will find a great deal of internal training witin your own style.

Colin.......................

[ladyhawk]

Hi Colin,
Are you familiar with Chinkuchi? That is my goal.
I posted an article about Chinkuchi awhile ago.
It is in the thread archives on the 4th or 5th page of...
> General Topics > General Discussion > Chinkuchi
Check it out when time allows.

I do not feel as though I'm losing my external strength but
I want tap into and improve the potential of my inner strength.

This is an outside interest from my regular training. I'll have to
get back to you on the training methods I'm using to bring all
of this into harmony. This is not an easy topic to explain in words.
Ladyhawk

[Big Bizz]

Thats exactly what I meant. The exhale should be loud enough to distract your opponent for a split second whilst you attack. Like you, we don't do this all the time; so when we don't do it, we are told to breathe in the way I described.

But would that not telegraph your moves or strikes to your opponent?

I mean most decent martial artists or even a experienced pub fighter might take a hit or two figure this out and then set you up.

Sean.......

[TkdWarrior]

intresting guys ...
normally we breathe out while attacking...but later on we wer trained never to show our intent...even with our breathing...
it's hard to control ur breathing with ur aderaline flow... but takes time... it's worth it...
andy hav put it already if u ever got it hit with lung full or when breathing in it's much pain...try it enhale and hav someone punching u...(my teacher always notice this and hit when we r inhaling so it's kind a nessary for us to not show our intent)
we even hav to practice fighting without any expression...we only show expression when oppn't is in dire straits only to hav him peeved in pants ;)
-TkdWarrior-

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I'm not sure if I've posted already on this or not. We're trained to breathe normally throughout, same as when you are jogging. Its great when people come to join from other styles where they've been taught to breathe out as a distraction before each attack. Not only does it telegraph but it also tenses up the diaphragm, and the general waist area, sometimes even reaching up to the shoulders. Plus it sounds hilarious.

[ladyhawk]

Kindda like Darth Vador doing Sanchin Kata, huh?

[oneil357]

Has anyone out there ever had the "wind" knocked out of them?

That is one of the many importent reason to exhale upon executing an attack or recieving a blow to avoid getting the wind knocked out of you ,we train are breathing so we do this without having to make a concious decision it becomes natural, If a fighter can see he cant fight, if he cant breath he cant fight! dont