[Choi Kwang Do] CKD Black Belt Levels

[Scaramouch]

As has been discussed on this forum CKD has a relatively large number (18) of Kup grades before BB. Most TMAs have around nine.

I was surprised to hear though that all of the BB degree levels also have about 9 "sub-levels"? Is this true and do you have to pay for these grades? Get new certificates? What is the required training time in between these sub-levels?

Most TMAs that I am aware of have a technical syllabus up to 5th Dan/Degree. Beyond that higher degrees tend to be based on association politics, i.e. how many schools you have, what level you are at in the association etc. etc. Can anyone tell me how CKD operates? It would be interesting to know if there is a technical syllabus beyond 5th Degree, but I guess we are getting into unknown territory here, with only GM Choi and Master P being 5th Degree or above in CKD?

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Beyond fifth degree I honestly don't know if there's a syllabus, but I know that there are formal patterns, combinations and speed drills all the way up to ninth. As for the sub levels, yes, unfortunately it is tue. Not something I'm happy about since it makes it hard for me to afford to grade, but I honestly think that the training is worth it.

[amiller127]

There is a full syllabus up to 5th Dan. Once you hit fith dan at the moment there is no syllabus. There wasnt a syllabus for 4th Dan until recently though. So I wouldnt be surprised if they managed to do something for the master ranks one day.

There are quite a few people at Master level in CKD. You have Master Kendall Jones in New Zealand, Master Baron in the UK, The head of India is a Master Instructor. Master Memot in Russia recently graded to 6th Dan. We have Master Rangal in Kansas who is 6th Dan also. Although, one thing that all of the Masters have in common is that they attained most of their rank in other arts and converted to CKD. In the UK we should be seeing Keith Banfield, Nigel Brophy and Hugh Harper approching Master Status in the next few years. Probably sooner than later. In the USA there are numerous 4th Dans and some should be due for Master soon. Oh and the head of Australia should be 5th Dan in the next 3 years.

As for the tags. Yes we divide the Il Dan syllabus into 9 sections. And you do pay for the testing. But, I personally prefered it to what we used to do. After getting your Il Dan you used to have to wait 2 years to grade to second dan. During that time many students got bored and left looking for other challenges. I founf it quite hard to stay motivated to test at that time. So one good thing is that the tags give you some challenge during the period between Dan gradings. The tags at Il dan are tested every 3 months.

Then you get to Ee Dan and there are less tags. 6 i think? These are tested every 6 months until you get to Sam Dan. From there the tag system is a bit strange and is worked depending on your region. As only 4th Dans can take the testing for the 3rd Dan tags, if your in the area where you dont have a 4th Dan, such as Wales, you dont have to take the tags. You can wait your time and test for 4th with GMC. The tags in 3rd Dan are meant to be taken once a year and there are 4 tags.

They have just introduced a fourth dan syllabus. Not sure whats in it though. Not high enough yet to have been exposed to it. Should be due for 4th Dan next summer so I can tell more about it then. I dont think there are any tags at 4th Dan though. And if you want to test to 4th Dan you have to test under GMC himself. I dont think that even Master Pereira can certify anyone higher than 3rd dan brown without GMC attending. But he does attend all of the testings for those going for 4th Dan + and had a lot of input with the candidates.

Hope that helps!

[YODA]

Little carrots every 3 months to keep Black Belts interested enough to stick around?

Ye Godz! What a crock!

[morphus]

LOL - subtle Yoda, subtle LOL:D

[YODA]

Thank you thank you - very restrained compared to what I was actually thinking!

:Angel:

[Scaramouch]

I was a little surprised to hear about the BB sub-levels and do feel slightly uneasy about the idea of nine or six levels which have to be certified and paid for. A few points:

1. After +4 years training, a minimum of 2x a week, to get a CKD BB and after 18 Kup grades I am convinced that the student has shown a very strong commitment to CKD and that they are highly motivated to have got that far. Do they really need more gradings (or “little carrots” according to Yoda) every 3 months to prove themselves?

2. On the other hand, I can also see the argument for further development within the BB levels and it is good that a syllabus is there – however, a more practical way of using these sub-level IMO is that they be awarded free (no certification) by the school’s chief instructor. Then at the changes in dan/degree you would be expected to be formally graded externally, to maintain association standards.

3. Is it possible to skip these BB sub-levels in CKD? For example, could you go from 1st Dan to 2nd Dan after just training hard for +3-4 years, if you didn’t want to do the sub-levels, by being graded by GMC? That is with the proviso that your instructor supports you, and believes that you meet the required standard.

It seems to me if you are talented enough to get through the entire CKD grades, as they currently stand, up to say 4th or 5th Dan then you’ll have lots of bits of paper to file away – I make it about +40 certificates. IMO it kind of devalues the concept.