Is this even real?

[PlasmaShock]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBRw3-_yMTE

This style looks really fake lol.

[BSR]

What exactly looks "fake" about it?

I don't take Sin Moo, so my Hapkido doesn't have many of those kicks. They look like traditional taekkyon kicks to me. Some of them do look pretty strange, but I imagine they have pretty specific applications and aren't necessarily ones you would just throw out randomly in sparring.

[slipthejab]

Fake or not... pumping your guard around your crotch (the girl) or keeping your guard around your chest or mid section... is a fantastic way to get a nice fat punch in the gob.

Jeez what a bad habit to instill in people. :p

[Moi]

If my 13 year old son posted a video of kicking that poor he'd be doing a hundred of each kick as a punishment. As Slip says, where's the guard? Not to mention power, balance and not having to judge the kicking distance. Very poor.

[piratebrido]

If my 13 year old son posted a video of kicking that poor he'd be doing a hundred of each kick as a punishment. As Slip says, where's the guard? Not to mention power, balance and not having to judge the kicking distance. Very poor.

I think you should make him do it anyway so that he learns the lesson that it is not okay for people to post rubbish kicks on the internet!

[Moi]

I think you should make him do it anyway so that he learns the lesson that it is not okay for people to post rubbish kicks on the internet!


As a warning? You're right I will! :D

[donb]

I couldn't get myself to finish watching all 25 kicks. Very poor delivery... even if those kicks have real application they should try showing better quality.

[Moi]

I couldn't get myself to finish watching all 25 kicks. Very poor delivery... even if those kicks have real application they should try showing better quality.

I couldn't get to the end either :rolleyes:

[piratebrido]

Neither could I! Wonder if anyone did. If someone did can you tell us what happened? Did the guy get the girl in the end? I like a happy ending.

[Moi]

She left him for a while circa kick 20, I can't blame her really, you really do need to see that kick and please tell me what's going on? Anyway I digress, they get back together after a short seperation and end with the guy enforcing his dominance over the fair maiden, the get married once she becomes of age and go on to live hap...............................................

[psbn matt]

i found it very hard to spot the difference between quite a few of those (porly done) kicks.
and why did she keep touching the floor?
not a great advert for that style of hapkido

[Hapuka]

and why did she keep touching the floor?
not a great advert for that style of hapkido

Apparently its a part of that style to put one hand on the ground for some of the kicks. Heres the list of the basic 25 kicks the style does, I found while scrounging around. Taken from zdragon.bitbytenibble.com/SinMoo.

SIN MOO 25 BASIC KICKS

1] SCOOP KICK TO SHIN

2] SCORPION KICK

3] OUTSIDE HEEL KICK

4] SIDE KICK

5] INSIDE CRESCENT KICK

6] OUTSIDE CRESCENT KICK

7] ROUNDHOUSE KICK

8] FRONT THRUST KICK—UNDER CHIN

9] AXE KICK

10] FRONT PUSHING HEEL KICK

11] LOW ROUNDHOUSE

12] DOWNWARD OUTSIDE CRESCENT—X STEP, HITS LEG

13] FRONT UPWARD SLICING KICK

14] FRONT PUSHING KICK—TO HEAD

15] HORIZONTAL SLICING OUTSIDE CRESCENT

16] SIDE KICK—TOUCHING GROUND

17] BACK SIDE KICK—TOUCHING GROUND

18] BACK LOWER SPINNING SLICING KICK

19] UPWARD KNEE

20] DIAGONAL KNEE TO THIGH—X STEP, GRAB SHOULDER

21] THRUSTING KNEE KICK

22] CIRCULAR SCOOP KICK—AGAINST WALL

23] INVERTED ROUNDHOUSE KICK—“POPCORN KICK”

24] UPWARD SLAP KICK—X STEP, TO EXTENDED LEG

25] SLAP KICK TO BACK OF HEAD—CROSS X STEP

I also found this as well. :)

9 main rules in Sin Moo Hapkido

1] Healthy food

2] Healthy sex

3] Good meditation

4] Control your anger

5] Control your sadness

6] Don't be greedy

7] Water control

8] Air control

9] Sunshine control

I don't think you should take this style seriously. ;)

[Moosey]

They look like traditional taekkyon kicks to me.
I imagine these guys might have something to say about that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrdHrNiJ5Ls

[BSR]

I imagine these guys might have something to say about that!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrdHrNiJ5Ls

Note:

I imagine they have pretty specific applications and aren't necessarily ones you would just throw out randomly in sparring.

I'm not defending the kicks either. Like I said, not many of those look familiar to my style of Hapkido. I know there's at least one Sin Moo practioner on the boards, so maybe he can enlighten us on the accuracy of the demonstration.

[BSR]

I don't think you should take this style seriously. ;)

Sin Moo Hapkido was founded by Ji Han Jae, one of the main founders of Hapkido.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_Bt29btUtk

With Bruce Lee in 'Game of Death':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STeJKdP6EmU

[Hapuka]

Sin Moo Hapkido was founded by Ji Han Jae, one of the main founders of Hapkido.

With Bruce Lee in 'Game of Death':

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STeJKdP6EmU

A gold belt?

Now Ive seen it all. :D

[donb]

9 main rules in Sin Moo Hapkido

2] Healthy sex


I'll only agree with this one.

[Chris from CT]

Although the demonstration was lack luster, the style of Sin Moo Hapkido is the later form of Hapkido created by Ji, Han-jae which can be quite effective. Ji, Han-jae was a student of Choi, Yong-sul and is probably one of the most known Hapkido practitioners in the world today. Without any argument he is one of the top men to promote Hapkido worldwide and probably 90 percent of you can trace your Hapkido lineage through him.

Don't blow off an entire style because of a poorly done video.

(yeah unfortunately, I couldn't get through the whole video either.)

[donb]

I did train under one of the students of Master Choi and i don't think i kicked that bad. The funny part about it is my instructor has a bummed leg from an accident and a hip replacement on the other - he can't hardly walk, can't even kick, but a very good instructor.
And the thing about touching the ground when kicking is more capoeira, but capoiera is more fluid than what they were doing.
A lot of times instructors have a hard time imparting their skill level to students. They may be the best of what they do but not good teachers or can not correct bad habits at an early stage of training (i'm not directing this to anybody in particular) and the quality/standard goes down as this students become teachers themselves.

[timex]

I practice Sin Moo Hapkido----No comment on the video that has not already
been expressed. :bang: I do not recognize the kicks in the other post--without seeing them. We do have one spinning heel kick hand touching the ground,
the application is if someone pushes you , and you turn and fall forward--
hope this explains it.

The 9 main rules in Hapkido--NEVER HEARD OF THEM AND AM SURE THEY
WOULD NEVER BE PART OF OUR HAPKIDO SCHOOL!!!!!! :yeleyes:

[Hapuka]

Ah right, thanks for clearing that up.

[timex]

an instructor may not excel in kicking----
but a good instructor will be able to teach a student how to kick correctly, and be
the best they can be---there really is no excuse for a student doing sloppy kicks,
if they are putting any effort into their training!!
I notice the student is a red belt---hands s/b up--and not in fighting stance.
This is not the kind of kicks we do.

[Coges]

That was quite painful to watch. If your kicks are that sloppy, why make a video of yourself and post it for everyone to see. I don't see how they could even teach those to students without the students being crap as well.

[klaasb]

I am not in sinmoo hapkido, but even I have heard of the nine rules and 25 kicks of sinmoo hapkido. Most of the kicks in the video I am familiar with (they certainly aren't traditional taekkyon kicks), I don't practice/teach all of them but have encountered them at more than one point in my career.

Every body is conviently big mouthing the video from behind their keyboard. Where is the youtube video with you properly showing some kicks??
What happened to martial artist showing respect? I think the people in the video are helped a lot more by some positive advise.

[American HKD]

Greetings,

It's obvious that the person who posted never came across these kicks and most importantly doesn't understand what he's looking at!

I can understand some of these kicks seem very exotic and are not the everyday day run of the mill Karate type kicks that everyone's a custom to, but as a Sin Moo Instructor, practioner, and student of GM Ji I can say they're all very good kicks with realistic applications and would open up your eyes in so many ways!

[Seth T.]

I have been learning Sin Moo hapkido as well, and I can attest to what Stuart says about the practicality of the kicks. That being said, they did have some interesting interpretations on some of them, and were not always targeting the same way I have been taught by my instructor (and we definitely don't make those weird hand motions after a kick either). But for the most part the kicks looked pretty good, she maybe seemed a little tense or nervous though.

[Moi]

But for the most part the kicks looked pretty good.

You really do need to raise your standards ;)

[Seth T.]

Well, what I meant by good was that they were at least basically correct, as in trying to hit the target the kick is intended for and stuff like that. Like I said, she seemd really tense, I think it was making her kicks look stiff and choppy instead of letting her body motion just flow with it like it should have.

[klaasb]

I really wonder why they go back to that 'karate position' after every kick. It is almost as if I can hear her say 'Ush' ;)
My guess would be that the teacher (the guy in the video??) probably has a background in another martial art and uses the ready stance to give the basic execution a little more edge (although i don't think it works out that well, judging by the comments here ;)).

[GreenDragonHKD]

I am also a Sin Moo instructor and came up thru the ranks in the old KHA organization. I will agree that this video isn't the best example of the 25 basic HKD kicks in Sin Moo...we don't chamber our hands like that at all, and I'm not gonna bash the people demonstrating but their balance isn't very good either, that being said,, the concept behind the video is sound...my question is to people who haven't seen these kind of kicks....as Klaas has stated most of these 25 kicks are the "basic" kicks to most "legitimate" styles of HKD, whether it is the KHA, the KHF, the IHF, WHF, Hoi Jeon Moo Sool, Sin Moo, Jung Ki Kwan, Jin Jung Kwan, etc....I just basically listed the main HKD orgs. in the world that have their links to the beginnings of HKD as it was first conceived of in Korea...IF you are a member that practices with any of these orgs. I am willing to bet that most of these kicks are practiced in your dojang.....probably a lot better I hope but I know you have seen almost every one of them...

also someone copied and pasted info from my website...zdragon.bitbytenibble.com.. and then questioned whether it is real..no worries and no problem.... let me assure you that what we do is real HKD....I have everyone of my geup ranks and all of my dahn ranks up to 3rd degree black belt thru the KHA and WHF, and I have a certificate of appointment to teach GM Harold Whalen's style of HKD...Moo Ye Kwan....guys who know him and me know that this kind of stuff wasn't bought but earned thru sweat, blood, and perseverence.....I also have my Dahn ranks of 4th and 5th degree black belt thru Doju Nim Ji Han Jae and Sin Moo HKD...IF you don't know about him or these organizations then you need to do some research because if you state that you study HKD but don't recognize anything I have just typed then I would imagine either you have not been in HKD very long at all or you are not actually practicing legitamate HKD.....Ji Han Jae is one of the original founders of the art you folks say you study, he was one of the original members that trained the South Korean Secret Service, Presidential Bodyguards, and the American and South Vietnamese Special Forces back in the 1960's and 70's..and most of the presidents of the organizations I stated earlier are from that same era and had their hands and feet in this type of history also.....if you need some good history and photo documentation from this time frame go to JinPalKim.com, he is also a HKD legend and has a bunch of photo's from those days....in closing let me say it is good to question and analyze, but also do it with respect and maybe some knowledge of what you are talking about first....if you do some research and then state your opinion I believe you will be received with more respect and authenticity.....if you all have any questions about Sin Moo HKD or some of the older Korean organizations I am here to help as is Klaas, Chris and Stuart....we have all been around the HKD block for many many years and can help explain some of the confusion.....
Michael Tomlinson

[Jointlock]

What's so bad about the 9 rules? Basically it's saying that anything in excess is bad for you, eat healthy, and control your emotions. I don't study Sin Moo but I do think of Grandmaster Ji as one of Hapkido's most influential people. I am assuming this is more of Guidelines then rules that you are tested on.

What's wrong with striving to be a better person?

As far as the video goes. Could have done without the music. I don't know why they keep returning to the ready position I don't think that is a very good habit to have. I'm less impressed when the instructor kicks. I've done quite a few of these kicks and I have a few of the supported kicks in the curriculum. I'm not sure how much stock I put in the kicks that are designed to strike pressure points on the body. I have not practiced them enough to be proficient. The leg ones I think are useful.

[GreenDragonHKD]

I messed up the GM Jin Pal Kim site...sorry guys...it is jinpalhapkido.com

Michael Tomlinson
Green Dragon Hapkido Dojang
zdragon.bitbytenibble.com

[nj_howard]

Hi Mike T., nice to hear from you again.

What Mike T. said is well worth listening to. It appears that these could be Sin Moo students who decided to post something on Youtube on their own. Several people have pointed out that their kicking skills could be improved, no need to belabor that.

But, as a couple of others have said, don't conclude from this Youtube clip that Sin Moo isn't "real". Ji Han Jae, as Chris La Cava pointed out, is probably the root of at least 90% of all the legitimate Hapkido schools in the world - if not more than that. He learned Yawara directly from the founder, Choi Yong Sul, and, together with a colleague, added the kicking repertoire, meditation and philosophy that most people recognize as part of modern Hapkido.

As Mike said, it's best to do a little research before rushing to unsubstantiated conclusions.

[Moi]

But, as a couple of others have said, don't conclude from this Youtube clip that Sin Moo isn't "real". .


Don't worry we all realize that those with least to show tend to be the ones posting on youtube and the like.

[GreenDragonHKD]

Howard,
good to hear your'e still kicking in NJ brother.....hey there are some good dudes on here, I didn't know about this forum, cool place....

Martial Dad I know what you mean about you tube....15 seconds of fame instead of the 15 minutes Andy Warhol prescribed to....

Michael Tomlinson

[laz001]

I have never seen the point of concentrating on kicks some much...it just seems so...TKDish! Surely there is no need to have so many 'distinct' types of kicks! Why not have just a few kicks, and then show them how they are applied in different situations? So many of those 25 were the same kick applied differently, and half are just too impractical!

AS for 'basic' kicks, this is what I call basic kicks! They all use individual concepts and can all be varied in height and fancyness.

Front kick
Round kick
Side kick
Back Kick
Axe Kick
Cresent Kick
Spinning kick (with heel, not crescent)
Stamp kick (can't remeber the name, like using the sole to the shin/knee, toes up pointing outwards)

Anything beyond that (adding angles, spins, jumps) is just variation of the same theme.

[BSR]

AS for 'basic' kicks, this is what I call basic kicks! They all use individual concepts and can all be varied in height and fancyness.

Front kick
Round kick
Side kick
Back Kick
Axe Kick
Cresent Kick
Spinning kick (with heel, not crescent)
Stamp kick (can't remeber the name, like using the sole to the shin/knee, toes up pointing outwards)

Anything beyond that (adding angles, spins, jumps) is just variation of the same theme.

This essentially describes the kicking at our school, with the only addition being the 'hook kick.'

[GreenDragonHKD]

Actually almost all those kicks are different than what you can see...it is impossible to explain on the internet or thru a video....but...they have different targets, positions, and body alignment..the foot and leg placement are totally different so they really aren't variations but I understand what you are saying...without being exposed to them I can see how you could draw that conclusion.....they are far from TKDish and as a matter of fact the people who created those kicks were never in a TKD organization ever in their lives...that being said....I personally focus more on grappling and throwing, knives and guns in my dojang and focus the most on our low kicking instead of high kicking............

Jung Shin Hapkido...hey I went to your website and checked it out....26 years old and you started your own "style" of Hapkido... that seems a little young to have the art "figured out"...how long did you actually practice and were exposed to traditional HKD under one continuous authentic HKD Master before you came up with the Jung Shin HKD idea???
Michael Tomlinson

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Mst. Tomlinson, to be fair, laz is not the founder of Jung Shin Hapkido, you apparently missed the birthday of the founder, Marc Jones being born in 1974. Laz is a student.

No comment one way or the other about that, just thought you should get the person you were addressing straight.

[klaasb]

Damn, I was born in 1973 and I still haven't started my own style ... is there something wrong with me?

[Jointlock]

Damn, I was born in 1973 and I still haven't started my own style ... is there something wrong with me?

Well concerning this no. But, we all do a martial art that teaches to repeatedly throw ourselves to the ground on purpose. So I think there is something a little wrong with all of us.

[GreenDragonHKD]

Sorry about that laz,, I must of read the bio wrong...my bad....so is the information that the "founder" is 26 years old and he is Marc Jones, or is laz 26 years old and is a student of the founder who is older than 26??...I'm confused...sorry for the mix up...

Michael Tomlinson

[donb]

Actually almost all those kicks are different than what you can see...it is impossible to explain on the internet or thru a video....but...they have different targets, positions, and body alignment..the foot and leg placement are totally different so they really aren't variations but I understand what you are saying...without being exposed to them I can see how you could draw that conclusion.....they are far from TKDish and as a matter of fact the people who created those kicks were never in a TKD organization ever in their lives...that being said....I personally focus more on grappling and throwing, knives and guns in my dojang and focus the most on our low kicking instead of high kicking............

Michael Tomlinson
I do both TKD and HKD and i agree with you on the kicks. They're different in approach, delivery, and targets

[donb]

Damn, I was born in 1973 and I still haven't started my own style ... is there something wrong with me?
I think if you have been brought traditionally and have established a stable bond with your instructors to the point that they actually earned your respect and not just plain listening/blind obedience, you'll have a tendency to carry on the knowledge given to you as a tribute of their legacy than forming your own style.
As to new styles (hybrid arts), what else do they have to offer that's not already been done. Each MA is unique and combining them in you as a person makes a complete martial artist, but to take a little piece of each one and make them yours and claiming it to be your own style is something else. I guess i'm old for looking at this differently and (i was born in 1966) i haven't started my own style either.

[GreenDragonHKD]

I feel the same way....I call my dojang GreenDragon HKD Dojang but I teach the HKD I was taught by GM Whalen and Doju Nim Ji Han Jae....of course I add my own spin to it...I like to grapple and use weapons more than high kicking a lot....but that is the part I feel is akin to the word "art" in Martial Arts....focusing on certain aspects of the art as they pertain to your personality, beliefs, and body make up doesn't mean you have "created" a new style of HKD, it just means you like those areas more than others...I have heard Doju Nim Ji say to us so many times while we were working out that you should take his HKD and make it your HKD....and what he means is personalize and customize it to your body, but you haven't really created anything "new" actually quite the opposite, it's like you have recycled the art more than anything else...and that's not a bad thing....BUT...to do this you have to actually study and practice with legitimate people and practice long enough to learn the techniques to the point of reflex, I think once you do this you understand the true art....
Michael Tomlinson

[donb]

I think each instructor/master/teacher, although great people, like everybody else, have limitations. What they teach or share with us is limited to their knowledge and exposure. The art or any art evolves in time as students become masters/teachers "adding their own spin" to it but maintaining the core principles/teachings. This is how most arts survive the test of time and keeping abreast with changes in the world. We no longer jump high to kick people off horses (just motorcycles), or run around in battle armour, preparing for war. Battleground has changed and there's a lot of MA out there, therefore, one's art has to learn to adapt and counter other arts (unlike years ago in certain areas, majority knows karate so you train against karate). I still don't believe in creating your own style but rather preserving the old, using it as a foundation, and modifying it to adapt to the changes in society, respecting the people that shared their knowledge to me.

[GreenDragonHKD]

Exactly....damn that was a good post bro!!
Michael Tomlinson

[timex]

Couldn't get the quote to work (sorry about that)

Post #36---couldn't agree more,add hook kick and groin kick, and there you have the basic kicks, as taught in our school.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone, thats not my intention, but Hapkido is a practical method of self defense, and is a wonderful art--it is real.