A trick knee and doctors that fart around, what next?

[Hapuka]

Since March this year or coming close to last year I butsted some of the ligaments in my right leg doing ITF Taekwon-do during my mock grading for my green belt. Disgusted and gutted that the teachers at my old club couldn't adapt anything for me at the time becasue of my injury I left. They thought I was making excuses. As for the doctors I'm put on a waiting list just to get my ruddy scan done which wont be till the end of Jaunary next year. If I have to wait that long for the scan imagine how long i'll have to wait for the operation. My knee is getting worse and worse so I'm planning on hitting the pool and giving martial arts a break for about two months or so. My knee gave way yesterday (dislocated its self) while I was fishing (the worst part is to come) I was left sitting on sand for about two hours doing nothing while some fishing club members inculding my fishing instructor were fishing. I could understand they wanted to get some good sized fish while time was running out. Anyway after they were finished I pipped up and said I couldn't move my leg. They thought I was fooling around and my fishing instructor threatend to tickle me If I didin't get up on the count of three. At this stage (I didn't know he was joking around) I tried to get myself up but I couldn't because the pain was so sharp. I started crying thinking that I was about to face the tickles of doom. I hate being tickled (it hurts) he backed off and started being more serious. Him and and another member of the club picked me up by the shoulders and attempted to walk me up the beach, not being as young and fit as they were back in their days (73 and the other guy looked like in his early 60's and me bing not the lightest person around) I surprised I didn't put their backs out. I had to hop up a step sandy slope. It took ages to get to the top. The nearest place where I could get help was and hour and a halves drive away. Going around bending hills I had to hold onto my knee and pray. I was offered some pain killers which that I gobbled up. When I finaly got to the place of help which was at a carpark at the back of a pub. Another member of the club who knew about dislocated joints soon put it back into place. Busting to go to the loo, one of the woman of the club offered to help me get into the pub (after me begging her). Hoping on one leg holding onto a womans arm received some werid looks and some of the people were laughing at me. I got the same response on the way out.

It made me think If I should go to a private hospital get this leg sorted out for once and for all. Of course its going to cost more but the pain on the beach made me think.

Now its over to you guys for advice.

Thanks for reading this rant. :)

[jamessea]

Only have one thing to say.....


DROITWICH KNEE CLINIC

[wrydolphin]

You're best bet at the minute is to wear a brace (and you should have been wearing one all along you tonce!) and start working on excercises that specifically target the muscles around the knee- both major ones and the stabilizing ones. I would do anything dynamic to start off with, but you can progress slowly. Keep in mind that your injury is fresh, I wasn't doing one legged squats the first year out but have had to work up to them.

And yes, stay away from the dynamic movements for now- it took me over two years before I got back into marital arts and by the time I did I was pretty much running about 80%. I am now about 85-90 depending upon the day and am able to do martial arts, ice skating and many other sports (ok, when not in school) as well as pretty dynamic gym work. And I need to have a second operation to replace the ACL again (the original damage was due to a lateral dislocation of the knee that immediately popped back into place)

The knee (especially for women mores the pity) is pretty vulnerable. You don't want to push it too hard too fast or you will end up never letting it heal.

[Hapuka]

At this present moment I can't even walk. :bang: :cry:

[wrydolphin]

RICE
rest
ice
compression
elevate

and take an antiinflamitory

[Cait]

and then find a doctor who will actually do something

[g-bells]

and then find a doctor who will actually do something
exactly!!!!!!!!!!

[Hapuka]

I spoke to my GP today, he reckons that I should be able to get my knee scanned earlier but that requires me to travel about two hours to the next city which I'm willing to do. Its just a matter now of trying to get an appointment before christmas.

[CosmicFish]

Hap, I don't have any more advice than what's been given already, but for what it's worth you have my complete sympathy. Hope you recover soon.

[doc97]

RICE
rest
ice
compression
elevate

and take an antiinflamitory


Ditto.....

What kind of scan? An MRI? That's going to be your best bet.

[Hapuka]

Yep, MRI it is.

[Kraken]

I ruptured my ACL ligament like a year ago , the rupture of the ACL causes the ''Trick knee'' feeling , You should be able to walk in a little while but....your knee will still be able to ''buckle'' and it will swell up again and you wont be able to walk for a while, i had to take about a year off training and get back into it slowly , then when i had my surgery to repair my ACL and miniscus , it took a good 6 months before i could get back into MMA after surgery, the surgery involves either taking some of the hamstring tendons , or the middle of the patela tendon and putting it in the place of the ACL, my doctor went with the Hamstring approach ,my knee is good now but i got into the habit of babying it and still do even though its normal now.

anyways sorry to hear of your accident and yes it is a bit of a pain in the ass hope you get surgery sooner then i did and get back into training

[Hapuka]

People keep telling to give up martial arts. I'll only give it up If things come to the very worse. But I don't think it will come to that.

[g-bells]

thats a great attitude , let nobody tell you otherwise :)

[Hapuka]

Well, you got to fight for what you want and I want to become a great martial artist.

[g-bells]

good for you, just take it easy till you get it staightened out, don't over do it, you don't want to make it worse

it's better to be easy on it for awhile then to make it worse and be unable to do anything for a longer period of time

best of luck to you

[wrydolphin]

There is a difference between giving up martial arts and allowing yourself realistic time to heal- which you are probably going to have to do. Like I said, I took a two year break and because of it, I was able to start back in without too much problem.

[donb]

People keep telling to give up martial arts. I'll only give it up If things come to the very worse. But I don't think it will come to that.
First of all, i'm not a doctor, i'm a therapist working in orthopedic settings and the chance of working in sports medicine as well. As to giving up martial arts, you don't have to, don't need to. I'm telling you this because i used to do all kinds of jumps and kicks when i was younger, and as you age and injured, you learn to compensate, adapt, and use what works for you as you grow into the system. For one, (although i teach TKD and Hapkido), i am now studying karate which is more grounded, less kicks. Also, i took Aikido which is also very effective in a different way.
As to your injury, i can't give you a diagnosis (an MRI will do that) but i can give some tips about it if you can give me more specifics other than the leg giving out on you - pain (specific spot), tenderness, instability by what you feel (try sitting, feet flat on the floor, manually move your leg with your hands forward, back, side to side and see if your knee moves/creaks/painful). A lot of times, understanding your injury can help you heal yourself (with the aid of modern medicine of course), with some pre-operative suggestions if it comes to that.

[donb]

I reread your thread and i apologize that you did mention bursting a ligament and dislocating your knee. The test of knee stability that i mentioned earlier (called drawer's test - moving your leg like opening/closing a drawer) will more or less confirm ligamental tear/rupture, while pain/tenderness especially on the inside or outside can be a meniscal tear. Eitherway, if we can confirm that it's not muscular in nature, i can more or less give you my perspective of what to do or expect and you can listen to it if you like.

[donb]

There's 3 common scenarios for knee injuries in TKD (other than getting hit):
1. ground impact/stress when you land following a jump causes cartilage damage
2. while kicking, the quads muscles will shorten, hamstring lengthens, sometimes leading to hyperextending the knee joint, usually injuring cruciate ligaments
3. foot/leg on the ground when kicking, if weightshifting to the ball of your feet is not properly done causes some torsion to your miniscus when you pivot
**muscular tears happen too, but this are the more severe ones
Cartilage injuries, may require replacement or suffer arthritic pain with age. Partial tears of ligaments can heal if allowed time for the pieces to connect together and heal (sew itself together). Full tears require surgery. Miniscal injuries if severe require surgery.
**soft tissue injuries though will require 6 -8 weeks to heal
As to suggested treatment:
1. Brace is good during the healing process (people will tell you it will weaken your muscles - true to a degree), ideally the one with lateral uprights to limit lateralization of your knee, limiting it to just flexion-extension. Also, something that has a hinge limiting your leg to about -5degree of extension so as to prevent hyperextension of knee. I usually suggest that you wear this in the afternoons when your leg gets tired. During the day, your muscles are still strong, fresh, and tight. The brace will limit movement, allowing tears to connect/re-attach together.
2. Do isometric exercises, thus, no joint motion but keeping your muscles toned and functional.
3. Do very light and gentle stretching. Muscles go into a protective mode after an injury. Stretching will keep them from getting stiff.
4. Use a heating pad prior to any activity to increase circulation in the area. This will relax your muscles, help bring nutrients to heal injured site, will flush fibrous formation from joint swelling/fluid in the area.
5. Use ice at the end of any activity or end of the day to close your blood vessels to stop any swelling. This will also help heal microtears from the activity you just did.
6. Avoid any volitional activity for about 6-8 weeks - NO KICKING.
Once it heals, then, will have to deal with joint tightness/swelling which will take some time to get rid of but, at least, safe from reinjuring your knee.
Hope this helps.

[doc97]

donb gives some excellent advice. I can't see them telling you to give up on your martial arts. You just need to give yourself adequate time to heal. Many athletes have torn ACL, MCL, meniscus, etc....and have been able to return to their sport, so you should be able to also!

Let us know what your MRI shows. Hopefully it will be something that can be healed with some therapy.

[slipthejab]

Hapuka... all of this comes down to you being in control of your life.

Your story verged on pathetic. Really.
After reading it I wasn't sure whether to take it and make a docu-drama or write an comi-tragedy epic poem.

After all of that... you still have to ask if you should wait until Jan. of next year to get an appointment to get it sorted?! :p :confused: :eek: :bang:

You're a fricken grown person... start acting like one. You know bloody well the public health service is going to take ages to get you serviced... you know having a bunk knee is going to impede in just about every way in your life... so be realistic and be proactive and go to a private doctor and get it sorted once and for all.

Stop moaning... stop looking for excuses and/or sympathy... just get on with it already. No one can do a damn thing about it except for you.

Take some control and just do what you need to do.
Once you start doing that you're life is going to be a whole lot more enjoyable.
;)

246

[Scarlet Mist]

People keep telling to give up martial arts.

*People* are idiots.

[Legless_Marine]

I've had success with Prolotherapy for the treatment of a hypermobile joint, and suggest you look check it out to see if it's a good fit for you.

[prowla]

I've just done my second class back in training after a knee op (torn cartilage). I had been doing some gym work to get sort of in shape, but I was completely knackered at the end of tonight's class.
Feels GREAT!

[donb]

I've just done my second class back in training after a knee op (torn cartilage). I had been doing some gym work to get sort of in shape, but I was completely knackered at the end of tonight's class.
Feels GREAT!
That's good....but since your still fresh from surgery, try icing your knee for about 20 minutes after training to allow microtears to heal especially after a good workout.

[nready]

*People* are idiots.

For once everyone agrees with Scarlet Mist.


I've just done my second class back in training after a knee op (torn cartilage). I had been doing some gym work to get sort of in shape, but I was completely knackered at the end of tonight's class.
Feels GREAT!

You mean after they did the surgery, you did not have that pain and the feeling that your knee would go the other way if you stepped wrong? Do you still have to do the leg extensions everyday?

[Tansy]

Knees are difficult and easy to injure, mine went it took ages for me to get an MRI then an operation, I have been told they feel I will be fine without having anything done to my ACL but if it gives way I will have to have anouther op.

Its painfull, people do just think ''Oh its ok your just over reacting'' untill the pain gets worse and you end really doing damage. So seeing your GP was a good idea!make sure they are updated with your progression.

Your teacher worthy of teaching perhaps is not a surgeon and should just allow his students to make up their minds whether they can train, if you had fallen and really done damage it could have had a bad effect upon him. Your not just a teacher you also have to look after your students.

Don't worry get the knee mended first!good luck.

Tans