ki or chi

[Kenshi]

most martial artsts know of ki or chi energy. it exsicts in all liveing things and is the center of the unverse. now it may sound stupied but has anyone besides me tried to extend there ki outward and absorb it from the earth and harness it.

now before you guys go off saying i watch to much dragen ball z im being completly serous.

[Andrew Green]

"im being completly serous."

Ok... now had you said "I'm being completely serious" I might have believed that. :D

Nothing wrong with what that, just don't mistake metaphor for reality :D

[Hakko-Ryu]

you watch too much dragon ball z

[Hakko-Ryu]

just kidding :D

[47Ronin]

Man, why can't people just participate in threads already being used and not make another one where flame wars happen. A bunch of Chi- tards I say.

[Tireces]

I'll just say that successful "masters" of chi indeed command quite a bit of power. What that power is, I won't get into for the sake of avoiding being called everything from "closed-minded" to lacking faith in my religion.

[Knight_Errant]

Oh goodie! I've been waiting for an opportunity to post a link to this article :)
Rob Redmond and the Purple beasties (http://www.24fightingchickens.com/mu/ki/)
He is completely and utterly right.

[Taiso]

If you read a book by stephen k hayes can't remember which one it tells you of his meeting with hatsumi sensei and his top student who uses chi to propel stephen k hayes into a wall

[xubis]

I read fairy tales once

[hwardo]

Wow, sounds like you guys have really done your research.
Guess us chi-tards had better run off and mix up our potions, huh? Maybe shoot an energy ball at you?
What a shame.

[xubis]

Oh no! HADUKEN!

[nzric]

Kenshi - I know exactly how to do it:

Beef Chiballs
1 1/2 pounds ground round
1/4 cup Parmesan cheese - shredded
1/2 cup dry breadcrumbs
1/3 cup fresh parsley - chopped
1/4 cup tomato sauce
1 teaspoon dry mustard
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon crushed red pepper
2 cloves garlic - crushed

Beef Chiballs
Preheat oven to 400 degrees F. Mix all ingredients in a large bowl. Shape mixture into medium sized chiballs. Place on a broiler pan coated with cooking spray. Bake until done(15 minutes).

[hwardo]

:rolleyes:
Sounds scrumptious.

[Kenshi]

you guys are messed up

[Tireces]

Originally posted by Tireces
I'll just say that successful "masters" of chi indeed command quite a bit of power. What that power is, I won't get into for the sake of avoiding being called everything from "closed-minded" to lacking faith in my religion.

Okay fine, the resurrection of the stupid chi debate has pulled it out of me. The power they command is the power of suggestion. Only with a great deal of it could anyone convince people of something so ludicrous.

[hwardo]

Closed Minded! Lack of faith religion!

[Taiso]

Originally posted by xubis
I read fairy tales once

Don't get smart read "the ninja and their secret fighting art" its all in there

[Animus]

Personal experience-
I was training with this one guy once, this guy is like seventy and very "physically weak". But then again everyhit he planted didn't just hurt, it ripped through me like licking a light socket.
The fact of the matter is he explained the scientific for of Ki, Bio-Electric Energy, you know that small electric field found in all living things. Well, guess what, its entirely real, and proven, and controlable. Just ask my burning and stinging muscles after a two minute match with him.

[nzric]

Animus. Get an electrician to measure the voltage of the guy and you could get a Nobel prize for that!

Don't know why someone hasn't thought of it sooner ...

[Tireces]

Originally posted by Animus
Personal experience-
I was training with this one guy once, this guy is like seventy and very "physically weak". But then again everyhit he planted didn't just hurt, it ripped through me like licking a light socket.
The fact of the matter is he explained the scientific for of Ki, Bio-Electric Energy, you know that small electric field found in all living things. Well, guess what, its entirely real, and proven, and controlable. Just ask my burning and stinging muscles after a two minute match with him.

Ted Wong, a noted JKD practitioner, meets that description, and he never says anything about "chi" or bio-electric fields. Is he lying at his seminars? Is that body mechanics business he uses to explain it all a bunch of horse hockey? Yes, there's an electric field in all living things. Sorry, the reason that fellow was hurting you was because he'd trained so hard and learned to coordinate his body so well. No ancient secrets there. Ki/chi is just a poor, old explanation slapped on a broad array of things. As far as fighting goes, its used to account for improvements made thanks to body mechanics, or, with those "no touch" people, its just used to account for total foolishness. It would be no different an argument if a fellow built himself a gun, went back in time to the crusades, and started shooting people. The folk back then would just call it magic, and never really understand what it was, except for the few people who'd eventually wind up creating them on their own. He'd know surely, and if he taught people what it REALLY was, and how it REALLY worked, they'd be better able to understand it, and any old lout could be taught to make a gun of their own. This is why the myth of "only certain people can succeed in internal arts" hoopla is held up. Because only a few can catch on to body mechanics without realizing they're actually doing it. But if you TELL people what they're really supposed to be improving, everyone can get better with them. Thus, some of us are easily putting together guns of our own, others, are still carving out metal rods just wondering how to recreate the mythical "boomstick".

[hwardo]

"No touch" is bull.
"only certain people can improve" is total bull.
I think that the myths and the metaphors about chi gung do more damage its credibility than modern science ever could.
What if utilizing the concept of chi was a terrific way to gain control over your muscles and the nerves that control them? Would that be less foolish to pursue, in your opinion?

[Tireces]

Using it as that, you're just calling body mechanics by a different name. Thats the only kind of chi practice I really don't have a problem with, so long as the instructor explains to his/her students that it is indeed just that.

[hwardo]

Well, sort of, but the main difference I see is that it is a philosophy of body mechanics, as opposed to just the thing itself.
I do agree, though, that there are a host of charlatans out there that convince students that they are cultivating mystical powers, and these clowns should be addressed, because they give a valuable method of training a bad name.
Tireces, I appreciate your willingness to engage in a reasonable discussion about it. It is hard for two people to disagree about something respectfully.
Cheers.

[Kenshi]

my god what have i started :)

[xubis]

Originally posted by Taiso
Don't get smart read "the ninja and their secret fighting art" its all in there Umm.. no thanks, I'll pass

[RubyMoon]

Chi has been an integral part of many traditional martial arts for thousands of years. Whether you believe in it or not, it is a proven and time-tested training method for achieving mental focus, fluidity of movement, good general health, and a number of other benefits.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Taiso]

Originally posted by xubis
Umm.. no thanks, I'll pass

You're choice but its a good read for anyone whose interested in ninjutsu

[snailfist]

What is "the ninja and their secret fighting art"?
I'd like to read it so any further contributions can be considered objective.

[Taiso]

Its a book by stephen k hayes which has a history of the ninja and recalls his training with Hatsumi sensei you can buy it of amazon

[wild goose]

ignorance is bliss......its obvious that just cause some of you have never had the oportunity to see/experience a Master at work you choose to ridicule......

[snailfist]

Ah. Think i'll pass then. Unless Santa gives it to me for Christmas. Has anyone actually defined chi?

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Ah. Think i'll pass then. Unless Santa gives it to me for Christmas. Has anyone actually defined chi?

Well, no two definitions that I've heard so far have agreed completely, but people have tried.

[nzric]

snailfist - we're trying to define it. The problem is everyone disagrees. Look in the Internal Arts forum, in the thread I started "Ki by any other name". We're working on it!

[passive_warrior]

i stoped reading about half way through these, someones remark about chi and kibeing a bunch of outdated explanations pissed me off. One is a science of the body and the the other is of the mind. when you practice chi you are working to control your body but stances are meaningless. positions are meaningless. A true master can from any position relax, tense, or stretch there muscels. But a true master takes into account that the mind controls what you can do as you can do nothing unless you beleive you can. And only a close minded a plainly stupid individual would call them i beleive it was hopla. let me explain it to you. you know thos people who can tell you what direction north is by holding up a finger. iron. a a also electrolytes in you system allway for this. if you concetrate you can control the flow of your energy to where the iron picks it up. with mental disapline you can direct and chanel it. Open up your mind. Stop letting others think what is logical and not for you. FOR CRYING OUT LOUD THINK!!!!!!!!!!!

(i give it one week before i get baned for messages like this)

I woudl edit this i have time. think it through a little more but i don't have time. stuff to do. hopefully i will have a new computer tonight. yeah!!!!!!

[YODA]

(i give it one week before i get baned for messages like this)


Nothing in there that'll get you banned "passive_warrior" (Ironic username hehe :p) although I suggest concentrationg your efforts on posting a decent well researched viewpoint, backed up by verifiable evidence, may be better than just calling someone who disagrees with you "a close minded a plainly stupid individual."

Just make that your limit and you won't become a self fullfilling prophecy :D

Welcome to MAP by the way!

[passive_warrior]

an ignorant close minded response angered me. normaly i don't do that. normaly i think things through. i got angry. used a stupid scientific explanation that is applicable though unproven. normaly i dont do that. i got angry.

and thanks for the welcome

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by snailfist
Ah. Think i'll pass then. Unless Santa gives it to me for Christmas. Has anyone actually defined chi?

Yes, I did. Chi or qi simply means energy, nothing else and nothing more.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

an ignorant close minded response angered me. normaly i don't do that. normaly i think things through. i got angry. used a stupid scientific explanation that is applicable though unproven. normaly i dont do that. i got angry.

*sniff, sniff* Cool. Hypocrisy. Being close-minded works both ways. You can't complain about people being uncertain about chi because they've never seen any evidence without either producing the evidence, or admitting the possibility that they're right. Otherwise you're just as close-minded as them.

[Yama Tombo]

Talking about electricity there is a guy in indian (being totally serious here) he can take cut of electrical cords; place the wires inside the cords on his body (anywhere); and the appliance will turn on. Now, I've seen this on a reality t.v show called "Ripley's Believe or Not." Any of you that are skeptical, you better watch this show for yourself. Now, I don't know if its called, or considered to be ki, or the guy has been struck by lighting too many times. I've done Tai Chi and never personally felt any affects of chi, I have my doubts also.

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by Yama Tombo
Talking about electricity there is a guy in indian (being totally serious here) he can take cut of electrical cords; place the wires inside the cords on his body (anywhere); and the appliance will turn on. Now, I've seen this on a reality t.v show called "Ripley's Believe or Not." Any of you that are skeptical, you better watch this show for yourself. Now, I don't know if its called, or considered to be ki, or the guy has been struck by lighting too many times. I've done Tai Chi and never personally felt any affects of chi, I have my doubts also.

The electric current of the nervous system has been measured. It is very, very small, but it has been measured. There are different kinds of energy, but they are all energy.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

The human body is a conductor, not a particularly good one, but a conductor. For the appliances he does it'll probably be low currents. Wire him up to a petrol generator sometime. ;)

[nzric]

Once again... if it's true and can be tested in a CONTROLLED environment, that person has an instant guarantee of winning $1,000,000, plus millions from publicity.

If they're monks/gurus/little old men with no desire for money or attention, there's still the factor about improving the scientific and health knowledge of mankind. Pretty noble. If it's real, why don't they go out and prove it instead of going on ripley's believe it or not?

My partner has a long coat and whenever she wore in in London she'd always give me an electric shock on the nose. Maybe that's the key.

[Yama Tombo]

Well the guy started up several appliances like a telly, blender, and toaster all at once.

Much like another asian boy, whoms body is magnetic. He can stick on to his body forks, spoons, knives, and other objects of metal. The boy stuck a spoon to his chest and it just hanged there.


And why don't they do out and try to prove it? I don't know. I'm sure scientist have sought the people out to study them.

[Yama Tombo]

www.ripleys.com

[Seito]

My Money is on the CAT!!!!

[kichiqui]

If you want to learn to do this, and seriously want to work hard at it...join my group of elite ki martial artists. at SOSK.cjb.net

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Thank you, oh thank you. I was feeling a bit down today, but between your site and Casino Royale I'm back to my normal chirpy self.

[kichiqui]

This is serious, if your going to joke about it then your not a serious martial artists..because you are close minded

[LilBunnyRabbit]

This is serious, if your going to joke about it then your not a serious martial artists..because you are close minded

Chi ball techniques?

[kichiqui]

yes it's to know that you are able to release your energy.

[aikiwolfie]

Ok I've been studying Ki Aikido for 6/7 years now and I've never been able to make people fly like that. Now that I think about it. My teacher couldn't do that and he's been practising well over 20 years. Thinking a bit more deeply now I've never know any teacher who teaches Ki produce a "visible" ki ball.

Did you build your own web site. It looks like it.

... takes a few steps behind the bunny rabbit .... sorry but as a wolfie I'm a higher form of life than a rabbit ... you should save me if the mental person attacks ... ehehehe

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by kichiqui
If you want to learn to do this, and seriously want to work hard at it...join my group of elite ki martial artists. at SOSK.cjb.net

For over 30 years I have studied aikido, qigong in China and other Arts that incorporate qi concepts in their practices.

There is a problem in contemporary Oriental practices when people try to define, undefine, say when qi is used and not used. Mystifying qi, calling it above science and assuming an elite view of qi creates an unnecessary barrier to understanding the simple universal nature of qi. I believe in the simplier concept of qi, without the mystery that many people use to describe qi. Qi is simply energy. It can be manifest as physical, intellectual, empotional or spiritual energy, but it is still energy. Qigong, Oriental traditional medicine and the other Arts of the Way (Martial Arts) practice understanding, harmonized, unifying, conserving, controling and maximizing energy for health and life. Science does the same thing.

[mike-IHF]

reply,

Let's get back to reality. If you look at the chinese kanji for ki you will see two pictures. One is a thing that looks like a wavy thing. This is to symbolise Fog, but in the way of martial arts the breath of the person. The other part of the kanji as like a little pattern that looks like rice, because thats what it is. It's hard rice, this is to symbolise the body. So the actual kanji means body, and spirit, or mind. ki= body, and mind. Thats all ki means is body, and mind coordination, nothing more. There is no magical energy, all it means is energy as far as physics of the body movement. Mind, and body functioning as one unit, thats all ki is. "namaste"

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by mike-IHF
reply,

Let's get back to reality. If you look at the chinese kanji for ki you will see two pictures. One is a thing that looks like a wavy thing. This is to symbolise Fog, but in the way of martial arts the breath of the person. The other part of the kanji as like a little pattern that looks like rice, because thats what it is. It's hard rice, this is to symbolise the body. So the actual kanji means body, and spirit, or mind. ki= body, and mind. Thats all ki means is body, and mind coordination, nothing more. There is no magical energy, all it means is energy as far as physics of the body movement. Mind, and body functioning as one unit, thats all ki is. "namaste"

I agree. Back to reality. You used different words to describe qi the same way I did in the previous post.

[aikiwolfie]

There is definatly more to ki than just physical movement. That doesn't mean it's some "mystical" force. Ki is simply energy and every body is sensitive to it.

An example of when you might have been aware ki without knowing it was ki is when you walk into a room where the atmosphere or mood is tangible. Where you might say "you could cut the air with a knife".

Another example is where you get that feeling you're being watched.

A move positive example might be the buzz in the air at a party.

These are all situations where the ordinary person becomes highly sensitive to ki without realising it or exstends more ki withou realising it. The truth is everybody extends ki all the time. Some just do it more than others.

The advantage of studying ki to the martial artist is to be able to feel an attackers intentions.

All this stuff about "visible ki balls". I've never seen it before and never done it before. It's bull. It's also bull like this that degrades martial arts that make a point of studying ki and makes ki a far harder concept for martial artists and non-martial artist alike to accept.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Wow. Chi is a mix of pheromones and standard human paranoia.

[nzric]

Nothing like a few tequila slammers to get the chi going

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by LilBunnyRabbit
Wow. Chi is a mix of pheromones and standard human paranoia.

Qi is everything and nothing.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Qi is everything and nothing.

Well, you're half right...:D

[aikiwolfie]

tequila? saki is better mmmmmmmmm saki ... drools ...