Abs

[Rawrasaurus]

since the i cant seen to find the "new" H&F forum, imma post it here. What is a stomach that is define as a gut? and what kind of exercises, different kind of situps can i do to achieve a good looking stomach? and whats a good amount of it per day for a teenager?

[SickDevildog]

Do a search on spot reduction and you'll see that you wont lose flab around the stomach by working the muscles in that area.

Your best bet would be to manipulate calorie intake...

Nutrition for Nubs:

Part 1
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1793585

Part 2
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1795045

...and do some kind of HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training) like Tabatas

Tabatas:
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-046-training

[yannick35]

So true low glycemic can do wonders for the mid section and love handles.

Thanks for the links

[Kalifallen]

since the i cant seen to find the "new" H&F forum, imma post it here. What is a stomach that is define as a gut? and what kind of exercises, different kind of situps can i do to achieve a good looking stomach? and whats a good amount of it per day for a teenager?
a beer belly?

Any type of sit ups and crunches are good. Just remember to get the full mid section working. Lower abs and obliques (side abs) are the hardest to get. So do a lot of trunk stretches too. They help a lot with shaping.

Average about 20 reps BUT work up to that. You don't want to be sore after so you can't do any tomorrow, or do you?
Then work up to a couple sets with a 1 minute rest in between.

Once when you get up to being able to do 20 reps easily pick up the speed to get your endurance up. Then work on to doing 2 sets of 20 and repeat.

[nready]

Thank you SickDevildog, I needed that help. That is in the articles on how to define what I need of each food type! I had worked out the protein but not the carbs, or fats.

I can not thank you enough! I knew that was out there somewhere.

[SickDevildog]

NP, if you wanna get more indepth info on nutrition you can always check out the articles by David Barr and John Berardi on t-nation.

[Knight_Errant]

The thing to bear in mind with tabatas is that they are an ADVANCED training protocol. Personally, I'm nothing like the hardass it takes to do them on a regular basis.
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21203
Ah- HA! I found it again. Bear in mind that the tone I took back in the day left a lot to be desired.

[BorntoFight]

I found that this ab routine is very good. It targets all the muscles in the midsection.

YouTube - Get six pack abs in 6 minutes on your couch. Works Fast!

As long as your body fat percentage is low enough you'll see results within the first week.

When you do your workouts try to do your abs at the end, as many exercises require your midsection to be strong but if you have already fatigued those muscles your overall performance will suffer.

[DuncanFraser]

i like to warm up with 300 situps, then after a 15 second rest go into a superset of 10 full lying leg lifts, 10 partial lying leg lifts (1 inch off the floor up to 18 inches off the floor),20 weighted situps (i use 7.5kg plate), i repeat this superset 3 times with zero rest (should take 20-25mins). I then hold a plank on my elbows for 3 mins. I next work my obliques with 3 sets of 15 dumbbell side bends, 3 sets of 50 twisting cycle crunches and hold a side plank for 1 minute each side.

This is quite advanced and i would not reccomend it for a begginer, the workout above looks excellent for someone who has not been working their abs for a long time.

It is also pretty intense so i would say only do it once every 2-3 days MAXIMUM, even once a week will be fine.

Hope this helps :)

[DuncanFraser]

Sorry, just to clarify, when i said "the above workout" i meant the video in the post above mine, not my workout :)

[Shaky]

Are lean abbs totally about your overall body fat? I'm trying to get lean, I've wrote what I eat down and I believe my carb intake is far less than its usage, the top of my abbs are quite lean, as is the rest of my body, but the lower part isn't. Sounds like a weird question, but is it just a matter of time until my body fat lowers or is there anything else I can do? I weight train 3 times a week, eat healthily, consciously try to maintain a level blood sugar, my meals literally consists of:

breakfast: oats, nuts, strawberrys + Phd synergy 7
Mid morning: oats+nuts+raisins
Dinner: Wholemeal sandwhich, chicken + veg
Tea: veg, potatos, chicken/turkey
After training/Afternoon: Phd synergy 7
I don't drink alcohol, but do drink coffee at work, trying to lower how much of this I drink and replace with water.

With high intensity training (I train like a hero, strict and slow reps) and my diet, do you guys think I will eventually get my bodyfat low enough to have visible abbs? Will it take considerable time? If so any ideas on time scales?

I have only recently started to get back into this and really push with the diet and training as I haven't really had the time before due to work/study, I've been training around 2 months and have made gains towards being lean, but the lower part of my abbs seem to be resistant... I'm getting close to drawing abbs on..

[DuncanFraser]

Yes, visible abs are almost entirely about body fat. Many people believe that they will get a visible six pack from doing abdominal exercises but this is just not true. Abdominal exercises will strengthen your core muscles (incredibly important for martial arts) but the definition in your abs comes from a low body fat level (to see visible definition for guys you need to be at a bout 12% body fat minimum).

Over time your body fat will lower if you are consistently working out and watching what you eat. The best possible excercise for abs is cardio. If you can, aim to do at least 20-30 mins of cardiovascular training EVERYDAY. This will supplement your weight training regime and over time lower your body fat percentage along with a controlled nutritional programme. The process is slow but steady. Depending on where you are starting from (current bf%) you should start to see results in 2-3months.

[GaryT85]

The best possible excercise for abs is cardio. If you can, aim to do at least 20-30 mins of cardiovascular training EVERYDAY. This will supplement your weight training regime and over time lower your body fat percentage along with a controlled nutritional programme. The process is slow but steady. Depending on where you are starting from (current bf%) you should start to see results in 2-3months.

throw some HIIT stuff in there to help speed up any fat loss you may be after :cool:

[Shaky]

I've never done HIIT before, i've been reading about it though, would a 30second sprint, 1 minute fast job rotation for like 10 minutes be good? I get the idea, but i'm not sure about the timings tbh. Any tips would be nice, i'd prefer running to anything else like cycling ect.

[GaryT85]

have a look here for some info on tabata intervals;

ross training - tabata (http://http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/tabataintervals.html)

:cool:

[Nutjob]

trying sprint 200m then having a minutes rest, repeat about 10 times, this is pretty good for burning fat.

[Shaky]

have a look here for some info on tabata intervals;

ross training - tabata (http://http://www.rosstraining.com/articles/tabataintervals.html)

:cool:

Cheers, btw, theres to many http:// in that link so it goes dead, just incase anyone else wants to follow it :)

Cheers Nutjob, I'll try that but probably won't rest, i'll just knock the speed down as I woudn't want to heart rate to fall to low.

[Donaldo]

lean muscle mass is important in eating calories..bear that in mind. Your diet is ok to me, however i would suggest running 30 mins/walking 4 times a week(not everyday you will overtrain because of the other training you do). With regards to your Ex selection, do crunches and reverse crunches 3 times a week for 3/4 sets till max reps. I would not use weight on your Ab ex..forget the Ab machines(i work in a Gym). Roll your rib cage into your pelvis(crunch) Roll your knees(pelvis) towards your chest(rev crunch) do also twisting crunches for the obliques..NEVER WITH WEIGHT!

[slipthejab]

lean muscle mass is important in eating calories..bear that in mind. Your diet is ok to me, however i would suggest running 30 mins/walking 4 times a week(not everyday you will overtrain because of the other training you do). With regards to your Ex selection, do crunches and reverse crunches 3 times a week for 3/4 sets till max reps. I would not use weight on your Ab ex..forget the Ab machines(i work in a Gym). Roll your rib cage into your pelvis(crunch) Roll your knees(pelvis) towards your chest(rev crunch) do also twisting crunches for the obliques..NEVER WITH WEIGHT!


What's your rationale behind not using weights for ab exercises?

[Donaldo]

The Abs like any muscle will get larger. Not only the rectus abdominus but also the obliques. Sucking in your abs in crunches or doing VACUMS will train your traverse Abdoms..Believe me you should concentrate on each contraction. weight will not help you.

[slipthejab]

The Abs like any muscle will get larger. Not only the rectus abdominus but also the obliques.

Obviously.
A body builder would use weighted exercises in conjunction with a set/rep/tempo ratio designed to bring about hypertrophy thereby achieving the desired aesthetic.

A boxer, nak muay or other athlete might train using weights but in an entirely different manner... to achieve gains in strength and quickness. The hypertrophy response wouldn't be the same because the set to rep ratio would be quite different. Not to mention the movements would often be explosively trained.

Both have and do use weights in their training. But they use them with different methodologies. Achieving rather different results and subsequently the resulting physiques are quite different.


Sucking in your abs in crunches or doing VACUMS will train your traverse Abdoms..

There are many different ways to train your transverse abdominals (TVA). I just find it curious that you recommend to not use weights for abdominals at all when it's a very common method among athletes and coaches looking to improve both speed and power. Again - attention to form and a good understanding of functional anatomy is worth it's weight in gold as most people who are working abs have no clue what the frontal flexor chain is and are usually working only the hip flexors.

Believe me you should concentrate on each contraction. weight will not help you.

Weights will help if you have the following:

1) proper set/rep/tempo protocol as per your sports specific workout
2) you can execute the movement with proper form at bodyweight
3) you are in need of more resistance than bodyweight can offer

All that being said... one of the best weighted exercises to improve your abs providing you are beyond a bedridden obese person? Squat. Dumbells or Oly bar.

I'm curious what your actual background is in training. I got from your post that you work in a gym - but in more detail what is it you do at the gym and what type of background do you have?

[Donaldo]

What´s your background ?? I am a Sport Admin and Fitness trainer.

[Donaldo]

You don´t need weight on Ab ex..load of rubbish. Explain the function of the abs. You will not strengthen the abs and get defined abs with useing weight...load of crap. maybe in your land the thinking is still from the 70´s but we don´t do that now.

[harukoraharu]

I wouldn't get too excited as the OP hasn't logged into MAP for over a year.

[slipthejab]

What´s your background ?? I am a Sport Admin and Fitness trainer.

Interesting. What are the certs programs they generally use in your gym? Your gym is fight/sports specific or a general fitness gym?

Are your trainers performance based or sales based?


You don´t need weight on Ab ex..load of rubbish.

So if no weights how do you progress your clients once they can do say 10-15 reps of a particular ab drill if their focus is strength? You do progress your clients as their performance improves right?

Explain the function of the abs.

When you mention 'abs' are you referring to the obliques, the rectus abdominus or the transverse abdominus?
Or the entire groups of muscles as they relate to the 'core'?
I'm more than happy to go on this subject at length.

You will not strengthen the abs and get defined abs with useing weight...load of crap.

Definition in the abs is primarily a function of the percentage of body fat that you carry. But you knew that.
If you want to strengthen your abs and you can easily handles 10-15 reps of bodyweight with proper form... please explain your method for progressing. What is it you would do in order to arrive at greater resistance in order to build strength. Surely it's possible to become stronger by adding resistance no? Unless you have something that completely undermines what is known in sports science and strength and conditioning today. Let's hear it.

maybe in your land the thinking is still from the 70´s but we don´t do that now.

Uh... my land? Since when did my geographic location have anything to do with it. You're starting to sound a tad defensive. Are you in some magical location that has the corner on training methodologies? You live in Polequin's place? You're roommates with Paul Chek? You are the Siamnese twin of Peter Twist? lol

In terms of 'we don't do that now' who is the 'we'.... this is exactly why I asked you what your background is...

Does 'we' refer to NASM? CSCS? PTA Global? Or any of the other certs that are out there? Curious which route it is you have chosen.
It'd be interesting to hear your answers on how you figure your going to progress your clients who are interested in getting stronger if you don't
plan to use any form of resistance once a very basic modicum of form/rep is met.

Please enlighten us. I hope for the sake of your gym and your clients that your manner in dealing with them is a bit more sophisticated than getting your shirt up when someone starts asking you questions about what you think you know. :rolleyes:

[slipthejab]

I wouldn't get too excited as the OP hasn't logged into MAP for over a year.

Because the OP is the only person ever going to read the thread?

If you look at the numbers on MAP you'll find that many old threads see a lot of traffic. It's important to make sure that when someone posts something about routines and methods that they can actually think it through to the end and provide solid examples... preferably based on credible methodology.

:hat:

[harukoraharu]

I know. I was reading an old thread on bag gloves earlier today but none of the discussion really answered the question I had in mind....

... and I agree with you. When an abs exercise becomes easy at high repetitions it is time to add weight (though it's difficult to know if the OP was starting from a good base fitness or complete beginner)

[Frodocious]

If you want to build strength in a muscle group you need to add weight to it. Heck Olympic gymnasts use weighted ab exercises (e.g. hanging leg lifts, windshield wipers etc) and they have pretty good core strength without being overly developed. If your not using weights then you'll only ever build endurance and doing loads of crunches is probably one of the most useless ab exercises you can ever do.

[Donaldo]

You are talking rubbish..Crunches and ab training are NOT about externel weight. If you think that you are above us in europe in training then tell us ?

[slipthejab]

You are talking rubbish..Crunches and ab training are NOT about externel weight. If you think that you are above us in europe in training then tell us ?

Umm... so I'm guessing this is your way of dodging the questions put to you about your training methodologies.:rolleyes:

In case you hadn't figured it out good training is not dictated by nationality nor is it dictated by geographic location.

So really put something on the plate...

[Frodocious]

The abs/core are a group of muscles, therefore they respond to an applied stimulus the same way as every other group of muscles, so if you want them to get stronger you have to increase resistance. The easiest way to do that is to add weight and work in the lower rep range. If you want to build endurance, that is a different thing all together and that is where higher reps can be useful.

You want defined abs then you need to look to your diet. You cannot spot reduce abdominal fat by doing crunches.

[slipthejab]

Maybe European gym admin's have some secret to spot reduce.:rolleyes:

Christ almighty... if we get in on this early we could make a bleedin' fortune! :D

[Frodocious]

Maybe European gym admin's have some secret to spot reduce.:rolleyes:

Not the ones I know!


Christ almighty... if we get in on this early we could make a bleedin' fortune! :D

How about the 'SlipFrodo £1000 for perfect abs' scam, erm I mean routine. Just do several sets of different crunches twice a day and you're there! Obviously we don't tell them the specific crunches involved till they've paid up! :)

[holyheadjch]

It never fails to amaze me just how many fitness professionals have fallen into the myth that the abs are somehow completely different to any other muscle group. It also never fails to amaze me how so called fitness professionals continue to advocate crunches etc as the primary way of working the abs, despite the potential damage they can do to your spine.

[slipthejab]

What's even worse is the whole 'abs in isolation' rigamarole stuff that gets put out there. It's a hangover from the world of bodybuilders. Obviously the body doesn't think in terms of single muscles but in terms of whole chains of muscles working together in an integrated fashion... ie. kinetic chains.

Sadly most people simply don't have very much of a command of functional anatomy. Which I don't get... because most of the material is out there and readily available. Maybe instead of sitting down and flipping through Grey's Anatomy the medical text they are too busy flipping channels to Grey's Anatomy the TV show on the brain-drain box.

Recently we have more information than ever before available to us... especially in regards to how the muscle and skeletal system are intergrated with the fascia... a lot of new concepts and ways of looking at how the body functions and responds to stress and pressures placed on it.

Yet we constantly run up against the old mindset of isolation and bodybuilder style workouts from the 'gym rat' mindset.

[JaxMMA]

The thing with those guys that post videos of themselves doing 120,300,333 situps/crunches a day and claiming that it "worked" for them is that it did work for them. But when you look at it most of them are gifted with a skinny/lean body to begin with so once they build up some muscle it shows easily.
For the rest of us that have a "protective layer" over hard-rock abs it's not as easy. We need to lose this layer first...

[Donaldo]

What's even worse is the whole 'abs in isolation' rigamarole stuff that gets put out there. It's a hangover from the world of bodybuilders. Obviously the body doesn't think in terms of single muscles but in terms of whole chains of muscles working together in an integrated fashion... ie. kinetic chains.

Sadly most people simply don't have very much of a command of functional anatomy. Which I don't get... because most of the material is out there and readily available. Maybe instead of sitting down and flipping through Grey's Anatomy the medical text they are too busy flipping channels to Grey's Anatomy the TV show on the brain-drain box.

Recently we have more information than ever before available to us... especially in regards to how the muscle and skeletal system are intergrated with the fascia... a lot of new concepts and ways of looking at how the body functions and responds to stress and pressures placed on it.

Yet we constantly run up against the old mindset of isolation and bodybuilder style workouts from the 'gym rat' mindset.

so you slag everyone of "Bruce Lee" so tell us what you´re qualifications are? I might of got Banned because of you but you are a real PRAT. You slag off Trainers in Europe and in the USA ..i am sick of guys like you because you come from China..WOW:bang: and think you are the best. Training is much more Advanced in Europe and the USA as in China..lol. Look at the PRIMATIVE training methods in China, i bet you could count on one hand how many "FITNESS CHINA MEN" make it in the USA and Europe as Fitness Trainers. You have a big mouth and i invite you to come over anytime and we can sort it out. You are just a KEYBOARD WARRIOR...LOL i bet your a little weed with Glasses.

[holyheadjch]

so you slag everyone of "Bruce Lee" so tell us what you´re qualifications are? I might of got Banned because of you but you are a real PRAT. You slag off Trainers in Europe and in the USA ..i am sick of guys like you because you come from China..WOW:bang: and think you are the best. Training is much more Advanced in Europe and the USA as in China..lol. Look at the PRIMATIVE training methods in China, i bet you could count on one hand how many "FITNESS CHINA MEN" make it in the USA and Europe as Fitness Trainers. You have a big mouth and i invite you to come over anytime and we can sort it out. You are just a KEYBOARD WARRIOR...LOL i bet your a little weed with Glasses.
I'll let Slip make the big reveal, but in the meantime.

You do realise that you haven't managed to discount anything that slip has said in this thread? He's said nothing that anyone with a fair understanding of strength training and anatomy doesn't know to be true.

You are the worst type of trainer -the type who wear your ignorance proudly like a badge of honour. It is one of the reasons why I avoid commercial gyms like the plague they are. I'll leave you to your plastic pink weights and elliptical trainers.

There was a chance for you to increase your knowledge in this thread and become a better trainer, but instead of embracing new information you just throw a tantrum because your tissue paper certificates didn't teach you humility...or elementary anatomy, it seems.

[Donaldo]

Maybe European gym admin's have some secret to spot reduce.:rolleyes:

Christ almighty... if we get in on this early we could make a bleedin' fortune! :D

well tell us :hat:china man...what´s the chinese way? "Eating Rice "?

[Donaldo]

I'll let Slip make the big reveal, but in the meantime.

You do realise that you haven't managed to discount anything that slip has said in this thread? He's said nothing that anyone with a fair understanding of strength training and anatomy doesn't know to be true.

You are the worst type of trainer -the type who wear your ignorance proudly like a badge of honour. It is one of the reasons why I avoid commercial gyms like the plague they are. I'll leave you to your plastic pink weights and elliptical trainers.

There was a chance for you to increase your knowledge in this thread and become a better trainer, but instead of embracing new information you just throw a tantrum because your tissue paper certificates didn't teach you humility...or elementary anatomy, it seems.

Funny he never says what his qualifications are...wind your neck in

[Aegis]

After deleting some fairly obnoxious posts by Donaldo and banning the idiot for failing to read the terms of service after several warnings, I think this thread can go back to being as informative as possible.

Enjoy!

[Gary]

So how many situps do i have to do for abs? At the moment I'm pushing for a half dozen every other weekend... :D

[Frodocious]

So how many situps do i have to do for abs? At the moment I'm pushing for a half dozen every other weekend... :D

3. Once a month, but only if the last day of the month falls on a Wednesday. :D

[Gary]

3. Once a month, but only if the last day of the month falls on a Wednesday. :D
Cheers, I thought I might have been overtraining them!

[Frodocious]

Cheers, I thought I might have been overtraining them!

Didn't u noes? You can't overtrain the abz. They is not like other muzcles. ;) :D

[Theek]

I was thinking about making a different thread, but since I found one about abs I figured it would probably be best to just post in this one. I was reading in a book Never Let Go by Dan John that sit-ups and other exercises that only worked the core were bad for your back. So can anyone give me suggestions on exercise that will help strengthen the abs

[Knight_Errant]

Bar rollouts are a good one. YouTube - ‪RossTraining.com - Barbell Rollouts - February 2010‬‏
For an alternative point of view, read this: http://startingstrength.com/articles/abs_rippetoe.pdf basically, there's a prevalent view that ab exercises per se are unnecessary. I personally am not convinced, but it's worth considering.