View Full Version : is learning from 2 Masters ok?
KungFuGrrrl
07-Dec-2003, 04:13 AM
What is your opinion?
I have been at my school for going on 8 years and I love my school.
However, I have the opportunity to train with a very respected Master who has been teaching Tai Chi for 40 years, a World Champion.
I know Sifu would not be happy about it.
I do not want to feel like I am *cheating* on my school.
Ive always read and heard that you stick with your Sifu until you can no longer learn from him/her.....
What are your thoughts?:confused:
Andrew Green
07-Dec-2003, 04:18 AM
I have been shopping at Walmart for 8 years and love it.
However I have the opportunity to shop at another large store.
I know walmart wouldn't be happy about it.
I do not want to feel like I am *cheating* on Walmart.
:D
Sounds a little silly doesnt it ;)
totality
07-Dec-2003, 04:33 AM
well...learning from 2 masters is alright, as long as one of them is me.
or maybe it's just generally acceptable.
Stiles
07-Dec-2003, 08:24 AM
Never pass up a good thing.. I've always belived that the best way to thank your teacher is to surpass him and then repay him by teaching him somthing you know.
Just a thought.
YODA
07-Dec-2003, 08:26 AM
It's an excellent idea! Go for it :D
tkd ajumma
07-Dec-2003, 08:34 AM
I and some of my friends wanted to do some extra classes with a different master, and we also felt really bad about 'betraying' our master. We went along to the other classes, and found that our skills really improved, and that the teaching techniques of the two schools really complemented each other well. However, we still felt guilty about not staying loyal to our original master, and one of my friends said it felt like committing adultery. I'm not sure I feel quite that bad, but I certainly keep quiet about the other teacher when training with my original master.
Another problem arose when it came to gradings - some students would suddenly appear at the new gym wearing a different colour belt, and the grading requirements were slightly different between the two schools.
The stance my instructor takes on it is that you train with one instructor and one only. It is for that reason exactly that you stick to one (confusion with gradings etc) That also and your instructors will both be confused as to how all of a sudden you've learnt new things that they ahvent shown you. I think out of respect you should ask the teacher you first started with if it would be ok to supplement your training with someextra training with the grandmaster. I also strongly believe that you should only grade at one school, not 2 and make sure both instructors know of the situation ;) it will make things easier i think when you get to much senior grades.
Coyote
07-Dec-2003, 12:42 PM
My soke has been fairly open-minded about the idea of students training with other masters. He asks that we never go behind his back, and that we always ask him about the prosepective new instructor. He also encourages us to bring back anything we learn for him to look at. In that way, he can check and make certain his students aren't just getting bilked by a clever charlatan.
SoKKlab
07-Dec-2003, 12:51 PM
I'll train with anyone that I can learn something from that is relevant to what I am doing or that can embellish what I already know, be it Grand MasterFlash or Melle Mel.
Aegis
07-Dec-2003, 03:01 PM
I've always felt that any instructor should have no problems with you learning elsewhere. If they're that concerned about it, why? Are they afraid you might find a better system or a better teacher? If so, maybe they should work on their own faults rather than force you to live with them. An instructor is there to instruct, not run your life.
David
07-Dec-2003, 03:49 PM
When I did some cross-training in taiji, I didn't feel obliged to ask my kung fu teacher but I did tell him. It was interesting to compare and contrast.
The taiji teacher never seemed quite right with it, though, and I think he was wondering what I was doing there. It was like suspicion or something.
At another time, I went and did some Wing Chun because I had only one mantis lesson a week and not enough to material. The WC teacher wanted me to cease mantis. He said that he'd very quickly get fed up of correcting me for doing mantis moves in his class, especially if I was still re-inforcing the mantis bytraining it!
Physiologically, it may be harmful to train two styles because your neuromuscular pathways become mixed. You can find yourself trying to do both at once, or hesitating and the hesitation becomes ingrained. If you have 8 yrs in style #1 then I think this won't matter.
Rgds,
David
KungFuGrrrl
07-Dec-2003, 04:00 PM
years ago I phoned the *other* Master to just inquire and she was very stern and ask *WHY you leave your Sifu*? I said I havent left him, I am just curious about your teachings.
She had invited me to her house and I did not go....
last year I asked my Sifu if he would mind if I trained with her and he was very upset....... and told me to leave the school..... I told him NO I WILL NOT! But he NO LONGER teaches Tai Chi and Ineed to continue to improve so that I am not stagnant as I have a non profit that I teach battered women Tai Chi Chuan........
Now, I find this *Treasure from China* is teaching in a park the down the street from my house! she started learning in 1958 In Hong Kong......
She learned from the Fu Zhong Wen, husband of Yang Cheng Fu's grand niece. Yang Cheng Fu’s teacher is Yang Jianhou, son of the Yang style’s creator, Yang Luchan.
Wu Ying Hua, daughter of Wu style Taijiquan’s creator, Wu Jian Quan.
Maybe I will talk to him again , if I learn a different style than he taught, and I can bring that to our school and teach --maybe he will go for it......... like Wu style and Chen.......
KungFuGrrrl
07-Dec-2003, 04:12 PM
ps
I am the Tai Chi Chuan teacher at my school! I even teach to the other instructors......
Originally posted by KungFuGrrrl
years ago I phoned the *other* Master to just inquire and she was very stern and ask *WHY you leave your Sifu*? I said I havent left him, I am just curious about your teachings.
She had invited me to her house and I did not go....
Why not?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KungFuGrrrl
last year I asked my Sifu if he would mind if I trained with her and he was very upset....... and told me to leave the school..... I told him NO I WILL NOT! But he NO LONGER teaches Tai Chi and Ineed to continue to improve so that I am not stagnant as I have a non profit that I teach battered women Tai Chi Chuan........
Tai Chi for health or tai chi for martial arts?
For health, once you achieve a certain proficiency - it's not imperative to have a teacher.
Originally posted by KungFuGrrrl
She learned from the Fu Zhong Wen, husband of Yang Cheng Fu's grand niece. Yang Cheng Fu’s teacher is Yang Jianhou, son of the Yang style’s creator, Yang Luchan.
Wu Ying Hua, daughter of Wu style Taijiquan’s creator, Wu Jian Quan.
[/B]
The Yang Cheng Fu version is more for health than combat. Always great to have good lineage though.
Go learn now.
KungFuGrrrl
07-Dec-2003, 05:37 PM
Tai Chi Chuan for martial arts of course!
health is added benefit.
So if you've got to the point where you can teach other instructors, you should be able to teach yourself.
You shouldn't really need one single teacher.
Why does your teacher insist you only learn from him?
KungFuGrrrl
07-Dec-2003, 07:04 PM
Well, In Chinese Martial Arts it is a respect issue. Among most ...... for hundreds of years, you stick with your master until you can no longer learn from him/her........
I disagree that I can teach myself a new style of Tai Chi Chuan! I would probably pick it up quick but I believe one needs a teacher in order to profficiently learn a style.
I would have to look at videos and books and that is no comparison to a real live master of that art.
Thank you for your ideas and opinions though!
KFG
Originally posted by KungFuGrrrl
Well, In Chinese Martial Arts it is a respect issue. Among most ...... for hundreds of years, you stick with your master until you can no longer learn from him/her........
Is your teacher chinese?
You mention:
until you can no longer learn from him/her........
I assumed your level of knowledge from your current teacher has somewhat plateau, in which your teacher should've let you go.
Originally posted by KungFuGrrrl I disagree that I can teach myself a new style of Tai Chi Chuan! I would probably pick it up quick but I believe one needs a teacher in order to profficiently learn a style.
Didn't mean teach yourself a new form. Just advance your current form.
I'm lucky. My teachers are very open - and allow me to practise at different places. It makes me more aware exactly how good my current club is.
Originally posted by KungFuGrrrl
Thank you for your ideas and opinions though!
That's what we here for - share and exchange ideas.
KungFuGrrrl
07-Dec-2003, 11:54 PM
Yes, He is Chinese He was born in Hong Kong.
He no longer teaches Tai Chi class at the school or I would be able to learn more from him. Also I would like to learn other styles.
There are many styles in Tai Chi Chuan.
I still have a ways to go learning other styles from him :
Wing Chun ( Im 1/2 way through the system) , Shaolin Five Animal Style, Jeet Kune Do, and the school is a part of my life so I wouldnot want to let it go.
KungFuGrrrl
07-Dec-2003, 11:56 PM
NOt only that, but the other Chinese Masters would not teach me if I did not have his blessing provided that I stick with the school which I intend to do.
trust me Ive asked.
totality
08-Dec-2003, 04:49 AM
i left the school i used to attend...now i'm self-taught. but i must admit, my sifu would be mighty pissed off if i left him for another. because then he'd have to drive all the way to another state, and it would become expensive.
Originally posted by KungFuGrrrl
Yes, He is Chinese He was born in Hong Kong.
That explains it. It's a matter of face/respect. Let me guess - you have a father-daughter relationship.
Not much you can do. Usually if you take another teacher, it translates as though they are not good enough.
The only thing I can think of, if possible, is to get both teachers to meet.
KungFuGrrrl
08-Dec-2003, 02:59 PM
Yeah, he was pretty upset when I brought up the subject a year ago. well i couldnt help it and I emailed him about this.
about if I learn different forms from this other one.......I will see him tonight I hope I didnt upset him again. I really love my Sifu and my school and don't mean to hurt him..........
He really went to bat for me and my son years ago.....in court!
I will let you know what happens. I just couldnt stand being booted!
Totality- what school did you attend and why did you leave? are you on good terms with your Sifu?
Sincerely good luck.
btw, I pictured as being very young - and here you tell us you have a kid :)
KungFuGrrrl
08-Dec-2003, 03:29 PM
lol very young why?
I am pretty old lol but i dont feel /act it....
been studying for almost 8 years now........
Could be the grrrrlll thing, the catwoman avatar- or the chi that you radiate!!! :D Really have no idea why!
Shade
08-Dec-2003, 04:22 PM
zun you smooth talker you :D
kempocos
08-Dec-2003, 04:46 PM
"I still have a ways to go learning other styles from him :
Wing Chun ( Im 1/2 way through the system) , Shaolin Five Animal Style, Jeet Kune Do, and the school is a part of my life so I wouldnot want to let it go."
I think this is your answer Your sifu feels you have more work to do before distracting yourself with the teachings of another system. If your only focus was Tai Chi then perhaps, but it sounds like he has a path he wishes to see you complete.
totality- I respectfully suggest you find a teacher and that you can not teach yourself what you do not know, I see many kids your age ( 15 according to your profile ) claim that after a few years in a Childrens program and maybe a year in an adult program to teach teach /create thier own style. I always see where the eye of qualified teacher would have pointed out the errors the techniques they produce.
KungFuGrrrl
08-Dec-2003, 04:55 PM
FIFTEEN!
There is a BIG mistake there!
LMAO Im 40 years old! (very young 40 at that lol)
More work to do in Yang stylere: push hands, but I cant afford to pay 30 $ for 1/2 hour private to learn it! on top of regular dues.......
He has me teach the class when we have a 6 week Tai Chi course.........I have taught some of the other instructors
TC is not my only focus..... I said before that I love my Wing Chun and the Shaolin......JKD..
TC is a BIG focus as I run a non profit org and I teach the battered women (with Sifu's approval)...for the last 2 years .....I need to be able to continue learning or I will grow stagnant in Tai Chi, I need to have someone to practice push hands and etc..... and I really would love to learn Wu Style and Chen Style, Sun Style.............
I have succesfully simultaneously learned Wing Chun, Jeet Kune Do, Tai Chi Chuan, and weapons from him for the last 8 years so Im certain the problem is not a simultaneous learning thing. More like what zun said reg. being disrespect thing.
anyway,
thanx for the response!
KungFuGrrrl
08-Dec-2003, 05:54 PM
I just got the good word from him!
he said ok that I can learn different styles WOW!
BIG change from last year.
He said I can even teach them at the school once I am profficient and of course if he approves of them!
I LOVE my school!
Thanks for all your replies!
kempocos
08-Dec-2003, 06:00 PM
I was speaking to TOTALITY in the second paragragh and his leaving his teacher to teach himself.
As I stated it sounds like he has a plan for you, sees you as a respected senior student. If you explain yourself much like you have here and show the proper dedicaion in class he should be ok with it. If not remeber it is not like a movie where he took you in to train you, YOU PAY HIM TO TEACH YOU , HE WORKS FOR YOU. Train with who you want.
kempocos
08-Dec-2003, 06:01 PM
you replied again, in the time it took me to type my reply, I am glad it worked out in your favor!!!
KungFuGrrrl
08-Dec-2003, 06:04 PM
LOL
Well, thanx! I really needed the support from this board!
The school is such a part of my life It would be near impossible to not have all of these blessings in my life: Sifu, the fellow students I have worked with for almost 8 years and the energy of the place !
Thanks everyone who's ben discussing.
i've got the oppertunity to go to another instructor as well as my own, i know someone else who is about to start tkd at another school, and i'll ask him to do some recon ( what days they meet, what style they teach, how much it costs etc.) and if it meshes with my current classes i'll bring it up with my current instructor.
but what if it's itf rather than wtf???
i'm sure this must have been talked about before. i'll search it out.
anyway, thanks for the discussion. helped clear my head.
-Qis
BRITON
13-Mar-2005, 07:32 PM
Training with one instructor for many years becomes like a marriage, you feel as if your being unfaithful by seeing someone else.
Well its not a marriage and should be a friendship, and friends do not fall out because you have other friends, they introduce each other and expand their circle of friends, if your instructor feels it is a marriage and you are being unfaithful then they are deludery and its time to divorce, that might wake them up a bit to reality.
"Peace and Harmony"
BRITON
Ikken Hisatsu
13-Mar-2005, 10:45 PM
thankfully all my instructors have been sane, and have encouraged me to cross train to cover things they are not so great at. If my instructor told me I would have to leave his school to study at someone elses I would tell him fine, I am nobodies prison wife and can do what the hell I like.
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