Lets Talk Tae Kwon Do

[Chazz]

Ok members lets get some Tae Kwon Do talk goin’ on in here. Either about ITF/WTF, forms, tradition, tournaments, testing, school, or anything else you want. Lets Talk :cool:

[Melanie]

Ok Chazz, I know nothing about Tae Kwon Do but in addition to what we were talking about earlier re: Heian Yondan and the similarities that a form you do and this one, a few questions:

What sort of timing do you do the double hands (Haiwan Uke) at the beginning?

Do you Kiai (shout) twice aswell?

When turning into the shallow back stance (kokutsu dachi) open your arms into the tense double arm block and then go on to kick punch, punch - what interpretations of these moves do you have? (Just wondering if they differ from ours?)

That's all...for now ;)

Melanie

[Chazz]

Melanie:
Heian Yondon (we call Pyeung Han Four) Most of the moves are the same. We do all the movements on a one second count.

We Kehap (shout) four times. At the first movement, going down the middle both times and the last movement. Our version of that form ends differently. Ours are in an I formation.

The blocks we think of as if someone is coming to the head with a double hit to the head or a grab with both hands, (the spreading of the arms) the push at the begining we teach as to gain distance between you and the attacker.

I know it may be different than yours.

Thanks for the question and take care

[waya]

Chazz,
Are you an ITF or WTF practitioner? My instructor trained WTF but has altered all of our defense techniques to Hapkido techniques and retained the WTF forms. I don't have much experience with the ITF forms at all but have tried to research them a bit.

Rob

[Chazz]

Waya,
I am ITF Tae Kwon Do. Thats what i study and teach. I know some about the WTF due to having friends in it.

Chazz

[waya]

I have been looking into the ITF style of TKD a bit lately. I think (this is what I have heard) that the ITF stuck closer to the Oh Do Kwan that Gen. Choi originally founded/taught? Not sure about the truth of this, as I say it is something I have recently heard. But Oh Do Kwan and ITF-TKD are said to be the more combative forms of the art so that has sparked some interest in me.

Rob

[Chazz]

ITF is under what General Choi taught. We do the exact form that he does. When he changes them for a reason, we change. If you are looking for a Tae Kwon Do that is close to the General. That you cant get no closer than ITF, and personally i think that the best org. that is with the ITF is the ATA or the ITU, im with the ITU/ITF.

From what i seen. WTF is more of a sport TKD while ITF is more of a traditional TKD. (thats just from what i have seen)

-Chazz

[waya]

WTF is generally alot more sport oriented. The school I originally trained at taught more Olympic sparring than anything, and their performance on the Poomse was very lax. Since changing schools the only WTF thing we use is the Poomse, we do moderate sparring and Hapkido defense including joint locks, throws, and some grappling. I also train Hapkido seperately under the same instructor. But he isn't a big fan of sparring or sports in the arts so he doesn't push it.

[Chazz]

Sport fighting is great dont get me wrong. It works good for tournaments or point fighting. Extended fighting is good at well. It works on endourance. The school i teach does a lil of both. We spar by rounds, or continous, as well as by points. To me, working with all of them helps to be a better sparring compeditor.
-Chazz

[Kendo_Cougar]

I dont like Tae kwon do.. I just dont like Kicking all day. Kendo's better! but Im not saying Tae kwon di's bad, im just saying i dont like it, but its sort of cool...

[mattsylvester]

Hi Chazz

I thought that the Pyeung Han were actually Tang Soo Do/ Chung Do Kwan TKD patterns. The Chang Hun of ITF don't have them. Do you practice a mix of patterns since the Pyeung Han are actually derived from the Pinan Kata (from which the Heian are derived and from which the Chang Hun are derived)?

Do you sine wave or hip twist?

[Chazz]

Matt.
My Sr. instructor was with the Chung Do Kwan for a long time. When he started back with the Chang Hun forms we thought that we would leave Pyeung Han 4 into it. I do like the form. It is a well done form that i think that beginners should learn to do. It has moves in it that may help them in the long run.

[Naveeda]

hi melanie my name is naveeda an i am new i am in green belt what belt are you in?

[TkdWarrior]

:D lol :laugh:
-TkdWarrior-

[Helm]

Well imo ITF TKD is a soft version of TKD, comparitively to WTF.
When starting MA's people are very easily imtimidated by any "contact" and greatly fear being hurt, this is why alot of people turn to ITF when they look at WTF.

Its a little unfair to say the WTF focuses on sport, as it greatly differs school to school, and even within schools the lessons.
However, i believe you can learn a pattern perfectly with practise in a month, but sparring ability is always improving, so it makes sense to focus more on the sparring. This is the strong point of WTF, as they use body protectors, allowing full use of techniques (apart from face punches), you can take a big hit and not break any bones.

I have friends in ITF and i think they miss out greatly by only having very light, and not very much sparring experience.

Saying this, im not here to offend ppl, but whatever system you come from, its natrual to be bias towards. Anyone else from WTF?

Oh, one thing, there are so many more WTF practicioners, but whenever MA TKD forums are around, everyone is from ITF, whats that up with? =)

[waya]

From my experience in training WTF TKD, practitioners of that area are alot more close-minded to other systems and ideas.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Or alternatively it could be because whenever they do mention that they do WTF they take so much flack that they never feel like revealing their art again.

[TkdWarrior]

<Well imo ITF TKD is a soft version of TKD, comparitively to WTF.
When starting MA's people are very easily imtimidated by any "contact" and greatly fear being hurt, this is why alot of people turn to ITF when they look at WTF.>
lol i found this exactly opposite...we r the ones(ITF) who do bare knuckles hard contact, even asked once those WTF guys to do hard contact without protection they were cryin like ...
it depends upon the instructors n students...somewhere ITF is good somewhere WTF ... i hav seen Some Darn good figthers in WTF too...
well i hav felt those body protectors adds to nuisance...u can't even execute all techniques??how much is that true?
<Oh, one thing, there are so many more WTF practicioners, but whenever MA TKD forums are around, everyone is from ITF, whats that up with? =)>
this is so true...there r more WTF practioners but they never come in front...

Helm basically if u compare all over the world it's WTF which is more sport oreinted, even Gen Choi become President of ITF he kept refining TKD n kept working for ITF TKD. i hav found that WTF is doing those patterns still(patterns r not changed but the way it's done ie the shotakan way)muk do kwan is another TKD which is more traditional like ITF it depends...
just recently Master Leong told us that now in our sparring the takedowns grappling and all Hosin suls will be added(pre arranged sparring) where practioners hav to execute most of those techniques in stipulated time n that too precisely...
this would be fun :)
if u start swearing by the encylcopedia of TKD by Gen Choi, u'll become Traditional :D
-TkdWarrior-

[KarateKid1975]

TKDwarrior wrote:

<this is so true...there r more WTF practioners but they never come in front...>

I DO WTF TKD :p hehehehe. Hey I admit it. I never saw ITF, so can't judge. I did do TSD, and I think TSD is better. Very traditional as far as traning goes (less sport, more self defense).

[Helm]

Well you say bare knuckles, but it is semi contact, so its a half truth really.

The body protector has been developed over many years to be light weight to allow ALL techniques to be used, while allowing full contact to be used.

I find when sparring with ITF peeps, they very rarely use back or side kicks, because they risk injury and hard contact in ITF, its a casualty of the system. WTF can do anything ITF can do, in terms of no-protection sparring or whatever, ITF just lacks the insight that would allow it to go full contact, in that respect, and up to that point the arts are very similar.

[darlph]

You know guys, I am ITF and I think it is a matter of who your instructor is and his abilities. When I do spar, I use alot of side kicks, hook kicks, and round kicks in combinations. (thankyou Mr. Bill Wallace) WTF is probably more competitive in tournaments. I also believe it is a matter of what is available to learn in your area. If you have branches of a system in your area.....your are going to get variations of that style in your area.
Truly, one is no better than the other, because that is a matter of opinion. It is also a matter of what the individual practitioner is looking for, interested in, and good at. How many students have quit early on in a system because they couldn't get it, and then kept on trying other systems till they find one they feel they can do? It is those few with a drive who will keep on trying something till they get it right even if they fail a hundred times. A good instructor will encourage a student to overcome his failings.
An instructor with a tournament plan of action for his school will attract those competitive students right away.
One who basis his agenda on self confidence, focusing, and self improvement has those. Depends on the emphasis. And the parents. Some parents freak the first couple of times their 8 year old spars. My instructor incorporates a little from all systems into our sparring and grappling. Use what works best.
I have a ball at seminars because I am there to learn new things and also you will find those that are old hands at them do not advertise their ranks and styles and are willing to enjoy and share their knowledge with the other students.
Thank goodness, in this world we have a choice of opinion and martial art we want to practice.
I started many years ago in Kyrokoshinkye Karate and noticed right away the many similarities with TKD. Personally, neither was better because I respected and enjoyed the teachings of both instructors.
Karate kid says he likes TSD better. Why did he change?
TkdWarrior has alot of valid points. Most of the tournaments here are ITF. Where's WTF? It doesn't matter if you have a very skilled fighter in any style of TKD. If he is trained correctly and has a good knowledge of techniques, you will find he most always uses what works for him best and research his competiton before a bout to see what he is up against. Ask the old fighters, Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Chuck Norris, Cung Le{Muy Te} they watch their opponents warm up and how they stand ect. In fact, I know one of them use to check to see what the other was wearing to camoflage his glove and foot color.
I would also like to say that is is not polite to knock other styles. WE need more positive models than critics.

[TkdWarrior]

i agree with darlph i put up my point against WTF styles... n it's basically depends upon two ppl(teacher n students)...due to my exposure to complete TKD some ppl think i m doing hapkido or aikido because with the accuracy i can get with joint locks...n with the way i punch...
-TkdWarrior-

[KarateKid1975]

darlph wrote:


<You know guys, I am ITF and I think it is a matter of who your instructor is and his abilities. When I do spar, I use alot of side kicks, hook kicks, and round kicks in combinations. >

Me, too. Where I learned to do so? TSD

<WTF is probably more competitive in tournaments. I also believe it is a matter of what is available to learn in your area. If you have branches of a system in your area.....your are going to get variations of that style in your area. >

All (most anyways) schools in my area are in it for the money, not the art. Some are Mcdojangs.

<How many students have quit early on in a system because they couldn't get it, and then kept on trying other systems till they find one they feel they can do? It is those few with a drive who will keep on trying something till they get it right even if they fail a hundred times. A good instructor will encourage a student to overcome his failings. >

I had a hard time with TSD, but I stuck it out. My instructor was very encouraging. When I thought I couldn't do something, he said I could if I tried. I have good technique because of him.

<Karate kid says he likes TSD better. Why did he change?>

I'm a she. And I didn't leave TSD by choice. I had to move. I was very upset when I had to leave my TSD dojang. I still keep in contact with my friends there via email. I still train there when I visit home (NJ).

I just wanted to say that I'm not knocking TKD in general. But I do WTF now, and it IS sport. I learned more self defense at white belt in TSD (three months) than I have in TKD so far (one year). They (this TKD school) teaches falls, take-downs, ect at red belt. What !?!?!?! I learned all that at orange belt in TSD. The stuff the TKD school teaches at black belt level I learned at green and blue belt in TSD. I have my "opinions" because the TKD school gave me reasons to do so.

TKDwarrior, that's another thing I am good at. I love joint locks, take-downs, ect. But I have to practice them on my own to stay good at it, because this TKD school don't teach them till later.

If you saw my technique compared to most in this school, you would see why I have an "opinion." It's not an ego thing. It's the truth. I have good technique because of my TSD instructor, not my TKD one.

[TkdWarrior]

hi laurie i understand ur probs...as i said talk to ur instructor...
i think locking/grappling/hosin suls r not meant for BB only, i don't find this excuse good enuff from teacher :D...they should be taught...u know when i was white belt i was taught every move, every kick every punch with the senior belts... it's different i got much more than my senior in locking things :D but my prespective was complete MA.
if u don't find wat u looking for then u should totally change ur style to someone which is more into self defense...

i hav heard that ITF is introducing some strict rules about theirs style, now they'll add grappling/locking moves in sparring too(anyone correct me) then it would be quite good...
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Helm
Well imo ITF TKD is a soft version of TKD, comparitively to WTF.
When starting MA's people are very easily imtimidated by any "contact" and greatly fear being hurt, this is why alot of people turn to ITF when they look at WTF.




First off, "soft verson" of TKD??? I think you'll find the level of contact, power or force is down to the practitioner since 90% of the techinques are the same.

I think perhaps you are getting really confused or maybe haven't had the privelage of seeing a good ITF club.

IMO the difference between ITF/WTF sparring reflects the scoring method

WTF: (really brief overview) Technique must strike target with force, resulting in opponent losing balance or unable to defend for instant.

ITF: Technique must hit the target in with forcefull controlled manner.


Now I've seen (and been on the recieving end) of some of Britain and Sweden's ITF best and let me assure you the blood flies at a higher level. Now we are not talking about regional champs here. We're talking EURO'S and WORLD champions here.

Hell, I've got video evidence if anyone wants to task me to this!!

Taekwon!

[LilBunnyRabbit]

hi laurie i understand ur probs...as i said talk to ur instructor...
i think locking/grappling/hosin suls r not meant for BB only, i don't find this excuse good enuff from teacher ...they should be taught...u know when i was white belt i was taught every move, every kick every punch with the senior belts... it's different i got much more than my senior in locking things

I've never quite understood this philosophy, there's no way a white belt can understand and perform things like twisting kick effectively with no prior training, and mistakes will creep in which will last a long time. Why not start simple and build up? If you go to a maths lesson and you've never done maths before you don't really expect them to be starting on integration before explaining addition.

[Tosh]

Chopping in to the old "why are you not taught more X in TKD"

The easy answer is the KISS acronym.

KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID

Since TKD is developed along the one master one strike philosophy. The majority of what you are learning through coloured belt grades is to defend effectively so you can deliver your counter.

Joint/locking and grabbing at white belt is all very good experience but IMO most ( all) pure TKD instructors do not possess the knowledge to teach students techinques that are simple and effective. I do teach *simple* locks and escapes from grabs to all my white belts.

However, since this is not my area I can't or will not teach more complicated things untill students have a proper understanding of how thier own body reacts in situations.

I mean can you honetsly expect a white belt to effectively use complex grabs against an opponent who doesn't leave him/herself open for the techinque??

Come on!! Just watch some Aikido Randoori and see how difficult it is is the person doesn't want to be grabbed. Hope Tintin and Freeform back me up here :)

IMO coloured belt in TKD is where you learn the letters of the TKD alphabet. A B C D..... Once you get to black belt you learn to start reading.

Cheers

[TkdWarrior]

<I've never quite understood this philosophy, there's no way a white belt can understand and perform things like twisting kick effectively with no prior training, and mistakes will creep in which will last a long time. >
CKD wat ur white belt hav prior training of Muai thai ?? :D
well normally my teacher teaches everyone the same he says' if any kick u can't do it...then try it...don't totally ignore it...
BTW basically in White belt there r only 2 kicks(front rising or yup chakgee n front snap/abchabuskgee(sp??))

<Now I've seen (and been on the recieving end) of some of Britain and Sweden's ITF best and let me assure you the blood flies at a higher level.>
Now tosh spice u r speaking truth...i wasn't telling them may be find it too offensive :p my teacher fighting in world champ against No 1 fighter(damn wat was his name, he was 3 time world champ, not long back around 1997 or 98) who broke his nose, then again in another championship(asia pacific) he broke it again ...lol now he himself tells proudly about that... he calls them "Medals", he's sure very funny guy :)
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

It depends what weight category your on about for me the guy I like watching the most is probably Neil Ernest here is is knocking out on eof my students in the first 7 seconds of the bout

http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~jnm/timohdear.jpg

This was the UKTA Welsh Open 1999 open comp.

Tim got K'O'ed and then DQ'd for not being able to continue....

Now stop me if I'm wrong but is that one of these backs kicks ITF sparring doesn't include??


:woo:

[TkdWarrior]

that looks like perfect scoring shot... kicks at the back of body is treated as foul...can see why he got KO`ed..
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

If you want to see some other gruesome images of "soft" ITF TKD then please visit http://hwuts.co.uk and click on

Gallery

Viking Cup 2001

There are a couple of great photos of the results of world class "soft" ITF TKD...

P.s. ..... can you tell I'm angry at the "soft" comment yet???

Taekwon!

[TkdWarrior]

<P.s. ..... can you tell I'm angry at the "soft" comment yet???>
No...:D :p
anyone else??
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

Don't make me angry you woudln't like me when I'm Bruce Banner,


..... wait a minute that's not right :D :D :D

[KarateKid1975]

ckdstudent wrote:

<I've never quite understood this philosophy, there's no way a white belt can understand and perform things like twisting kick effectively with no prior training, and mistakes will creep in which will last a long time. Why not start simple and build up? If you go to a maths lesson and you've never done maths before you don't really expect them to be starting on integration before explaining addition.>

That's what practice and a good instructor is for ;) If you make a mistake, a good instructor will notice it and correct it. What I learned as far as self defense at white belt in TSD, was basic grab releases, wrists locks, basic pressure points, ect. It was really basic stuff. But that basic stuff is what this TKD school teaches. That's it (minus the pressure points)! Take-downs at red belt (which I learned already in TSD).

Tosh Spice wrote:

<I mean can you honetsly expect a white belt to effectively use complex grabs against an opponent who doesn't leave him/herself open for the techinque?? >

No, but it can be taught, then practiced over and over till they get it right. Which is what my TSD instructor did. Besides the basics, he would let us do other stuff just for the sake of trying it. Maybe I learned quicker than most. I picked up on the stuff very quickly (with no prior experience).

<IMO coloured belt in TKD is where you learn the letters of the TKD alphabet. A B C D..... Once you get to black belt you learn to start reading.>

What happens when one learned how to read in another style before black? Is that a bad thing?

[LilBunnyRabbit]

That's what practice and a good instructor is for If you make a mistake, a good instructor will notice it and correct it. What I learned as far as self defense at white belt in TSD, was basic grab releases, wrists locks, basic pressure points, ect. It was really basic stuff. But that basic stuff is what this TKD school teaches. That's it (minus the pressure points)! Take-downs at red belt (which I learned already in TSD).

Wouldn't it be easier though to get one technique right first, or a handful, and then move on to the next few rather than just dumping the lot on someone at once? Better one good technique than fifty poor ones.

[Andy Murray]

Sorry to cut in!

Sad old git that I am, but I was digging thru some old MA mags, and came across an article from 1991, that General Choi was going to jail for an attempted assassination.
Was this a gag, or something that really happened?

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Wouldn't be suprised actually. Which country was this in?

[Andy Murray]

Canada!

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Ah. Slightly suprising then. In Korea it would've made more sense.

[Andy Murray]

Correction..... not Choi, but his son!

From 'COMBAT Sep 1991'

T.K.D. Founders Son Gets Prison Sentence!

Although all the facts are not quite known yet, it seems that General Choi Hong Hi's (Founder of Taekwondo) son, Choi Choong Hwa has been sentenced to a six year prison term by Canadian authorities for planning the assasination of the South Korean President, Chung Doo Hwan, during a state visit to the Phillipines in the early 1980's. It has beeen said that the sum of $600,000 was arranged for the two Canadian hired killers. After residing in Poland Choi Choong Hwa returned to Canada in February 1991 and pledead guilty as charged.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Fun and games all round.

And it does make sense when you consider the political stuff in Korea.

[TkdWarrior]

i hav heard something like this, but i ain't sure..
-TkdWarrior-

[KarateKid1975]

ckdstudent wrote:

Wouldn't it be easier though to get one technique right first, or a handful, and then move on to the next few rather than just dumping the lot on someone at once? Better one good technique than fifty poor ones.

Yea, that's what he did. One or a few techs at a time till we got it right. Then he moved on to the next few while still keeping the others in practice. Some learned faster than others. He didn't pressure those who learned slowly. He worked more with those folks. I learned fast, I guess, because I trained 4 to 5 days a week. Plus he was really big into proper technique, so he didn't just show you something and leave you to learn it. He would work with you till you got it right. Even white belts were learning fast with this guy. He is an amazing instructor. That's why I still train there, eventhough I'm 300 miles away. Every two months or so, I go back and train for a coupla days to a week.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by KarateKid1975


What happens when one learned how to read in another style before black? Is that a bad thing?

No but by definition i see a "white belt" as someone who has NO previous experience of any martial art.

IMO the most important attribute ANY martial art teaches is an understanding of how the human body moves react in attack and defence situations. Without this you are just doing keep fit.

And the point I was making was it's unreasonable for a junior bbelt in TKD to effectively teach the grabs throws etc in TKD effectively to a "white belt" in TKD.

By no way was I saying a TSD instructor (since they have the experience in this field) shouldn't teach these techiques.

At the end of the day it's how much the instructor knows and how well they can teach it.

[Freeform]

Hey Tosh,


I mean can you honetsly expect a white belt to effectively use complex grabs against an opponent who doesn't leave him/herself open for the techinque??


No, I expect the white belt to get punched in the face whilst he's trying to figure out what he's done wrong.

See you around bud.

Colin

[Helm]

Ok, i think i probably generalised ITF too much for some people.
Not having done ITF only seen it, i can't comment too much.

Oh, and in that pic why isnt the kicking guy wearing a head-gaurd? And dont ITF have mats on the floor when sparring?

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Helm
Ok, i think i probably generalised ITF too much for some people.
Not having done ITF only seen it, i can't comment too much.
]

I myself have only trained a couple of times with WTF guys that's why I KNOW I can't comment :D ... although I have watched WTF sparring again and again (and have picked up some nifty tricks too)

[
Oh, and in that pic why isnt the kicking guy wearing a head-gaurd? And dont ITF have mats on the floor when sparring?

Mats are usually a luxury at these regional events. In order to keep the price of entry down mats are usually not used.

It is now written to the UKTA regs. that all competitors *must* wear a headguard. Obviously this was brought in to counter-act the dangers of sparring with no headgaurd and no mats.

Full international ITF rules state for BBelt competitors headgaurds are NOT permitted but optional for coloured belt competitors. Since the guy not wearing a headguard is world class ITF (and has dabbled in WTF) and this was only the first round, I guess he knew what he was doing :D

P.s. It's Neil Ernest doing the kicking

[TkdWarrior]

<Full international ITF rules state for BBelt competitors headgaurds are NOT permitted but optional for coloured belt competitors.>
it's true in ITF only gloves, groin gaurd sometimes shin pads r allowed, they don't wear protective gears cuz it hinders the motion
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

Hey TKD warrior,


What do you think of the new scorings for the "perfect block" that are being phased in??

A recap for everyone else, now you will gain 1 point for esssentially blocking the techiques in the correct stance, with correct tool that shifts the balance of your opponent.


Thoughts please!! Good or Bad thing??

[johndoch]

Complicated scoring systems dont work. Take pro boxing for example, for certain organisations, (ie WBO/WBA/IBF etc cant remember which?) in a match you should get points for making your opponent miss but judges never score a fight that way, as it can be to fast just trying to keep up with the shots that land never mind counting the blocks as well.

[Tosh]

I'm actually really - really surprised that someone has not come up with a fencing-like electronic scoring system for TKD.

Surely we have the technology to do this at reasonable cost??

[TkdWarrior]

<What do you think of the new scorings for the "perfect block" that are being phased in??>
it's complicated but it will ensure good habbits in practitioners...
most of my freinds are on totally counter strike or offensive habbits...when u put them in back seat they r totally useless...
here's rules for Defense(perfect block) scored 1 Point:
1. Defender must maintain complete balance.
2. An appropriate Blocking tool must be used.
3. Block must be powerful and accurate.
4. defense must be maintained at a proper distance.
5. Opponents's balance must be broken
this information comes from short hand book from TAI(Taekwon-do Association of India) registered with ITF. n it was in the rules from last 2-3 years but never seen used much...
the technology will cost too much i guess
hey Tosh u hav heard the New pre arranged sparring rules(now this will be in competition) now u hav to demonstrate most of ur tools(kicks/punches/blocks/counters/grabbing/takedowns/etc)
and u hav to demostrate in some stipulated time...
this information was provided by Master Leong wei meng(VIII dan) to my teacher...i think this would be fantastic idea...ITF is thinking this to include ...u hav any knowledge...
-TkdWarrior-

[Tosh]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior

this information was provided by Master Leong wei meng(VIII dan) to my teacher...i think this would be fantastic idea...ITF is thinking this to include ...u hav any knowledge...
-TkdWarrior-

I know for a fact Grandmaster Rhee doesn't believe in competition sparring as it exists now.

Traditional/ Model sparring IMO is a great idea :D. Depending on who you listen too "they" are pushing for both ITF TKD with Model sparring for the olympics.

Persoanllay, I would like to see TKD take more of a gymnastic form. I.e. competitors perform in each category in teams. Power, Model sparring, Team patterns, Special Technique and Competition sparring to round off the event. Rather than just seeing competitors that only specialise in one event we would see the full range of abilities TKD exponents have.

Who do yuo think has the best TKD performers incidentely?? I have heard that the argentinians are excellent and I've witnessed the Polish team first hand I'm afraid :eek:

[TkdWarrior]

<Rather than just seeing competitors that only specialise in one event we would see the full range of abilities TKD exponents have.>
that would be nice idea...
I know GM Rhee hates this..my teacher hav trained with him :D
i not much into International competitions these days(dont hav latest news) but i believe argentinians always hav good competitive team, no idea about polish...
tho my fav was one russian girl long back :D ;)
-TkdWarrior-

[Helm]

Hmm, well an electrontic scoring system would be a good idea in theory, only when you get into a 'clinch' situation, u could, in theory, score points but just touching your opponent. I assume ur talking about sensors on the body, picking up impact.

I know in the competitions i've been to in Plymouth, and soon the one im going to in Manchester, they have electronic scoring, each of the 4 judges in the corner has a buzzer, and when they think a point has been scored they press the button, if the majority of judges press the button 3/4 then its a point, and its registers on the scoreboard. They also have a paper sheet to record scores, to reference at the end of the round, which is given to the jury at the table of 3 people.

I know this sometimes helps me, if i see im loosing by 2 points, i can go fo a headshot (2 points in WTF) and an additional point if he needs an 8 count.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Helm
Hmm, well an electrontic scoring system would be a good idea in theory, only when you get into a 'clinch' situation, u could, in theory, score points but just touching your opponent. I assume ur talking about sensors on the body, picking up impact.


Well surely WTF points are only scored when a good deal of power is applied -> Therefore adjust the sensor appropriately.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

The difficulties of designing such a system would make it nigh-on impossible. You'd need to design sensors that could flex, pick up impacts to specific areas only when of a certain power, tell the different between a block and a hit, tell when someone's just pulled their arm in and caught one of the sensors, make them tough enough to withstand the impact easily, and more.

[Helm]

Jap, exactly, then you'd have the "messing with the sensors" from the coach between rounds. The logistics are too numerous to work imo.
If it aint broke, dont fix it ;-)

[Tosh]

Originally posted by ckdstudent
The difficulties of designing such a system would make it nigh-on impossible.

Come on! You obviously are not much of a physisict if this is nigh on impossible!!

Force-feedback sensors for VR gloves have had this abililty for years... Now cost is another thing.

Sensore these days can be designing to do the following:


1) Flex
2) Could b redesigned to pick up impact notice these arcades with the punch bags - not much advance in technology there.

3) 9 times out of ten you do not block with an attacking area that is legal anyway.

4) Pick up impacts to specific areas??? Seperate sensors in the armour!!


For gods sake people think to the future! We can already graft silicon chips to eyes and attach metal arms to shoulder to react with muscles.

Without going on about conspiracy theories what do you think goes on at R&D in the superpower countries????

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Come on! You obviously are not much of a physisict if this is nigh on impossible!!

I'm mildly insulted at this. What exactly did you study that you can say how good or bad a physicist I am?


Force-feedback sensors for VR gloves have had this abililty for years... Now cost is another thing.

Yes, but then again they don't have to also take heavy impacts and be powered from a compact remote source (unless you wanna plug all the combatants into the mains or make them wear car batteries.


Could b redesigned to pick up impact notice these arcades with the punch bags - not much advance in technology there.

They measure the speed with which the bag is knocked down, not the force. Keeping the system small you'd have to build some form of pressure sensor, but this would mean that you'd have to make the underlying material rigid in order to get an accurate measure and not allow the impact to be absorbed by the wearer, which means you're hitting a rigid target.


For gods sake people think to the future! We can already graft silicon chips to eyes and attach metal arms to shoulder to react with muscles.

Which is a completely different matter. We're talking about making a removable suit that is flexible, can take heavy impacts, can spot the area of those impacts, can be powered from a small, light power source, can transmit points to a central system, can avoid restricting movement, can tell the force of the impacts it was hit with, and all in a thickness no more than modern padding at the most.

How about this. Rather than being nigh-on impossible it just isn't worth the fortune it would cost in research, design and production and no one's going to be doing it any time soon.

[Tosh]

Jimmy, Jimmy, Jimmy.... :D

Originally posted by ckdstudent

I'm mildly insulted at this. What exactly did you study that you can say how good or bad a physicist I am?


Sorry if your insulted you :p .You just don't seem very confident in technology!

Me personally?? I currenly doing an MSc in Distributed Multimedia Systems/ Interactive Multimedia after completing 2 years research in 3G Telecommunication and Network software after a dissertation in RF Artefacts for an Honours Degree in Computer Science. Also one of my students, who I've discussed this in great depth, has just finished his PhD in Optically Interconnected Computing Systems. My Assistant Instructor is also completing an MSc in Embedded Systems Engineering.

Do a google search Jimmy. They use RF pressure sensors on the eye for gods sake!

So I know the technology exists and that is is possible. Fair point with the cost to make it perfect (which i have already conceded to in my first post... :o ). But were talking about a first version here of something that's never been done before. Stop moaning about how hard it is.....


How about this. Rather than being nigh-on impossible....


Again with the impossible Jimmy. How do you bear to get up in the morning?? :Angel:

[gingerninja]

You could infact coat the gi or dobak in a conductive polymer such PEDOT or PSS these are conductive polymers whose conductive properties change when physical stress or changes in the coating layer is changed i.e. when a region is hit. The required microelectronics could also be made from this material therefore the only bulk electronics would be the battery and the transmitter.

Trust me it would work, I used to work for a company that develops devices that use polymers for displays and other devices.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Nigh-on impossible, and I always take into account all factors rather than just saying that its a prototype and so the cost can be ignored. To be commercially profitable it needs to be mass-produced and mass-sold, which isn't going to be happening any time soon.

With these polymers though (private interest for an idea I had some time ago) how accurately can you control their thresholds?

[Tosh]

Originally posted by ckdstudent
Nigh-on impossible, and I always take into account all factors rather than just saying that its a prototype and so the cost can be ignored.

No, YOU ARE saying it would cost a lot to mass-produce...... and cost reduces along the time-line as components get cheaper/smaller. I never-ever said it wouldn't cost a fortune. I said I was surprised it hasn't ben investigated/ attempted.

Anyway by definition research is involved in "proof of concept" not a commercially viable product.

I know this as big companies apply to the EU for partner funding for a "Research Project" with a university. After the project ends the get a full research report which cost them nothing which the can bass any risk assesment reports on.

You said it was impossible....c'mon Jimmy admit to me its possible!!! :p

[TkdWarrior]

darn those physicsts :D
-TkdWarrior-

[LilBunnyRabbit]

You said it was impossible....c'mon Jimmy admit to me its possible!!!

Nigh-on-impossible means very difficult, it doesn't mean impossible. I never said it was impossible, just very difficult.

[Tosh]

He-he okay nearly impossible... but I think we've proved it's VERY possible!!

I know!!! You could try to build it to the best of YOUR abilities. Then if it fails I'll concede it's nigh-on impossible :D

[Infesticon #1]

I had a point, but I forgot it after all this talk of physics :p


Oh yes, I'm a recent beginner and so far I've learnt more punches than I've learnt kicks so I can't say that all I do is kick every lesson.

I've learnt the front snap kick, side kick and the turning kick.

and the punch, knife hand strike, back fist, and two I can't remember the names of, one was with a hand like the knife hand, but you used the side of the hand near the thumb, with the thumb tucked under. the other is the palm strike?


Also, my front snap kick is totally feeble could anyone give me some pointers on it? a different perspective is always helpful.