Endurance vs Mass

[Slindsay]

Which one would win in a NHB fight?

Seriously though, how do you train for muscular endurance, I get the impression it's with many sets at quite high reps but I also thought that was the way you trained to bulk up and I assume there are actually two distinct trainning methodologies here?

I'm curious because at the moment I feel strong enough for Judo as I can pick people my size up and throw them around but over the period of a five minute match I really start to loose my ability to grip people and with that I loose a lot of my chances to use the strength I have developed. The same also applies to my core strength, legs and the like, I can pick people up once or twice but I start to tire after that, I know this is in part a cardio thing but I think I lack endurance as well.

[Fenrir]

Muscular endurance is built through higher rep counts yep, I hate giving specific numbers though because I dont think that there exists a magical barrier whereby something becomes endurace work. Most people seem to recon 15+ reps for endurance work, training specifically for size requires slightly lower reps like 6-8.

Check out Crossfit.com and try and work in a few metcon workouts a week, theyll take your muscular endurance through the roof :D

Some specific grip training might help aswell (Gi Pullups for specifity?) if your grip is getting tired.

[Suhosthe]

Most people seem to recon 15+ reps for endurance work, training specifically for size requires slightly lower reps like 6-8.My trainer swears by 8-12 for growth.

Have to say though, all this mass-debating wears me out. :Angel:

[bwhite55]

10+ is generally used for endurance. common routines for strength/mass are 5x5, pyramids, 4x6, 4x8, etc.

[Incredible Bulk]

My trainer swears by 8-12 for growth.

Have to say though, all this mass-debating wears me out. :Angel:

different strokes for different folks.
I'm built on 6-7 reps, look at the link below ;) :)

[narcsarge]

Fenrir and I.B. have summed it up. Muscle endurance training is done with higher reps and lower weights and usually, shortened rest periods. Since you say you already have strength, I would only include 1 heavy workout every week and make the others geared to endurance training. Try different rep ranges and find one that is right for you. You may also have hit a key point mentioning cardio conditioning. Nothing sapps strength faster then getting winded.

[bwhite55]

i forgot about alot of people who don't seperate endurance and strength and believe this is the same thing. some hold to a belief that as you get stronger your endurance goes up. just as an example. somebody who has a 1RM of 305 is naturally not gonna be able to rep 225 as much as somebody who has a 1RM of say 395. again, that's what alot of people say, but when we used to do burnouts w/ say 5 10's in highschool, i was right up there w/ the guys bench 100+ more than me, and almost finished it, which is really good considering i haven't been lifting for long at all at the time. i was like 7 reps away! anyway, there are many theories and beliefs. i'd do some research and see what works best for you.

[Slindsay]

So we're talking about something in the region of 10 plus reps over what sort of amount of sets?

With a short (Less than 30 second) rest period?

I'll play around with that as a starting point anyway and see what the affect is, cheers guys.

[bwhite55]

So we're talking about something in the region of 10 plus reps over what sort of amount of sets?

With a short (Less than 30 second) rest period?

I'll play around with that as a starting point anyway and see what the affect is, cheers guys.

if you wanna get a more intense workout, yes less than 30 seconds, if you wanna go heavier wait about a minute or so(people use 2 mins sometimes, but your body really doesn't do anything more than a minute.)

[Incredible Bulk]

if you wanna go heavier wait about a minute or so(people use 2 mins sometimes, but your body really doesn't do anything more than a minute.)

can i have a link to your source of info on this please? :)

i've been caught out and been bugged by people talking to me in between sets and soemtimes 5 minutes can fly by... when i jump back under the weight it goes up as easy as it did on the first set when technically i would of been struggling as it was my 3rd set.

[bwhite55]

can i have a link to your source of info on this please? :)

i've been caught out and been bugged by people talking to me in between sets and soemtimes 5 minutes can fly by... when i jump back under the weight it goes up as easy as it did on the first set when technically i would of been struggling as it was my 3rd set.

its just what i've been taught for the past 7 years. :)

and i feel that its just as easy for me after 5 mins as it is after 1 minute. so, i keep it to about a minute.

[Incredible Bulk]

i keep mine to around 3 minutes for the bigger exercises such as cleans, squats and deadlift due to their impact on the whole body

smaller exercises such curls, press etc i give about 1-2 min

[bwhite55]

i keep mine to around 3 minutes for the bigger exercises such as cleans, squats and deadlift due to their impact on the whole body

smaller exercises such curls, press etc i give about 1-2 min

ah, gotcha, that kinda makes sense.

[Suhosthe]

its just what i've been taught for the past 7 years. :)

and i feel that its just as easy for me after 5 mins as it is after 1 minute. so, i keep it to about a minute.
I find every second counts. If I cut a minutes rest short by even as little as 10 seconds, then I struggle more than I would have done, often failing significantly sooner. Keeping that reduction in rest time up over an entire session has a massive effect on me. Just as I know that doubling even one rest period to 2 minutes refreshes me like nothing else.

Recently, Cosmic and I trained together for the first time in a long while, and his rest periods were significantly reduced (he often takes as long as 5 minutes between sets), as mine were significantly increased (I rarely rest longer than a minute and I'm fond of supersetting). The pace felt weird for both of us, but, speaking for myself, I found that it made an enormous difference to how easy the work out felt.

How you feel really affects your mindset. I was lifting like superwoman, that day. Well, sort of.

different strokes for different folks.Verily. :D

[Oculus]

Rests are important for definite, too many times I’ve not rested long enough and then became very ill, especially with squats and dead lifts. Found that even resting for another 30 seconds drastically improved my form and I stopped feeling like I needed to hurl.
I found reading "How to Design a Damn Good Programme, part 1 and part 2 helped me get to grips with rest times.
Slindsay i would get your aerobic and anaerobic respiration levels up, even if you are super fit it’s not going to make the problem worse. More efficient your heart the better fed your muscles are going to be.
Also train for strength so aim for 4 or 5 sets with lower reps, like the incredible bulk. The stronger you are, the less exertion your muscles will face so activities will be easier. Also iv found that calisthenics can help my muscular endurance and push ups and pull ups will help your core for sure. Pull or chin ups will also help with your grip. Also if you want your core to be strong, forget about Swiss balls and bosu boards, get yourself some kettle bells and do more planks, side bridges and weighted squats.
Depending on time and money situations a nice bit of rock climbing would certainly help and its good fun unless you don’t like heights.

[Prophet]

Sorry to hijack but, is there any validity in thinking I could get away with shorter rest times then most, because I've been a sprinter all my life, and my anaerobic endurance is quite good? I say this because I find 45 seconds rest to be all I need. Allthough I take 2 mins between exersises.

Basically, I ask does intense anaerobic conditioning have a direct crossover to how much rest between sets you can handle?

[bwhite55]

Sorry to hijack but, is there any validity in thinking I could get away with shorter rest times then most, because I've been a sprinter all my life, and my anaerobic endurance is quite good? I say this because I find 45 seconds rest to be all I need. Allthough I take 2 mins between exersises.

Basically, I ask does intense anaerobic conditioning have a direct crossover to how much rest between sets you can handle?

try it and see what happens. like i said earlier, the short break as opposed to long break is just what i was taught. i've experimented w/ both quite a bit, and i see absolutely no difference in energy levels or easiness of sets between a min or so and 2-3 mins, altho some people obviously do. i do see a difference between 30 secs and a minute tho. just experiment and see what's best for you.

[Slindsay]

Rests are important for definite, too many times I’ve not rested long enough and then became very ill, especially with squats and dead lifts. Found that even resting for another 30 seconds drastically improved my form and I stopped feeling like I needed to hurl.
I found reading "How to Design a Damn Good Programme, part 1 and part 2 helped me get to grips with rest times.
Slindsay i would get your aerobic and anaerobic respiration levels up, even if you are super fit it’s not going to make the problem worse. More efficient your heart the better fed your muscles are going to be.
Also train for strength so aim for 4 or 5 sets with lower reps, like the incredible bulk. The stronger you are, the less exertion your muscles will face so activities will be easier. Also iv found that calisthenics can help my muscular endurance and push ups and pull ups will help your core for sure. Pull or chin ups will also help with your grip. Also if you want your core to be strong, forget about Swiss balls and bosu boards, get yourself some kettle bells and do more planks, side bridges and weighted squats.
Depending on time and money situations a nice bit of rock climbing would certainly help and its good fun unless you don’t like heights.

Yeah, I find my lifting is massively affected by how much time I spend resting between sets, I was doing the Bill Star 5x5 program before I stopped training for about 4-5 weeks, normally that doesn't have a huge affect on my lifts but now when I did 3 sets of 8 reps at a dramatically reduced weight I struggled mainly because of the short rest time I think.

I'm going bouldering at an indoor wall once a week at the moment as well, the only problem is I'm way to heavy and it completely destroys my grips for Judo or weight training but it is excellent training for grappling.