Scottish Martial Arts

[angacam]

Are there any remaining traditional scottish martial arts? I have a student who is asking me about this, especially stick fighting.

[Stolenbjorn]

Check out some of the threads on the wma-subforum, I think someone have posted info on this allready (and those that knows will surely soon come to your rescue on this thread). :)

[stephenk]

It's mostly head-butting and then kicking them when they're on the ground.

[Polar Bear]

Are there any remaining traditional scottish martial arts? I have a student who is asking me about this, especially stick fighting.

There are many projects on reconstructing scottish martial arts. In Scotland we have Louie Pastore who is working hard on such things as Highland Dirk, Single Stick and others.
In the States you have people like Dale Seago or The Cateran Society.

The Bear.

[Studude67]

It's mostly head-butting and then kicking them when they're on the ground.

you have just made my day hahaha

[RAbid Hamster]

Myself and Steel Bonnet (on another forum) have investigated scottish martial arts quite intensively and I would like to share our research with you here today...

The basic scottish martial art is known as Weejitsu.
The rules are simple:
Brightly decorated costume- only the finest shellsuits by the best sports suppliers will do (Kappa being a traditional favourite).
Badly balanced weapons- ashtrays, beer glasses etc. Chibs are reserved for F*k-u (see later). These should be thrown close too, but not at, the rival group.

Ritual combat- lots of leaning on lamp posts until the rivals come along. Taunting from a distance, running close but not so close as to be in danger. The idea is that the two rival leaders ought to get into shoving range but rely on the fact that their respective mates will pull them apart in the nick of time- usually by the hoods of their shell suits.

Traditional posture and calls- the sleeves of the shell suit jacket ought to have been ritually pulled down to their elbows, trapping the person's own arms. The hands are raised palms inwards and the age-old rallying cry of "Yer Ma!" is shouted.The correct reply is "Yer Ma's Ma!", "Smell ya Ma!" and so on. Think of street Sumo.This continues until the police arrive.

F*k-U
This is the traditional streeet fighting form of Scotland. It involves much alcohol, lots of headbutting and ends with lots of kicking your rival on the floor. Chibs are allowed (indeed expected in some quarters) and is a "true" martial art, unlike Weejitsu, which is a junior sport form. Two large women should stand to one side hurling abuse at each other and calling the traditional cry of "Tam/Shug/Rab. Leave him. He's nae worth it!". The participants should be the best of pals by the following week's drinking.

Kappa Wearer
The dance form of Scotland's Ned-can-do. Take a large amount of eccies and eggs before going out. Down a bottle of Buckfast and enter a nightclub- preferably underage. Proceed to throw up on the dance floor and burl about in yer own vomit doing that dance that you saw them doing in Ibiza on the TV.
If you bump into a bloke, lear until they challenge you to a bout of Weejitsu. If it is female assess her social status by the number of scrunchies in her hair and the amount of 9ct gold she has on her hands and ears. This will give a good indication as to her benefits income which will lead to some more beer money for you and a new wean for her.

West Coast Weejistu variations includes the 'square go' where an initial disagreement between two neds leads to one on one combat surrounded by the in-duh-viduals associated gangs. This is the rarest form of combat because as soon as one combatant starts to '***** himself', his friends will jump in leading to a free for all. This is effectively an unarmed Rami.

The 'Rami'
Basically Weejitsu for small unit tactics. Here a small grouping will take on another grouping. This is likely to be from another geographic area ie 20 yards up the road or because they support another soccer team (usually having religious ties). Weapons are required and will include
- a 'bit of wid' (usually recovered from a skip or dumpster likely to be from a skirting board)
- a hammer (nicked from ma da's toolkit - the loss of which will take some explaining)
- a baseball bat - wits baseball? a game or sommat?
- a 9 iron or putter

Combat tactics follow traditional lines where each side faces off with the combatants in the front rank (in loose skirmish order) and their slags following on behind in a tight group with their arms crossed across their chests. This formation parallels that of many medieval asiatic horsearcher tribes. There will be posturing/abuse/pretend attacks until one side decides it is either outnumbered, outmanoeuvred or just shites itself. It will begin a slow retreat back towards its home turf. The other side will advance shouting abuse and taunting but not advancing too fast ... just in case they should accidentally catch up with the retreaters. About this stage the police (called by local residents) will arrive, possibly with helicopter support. The neds will now flee, scattering with everyman for himself. Weapons will be thrown away. For those who had their fathers/brothers/uncles putter/9 iron/hammer there will be some hasty explaining later.
Those taken by the polis (pronounced poe-lis) should under no account grass up (inform upon) their mates ... for at least 1 hour giving them a chance to find an alibi. Unfortunately this will usually involve hiding in the coal shed/wheelie bin/in the loft and then claiming 'I never done nothin like' when discovered.

Thank you for reading our treatise on Scottish Martial Arts
Rabid Hamster

[Stolenbjorn]

:love: This actually seemed pretty similar to traditional Norwegian martial arts, perhaps we should start a Scotland and Norwegian ma-comparison-thread? :D

[Kogusoku]

Myself and Steel Bonnet (on another forum) have investigated scottish martial arts quite intensively and I would like to share our research with you here today...

The basic scottish martial art is known as Weejitsu.
The rules are simple:
Brightly decorated costume- only the finest shellsuits by the best sports suppliers will do (Kappa being a traditional favourite).
Badly balanced weapons- ashtrays, beer glasses etc. Chibs are reserved for F*k-u (see later). These should be thrown close too, but not at, the rival group.

Ritual combat- lots of leaning on lamp posts until the rivals come along. Taunting from a distance, running close but not so close as to be in danger. The idea is that the two rival leaders ought to get into shoving range but rely on the fact that their respective mates will pull them apart in the nick of time- usually by the hoods of their shell suits.

Traditional posture and calls- the sleeves of the shell suit jacket ought to have been ritually pulled down to their elbows, trapping the person's own arms. The hands are raised palms inwards and the age-old rallying cry of "Yer Ma!" is shouted.The correct reply is "Yer Ma's Ma!", "Smell ya Ma!" and so on. Think of street Sumo.This continues until the police arrive.

F*k-U
This is the traditional streeet fighting form of Scotland. It involves much alcohol, lots of headbutting and ends with lots of kicking your rival on the floor. Chibs are allowed (indeed expected in some quarters) and is a "true" martial art, unlike Weejitsu, which is a junior sport form. Two large women should stand to one side hurling abuse at each other and calling the traditional cry of "Tam/Shug/Rab. Leave him. He's nae worth it!". The participants should be the best of pals by the following week's drinking.

Kappa Wearer
The dance form of Scotland's Ned-can-do. Take a large amount of eccies and eggs before going out. Down a bottle of Buckfast and enter a nightclub- preferably underage. Proceed to throw up on the dance floor and burl about in yer own vomit doing that dance that you saw them doing in Ibiza on the TV.
If you bump into a bloke, lear until they challenge you to a bout of Weejitsu. If it is female assess her social status by the number of scrunchies in her hair and the amount of 9ct gold she has on her hands and ears. This will give a good indication as to her benefits income which will lead to some more beer money for you and a new wean for her.

West Coast Weejistu variations includes the 'square go' where an initial disagreement between two neds leads to one on one combat surrounded by the in-duh-viduals associated gangs. This is the rarest form of combat because as soon as one combatant starts to '***** himself', his friends will jump in leading to a free for all. This is effectively an unarmed Rami.

The 'Rami'
Basically Weejitsu for small unit tactics. Here a small grouping will take on another grouping. This is likely to be from another geographic area ie 20 yards up the road or because they support another soccer team (usually having religious ties). Weapons are required and will include
- a 'bit of wid' (usually recovered from a skip or dumpster likely to be from a skirting board)
- a hammer (nicked from ma da's toolkit - the loss of which will take some explaining)
- a baseball bat - wits baseball? a game or sommat?
- a 9 iron or putter

Combat tactics follow traditional lines where each side faces off with the combatants in the front rank (in loose skirmish order) and their slags following on behind in a tight group with their arms crossed across their chests. This formation parallels that of many medieval asiatic horsearcher tribes. There will be posturing/abuse/pretend attacks until one side decides it is either outnumbered, outmanoeuvred or just shites itself. It will begin a slow retreat back towards its home turf. The other side will advance shouting abuse and taunting but not advancing too fast ... just in case they should accidentally catch up with the retreaters. About this stage the police (called by local residents) will arrive, possibly with helicopter support. The neds will now flee, scattering with everyman for himself. Weapons will be thrown away. For those who had their fathers/brothers/uncles putter/9 iron/hammer there will be some hasty explaining later.
Those taken by the polis (pronounced poe-lis) should under no account grass up (inform upon) their mates ... for at least 1 hour giving them a chance to find an alibi. Unfortunately this will usually involve hiding in the coal shed/wheelie bin/in the loft and then claiming 'I never done nothin like' when discovered.

Thank you for reading our treatise on Scottish Martial Arts
Rabid Hamster

Absolutely spot on! :D

[Polar Bear]

:love: This actually seemed pretty similar to traditional Norwegian martial arts, perhaps we should start a Scotland and Norwegian ma-comparison-thread? :D

Nah, we tried that some 1400 years ago and all we ended up with was ginger hair.

The Bear.

[Mano Mano]

Myself and Steel Bonnet (on another forum) have investigated scottish martial arts quite intensively and I would like to share our research with you here today...

The basic scottish martial art is known as Weejitsu.
The rules are simple:
Brightly decorated costume- only the finest shellsuits by the best sports suppliers will do (Kappa being a traditional favourite).
Badly balanced weapons- ashtrays, beer glasses etc. Chibs are reserved for F*k-u (see later). These should be thrown close too, but not at, the rival group.

Ritual combat- lots of leaning on lamp posts until the rivals come along. Taunting from a distance, running close but not so close as to be in danger. The idea is that the two rival leaders ought to get into shoving range but rely on the fact that their respective mates will pull them apart in the nick of time- usually by the hoods of their shell suits.

Traditional posture and calls- the sleeves of the shell suit jacket ought to have been ritually pulled down to their elbows, trapping the person's own arms. The hands are raised palms inwards and the age-old rallying cry of "Yer Ma!" is shouted.The correct reply is "Yer Ma's Ma!", "Smell ya Ma!" and so on. Think of street Sumo.This continues until the police arrive.

F*k-U
This is the traditional streeet fighting form of Scotland. It involves much alcohol, lots of headbutting and ends with lots of kicking your rival on the floor. Chibs are allowed (indeed expected in some quarters) and is a "true" martial art, unlike Weejitsu, which is a junior sport form. Two large women should stand to one side hurling abuse at each other and calling the traditional cry of "Tam/Shug/Rab. Leave him. He's nae worth it!". The participants should be the best of pals by the following week's drinking.

Kappa Wearer
The dance form of Scotland's Ned-can-do. Take a large amount of eccies and eggs before going out. Down a bottle of Buckfast and enter a nightclub- preferably underage. Proceed to throw up on the dance floor and burl about in yer own vomit doing that dance that you saw them doing in Ibiza on the TV.
If you bump into a bloke, lear until they challenge you to a bout of Weejitsu. If it is female assess her social status by the number of scrunchies in her hair and the amount of 9ct gold she has on her hands and ears. This will give a good indication as to her benefits income which will lead to some more beer money for you and a new wean for her.

West Coast Weejistu variations includes the 'square go' where an initial disagreement between two neds leads to one on one combat surrounded by the in-duh-viduals associated gangs. This is the rarest form of combat because as soon as one combatant starts to '***** himself', his friends will jump in leading to a free for all. This is effectively an unarmed Rami.

The 'Rami'
Basically Weejitsu for small unit tactics. Here a small grouping will take on another grouping. This is likely to be from another geographic area ie 20 yards up the road or because they support another soccer team (usually having religious ties). Weapons are required and will include
- a 'bit of wid' (usually recovered from a skip or dumpster likely to be from a skirting board)
- a hammer (nicked from ma da's toolkit - the loss of which will take some explaining)
- a baseball bat - wits baseball? a game or sommat?
- a 9 iron or putter

Combat tactics follow traditional lines where each side faces off with the combatants in the front rank (in loose skirmish order) and their slags following on behind in a tight group with their arms crossed across their chests. This formation parallels that of many medieval asiatic horsearcher tribes. There will be posturing/abuse/pretend attacks until one side decides it is either outnumbered, outmanoeuvred or just shites itself. It will begin a slow retreat back towards its home turf. The other side will advance shouting abuse and taunting but not advancing too fast ... just in case they should accidentally catch up with the retreaters. About this stage the police (called by local residents) will arrive, possibly with helicopter support. The neds will now flee, scattering with everyman for himself. Weapons will be thrown away. For those who had their fathers/brothers/uncles putter/9 iron/hammer there will be some hasty explaining later.
Those taken by the polis (pronounced poe-lis) should under no account grass up (inform upon) their mates ... for at least 1 hour giving them a chance to find an alibi. Unfortunately this will usually involve hiding in the coal shed/wheelie bin/in the loft and then claiming 'I never done nothin like' when discovered.

Thank you for reading our treatise on Scottish Martial Arts
Rabid Hamster

Sounds similar to the Charva fighting systems as practiced on Tyneside & Northumbria except they tend to use the Lambrini wine & white Cider.

[Louie]

Are there any remaining traditional scottish martial arts? I have a student who is asking me about this, especially stick fighting.

Hi Mano Mano...
Before Rabid Hamster adds the Scottish MA 'Grenoch' made famous by Monty Python... :D

To answer your question - YES! Single-stick which is a Great British martial Art was practiced by groups in Edinburgh (many of the instructors had a military background) well into the 20th Century. It was continued by Scotland's olympic coach as a training aid to the sabre and at least two leading Western MA instructors trained with him in the 1980's.

There's also an old Highland 'Dirk Dance' preserved in Canada which can be demonstrated with a dirk dagger or single-sticks and resembles a 'kata'. It was brought back to the UK in the 1970's by a traditional dance researcher (I had the pleasure of learning it from his only pupil)

Another link to possible Scottish MA is Dirk dagger sparring which was taught to a veteran traditional highland wrestling coach.

Then there's Irish stick, I trained with Irishman John Ramsay who enlightened me on the use of a blackthorn cudgel - a bit like long-handled axe fighting!

Louie

(Pic below shows me learning the Dirk Dance)

[Mano Mano]

Although not specifically on Scottish martial arts I did come across this book from 1840 (http://www.google.co.uk/books?id=u98DAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA66&dq=wrestling+single+stick+defensive#PPP7,M1) on google books. It does contain some Irish shilaleh & single stick boxing & wrestling

[Devon]

There's also Backhold, which is a Scottish style of wrestling - http://www.scotwrestle.co.uk/

[TheMadhoose]

Hi Mano Mano...
Before Rabid Hamster adds the Scottish MA 'Grenoch' made famous by Monty Python... :D

To answer your question - YES! Single-stick which is a Great British martial Art was practiced by groups in Edinburgh (many of the instructors had a military background) well into the 20th Century. It was continued by Scotland's olympic coach as a training aid to the sabre and at least two leading Western MA instructors trained with him in the 1980's.

There's also an old Highland 'Dirk Dance' preserved in Canada which can be demonstrated with a dirk dagger or single-sticks and resembles a 'kata'. It was brought back to the UK in the 1970's by a traditional dance researcher (I had the pleasure of learning it from his only pupil)

Another link to possible Scottish MA is Dirk dagger sparring which was taught to a veteran traditional highland wrestling coach.

Then there's Irish stick, I trained with Irishman John Ramsay who enlightened me on the use of a blackthorn cudgel - a bit like long-handled axe fighting!

Louie

(Pic below shows me learning the Dirk Dance)


is that davie gillies dojang??

[Louie]

Although not specifically on Scottish martial arts I did come across this book from 1840 (http://www.google.co.uk/books?id=u98DAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA66&dq=wrestling+single+stick+defensive#PPP7,M1) on google books. It does contain some Irish shilaleh & single stick boxing & wrestling

Hi Mano Mano....

Yes.... Donald Walker's book is a good source for researching UK & Irish MA, the Irish stick is similar to the version I was shown, the wrestling is similair to traditional Scottish Backhold and ties in with some of the leg locks, trips and sweeps found in the Dirk Dance and the Broadsword instructions are similiar to those found in Scottish manuals.

The version of singlestick shown in Walker's book is of the type that would have been practiced at local fairs and markets throughout the UK and in the US where a president or two practiced the art.

Here are a few books which go into some detail regarding the martial arts that were taught in Scotland:
http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=1491
http://www.amazon.com/Highland-Broadsword-Scottish-Regimental-Swordsmanship/dp/1891448218
http://www.amazon.com/Highland-Swordsmanship-Techniques-Scottish-Masters/dp/1891448153/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b/105-9631849-0073222

Louie

[Louie]

is that davie gillies dojang??

Hi Madhoose...

Yes it was Davie's place.... !!!

Louie

[angacam]

How does the Irish stick work compare to the Scottish? We have almost finished arraingments with Mr. Glenn Doyle to give a seminar on Rince an Bhata Uisce Bheatha, I want to be a bit better informed as to the differences if any between this and any Scottish variations.

Thanks for all the good info so far, I still need to look at all of the links.

[Mano Mano]

Hi Mano Mano....

Yes.... Donald Walker's book is a good source for researching UK & Irish MA, the Irish stick is similar to the version I was shown, the wrestling is similair to traditional Scottish Backhold and ties in with some of the leg locks, trips and sweeps found in the Dirk Dance and the Broadsword instructions are similiar to those found in Scottish manuals.

The version of singlestick shown in Walker's book is of the type that would have been practiced at local fairs and markets throughout the UK and in the US where a president or two practiced the art.

Here are a few books which go into some detail regarding the martial arts that were taught in Scotland:
http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=1491
http://www.amazon.com/Highland-Broa...p/dp/1891448218
http://www.amazon.com/Highland-Swor...9631849-0073222

thanx

[Louie]

How does the Irish stick work compare to the Scottish? We have almost finished arraingments with Mr. Glenn Doyle to give a seminar on Rince an Bhata Uisce Bheatha, I want to be a bit better informed as to the differences if any between this and any Scottish variations.

Thanks for all the good info so far, I still need to look at all of the links.

OOPS! I've been addressing these posts to the wrong person, apologies to Mano Mano & Angacam!!!! :bang:

Hi Angacam....

Irish stick (as I've been shown) is used a bit like a long-handled axe - normally it's held with one hand near to the centre, depending on the stick's size, weight & balance point. You can hit/block with the club/shaft at the top end or the shaft at the bottom end - using the point of the stick to stab!
It can also be swung axe-like with both hands.
I believe Glen's method uses the latter method.
In the US/Can there's also Ken Pfrenger's bata group -
http://www.geocities.com/athens/acropolis/4933/shillelagh.html
Canadian, Maxime Chouinard, recently trained with John Ramsay in Ireland and hopes to continue it in Canada;
http://quebec.shinkendo.ca/

In Scotland Singlestick was a training tool for broadsword (and later sabre) and resembles fencing - the older method didn't limit footwork. body targets and includes disarms and trips....

Louie

[angacam]

Thanks, I am reaserching all this for a local Scottish/American group that has been learning self defense from me. They want more from the Scottish/Irish roots and I simply am not able to teach that so have been looking hard to fill there needs. Thanks again for all the info.

[A Man]

Are there any remaining traditional scottish martial arts? I have a student who is asking me about this, especially stick fighting.

Take a clamor,.....and bring it down on your opponent with such devastation
as to eliminate any chance of reprisal.

[A Man]

Clamore

[RAbid Hamster]

claymore ... ;)

bring it down on your opponent with such devastation as to eliminate any chance of reprisal.
sorry dude but two handed sword is a WHOLE lot more complicated than that. Anyone who thinks that an over the head, two handed strike like that will kill their opponent 100% stone dead every time is going to look really embarrassed when the next thing he sees in St Peter taking his hand and saying ' that was bl00dy stupid!'
There are many medieval sword techniques to kill a Buffel (buffalo) who comes at you with a strength only strike. Johannes of Liechtenauer's master strokes (from the 1400's) shows how to wipe the floor with these 'devastating' strikes. And trust me, they work!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Liechtenauer

ps:A two handed sword is not as most people think, a slow, strength orientated, bludgeoning beast but is in the hands of an expert, a fast, technically demanding weapon that operates more like a polearm than a simple sword ... and it only weights 5lbs tops.

[max Chouinard]

I know this is an old thread but I just noticed it got my name in it :D . So yes I'm practicing Ramsay family style of Shillelagh Bata in Quebec city (only two other people practicing for the moment, very occasionaly).

And Louie I don't know if you knew but my article is online, haven't had time to translate it for now (French only, sorry) but I should do it during my holydays when I will, hopefully have more time on my hands :rolleyes: . For the moment I think babel fish is the only option ;). http://scrimicie.smithware.ca/graspe/MChouinard/Article3.html

P.S. I am also struggling with the admin to fix some pictures that aren't showing (most of them actually).

[Narrue]

Are there any remaining traditional scottish martial arts? I have a student who is asking me about this, especially stick fighting.


Remaining, that's the key word in that sentence........No there is not.

There are people who revive such things, much in the same manner as there are those who try to revive the Druids and their teachings. However such things can never be accurate and are full of preconceived beliefs about what was and should be included.

[A Man]

Remaining, that's the key word in that sentence........No there is not.

There are people who revive such things, much in the same manner as there are those who try to revive the Druids and their teachings. However such things can never be accurate and are full of preconceived beliefs about what was and should be included.

Can they never? Perhaps certain weapons evoke an inherited, almost tactile response. There all only so many ways a human body can move; they've all been figured out before. And when you discover what you are and are not capable of with a any given weapon, you may discover its power, and yours.....all on your own. Its all been discovered before, but can you not flow the same way as those before you?

[Louie]

Remaining, that's the key word in that sentence........No there is not.

There are people who revive such things, much in the same manner as there are those who try to revive the Druids and their teachings. However such things can never be accurate and are full of preconceived beliefs about what was and should be included.

Hi Narrue...
As mentioned in my previous posts on this subject and my recent article in 'Martial Arts Illustrated' there are surviving elements of Scottish martial arts 'remaining' and being taught in Scotland TODAY!!!!, the most obvious being traditional wrestling which is still practiced at Highland Games and the art of single-stick which was still being used as a training tool for sabre by the Scottish olympic coach in the 1990's.
Other less obvious elements can be found in Highland sword dance.

Louie

[Louie]

[QUOTE=max Chouinard]I know this is an old thread but I just noticed it got my name in it :D . So yes I'm practicing Ramsay family style of Shillelagh Bata in Quebec city (only two other people practicing for the moment, very occasionaly).

And Louie I don't know if you knew but my article is online, haven't had time to translate it for now (French only, sorry) but I should do it during my holydays when I will, hopefully have more time on my hands :rolleyes: . For the moment I think babel fish is the only option ;). http://scrimicie.smithware.ca/graspe/MChouinard/Article3.html

[QUOTE]

Hi Max...
Yes I saw the article but only had the option to babelfish it :confused: which isn't ideal, looking forward to the translation....

I did manage to read your recent description on one of the Irish lists...

My own interpretation of John's demonstration is that he was keen to stress holding the stick so that the point-end covered the forearm down to the point of my elbow (which is how the length of a dirk was measured) - now depending on the length of the stick and the length of the arm - I imagine no two people will grip it exactly at the same point - On the sticks we used the grip was just above half way - thumb up and on the back of the stick which assisted the 'spring' effect when the stick rebound between the club-head and the ferrall end) and during the lesson the lower half of the stick seemed to be employed regularily in blocking, :confused: .

Well that was just my interpretation....hopefully I can meet up with John again to spend a bit more time on the art of Irish Shillelagh. :D

Louie

[max Chouinard]

That is strange, as he said, and showed, very clearly that the front was being used for blocking and on occasion the end. As for the grip, I don't remember if he said that was the 1/3, but he did said that the ferrule had to go past the elbow about an inch. Like you say it depends on the stick you have, but I figure that the 3 and 4 foot sticks being normaly used, you woud have to have a pretty long forearm to be able to grip the exact half of the stick. Here is one of the picture I took of John: http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8963/johnjn7.jpg (love the background :D ). And another one from 1507 in Kilkenny cathedral: http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5905/gisantkg8.jpg

Ah, Wish I didn't lived so far from Ireland.

[Louie]

That is strange, as he said, and showed, very clearly that the front was being used for blocking and on occasion the end. As for the grip, I don't remember if he said that was the 1/3, but he did said that the ferrule had to go past the elbow about an inch. Like you say it depends on the stick you have, but I figure that the 3 and 4 foot sticks being normaly used, you woud have to have a pretty long forearm to be able to grip the exact half of the stick. Here is one of the picture I took of John: http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8963/johnjn7.jpg (love the background :D ). And another one from 1507 in Kilkenny cathedral: http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/5905/gisantkg8.jpg

Ah, Wish I didn't lived so far from Ireland.

Hi again Max.... Thanks for the images!!!!
I do have longish arms :D so I'd estimate my grip would be much further up than where John's got his - judging by the photo. - then again I found my hand position is effected by the weight of the stick-head and where the gnarley nobs are on the side of the stick - there's one where I place my thumb every time!!!!

The main technique I remember with the base of the stick was blocking an attack with the lower half, wrapping the it around the opponents weapon and trapping it between the stick and the forearm!

Was also interested in the dance-like steps - I have seen something similiar in Indonesian Silat. And there was also a Wing Chun guy who used raised knee stepping to protect the groin.

Louie

[max Chouinard]

Interesting, that's a technique I did not knew, or at least don't remember very well (Hopefully I took several notes as my head was so full). If you meet John again, please send me some notes, and my regards to him.