General punching speed incease?

[arekkusu]

I get sore very fast (at least i think so). 50 Full speed reps of a punch (alternating arms by sets of 10) wil be just enough to not get me sore. So i want to change my training by 1 answer to my question. The question is *drum roll* TADAAA: If i do 50 repetitions of, for example, a backfist, how much will that affect the speed of, for example, my uppercut?

If i train on 1 punch, will my general hand speed increase, or only the movement of that particular punch?

To you who knows it, it might be a very stupid question, but i've read a book about hand speed and i got confused.

If you can answer this, thanks alot! :)

[Dragon Brush]

I can see some transfer between different techniques. You use a lot of the same muscles in a lot of strikes, just in slightly different ways and at different angles, with different amounts of focus on different muscles.

My advice, if you want to amp up your hand speed, you need to stop punching air, get access to a punching bag, and go to town with it. Use the search function in the forums here, and you'll find a lot of threads like this where people have given pretty detailed replies.

Good luck!

[winchunguy]

This is an endless argument! I've discussed this subject with so many ma's and the outcome is consistently this: There are some folks who insist that training with tools , elastics etc , will increase your speed , while there are those who argue that speed is genetic, and no amount of torture will change that. I am of the latter group. You are as fast as you are , and that's it. The more repetitions you do with series of punches, the slower they will be, as your body tires. Will extending the practice of repeated punches at full speed make you faster? I doubt it, that's my opinion.

[Dragon Brush]

This is an endless argument! I've discussed this subject with so many ma's and the outcome is consistently this: There are some folks who insist that training with tools , elastics etc , will increase your speed , while there are those who argue that speed is genetic, and no amount of torture will change that. I am of the latter group. You are as fast as you are , and that's it. The more repetitions you do with series of punches, the slower they will be, as your body tires. Will extending the practice of repeated punches at full speed make you faster? I doubt it, that's my opinion.

So you're saying people can never get faster? You're just born fast? I dare say I'm a hell of a lot faster than I was when I started my MA training. You're entitled to your opinions, sir, but when they dispute FACT, then it gets a bit odd. There is the idea of genetic potential, but that refers to a maximum you can reach through years of training, not something you begin at.

OP, let's take sprinters as an example. Do you think the world's top sprinter got where he/she is because they were born that fast? Hell no! Maybe they were born with talent, but they trained hard to reach their goals, I'll wager.

[SickDevildog]

This is an endless argument! I've discussed this subject with so many ma's and the outcome is consistently this: There are some folks who insist that training with tools , elastics etc , will increase your speed , while there are those who argue that speed is genetic, and no amount of torture will change that. I am of the latter group. You are as fast as you are , and that's it. The more repetitions you do with series of punches, the slower they will be, as your body tires. Will extending the practice of repeated punches at full speed make you faster? I doubt it, that's my opinion.
Then you havent done much reading on the subject of resistance training I suppose.

Training for maximal strength will improve your punching speed by enhancing your starting strength.

Training for explosive strength such as plyometrics, olympic lifts, or just doing regular excercises inan explosive manner will lead to faster punching speed if not overdone.

Training for strength endurance will help you deal out alot more damage in a shorter amount of time (if your punches are strong) because you're training your body to resist fatigue.

Martial Artists should always try to perform the excercise (weighted and non-weighted) as fast as possible unless your working on technique. This means trying to accelerate the bar as fast as possible when using BBs or DBs.

10 second bodybuilding reps wont help a whole lot in regards to making you faster.

Then there's the whole conditioning thing you chose to neglect, there's a reason we run sprints do HIIT, circuits, minute drills and everything inbetween. It's to give our stamina/endurance/conditioning a boost.

*Steps of soap box*

[arekkusu]

My question was not about whether you can train speed or not, but this is interesting as well. :D

I can see some transfer between different techniques. You use a lot of the same muscles in a lot of strikes, just in slightly different ways and at different angles, with different amounts of focus on different muscles.

Yeah, that's what i was thinking of. If 1 punch only helps to improve that particular punch, i need to train my other punches as well. And because i get sore fast for now, i'll have to balance and plan my training.

My advice, if you want to amp up your hand speed, you need to stop punching air, get access to a punching bag, and go to town with it. Use the search function in the forums here, and you'll find a lot of threads like this where people have given pretty detailed replies.

Aww i don't understand that i forgot about the search function. :eek:
Thanks alot!

[Prophet]

SDD's post was pretty good. Basically there is 3 main things you can do to get faster.

1) Just practice punching. Just the act of doing something over and over makes you more effecient at it. It has do do with your nervous system improving its ability to recruit muscle fibres in a givin, specific movement.

2) Lift heavy weights as fast as you can. Doing this will improve your maximal strength more then anything. It will also recuruit some of the exact motor neurons required for maximal effort cotractions (speed). Powerliting and olympic lifting are both examples.

3) Pylometric movements. (explosive pushups....)

[winchunguy]

So you're saying people can never get faster? You're just born fast? I dare say I'm a hell of a lot faster than I was when I started my MA training. You're entitled to your opinions, sir, but when they dispute FACT, then it gets a bit odd. There is the idea of genetic potential, but that refers to a maximum you can reach through years of training, not something you begin at.

OP, let's take sprinters as an example. Do you think the world's top sprinter got where he/she is because they were born that fast? Hell no! Maybe they were born with talent, but they trained hard to reach their goals, I'll wager.

You go ahead and believe what you like, but instant reaction speed has got nothing to do with sprinting, which is a gradual acceleration. How fast will you punch a stationary bag, and how fast will you punch an opponent that's punching you back? The speed of your punch as a reaction will depend on how long it takes for the information to travel through your eyes , to your brain, than back to your hands. Thought process is genetic, not physical. Furthermore, I communicate with a professional trainer who is employed by an NFL team and as such, is exposed to research that has cost megabucks. I'm inclined to believe him when he says there's little one can do to increase reactive response, you either got it or you don't! What "FACTS" are you talking about? Show me one credible source that proves reaction response time can be significantly improved with exercises and you'll make a believer out of me.

[winchunguy]

Then you havent done much reading on the subject of resistance training I suppose.

Training for maximal strength will improve your punching speed by enhancing your starting strength.

Training for explosive strength such as plyometrics, olympic lifts, or just doing regular excercises inan explosive manner will lead to faster punching speed if not overdone.

Training for strength endurance will help you deal out alot more damage in a shorter amount of time (if your punches are strong) because you're training your body to resist fatigue.

Martial Artists should always try to perform the excercise (weighted and non-weighted) as fast as possible unless your working on technique. This means trying to accelerate the bar as fast as possible when using BBs or DBs.

10 second bodybuilding reps wont help a whole lot in regards to making you faster.

Then there's the whole conditioning thing you chose to neglect, there's a reason we run sprints do HIIT, circuits, minute drills and everything inbetween. It's to give our stamina/endurance/conditioning a boost.

*Steps of soap box*

Again, this is not a good comparison, and has nothing to do with reactive response ( or how quick you can throw a punch as you see an opening)
Sorry, I'm not trying to be a hard head but after years of wondering the same thing myself, and many discussions later, I've concluded that those who have explained this to me are in fact correct.

[Fenrir]

Again, this is not a good comparison, and has nothing to do with reactive response ( or how quick you can throw a punch as you see an opening)
Sorry, I'm not trying to be a hard head but after years of wondering the same thing myself, and many discussions later, I've concluded that those who have explained this to me are in fact correct.

Hes looking to improve the speed of his punches as far as I can tell, not his reactions.

You can react as fast as you want but if you cant move with enough speed to deliver a blow its wasted...

My punches are considerably faster (travelling speed, not my reactions) since I started resistence training.

People who participate in sports (MA included) that involve fast reaction times often have far faster reactions then those who dont, leading me to believe it isnt genetic.

Fighter pilots have some of the fastest reaction times of any human but as far as Im aware they do not posess superpowers to begin with.

[winchunguy]

Hes looking to improve the speed of his punches as far as I can tell, not his reactions.

You can react as fast as you want but if you cant move with enough speed to deliver a blow its wasted...

My punches are considerably faster (travelling speed, not my reactions) since I started resistence training.

People who participate in sports (MA included) that involve fast reaction times often have far faster reactions then those who dont, leading me to believe it isnt genetic.

Fighter pilots have some of the fastest reaction times of any human but as far as Im aware they do not posess superpowers to begin with.

There are MA's that train with elastic bands to increase their ' speed ' . I also do resistance training but it's not to increase the travelling speed of my arms, but rather to strengthen my arms. It is an illusion to feel like you're getting faster with resistance training. If such exercises were of any substance, professional boxers would be getting faster and faster. Your optimum speed will be reached in the first few minutes of training, then you will become slower and slower as you tire, but your optimum speed will not increase significantly by increasing the load on your muscles, this will just make you stronger, not faster. If you really want to put your theory to the test, train your punches with an radar and check your speed. You'll probably find that there are days when you are faster than others, but that generally speaking you won't be able to break your fastest time, no matter what you do, in fact I'll rent a radar myself and challenge all of our MA students to take the test, then I'll publish the results on this web site, how does that sound?

[arekkusu]

I don't know about pilots and other things, but do know with martial arts that reactions and reflexes can be trained. If it can be made faster, i don't know. But if a student repeats a move with his partner(for example, parry and punch at the same time) for 2000 times in his training, it won't be without any results regarding your reflex

You respond to that situation the way you have programmed yourself. Whenever my sparring partner punches and i see it coming, i act according to what i have trained to defend myself against that punch. (at least.. that's wat i want)

Your awareness helps to. If you can calm your mind and focus on your opponent, then you will react faster. I believe meditation is for that purpose (also for other things, but that's not the point). Developing a state of mind in wich you can get in at will.

And i once read an article (i forgot the source sorry..) that said if you trained your eyes, your reaction wil speed up. An exercise was holding a pencil in front of you, and then bringing the pencil to your nose. While looking at the pencil. Is this true??

[winchunguy]

I don't know about pilots and other things, but do know with martial arts that reactions and reflexes can be trained. If it can be made faster, i don't know. But if a student repeats a move with his partner(for example, parry and punch at the same time) for 2000 times in his training, it won't be without any results regarding your reflex

You respond to that situation the way you have programmed yourself. Whenever my sparring partner punches and i see it coming, i act according to what i have trained to defend myself against that punch. (at least.. that's wat i want)

Your awareness helps to. If you can calm your mind and focus on your opponent, then you will react faster. I believe meditation is for that purpose (also for other things, but that's not the point). Developing a state of mind in wich you can get in at will.

And i once read an article (i forgot the source sorry..) that said if you trained your eyes, your reaction wil speed up. An exercise was holding a pencil in front of you, and then bringing the pencil to your nose. While looking at the pencil. Is this true??

Aaaah! Someone who understands! Yes you can train your awareness to your partner's body language, which will in turn accelerate your reaction time. Don't know about the pencil trick, but meditation has been a great tool for me. Training your mind to stay calm and control your panic emotions will help to stay cool when your opponent is bouncing around, semi jabbing and faking, allowing you to chose the right moment to strike.

[Prophet]

There are MA's that train with elastic bands to increase their ' speed ' . I also do resistance training but it's not to increase the travelling speed of my arms, but rather to strengthen my arms. It is an illusion to feel like you're getting faster with resistance training. If such exercises were of any substance, professional boxers would be getting faster and faster. Your optimum speed will be reached in the first few minutes of training, then you will become slower and slower as you tire, but your optimum speed will not increase significantly by increasing the load on your muscles, this will just make you stronger, not faster. If you really want to put your theory to the test, train your punches with an radar and check your speed. You'll probably find that there are days when you are faster than others, but that generally speaking you won't be able to break your fastest time, no matter what you do, in fact I'll rent a radar myself and challenge all of our MA students to take the test, then I'll publish the results on this web site, how does that sound?

Haha, allmost everything you said was wrong :D

[medi]

Aaaah! Someone who understands! Yes you can train your awareness to your partner's body language, which will in turn accelerate your reaction time.




So in fact, it can be trained...


FYI Professional boxers do get faster from the time they begin their training. That's why they train.


And by the way, the speed with which a muscle can contract is a function of its overall length... which clearly can be altered by training.

[Gong_Sau_Rick]

It's not how fast the punch is, but how long it takes to get there.

[SickDevildog]

Ya man ya'll got it all wrong man, its not the size of the rod but how you wiggle your worm... :ban:

[Gong_Sau_Rick]

Ya man ya'll got it all wrong man, its not the size of the rod but how you wiggle your worm... :ban:
Yes, :ban: indeed.

[Dragon Brush]

Ok, so since this discussion has now somehow drifted over to reaction time, rather than the speed at which you can deliver a punch, am I right in saying that when you train things like your reaction time, you're training your nervous system to develop more efficient synaptic responses?

winchunguy, how can you dispute the FACT that resistance training increases speed? I'm not talking about relfexes, or whatever, but how fast your hand travels towards your target.

[SickDevildog]

Yup Mr. Winchunguy needs to read up on musclefibers me thinks.

I'm pretty sure your nervous system is beeing trained differently by doing reactive drills when compared to resistance training. I'll see what I can dig up.

[Prophet]

Here is a good page on reaction times. http://biae.clemson.edu/bpc/bp/Lab/110/reaction.htm

[Mr Punch]

SDD's post was pretty good. Basically there is 3 main things you can do to get faster.

1) Just practice punching. Just the act of doing something over and over makes you more effecient at it. It has do do with your nervous system improving its ability to recruit muscle fibres in a givin, specific movement.

2) Lift heavy weights as fast as you can. Doing this will improve your maximal strength more then anything. It will also recuruit some of the exact motor neurons required for maximal effort cotractions (speed). Powerliting and olympic lifting are both examples.

3) Pylometric movements. (explosive pushups....)Good post.

Number 2: You don't have to do them as fast as you can, but doing them slowly definitely has no advantage. Stimulation of fast-twitch muscle fibre occurs at exactly the same time and under the same stress as that of slow-twitch.

You should add

4) Sprints

Speed is a motor-neural function and therefore is not completely muscle-specific. Read Alwyn Cosgrove's interview here on MAP, or check out his website articles.

Wingchunguy's statement:
instant reaction speed has got nothing to do with sprinting, which is a gradual acceleration.is the abject opposite of correct, in terms of reaction speed and general hand-speed. That fact that it takes a couple of seconds to reach maximum speed does not mean that sprinting is only training gradual acceleration!

AlsoIt is an illusion to feel like you're getting faster with resistance training.The word 'illusion' should be replaced with the word 'fact' here. You are misunderstanding your pro-NFL trainers' advice! You seem very confused - as, in fact, you've proven by saying that you can't train reaction speed and then saying that you can; and using 'reaction speed' and 'hand-speed' interchangeably.

[tetsu ryu]

Sprinters get faster by running. Fighters get faster by punching. Who would've figured that? :confused: :D Punching fast is a good way to increase puching speed, but be sure you are punching with proper technique so you will also be punching efficiently. The punching bag is a necessity for getting you used to hitting a target. It should help add some snap to your punches but the resistance given is only at the end of the punch. Resistance bands should work a wider range of motion throughout your punch instead of just the muscles that are required to tense for impact and push through the strike like you do when hitting a punching bag. Both are useful tools, especially the punching bag because it doesn't matter how fast you swing, if you've not built up tension through striking an object it is likely you could be injured in a fight or sparring. Good luck.

[Mr Punch]

Sprinters get faster by running. Fighters get faster by punching. Read it again, and Alwyn Cosgrove, and a lot of other trainers: punchers get faster punches by sprinting. Punching fast is a good way to increase puching speed, Up to a certain level. You can't increase punching speed beyond your natural punching limit by just punching. Both are useful tools, especially the punching bag because it doesn't matter how fast you swing, if you've not built up tension through striking an object it is likely you could be injured in a fight or sparring. Good luck.I don't understand this part of your post.