blocking

[dashao]

1just wondering peoples thoughts on blocking up close but 2 punches are bothering me uppercuts and hooks do you actually think its possible to block these up close ?

2 do you have the reaction time to do it in a street situation outside the class room ?

just want to see what people think ;)

[craigwarren]

Block up close... in the street... are you mad?

Even if you do have the reaction time to block, i'd like to see most people block a blade (knife, broken bottle) or polearm (baseball bat) up close.

Why not stay out of the way, and get out if you can or pick a weak target. Much better idea than relying on blocks.

[dashao]

good argument as i thought what about close in fighting in general avoid it ?

[craigwarren]

Im not really a person to ask about fighting "street style" if i can avoid a fight that i think could turn bad then i will.

But i have been involved in a few and my main style is to avoid them and stay well out of "leg range" until i can how they move and such. Then i pick a weak spot, usually their gut or head depending on the guard and i power through it. Hasnt failed me outside yet. But then as i pointed out, i wouldnt have taken the fight if i didnt think i could win...

[dashao]

cool thanks for you thoughts on that :)

[SoKKlab]

Basic boxing skills will teach you how to block/ avoid/ redirect/ counter these punches (Uppercuts and Hooks), up close and personal.

Best place to be 'in the street' is in another street, well away from idiots.

But none the less, it is very worthwhile learning how to counter such things.

[dashao]

Best place to be 'in the street' is in another street, well away from idiots.




good stuff :D


what worries me is not so much the theory but the time and how little of it there is to react then block such a close up punch.

thanks for your opinion on that.

:)

[quartermaster]

for uppercuts, drop your arm downwards at the opponent's with plenty of force.
for hooks, step out away from attacking arm and knife hand outwards, sliding down their forearm and smashing their wrist. your near-side and is free to do whatever at the same time

hope this helps

[dashao]

cool a fair whack at countering just one thing worries me would you really go for the wrist as a target i thought something soft and squishy would be a nice target the wrist for a lock but striking feels weird to me thats all striking the wrist thats is.

[pleoid_ort]

having looked at all the replies, what if u dont have time to get out of the hook, the art of wing chun teaches u how to fight up close, close is better in fact so close that u are touching ur opponent at all times in this way u will know wher he is at all times.

[quartermaster]

it's not so much a strike to the wrist, i find a strike to just below the elbow works better and is easier to hit. when it hits you can rake down the arm but try to make a point of smashing the wrist backwards and away from you
striking the wrist often causes it to break and can stop all blood reaching the hand. this also impedes energy to the whole arm.

if you cant get to grips with this then you could try to rake down the forarm with a grabbing hand and sieze their lower wrist/hand and pull it downwards to about the level of your own beltwhile simultaneously punching to the chin. the pulling will drain their arm and move their head towards you, which makes a head punch that much more effective.

another method is to redirect their energy to somewhere safe.
i mean like if its a right hook, use your right hand to either pull or push them further to your right, tying them up and leaving a floating rib very exposed for the left hand to break

hope this clears that up

[Matt_Bernius]

Originally posted by craigwarren
Block up close... in the street... are you mad?


Acutally thats exactly where I would block a hook on the street: in close, crashing through the person (with a ton of energy). Basically your best bet with the hook is to crash through it before it develops power (preferably before the elbow passes the shoulder line). Your hands should be up, palms out, elbows at approximately 110 degrees, and arms in a "wedge pattern". The arm closest to the hook should intercept the hooking arm just below the elbow if possible (on the bicept is less desirable as the attacker can still whip the forearm around... but any port in a storm). The arm closest to the center of the body can attack the shoulder (cutting off power), the clavical line (shoocking the acctacker backwards), or the face.

This is a very simple motion, can be keyed off of a flinch, and doesn't require much tagetting skill. Plus you're moving inside the circle of the hook so even if you miss your most likely only being hi by a glancing blow (or the fist might completely miss you if it's a long hook). Plus the last thing your attacker expects is for you to be blazing through them.

Moving backwards against any circular technique only moves you into the power range of the attack. Expecially if they are bringing a weapon like a bat and stepping through on the swing. You have to be really fast to get completely out of range. And if they're continuing with you you're getting into a dangerous backup pattern and are most likely off balance from the major movement.

If you're trying to deal with the wrist you need to have better targeting skills. Plus your deaing with the technique in an area where it's got lots of potential/kenetic energy. So you need to go hard and try and get there before it starts to release the energy.

In leiu of all that you can use a boxers gaurd and with the arm on the hooking side make life your talking on the telephone (basically holding your fist agaist the side of your head behind the ear, or palming the back of your head) so that the meat of your forearm/bicept is protecting the side of your head.
- Matt

[quartermaster]

very well said,
couldn't have put it better myself

im glad someone else likes to move forwards always as opposed to wasting energy going backwards , in-out-shake-repeat
the hokey pokey is all well and good but not in a fight

[SoKKlab]

Originally posted by Matt_Bernius
In leiu of all that you can use a boxers gaurd and with the arm on the hooking side make life your talking on the telephone (basically holding your fist agaist the side of your head behind the ear, or palming the back of your head) so that the meat of your forearm/bicept is protecting the side of your head.
- Matt

A Great Muay Thai variation on the 'Talk on The Telephone' Block against the Hook is Salakhaang, same the T.O.T.T stop but drive forward with the elbow, straight into their bicep, shoulder, collarbone or face. Trust me, it hurts them alot...

[chungmoomonkey]

hooks and upper cuts u can see ffrom a mile away id be worried about the jabs but on the street i dont no if u ever been in a street fight but i have and u dont really fite u kick and run but fightijng close in class is good agienst kickers because it jams em up and they have to relie on there hands witch they are not used to

[dashao]

cool thanks for the help ppl many differnet techniques but all good . :) like the bits about going forwards instead of backwards good thinking that. if the way is clear go forward i suppose applies

[RubyMoon]

As SoKKlab pointed out, the best way to block a punch is to be somewhere else. If you can't be on a different street, however, at least get out of the way!

A good way to avoid a hook is to duck down and away from the strike in a circular motion. If done properly, it gets you quickly out of the "danger zone" and allows you to counter with a kick almost simultaneously.

Against an uppercut, a quick snap of the hips gets your face out of the way as your shoulder blocks naturally. You can then counter or, if you're fast enough, use your opponent's energy against him.

[Beehe]

head butt them or push them back or step to the oposit side the are swinging from and trip them or in a post earler snap you fingers in his/her face it will make he/she flinch enof so you can
or step to the oposit side the are swinging from and trip them
A: escape
B: strike
C: buy you some extra time
PS: head butts are not recomended unless you can recover fast
and take a hit to the head

[Matt_Bernius]

Originally posted by SoKKlab
A Great Muay Thai variation on the 'Talk on The Telephone' Block against the Hook is Salakhaang, same the T.O.T.T stop but drive forward with the elbow, straight into their bicep, shoulder, collarbone or face. Trust me, it hurts them alot...

Great point SoKKlab. I was thinking that but didn't communicate t well. That was the way I was taught TOTT. Thats for pointing out that nuance.

- Matt

[SoKKlab]

Why Thank you Matt,
Looks like we appreciate the finer things in life ;)

[Razor_EX]

really a hook is just a waste of enegy it's too wide an arch for an effective attack all you have to do is either bac step and grab the wrist and pull it behind them and then you'll have them in a good hold where you could either break their arm or make tem submit, or wat I'd probably do is watch for them to draw bc then drop down and get your right leg in close enough to kick their legsout and then you can get over them and just smash their head in( by facing opposite them and then lifting your foot all the way up grabbing it making a 180 egree turn and let your foot drop)

[SoKKlab]

Originally posted by Razor_EX
really a hook is just a waste of enegy it's too wide an arch for an effective attack all you have to do is either bac step and grab the wrist and pull it behind them and then you'll have them in a good hold where you could either break their arm or make tem submit, or wat I'd probably do is watch for them to draw bc then drop down and get your right leg in close enough to kick their legsout and then you can get over them and just smash their head in( by facing opposite them and then lifting your foot all the way up grabbing it making a 180 egree turn and let your foot drop)

Too wide an Arc?, are you joking? Draw Back, Draw back from what?

Anybody who knows how to punch, doesn't 'draw back' or telegraph their punches, you just get hit with it.

With all due respect, train your responses against someone who knows what they are doing and you will see what works and what doesn't.

Anybody who favours a Hook as an attack, usually knows how to throw it and use it, we are not talking about a Haymaker or swing punch, we are talking about a devastating short range punch that usually comes at you from outside your immediate field of vision and has substantial turning bodyweight behind it!

If you don't have a decent way of dealing with it, then Lights Out.

[Coyote]

I agree in part with SoKKlab-- a good, short hook is devastating. Drunk guy punches (as my KJ instructor likes to call 'em) aren't the ones to worry about, as you will see them miles off and have time to plan your strategy, get a cup of coffee, freshen up, and then perform your technique. The ones that would worry me are any sort of a decent boxers' jab, as the shot is so impossibly fast and there just isn't anything to grab.

My KJ instructor teaches us to check the short, straight-line punches by getting in really, REALLY close (assuming you're already close). There're a couple of reasons for this. First, you probably don't have enough time to retreat (I know I never do) and if you try, even shifting off on the X, you will still probably get hit. Second, by moving in, you check his punch before it attains maximum power (hopefully-- it's worked for me more often than not, but when it didn't I got really hurt.) For any sort of circular attack, a straight line block or attack will usually win. Place it right, and the reaction from your attack can seriously weaken your opponent's punch.

Does that make sense, or are you all just looking at me flapping my gums and going, "how did he get his lips clear down on his butt?"

[Zankuro]

It made enough sense.

Personally, I prefer to keep someone away with kicks before they can even worry about using their hands. But that's just me.

You may not have to grab it, per se. A deflection is more than enough. If a punch is so impossibly fast, then it either won't have enough focus to do anything or you're too close to the person.

[quartermaster]

always good to get another perspective, thanks for that

[Coyote]

Given a choice, I would prefer to use kicks, too, but that isn't always an option. Most fights start at what we like to call "macho distance" in our dojo-- close enough that you can reach out and touch the other guy on the shoulder without fully extending your arm.

As for a fast punch not having enough focus-- well, there's two problems with that idea. First, you usually have to worry about a lot more than just one jab (they're frequently used as softening-up punches, in any case) and, second, you might be wrong. A good boxer can put you on your butt with a jab, and I don't think anyone who's ever taken a hit from an experienced boxer would claim that those fast, vicious little jabs they use lack focus.

[quartermaster]

i would just like to add that i dont think a jab should be used as a softening up punch, rather a fast hit. make em all count

peace

[Razor_EX]

well...I'm only assuming if your fighting on streets whoever you're fighting must be an idiot...or drunk...

and I would only assume that while fighting on 'the street' a martial artist would have somewhat of an edge over some random person but against an actually good hook I'd side-step then try to kick one of their legs out to throw them off-balance...

but I'm not one who could stay calm in a fight long enough for someone to do much I'd go for the eyes then probably bite the arm and rip out the bicep if given the chance, but that's only if I had no choice to be in a fight...I mean if someone jmps you or something go all-out on them, they deserve it

[Coyote]

Buddy, that's not a safe assumption in this day and age. Your attacker may be smart, savvy, stone-cold-sober, and just one mean SOB. Ex-convicts are not automatically idiots, drunk, or unskilled-- making that assumption could get you killed.

[quartermaster]

moral being:
if you're gonna have to hurt someone then you open right up on their sorry arse and stop only when pain is no longer needed to stop them

[Razor_EX]

and that's why I should be allowed to carry a blade longer than 6"

[surgingshark]

We had finals today in self defense class. I managed to block two quick punches with just one arm. I am so proud of myself!

*cries in joy like a six year old who got a pony for Christmas*

[Matt_Bernius]

Originally posted by Razor_EX
and I would only assume that while fighting on 'the street' a martial artist would have somewhat of an edge over some random person but against an actually good hook I'd side-step then try to kick one of their legs out to throw them off-balance...Not to troll, but how would you side step a hook? To the inside of the technique or the outside? I can't see (other than by ducking/bobbing the technique) that you could move to the outside). And if you're moving to the inside, you'd really need a strong forward component (or a really wide lateral step) to move far enough away from where the punch would swing through.

- Matt

[quartermaster]

i think to the inside would be better but both sides work. also, as opposed to sidestep, i think it would be more apropriate to step in and to the side. i find the forward component to be more important for me but being like a whirlwind around the enemy is also very useful advice.

ginger, who has brown hair

[Matt_Bernius]

I buy going inside and to the side because you're moving into the area where the hook runs out of gas. But at that point you're kinda cutting off a lot of your kicks (which is what that poster was talking about using). You can switch to knees or some tight shin kicking. But your also moving into the range of the person's other hand (if he's bringing a them in a one/two pattern).

As posted earlier, I'm of the opinion that the the best place to be is stright line through the person.

- Matt

[quartermaster]

concerning kicks

i dont really use kicks at all and if i do they are really low, but when stepping in, if you more or less join at the foot or near it then you only need to lean forward on your front leg, bending the knee to dislocate the enemy's kneee joint. there is no real need for kicking in this action.

those of you who like to kick more than i do feel free to just ignore this one

[Coyote]

Ginger Fist-- I love hiza nages! Great idea!

[dashao]

hhhhhhhhhmmmmmm i must go and ponder on these new developments. yes.:D

[Kay-G]

A Great Muay Thai variation on the 'Talk on The Telephone' Block against the Hook is Salakhaang, same the T.O.T.T stop but drive forward with the elbow, straight into their bicep, shoulder, collarbone or face. Trust me, it hurts them alot...

Awesome :D

[HwaRang]

ok so whether or not the hooker (hehe) knows what he is doing or just flailing his fist in an a motion which feels most powerful for him/her, it is still a dangerous technique and situation to be in.

most important surely is knowing straight away what to do with it as opposed to having half a dozen semi-techniques.
you could turn your back into the opponent and use the hook for a shoulder throw
you could sidestep and kneekick
you could charge/rugby tackle
you could go close and wing chun his ass
you could catch and break the wrist
you could boot them in the gut before they get power into the swing
etc and so forth...

train them all of course but whichever you find works best (for you) stick with it and make sure its always lying shallow in your subconscious so that if the situation ever occurs you can throw the technique without thinking.


*ahem* "do not fear the man who throws 10,000 attacks at once. fear the man who trains the same attack 10,000 times"

[Mitch]

I buy going inside...

As posted earlier, I'm of the opinion that the the best place to be is stright line through the person.

- Matt

Agreed.

Move inside, blocking arm up (possibly trap/grab the attacking arm but certainly be close enough to limit its power), elbow strike with other arm to temple/side of face as part of the move inside. Repeatedly. Ad lib to fade.

And if anyone thinks a properly delivered hook is a slow technique, wait a fraction of a second I've got a surprise for you...

Mitch

[Vadla]

With some reflex conditioning you could pull off some of the blocks but not if the attacker starts throwing a flurry of punches at you...

sometimes a good offense is the best defense, this is where some of the kick and knees could help since they are not the most expected moves.

or just avoid the situation completely :)

[BBOY4L123]

put your hands behind your head grabbing each other like in the crash postion bend over forward, turn right or left. Now imagine a punch to the head.That will be $50 for the lesson.

[BBOY4L123]

hooks and upper cuts u can see ffrom a mile away id be worried about the jabs but on the street i dont no if u ever been in a street fight but i have and u dont really fite u kick and run but fightijng close in class is good agienst kickers because it jams em up and they have to relie on there hands witch they are not used to
put your hands behind your head grabbing each other like in the crash postion bend over forward, turn right or left. Now imagine a punch to the head.That will be $50 for the lesson.