Is this the fan?

[LowBlowJoe]

Hi all when you guys/girls talk about fan fighting are you talking about this type of fan?

And also how does one use such a thing to fight?

[YODA]

Draw your fan - yell - then kick him in the face whilst he's bent double laughing.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Ever had a paper cut? Open a fan quickly against skin and you'll get a particularly nasty one. It can also be folded closed and used for general battering. There's probably other things you can do, but that's all I know of.

[LowBlowJoe]

Ohhhhhh i see so it probally takes alot of practice to learn how to open them huh i guess

[YODA]

No- just grab it and open it. My 11 year old daughter has a big fan on her wall with a dolphin hand painted on it- she has no problems opening it.

[LowBlowJoe]

oh and they make good weapons? are they leagle? and is their a difference between the fan used to fight then with the fan us to cool your self down?

[Cudgel]

well as to whether or not htey are legal.....they are fans so I doubt they are illegal, but if the metal ribs are sharp it might be considered a dagger or knife.
I owuld check with your local, county nad state laws before carrying any weapon, but I see no reason why fan would be illegal.

[Disciple]

That is a type of fan used, yes. The fan needen't alway be equipped with sharp daggers or metalic ribs. he fan has many combative uses. E.g. you can use a fan to strike an opponent in precise areas, like pressure points, or vital body point, such as the eyes and throat. The fan's flexibility maybe taken advantage of by redirecting a light weapn, like a knife, granted that may sounds silly, but so is taking a knife on with a shirt or jacket, yet it is done, merely for a light protection of the hands which you will defend yourself with. The fan may also be used to hide yourself from an opponent by placing it over his eyes in close combat. You would have time to move into another position to attack, he will either remain blinded or distracted by being force to remove it from his eyes. Granted it is a bit of martial theory, but it is just some viable options for the underestimated fan.

[imperial_guardz]

A fan is a rare weapon...it is generally found in some Kung Fu styles...

The origins of this weapon go way back in China. Like any other fight, when a fight with weapons broke out, you were at a big disadvantage if you were weaponless...People would use anything they can get their hands on as a weapon (ie horse bench, fan, cain, umbrella, spade, rake...etc).
Some parts of China (southern areas) are quite warm, therefore many people in China once carried hand fans.
The fan, although seeming weak and fragile, can aid in the protection against other weapons such as a sword. The bamboo ribs used to make the fan is quite strong and can take some force. You can use the fan to block, deflect, distract, slice, stab, and whack while the fan is opened or closed. The paper may not cut you, but the edges of the bamboo ribs can potentially cut an open wound.

Fans are not illegal since it is not considered a weapon in common use. As Cudgel said...
but if the metal ribs are sharp it might be considered a dagger or knife.

Using the fan does take some practice in order to use it efficiently...however efficiency with this weapon can save you life...and a broken fan is only a small price to pay for your saved life!

[Disciple]

On one note, about the legality of it, there are a few states in the USA that it MAY be. You may have to check. Esp. NY and CA. Theree were about 5 or 6 states that banned many oriental weapons during the late 70 and 80s during the "Ninja craze". I almost forgot about that. However, I do not know if the fan is included in any of those laws or not.

[Cudgel]

well as for Clalifornia the weaposn I mnow for sure that are banned from actuall carrying on your person are nunchucks and brass knuckels. ANd things taht can be classified along with them like flails manriki chains, if it has chani connecting two of more things its illegal. If its used a lot by gangs its illegal. Which is kinda crazy as I can carry an asortment of deadly weapons leaglly so I dont need some of the ilegal ones.

Hell you could have metal ribbed fan with sharp pokies and it owuld be legal as longs as you open carried it in a sheath as per dirk dagger laws. So I think fns in general would be a do able SD weapon at least in the US. But check out for sure not only your state laws but also county and city laws. dont be afriad to ask the cops it their job to know the laws and to let you knw the laws. It the whole ignorance of a law is not an excuss thing. THe laws are easily found.


But as for NY I have no idea I think it worse tahn CA about weapons.

[Othergear]

I realize this thread is so old it's forgotten, but then, so are much of the old martial arts.

Anyhow, to answer your questions:

Ever hear of anything called reflexes? Balance? Center of gravity? The fan is one of many weapons and styles that is king of taking advantage of these.

The fan is a popular and truly deadly weapon that comes in various styles. Japan, Korea and China each had their own variations; Korea possibly having the most simply because it was common practice to customize devious innovations like poison dust sacks and throwing needles within the fan. For every nobleman, honor guard, etc. who favored the fan, there was a personal touch made. Why? It gained popularity in Korea at the same time swords and similar bladed weapons were banned.

When you pull out a fan, no one laughs except dead fools and idiots. Mostly, it was as normal then as air conditioning is now-completely taken for granted, even ignored. If needful, the dull, and quite light bamboo fan vanes could immediately find soft flesh in the throat, solar plexus, and other vulnerable areas of the body.
This, alongside a complete complimentary style of skin-to-skin fighting was China's way.
Korea used a specially harded species of rare wood plentiful only in that area. It thrived in the harshest of conditions on the mountains of Korea where in spring and summer, harsh rains and winds were common, and in winter, flash ice storms would bury everything in thick inches of solid ice overnight. This wood was taken and treated with high temperature steam and special herbs which gave the wood some flexibility but over all, a tempered hardness that gave the power to block sharpened steel. Such fans were in decline for many years and what is left has been nearly eradicated during the Russian and Japanese occupations, but a few can be found for prices resembling those of a well-made katana (I found one for more than $2000 USD! It was however, remarkably beautiful in painting), and the techniques are still known by a dwindling number of family martial artists and practitioners of Kook-sul-won know modern variations of old knowledge.
Japanese used strictly metal fans, or objects made to look like fans, such as flat pieces of metal with a handle.

The steel fan is a slightly more modern creation, around perhaps 1700s, and is actually potentially deadlier than a standard straight sword or katana. This fierce weapon had all the power of its wood cousins at the cost of some speed and was a little more unwieldy because of the weight and difference of balance.
The steel fan is sometimes a sword-breaker. A skilled user could catch a thrust in between the vanes of the fan, snap it shut, and with a full body weight technique, twist themselves so that the sword would give, or the wielder's grip would. Either way, the fan wielder could immediately slide down the sword and thrust the pointed vanes into the face, neck or heart of their sword wielding attacker.

Masters of this horror could also throw a closed fan in two ways: one, it would stay closed and fly like a very large bo-shuriken (imagine 13-25 needle-sharp spines flying straight at your face and you wouldn't even realize it-after all, he just threw his fan at you, right?); The second way is to throw it closed in such a way that it would spin and then suddenly explode into the colorful open form with a loud ripping noise with the effect of a primitive, hand-to-hand flashbang (Every one of these fans as the power to open with a sound literally like a small thundercrack. If you've ever snapped a towel, you hear a low cracking sound. Each space between the vans of the fan make this sound, and when done quickly enough, the fan will compress enough soundwaves to make a platoon duck) and at least 13 spines spread open falling straight into your face, shoulder, chest, leg, foot or groin. Many people who favored a style with throwing techniques often carried three.

The open fan thrust into an opponent could then be closed with two hands and shoved forward with the chest acting like a set of rakes.

The fan could be braced against the arm like a tonfa for blocks, and it had a unique advantage over other thrusting weapons in that if you thrust a stick, you have one big dull point, and a sword has only one point. A steel fan, has at least 13 very very sharp ones. Even bamboo fans would have a similarly painful effect.

In hand to hand combat, a fan was exceedingly deadly because in combination with its sound when opened and closed, the constant flashes of color from the painting were very distracting as adrenaline surges began and continued to flow. An open fan concealed the entire chest and could easily give a split second to draw out and throw a weapon, poison, etc.
If you suddenly blinded your opponent, you could actually punch through the fan, instantly making the common habit of ignoring distractions and even deadlier flaw. I've known people to actually draw a two-foot sword from behind a fan so that the point was straight at the attacker-from right behind the fan, completely unseen. All you had to do, was thrust.
Draw attention to your head, kick them in the shin, or worse, take their feet from under them.

The fan is one of the more creative weapons in a martial artist's repetoire.

If you choose to try this weapon, be aware that it is very difficult to master if you do not already have a strong fighting ability without weapons, because everything you do with the fan, amplifies that fighting ability. Without enough to amplify, the cry of victory falls weakly, to be even silent.
Be even more aware that I've tried every fan in the mainstream market-they don't last long, often have horrible balance, and are therefore poorly made.

As for legality, the wooden fans are completely legal, the metal ones, so long as they're not bladed, fall under similar categories as a lead pipe or simply another fan, though a few states do outlaw this fan.

The bladed fan however, is exceedingly rare to find a real one, and such a weapon falls under a concealed blade.

Take it easy guys,
-Savage Insight

p.s. If you guys *do* find a place to buy a fan, post it up and have some pictures whenever possible. There's always a good one in every bad bunch.

[prowla]

Wow - that's cool.
(A true fan of fans...)

[ScottUK]

Further reading on Don Cunningham's page:

http://www.e-budokai.com/hibuki/tessen.htm

[Kogusoku]

Further reading on Don Cunningham's page:

http://www.e-budokai.com/hibuki/tessen.htm

It has also been discussed on this forum before Tessenjutsu (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51810)

[saru1968]

arggh.. got there before me..


Tessen, yep got a few myself.

Not taught as often as i would like but another tool in one's arsenal.

[ScottUK]

how many tools in your arsenal? :)

[baubin2]

A good post, othergear. You put it much better than I could have.

If anyone remembers the Disney movie "Mulan", there was a scene in it towards the end where Mulan loses her sword and proceeds to pull out a fan on the bad guy, who proceeds to mock her over her choice of weapon. I don't remember what happened after that (I think she used it as some sort of distraction), but since the bad guy ended up dead, and Mulan ended up winning, the "fan as a weapon" thing obviously worked for her.

[tsukikage]

Samurai used to even have fans that weren't fans at all. They were just hunks of wood or steel that were shaped like fans and used like bludgeon - even against armored opponents...but often a weapon of last resort or a 'sacrifice' weapon.

Some fans also had sharpened ribs or were destroyed so that they could be used at piercing weapons (which worked very well esp when facing armored opponents as described above).

My experience has been that the metal fans hold up pretty well, but they are heavy when using them opened. You can get both bamboo and metal ones from Sakura. http://www.sakuramartialarts.com - Search for "Fighting Fan"

Hope this helps

[saru1968]

how many tools in your arsenal? :)

Well one of my mates calls my Van the Mobile Dojo as i generally have enough equipment to kit out an entire class.

As for numbers, i've never really counted but ten years of collecting useful 'tools' for training adds up.

:-)

[tellner]

I'm sure there were excellent fan-weapons. And people could certainly get dangerous with them. But let's be a little serious here. If they were "deadlier than swords" people all over the world would have been using fans for the last few thousand years instead of swords and spears.

[KSW_123]

I had a very hard time finding decent fans. I went through many pairs before I figured out how to make a simple modification to the cheap bamboo fans you can buy from just about any MA supplier. The first thing you need is a 1/4 inch plastic drill bit. Not a bit made from plastic, but one design to cut plastic. These types of bits have a different shape than the standard drill bit and will shatter the bamboo as you drill through the bamboo. The next thing you need is some 1/4 inch screw posts. The threading of the screw is hidden inside the post so it will not wear the bamboo down. Use red locktight to keep the screw post from unwinding itself as you open and the close the fan. Finally get some fabric glue and put a light coating on the edge of the fabric. This will keep the fabric from fraying. You know will have a nice fan that will actually last quite a long time.

[Kogusoku]

Iron fans, or Tessen in Japanese were kakushibuki (hidden weapons). They were used for several reasons;

After the end of the warring states period, dueling had become a prohibited act(even though some duels were carried out without sanction in secret.) even if one the opponent died, the winner of the duel would be forced to commit suicide or be executed.

When in court, it was prohibited to draw your shortsword when in dispute with another party. (Also some feudal domains used to have regulations stating that the binding on courtiers shortswords were not glued and were only worn for ceremony, so that when drawn, all you would have in your hand was a bundle of tsuka-ito & the tsuka gashira itself).

The person caught drawing his shortsword during a dispute in court would face immediate orders to commit suicide (Check the traditional story of Chushingura - The 47 Ronin of Ako for details of this edict.) This lead to the usage and development of kakushi-buki.

[Grimjack]

The person caught drawing his shortsword during a dispute in court would face immediate orders to commit suicide (Check the traditional story of Chushingura - The 47 Ronin of Ako for details of this edict.) This lead to the usage and development of kakushi-buki.

I always thought that this was a very specific case. Aso drew on Kira in the shogun's palace. I thought that it was the location that was the big problem and that he might have got off if it was someplace else.

I have heard of samurai drawing their long swords and cutting down common people without problem at certain times in history. So I have a bit of a problem with the idea of them never being able to draw their short sword.

Can you give us some more insight?

[Kogusoku]

I always thought that this was a very specific case. Aso drew on Kira in the shogun's palace. I thought that it was the location that was the big problem and that he might have got off if it was someplace else.

Yes, that's why I used the term court. Court isn't someplace else, it's where nobles and royals congregate for ceremonies and the like. Security levels would be rather high and the consequences for being out of line would be even more so.

I have heard of samurai drawing their long swords and cutting down common people without problem at certain times in history. So I have a bit of a problem with the idea of them never being able to draw their short sword.

Can you give us some more insight?

Yes, that's in public, out of court. Bushi drawing their weapons and killing commoners was called "Kiri sute gomen" (斬り捨て御免 - Accepting an apology by cutting down.) This was where a commoner would either affront the bushi's honour, even if it was accidental (e.g. bumping into the bushi, failure to bow to an upperclassman or making contact with the bushi's weapon - Saya ate) and the bushi would respond by using his sword. In real life it probably very rarely happened, but accounts have been historically documented.

Hope this helps.

[inthespirit]

There are many "tools" in my Arsenal. ;)

An army of fans is better than one. :D

[nickh]

Yes, that's why I used the term court. Court isn't someplace else, it's where nobles and royals congregate for ceremonies and the like. Security levels would be rather high and the consequences for being out of line would be even more so.


Is it true that Otake Risuke once commented that Asano was stupid for trying a slashing cut at Kira rather than grabbing him and stabbing him? I seem to recall reading this somewhere. Apparently he said that a better attack would have killed Kira and prevented the whole 47 Ronin incident from being required.

[Kogusoku]

Is it true that Otake Risuke once commented that Asano was stupid for trying a slashing cut at Kira rather than grabbing him and stabbing him? I seem to recall reading this somewhere. Apparently he said that a better attack would have killed Kira and prevented the whole 47 Ronin incident from being required.

Hmm, I doubt that Mr. Otake would use such direct words. I remember Meik Skoss writing in Koryu Bujutsu that if Asano dono had spent more time learning yawara rather than kyujutsu, the whole incident could have been subverted. I'll have to look it up.

[nickh]

I wish I could remember where I thought I saw that. My mind's like a damn sieve these days. :confused: