Fat Burning/Muscle Building

[BulletToothTony]

Ive been going to the gym since High School and I must say Ive put on a good amount of muscle but haven't burned as much fat as I had hoped for. When I first started working out a few years ago I didn't really have an idea as to what was good for fat burning and gaining muscle mass. I basically just did whatever.....


Over the past maybe two years Ive been trying to find a workout routine where I can burn fat and build muscle. Im already a big person but my ultimate goal is to get as chizzled and defined as possible without steroids or anything of that nature.


One of my sensai's who also has personal training experience put me on a workout regiment of Squats, Deadlifting and Bench Pressing as those exercises work the most muscle groups and build the most lean muscle mass. I like doing all three and already feel stronger. He also suggested about doing 30 minutes of aerobic workout because it burns fat but not muscle. This I have trouble with sometimes as I hate doing long boring exercises although I realize it's imperative in achieving my goals.

I also know it's important to eat healthy which isn't always easy for me. I enjoy food... I wouldn't say I eat in excess but I enjoy alot of stuff that isn't very healthy. Ive been trying to make an effort to stick to healthy foods but it seems to be harder than any workout lol... At first my sensei suggested I try a diet of strictly green vegetables and small pieces of meat and drink nothing but water. I tried this for like a week and got very sick of it..... I grew real tired of eating salads and dry meat for every meal and only drinking water. Im all about trying to eat healthy but that diet was just too extreme for me.


My main reason for this post is because Im looking for any additional advice that you guys have to offer. I'd probably like to drop maybe 10-15 pounds and gain as much lean muscle as possible.

[koolaid]

Id recommend tababta training.

It wont help you build muscle (i think) but it will help you lose weight.
I started doing them a few weeks ago and ive notced a huge difference in my total body fat.
They are very quick and painful exercises but they are worth it.

[BulletToothTony]

Id recommend tababta training.

It wont help you build muscle (i think) but it will help you lose weight.
I started doing them a few weeks ago and ive notced a huge difference in my total body fat.
They are very quick and painful exercises but they are worth it.


what exactly is tababta? Ive never heard of it

[True Axiom]

Here are a few tricks I've learned over my experience with fat loss. They rely on tricking and manipulating the metabolism, not on diets or exercises. While these may not be as effective as doing both, you can stand to lose a good 10-15lbs in a few months if you can keep it up.

1.Drink cold water, often-By drinking nearly frozen water, you cool your core body temperature. In order for your body to adjust and retain a constant core, it must heat itself up. To do this your body speeds up your metabolism and burns calories. I suggest drinking two glasses daily if you want to see significant results.

2.Run in the morning-You've probably heard this before, by running before breakfast you directly burn fat since it is the only available fuel for your body. It may make you a bit tired for the day, but you will see a good amount of fat loss. I would also eat a light breakfast after the run because after your run your body will be desperate for anything it can get its hands on.

3.Eat 5 meals a day instead of 3-Yes that's right, change up your meals to 4 or 5 a day instead of the usual 3. Of course, this is not saying that you eat more, just space out your meals. By eating constantly throughout the day you cause your body to constantly digest this food. Digestion does not run on nothing, it takes calories for your body to break down food. By eating smaller meals, you force your body to be in constant motion.

4.Change up your workout-Instead of doing your exercise at the same time every day, switch it up. If you constantly workout at night, your body will adapt and be less willing to burn fat at night. By switching between morning, afternoon, and night exercise times you will be more likely to burn more fat than if you stick to one time of the day.

5.Eat a smaller breakfast-This probably goes with the running thing, but by switching to a smaller breakfast you force your body to rely more on fat to get you through the day than on the calories and carbohydrates that you would get in breakfast.

Those are some tips that should help you lose the fat if your having trouble with diet and exercise.

TA

[Mitch]

what exactly is tababta? Ive never heard of it
Tabata (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=04-046-training)

You'll puke.

I haven't got up the gumption to try it yet, only a mini form of it and man it was tough...

Mitch

[Yost]

Here are a few tricks I've learned over my experience with fat loss. They rely on tricking and manipulating the metabolism, not on diets or exercises. While these may not be as effective as doing both, you can stand to lose a good 10-15lbs in a few months if you can keep it up.

1.Drink cold water, often-By drinking nearly frozen water, you cool your core body temperature. In order for your body to adjust and retain a constant core, it must heat itself up. To do this your body speeds up your metabolism and burns calories. I suggest drinking two glasses daily if you want to see significant results.

2.Run in the morning-You've probably heard this before, by running before breakfast you directly burn fat since it is the only available fuel for your body. It may make you a bit tired for the day, but you will see a good amount of fat loss. I would also eat a light breakfast after the run because after your run your body will be desperate for anything it can get its hands on.

3.Eat 5 meals a day instead of 3-Yes that's right, change up your meals to 4 or 5 a day instead of the usual 3. Of course, this is not saying that you eat more, just space out your meals. By eating constantly throughout the day you cause your body to constantly digest this food. Digestion does not run on nothing, it takes calories for your body to break down food. By eating smaller meals, you force your body to be in constant motion.

4.Change up your workout-Instead of doing your exercise at the same time every day, switch it up. If you constantly workout at night, your body will adapt and be less willing to burn fat at night. By switching between morning, afternoon, and night exercise times you will be more likely to burn more fat than if you stick to one time of the day.

5.Eat a smaller breakfast-This probably goes with the running thing, but by switching to a smaller breakfast you force your body to rely more on fat to get you through the day than on the calories and carbohydrates that you would get in breakfast.

Those are some tips that should help you lose the fat if your having trouble with diet and exercise.

TA
I'll let someone with more knowledge respond to this more thoroughly, but I'd be pretty skeptical about all of these suggestions except number 3. That one's good, but it's not about burning more calories through digestion, I don't think. I would think it's more about how your body stores the energy from the food you eat.

[CosmicFish]

1.Drink cold water, often-By drinking nearly frozen water, you cool your core body temperature. In order for your body to adjust and retain a constant core, it must heat itself up. To do this your body speeds up your metabolism and burns calories. I suggest drinking two glasses daily if you want to see significant results.
AFAIK, this isn't true. If I remember my physics correctly, the calorie is defined as the amount of energy required to raise 1g of water by 1°C. Therefore, if you drink 1kg of water (1 litre) at 0°c and rely on your body to heat it to body temperature (37°), you'll burn 37,000 calories.

The problem is, food values are measured in kilocalories, even though in conversation they're simply called calories. So that 37,000 calories is really only 37 "calories" (otherwise known as kcal).

This means that in order to heat a litre of freezing water up to body temperature your body only has to expend 37 kcal. This is the amount of energy stored in roughly 4g of fat. So in order to burn off 1kg of fat, you'd need to drink 250 litres (a quarter of a ton) of freezing water!

(Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong here! I've just worked out the maths on the fly. :D)

[True Axiom]

AFAIK, this isn't true. If I remember my physics correctly, the calorie is defined as the amount of energy required to raise 1g of water by 1°C. Therefore, if you drink 1kg of water (1 litre) at 0°c and rely on your body to heat it to body temperature (37°), you'll burn 37,000 calories.

The problem is, food values are measured in kilocalories, even though in conversation they're simply called calories. So that 37,000 calories is really only 37 "calories" (otherwise known as kcal).

This means that in order to heat a litre of freezing water up to body temperature your body only has to expend 37 kcal. This is the amount of energy stored in roughly 4g of fat. So in order to burn off 1kg of fat, you'd need to drink 250 litres (a quarter of a ton) of freezing water!

(Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong here! I've just worked out the maths on the fly. :D)
lol at trying to use physics to explain biochemistry.

The human body does not work on such a scientific scale. By drinking cold water you lower the central area of your body. This automatically causes a reaction in your brain and sends it a message that the body is losing heat from the most vital area. This automatically activates a response by having the body's metabolism speed up in order to create more heat for the body.

Even though you may only drink 2 or 3 glasses of ice-cold water, this will significantly lower your body's core temperature, thereby forcing it to heat itself up. It is really not a question of physics, but rather the body's natural reaction.

If I can remember correctly, drinking just one glass a day results in an average loss of 2-3 pounds per week. That may not be that big, but like I said, it's weight loss without exercise or dieting.

[spirez]

I'd always heard that sipping warm water was good for fat loss, that Gillian McKeith bird goes on about it.

Not sure about the morning cardio thing, i think there's just as much chance of burning muscle as there is fat from articles i've read. There's also that quote, 'fat burns in a carbohydrate flame'

http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/nutrition/fast-to-burn-fat-000564.php

[Mitch]

...If I can remember correctly, drinking just one glass a day results in an average loss of 2-3 pounds per week. That may not be that big, but like I said, it's weight loss without exercise or dieting.
Just to be clear.

You're saying that drinking one glass of ice cold water a day will result in losing 2-3 pounds of weight per week with no other change in diet or exercise?

Mitch

[True Axiom]

Just to be clear.

You're saying that drinking one glass of ice cold water a day will result in losing 2-3 pounds of weight per week with no other change in diet or exercise?

Mitch
Well, it varies from person to person depending on body type and other factors like that, but from what I can recall there is a measurable amount of weight loss averaging 2-3 lbs per week.

But, in all honesty, I'm not so sure that those results will hold out during the long run. The more you do an action, the more the human body will adapt to it. So if you drink constantly, eventually the results will mitigate to the point where it would be useless.

[spirez]

Well, it varies from person to person depending on body type and other factors like that, but from what I can recall there is a measurable amount of weight loss averaging 2-3 lbs per week.

But, in all honesty, I'm not so sure that those results will hold out during the long run. The more you do an action, the more the human body will adapt to it. So if you drink constantly, eventually the results will mitigate to the point where it would be useless.

Losing weight by drinking one glass per day probably just means you're dehydrated!

[True Axiom]

Losing weight by drinking one glass per day probably just means you're dehydrated!
I was talking about drinking an extra glass of ice-cold water that is outside the daily recommended value. I thought that was obvious...

[Mitch]

Well, it varies from person to person depending on body type and other factors like that, but from what I can recall there is a measurable amount of weight loss averaging 2-3 lbs per week.

But, in all honesty, I'm not so sure that those results will hold out during the long run. The more you do an action, the more the human body will adapt to it. So if you drink constantly, eventually the results will mitigate to the point where it would be useless.

Sits back, waits for AdMcG.

Mitch

[blessed_samurai]

Well, it varies from person to person depending on body type and other factors like that, but from what I can recall there is a measurable amount of weight loss averaging 2-3 lbs per week.



You're kidding right? Do you have a study to back this up?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16822824&ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

[blessed_samurai]

Well, it varies from person to person depending on body type and other factors like that, but from what I can recall there is a measurable amount of weight loss averaging 2-3 lbs per week.

But, in all honesty, I'm not so sure that those results will hold out during the long run. The more you do an action, the more the human body will adapt to it. So if you drink constantly, eventually the results will mitigate to the point where it would be useless.

If you're not in a hypo-caloric dietary intake, you're not going to lose weight simply by drinking cold water. If this theory was true, we'd just hang out in ice baths to lose weight.

And in the long run, if you're drinking constantly or consuming as much water as you need, then drinking a couple extra glasses of cold water is useless anyway.

Here's what I will say to this...for those that this *could* have a bearing on are probabally not consuming enough water. Tehy're mistaking their dehydration cues for hunger cues. They drink extra water and they're not as hungry and they're not eating as much=weight loss.

[blessed_samurai]

Here are a few tricks I've learned over my experience with fat loss. They rely on tricking and manipulating the metabolism, not on diets or exercises. While these may not be as effective as doing both, you can stand to lose a good 10-15lbs in a few months if you can keep it up.

1.Drink cold water, often-By drinking nearly frozen water, you cool your core body temperature. In order for your body to adjust and retain a constant core, it must heat itself up. To do this your body speeds up your metabolism and burns calories. I suggest drinking two glasses daily if you want to see significant results.



I know I'm burning this point to death, but it's bugging me. Escimos carry a much larger percentage of bodyfat than Africans. Obviously the body constantly having to heat the body up is not working on lowering bodyfat levels.

[blessed_samurai]

2.Run in the morning-You've probably heard this before, by running before breakfast you directly burn fat since it is the only available fuel for your body. It may make you a bit tired for the day, but you will see a good amount of fat loss. I would also eat a light breakfast after the run because after your run your body will be desperate for anything it can get its hands on.

4.Change up your workout-Instead of doing your exercise at the same time every day, switch it up. If you constantly workout at night, your body will adapt and be less willing to burn fat at night. By switching between morning, afternoon, and night exercise times you will be more likely to burn more fat than if you stick to one time of the day.

5.Eat a smaller breakfast-This probably goes with the running thing, but by switching to a smaller breakfast you force your body to rely more on fat to get you through the day than on the calories and carbohydrates that you would get in breakfast.



2. I don't get this whole fasted state cardio thing. It's been demonstrated that HIIT will have a much more tremendous impact than the LISS method (look up EPOC). Even swimming will utilize four times the amount of energy compared to running given the same intensity level. We don't just wake up and our glucose stores are completely empty. And...we don't automatically just jump into the fat burning mode (or zone) upon jogging or running...it takes time to get there.
From Lyle-
"You may be misreading this somewhat wrong. It's probably more accurate to say that you don't see much of an increase in fat oxidation after low intensity stuff. So all you burn is what you burned during that bout.

So compare:
mornig fasted cardio at say 5 cal/min. You're burning mostly fat. And that's all you burn. Say you do an hour, that's 300 calories of fat.

compare that to fed cardio where you can maintain a higher intensity, say 10 cal/lb. you may burn the same 5 cal/min fat but you also burned 2X as many calories, depleted glycogen (which impacts on fat oxidation post-workout as well as giving a sink for dietary carbs to go to) and will get a slightly higher (zbut mostly irrelevant) impact on calorie burn afterwards.

ultimately ,600 calories burned trumps 300 calories burned regardless of macro mix.


Quote:
This seems to be one of the theorys behind doing fasted cardio whilst bulking to limit fat gains.



I could possibly see a difference between cardio to stave off fat gains while bulking versus cardio done to specifically generate fat loss here.

However, maybe someone can answer me this: bodybuilders are psychotic about not going more than 2-3 hours without food to avoid going catabolic. Yet they are going to get up in the morning and do an hour of cardio without eating?


Quote:
Question #2. If you do HIIT as morning cardio whilst fasted. As this demands a much higher ratio of glycogen>fat & you hardly have any, does the body simply start breaking down muscle to replace the glycogen/increase the % of fat being burned or a combination of both?

Thanks


youy have plenty of muscle glycogen after an overnight fast, only live glycogen will be depleted.

hat said, intervals with low blood glucose tend to suck"

4. Working out=anaerobic activity=non-fat utilizing activity. Now, working out to increase LBM to increase BMR is one thing. But then we get into other considerations.

5. What is a smaller breakfast? Some folks don't even eat breakfast, and that's a problem in itself. You mention not relying on carbs and calories. Well, we have to rely on calories or we die. But I will go with restricting carbs to start losing weight.

I did write an article on here about weight loss. It had a couple good points in it.

Okay, I'm tired.

[CosmicFish]

Just to add to what Blessed has said . . .

2-3lbs of weight loss a week is actually a fairly large amount, even for a diet, let alone mere water consumption. Shugarts Velocity Diet (http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=546491) sheds barely more than that and it's an extreme diet.

Plus, anecdotally, I'm swigging chilled water all day long at work. By your reasoning I should be ripped to the bone by now. (I'm not :D)

[wrydolphin]

Drinking cold water does not actually decrease your core temperature. Test it. Take your axellary temperature, drink a glass of cold water and take your temperature again. They will be the same because your body does not loose that much heat in bringing water to body temperature. I suspect that anyone who thinks this is true took an oral temp and yes, your mouth does get cooler. But your core does not.

[Jamo2]

How come this happens here all the time.
Somebody comes along who "Knows" their theories are right.....gets shunted and shafted left right and centre from people who are actually in the know and doesnt post again because we are being "unfair" and "closed minded".

[True Axiom]

How come this happens here all the time.
Somebody comes along who "Knows" their theories are right.....gets shunted and shafted left right and centre from people who are actually in the know and doesnt post again because we are being "unfair" and "closed minded".
A guy's gotta sleep. =/

Those tips I posted came from articles I've read or from what some teachers have told me over the years. I picked them up because there seemed to be a logic behind them that I could understand. I can see know that I shouldn't have believed what I've read or heard so willingly and without research. Live and learn.

Oh, and good luck with your program Tony.

[CosmicFish]

^ Good attaitude dude. :) You're right. Live and learn.

[tetsu ryu]

what exactly is tababta? Ive never heard of it

Tabata= 20 seconds of "max effort" work and then 10 seconds of rest. Repeat as necessary. Most go for 8 rounds. Do whatever feels comfortable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxrFducMgYQ (do these as your first tabata session. You will feel the wrath of the burpee tabata!)

http://www.gymboss.com/ (good tabata interval timer)

[wrydolphin]

A guy's gotta sleep. =/

Those tips I posted came from articles I've read or from what some teachers have told me over the years. I picked them up because there seemed to be a logic behind them that I could understand. I can see know that I shouldn't have believed what I've read or heard so willingly and without research. Live and learn.

Oh, and good luck with your program Tony.
We've all been suckered at some point. The good thing is, you learn to do some research and weed out the crap from the pearls. Of course, it helps if you have MAP. ;)

[Jamo2]

A guy's gotta sleep. =/

Those tips I posted came from articles I've read or from what some teachers have told me over the years. I picked them up because there seemed to be a logic behind them that I could understand. I can see know that I shouldn't have believed what I've read or heard so willingly and without research. Live and learn.

Oh, and good luck with your program Tony.


Ok i take it back...Well done...your one of the rare open minded ones who does actually know how to listen and hence learn some new stuff.
Good job

[Mr Punch]

Tabata push-ups

I usually vary them:

normal
wide
narrow
elevated
scapula
one leg raised
scapula
kneeling...

believe me, you need the kneeling ones by the end! :eek:
The scapula ones are good for giving an active rest on the muscles for the nromal ones, but if you have more than one set of scapula ones I guess it would start to go against the idea.

I've also done tabatas with

lunges (again varied: normal, walking, alternate leg)
weighted lunges (with ANY weights and tabatas start waaay lower than you would normally be caught admitting you train with! :D For the first time, e.g. 10-20 kgs is a sensible limit. Remember, as you're working out fast it can be tempting to ignore a little deviation from your good form - THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! STOP, change weights down, and try again)
crunches (varied - normal, sideways, bicycle)
sprawl drills (a killer)
double-leg takedown drills (the HoRrOR...)
squats (very very boring)
weighted squats (meh)
deadlifts (very difficult to pay attention to your form I found)
varied weights exercises (major pain in the arse: 1) difficult to time, as getting into the ready position in some cases includes lifting which then cuts into your rest time; 2) it's difficult to gauge which weights to use for which exercises - remember lower is better esp if just starting out, so maybe 10 kg is a good starting weight; 3) it's difficult to choose simple enough exercises which aren't working the same muscles: you DO NOT want anything more complicated than some kind of straight lift - I tried it with a set of windmills thrown in once and suffered)
punching/kicking/punching + kicking drills on heavy bag

Anyway, all in all, tabatas rock.

Word of warning which you'll probably find everywhere tabatas come up, but Tabata recommended not doing this protocol more than two/three times a week unless you're serious athlete in competition training. You don't notice it until it's too late, but you're basically pushing yourself through failure a few times in one short session which puts immense strain on your nervous system and really plays havoc with your immune system and recovery times.

Take care

[yannick35]

Being an on and off low carber i pertty much know that you dont just deplete glycogen store in one night.

When you are depleted you have some issues working out and doing cardio is even worst, that is why when i low carb i try to stay away from ketosis, and full muscle glycogen depletation.

It is possible to deplete glycogen in 48 hours some have done it in 36 but i usually get there in 48 hours, low carb diet and hard total body workouts.

UD2.0 by Lyle Mcdonald is amazing for this.

If you want to lose weight its calories in vs calories out, if you eat more then you need of anything even worst with age you store bodyfat.

I was doing tones of cardio high intensity, boxing, weight lifting and my bodyweight never drop i was always stuck between 224 and 217, that is until i got my diet in gear, eating a lot of veggies, cutting out sugar, high glycemic carbs from then on the weight started to fall of and today i am at 201 took about 2 months to get where i am at now.