Kateda, an Indonesian MA?

[Narrue]

Was speaking to a martial artist and asked him what martial art he studied, Kateda he replied. Made me smile because I had not heard that name for a long time. It was the first martial art I ever studied at about nine years old. I don’t remember much about it except that there was a lot of breathing exercises. I always thought it was from Korea or china but I was very surprised to hear that it originates from Indonesia. The guy told me that the art is 5000 years old originating in the Mount Bromo Region of East java. So there you go, the first martial art I ever did was Indonesian and I didn’t even know it :D

I still have reservations about this though, I remember it looking a bit like TKD (also studied TKD) but having strange breathing exercises (kixa). Anyone here ever studied Kateda or know more about its origin……..I still cant believe it could be Indonesian.

[CosmicFish]

I got suckered into it years ago when I was a naieve 14 year old. It's a complete joke. Memory's a little rusty now, but I can recall some things.

They have twenty one-step techniques, which they claim will set you up for defending against any situation you'll ever encounter. The techniques themsevles are slow, clumsy, awkward, and barely work against a compliant partner, let alone against someone who might want to hurt you.

Speaking of partner work, there was very little of that done. Most of the exercises were practised against thin air.

The whole thing revolves around something they call, or at least used to call "central power". It involves doing breathing exercises and making silly noises whilst performing specific isometric muscle contractions. This is supposed to build up your mystical central power. Central power was sometimes explained as being a way of building up your "inner muscles" whatever they are supposed to be.

Using this central power you are supposed to be able to strengthen your body to the point that you are "immune" to punches. Whereas they did do some impressive looking brick breaking on their stomachs, it took you ages to get yourself ready to take the punches. When asked how you'd defend against a knife attack, we were referred back to the clumsy 20 steps. :rolleyes:

As if all that wasn't enough, after 5 months of half-arsed training with them as a 14 year old boy, to my everlasting shame they gave me a black belt and had me teaching a class!!!! It still boggles my mind that there were adults in my class stupid enough to fall for the whole thing.

Martial arts aside, they were possessive and dictatorial towards their students. They even had a few residential houses around where some of the mid / higher grades lived in together in a culty kind of way. Their methods of advertising were quite highly evangelical. Leaflets being handed out on the streets and members being encouraged to make repeated house visits to anyone who showed the slightest interest, essentially bullying them into joining.

IMO, you're right to have reservations. If you took up knitting you'd be in a better position to defend yourself. At least then you could poke your opponent in the eye. :D

[Ciar2001]

Oooh that was the name of that martial art i did briefly as a kid in between doing steelwire when i was 15 :)

I completely forgot, i went with some mates to a church hall down in Ilford, it all fell apart not long after that due to fraud and something else.

[Narrue]

Just seen a video, brings back the memory’s :D This martial art was all about being able to take punches. The guys in the class would be punched in the stomach and the females would be slapped hard on the back. I also remember having to rise up onto my tiptoes and then hurl myself backwards onto the hard wood flooring. There was a strange breathing technique, inhale twice by nose and exhale twice by mouth so that you sound like a steam train.
True there was no partner drills, just forms and copying the instructors movements.

I can’t see how this art could be Indonesian, as I said from my memory’s the blocks etc were like karate or TKD.

5000 years old……..I don’t think so!

[Ciar2001]

do you remember you had to sit on the floor on your feet, and jump up from that position it was a killer on the feet, it was meant to be done for some reason or another.

[CosmicFish]

Whether or not it's Indonesian I don't know (it probably isn't) but I believe Lionel himself was Indonesian. Maybe that's where it comes from? The 5,000 years old thing is probably a crock too. I'd be surprised if it was more than 5,000 days old!

I heard rumours of fraud and inappropriate sexual behaviour. Apparently the BBC did a program on it and it didn't get a favourable review. Shortly after that I think Lionel went back to Indonesia.

The tiptoes was funny though. I can remember at the time feeling like we were all a bunch of kangaroos! :D

Is it still around in London today then?

[Narrue]

do you remember you had to sit on the floor on your feet, and jump up from that position it was a killer on the feet, it was meant to be done for some reason or another.

LOL…..yep I remember doing those!


Is it still around in London today then?

I don’t know if they teach Kateda anymore in London, the guy I was speaking to was talking about starting classes in one of the parks in London but just teaching the central power breathing exercise set.

[Ciar2001]

my mates did it until they shut the club due to fraud and the articles in the news, but i personally never did trust the teachers or i had a feeling in the back of my head that this was all a pile of crap :)

but i will always remember the feet and stuff like that, if you stick Kateda in google you can see where they are teaching it, still in London just not in my home town anymore.

[sly fox]

its still around... i remember visiting a silat school near london that looked surprisingly like kateda as well

[0rigin]

do you remember you had to sit on the floor on your feet, and jump up from that position it was a killer on the feet, it was meant to be done for some reason or another.

if you dont want to feel pain...dont learn martial arts do dancing instead..

[0rigin]

I got suckered into it years ago when I was a naieve 14 year old. It's a complete joke. Memory's a little rusty now, but I can recall some things.

They have twenty one-step techniques, which they claim will set you up for defending against any situation you'll ever encounter. The techniques themsevles are slow, clumsy, awkward, and barely work against a compliant partner, let alone against someone who might want to hurt you.

Speaking of partner work, there was very little of that done. Most of the exercises were practised against thin air.

The whole thing revolves around something they call, or at least used to call "central power". It involves doing breathing exercises and making silly noises whilst performing specific isometric muscle contractions. This is supposed to build up your mystical central power. Central power was sometimes explained as being a way of building up your "inner muscles" whatever they are supposed to be.

Using this central power you are supposed to be able to strengthen your body to the point that you are "immune" to punches. Whereas they did do some impressive looking brick breaking on their stomachs, it took you ages to get yourself ready to take the punches. When asked how you'd defend against a knife attack, we were referred back to the clumsy 20 steps. :rolleyes:

As if all that wasn't enough, after 5 months of half-arsed training with them as a 14 year old boy, to my everlasting shame they gave me a black belt and had me teaching a class!!!! It still boggles my mind that there were adults in my class stupid enough to fall for the whole thing.

Martial arts aside, they were possessive and dictatorial towards their students. They even had a few residential houses around where some of the mid / higher grades lived in together in a culty kind of way. Their methods of advertising were quite highly evangelical. Leaflets being handed out on the streets and members being encouraged to make repeated house visits to anyone who showed the slightest interest, essentially bullying them into joining.

IMO, you're right to have reservations. If you took up knitting you'd be in a better position to defend yourself. At least then you could poke your opponent in the eye. :D

i dont know what happen to you but in kateda indonesia, in one month of training you will be able to take bricks on to stomachs, and we need at least 5 months to have higher belt stage (yellow) and at least another 4 months to green belt, so the black belt will need at least 2 years and it only given when you have and capable of teaching at least 50 student and there is 30 steps.
and there was age limitations, 12 years old.
so, i believe you have been fraud.

[0rigin]

Whether or not it's Indonesian I don't know (it probably isn't) but I believe Lionel himself was Indonesian. Maybe that's where it comes from? The 5,000 years old thing is probably a crock too. I'd be surprised if it was more than 5,000 days old!

I heard rumours of fraud and inappropriate sexual behaviour. Apparently the BBC did a program on it and it didn't get a favourable review. Shortly after that I think Lionel went back to Indonesia.

The tiptoes was funny though. I can remember at the time feeling like we were all a bunch of kangaroos! :D

Is it still around in London today then?

it has been proven made by another martial arts school, but for the sake of other student and school kateda change its name into kixa. and do you know that SINDO was kateda too, and sindo recently open their class at british army HQ, (see www.sindo.org). about the 5000 years old history...even in indonesia we still doubt it. peace.

[tellner]

i dont know what happen to you but in kateda indonesia, in one month of training you will be able to take bricks on to stomachs,
Brick breaking on the stomach is pure carnival trickery straight out of The Flying Circus of Physics (http://www.flyingcircusofphysics.com/). It's right up there with fire walking and breaking kiln-dried pine boards with spacers in between them. If anyone uses it as a demonstration of his or her "inner power" or martial arts skills just smile pleasantly and walk away.

[0rigin]

well i dont want to be a keyboard fighter as you are, but if u dare why didnt u find a true kateda school and try it yourself.

[CosmicFish]

well i dont want to be a keyboard fighter as you are, but if u dare why didnt u find a true kateda school and try it yourself.
How would we recognise a "true kateda school" if we were to come across it?

[jeff5]

I watched the video on the Sindo site. All I can say about the self defense techniques is....they're a good way to die.

[0rigin]

ask them for a test, tell that u want to try to hit/punch them on their solar plexus if they dont feel anything u will join them in training, i'm sure it will be granted if they were a true kateda student.

[0rigin]

I watched the video on the Sindo site. All I can say about the self defense techniques is....they're a good way to die.

The techniques are taken from karate, so you are saying karate is good way to die too? the techniques in the kateda are taken from karate and other light movements are taken from many martial arts as a supplement in the class. The original kateda teaching only 10 steps. A kateda instructor have a privillage to teach other movement/styles/techniques as long the student have mastered the basic.

[jeff5]

The techniques are taken from karate, so you are saying karate is good way to die too?

Pretty much, yes. I'd like to see a test where they take a full on punch to the jaw by a really good striker/boxer (not another Kateda guy), and not get knocked out.

[CosmicFish]

ask them for a test, tell that u want to try to hit/punch them on their solar plexus if they dont feel anything u will join them in training, i'm sure it will be granted if they were a true kateda student.
I've seen it done and it does look impressive. However, I don't know enough to be certain that it's not just a clever trick, like the brick breaking.

More importantly, however, since Kateda is touted as a method of self defence, being able to take a punch to the solar plexus isn't the be all and end all of guaging it's effectiveness. An attacker is going to try to punch you where they want to, not where you want them to. As Jeff5 says, what happens if they get a solid punch to the jaw? And please don't say "Step 1" - it's incredibly slow and clumsy.

[Jebat]

well i dont want to be a keyboard fighter as you are, but if u dare why didnt u find a true kateda school and try it yourself.

Because when they are attacked by 20 gang kids with knifes and sticks in the streets of London, Amsterdam or Paris, it won't help them in any way.
Why don't you go to Europe or the USA and get into a real life fight?
Let's see if your brick breaking, fire walking and oil rubbing
is going to help you. It won't.......