Kukkiwon Scandal?

[Thomas]

Originally posted by hapkiyoosool
My family in Korea called me to let me know that the KukkiWon in Korea has fallen victim to con-artists. The leaders of KukkiWon are in Jail for issueing FAKE Dan certificates to people outside of Korea, taking the money and NOT registering people. Embezzlement is what they call it. the investigation was completed not long ago and a judgment was passed.

You may want to check and see if your Dan rank in ITF, WTF, or anyone else conected with KukkiWon is legitimate.

I know a few people who have found out they are not Dan holders like they thought, thanks to the sneaky leaders at KukkiWon.

Sorry to all of you who have been scammed. I feel for you and you are in our prayers. I think the Korean Government is trying to recitfy the problem as quickly as possible.

I am not affiliated with KukkiWon, Have nothing to do with them since I am Hapkido only. But I will help if I can. Doubtful, but I can try. I have no pull in the TKD world.

This was posted in the Hapkido section. I wonder if anyone else has heard anything along these lines. I did a quick news search among some World, US, and Korean news sites but turned up nothing.

[Bulldog]

I did see a post on the Korea TKD Association message board from a martial artist in Illinois who believed that someone was issuing "fake" Kukkiwon certificates. Jeremy Talbott, I think was his name...He was urging the KTA to look into it and contact him immediately.

Who knows?

[neryo_tkd]

i did a search and i found 2 articles about people receiving cash for giving someone high dan ranks (9th, 10th dan) and fake certificates and for allowing some of them to start a new style in martial arts. but both of these articles refer back to the year 2000. so i guess this is not what the above mentioned post is all about.

i'll let u all know if i find something else.

[KickChick]

Our dan certificates are not issued by the Kukkiwon, but if it is of any importance .....

For verification of dan certificates contact:
Kukkiwon, International Division, 635 Yuksam Dong, Kangnam ku, Seoul, Korea 135-081, Tel: 011-822-563-3339, Fax: 011-822-552-3025....

[Bulldog]

I've done some checking in on this and it seems that there (sigh) have consistently been people charging/luring people with "fake" certificates and charging out the wazoo for them...it's called capitalism! kidding...I kid...(or am I)

Kickchick is right...if you aren't sure...always to the the source...Kukkiwon keeps records of all recipients...as do most legitimate and responsible organizations.

BD

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Bulldog

Kickchick is right...if you aren't sure...always to the the source...Kukkiwon keeps records of all recipients...as do most legitimate and responsible organizations.

BD

I think the concern was that some Kukkiwon officials were issuing dan certifactes from the Kukkiwon but not registering them... just printing the certificate and pocketing themoney.

I've checked out a few sources on the Internet, but haven't come up with anything. I'll ask my wife who is currently in Korea to check out the news for me.

[Bulldog]

Right...I understood the original claim...but, I just haven't found anything...I realize this would not be "We interrupt FRIENDS for this shocking martial arts scandal"...

But, if it was Kukkiwon officials...I would think, it wouldn't take long for that to get out...IMO..

But, who knows...we shall wait and see...and if we don't see...we'll wait 5 more minutes before the next "scandal"...ha ha

[Yang, Dae-han]

Originally posted by Thomas

I've checked out a few sources on the Internet, but haven't come up with anything. I'll ask my wife who is currently in Korea to check out the news for me.

Just so you know, if your wife only knows English, then it won't help much with her being in Korea. Same news here as there.

In addition, even knowing Korean won't promise any results.

Cheers,

Dae-han

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Yand, Dae-han
Just so you know, if your wife only knows English, then it won't help much with her being in Korea. Same news here as there.

In addition, even knowing Korean won't promise any results.

Cheers,

Dae-han

Actually my wife speaks Korean and English, so I usually trust her translations much better than mine. I found the news sources in Korea to be a bit different than the ones in the US... the cultural filters tend to be a bit different. Also, Korean TV does tend to have a lot more domestic Korean news available than TV staions in the US.

I talked to her last night but she hadn't seen anything on the TV or heard anything. She'll ask around her peers for me, but I don't think there really has been much released yet if there has been a scandal.

By the way, what University do you teach at? I lived and worked in Chungnam for a while and travelled the area quite a bit. What do you teach? (I only ask because I am impressed that you are a professor at a relatively young age.) Also, you mentioned you have been training there for 7 years, did you do your dan testing in Taecheon (Boryeong)... maybe I saw you there! Nice to "meet" you!

[Thomas]

I apologize for asking personal information in the previous post... we handled it by PM, as it should've been done. I was excited about Asan (Onyang)... famous for its hot springs, its proximity to Cheonan (nice city) and for a really nice (but tiny) raw fish place, I've been known to enjo myself at.

On the topic: I talked the wife this morning and she still had heard nothing... so will keep ears open!

[Kwajman]

I spoke with many instructors about this at a recent regional tournament. Many 5-9th Dan masters and grandmasters. They felt it was really a non-issue. The Kukkiwon is losing much of its prestige as is the ITF. They feel that the number of black belts issued has really watered down the significance of what it means to be a black belt.
As for the ITF disaster, what a 3 ring circus! Three different people claiming to be the ITF president in two different countries. You can get Dan certificates issues by a number of people now claiming to be the "True" ITF.
The higher ranking Korean Grandmasters I was able to speak to almost to a person said that it was the network of people you knew that mattered, your instructor and your students. They know what you are capable of and what your not. If someone claims to be such and such rank, does it matter where your certificate is issued from? I would think it wouldn't take long to learn if someone is a fake or not, simply by observation or talking to those who supposedly trained him/her. I know I'll probably get blasted for this post, if it gets posted at all, but this information is from discussing the issue at length over the weekend.

[neryo_tkd]

Originally posted by JAY_TKD
found this in the "Korean Herald", dated 9th of December.

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/archives/result_contents.asp?id=200312090062&query=taekwondo


i found this in another thread and thought i might add it here

[Ara]

the ITF may have many political issues, but it is true tae kwon do and always will be. What the General created all those years back. That is Tae Kwon Do. As long as the teachings dont change, ill always be loyal to the ITF to do my part to carry on the teaching of the traditional tae kwon do ideals/movements and mentality.

[craigwarren]

This report isnt very well writter, it mentions two major TKD governing bodies, but doesnt mention them both by name. The KTA is mentioned (i take it this is WTF) but there is no mention of the second???

[Kwajman]

I'm concerned about the ITF's problems with 3 people claiming to be the "legitimate" president of the organization. It will be interesting to follow the organizations progress..

[Thomas]

Originally posted by Ara
the ITF may have many political issues, but it is true tae kwon do and always will be. What the General created all those years back. That is Tae Kwon Do. As long as the teachings dont change, ill always be loyal to the ITF to do my part to carry on the teaching of the traditional tae kwon do ideals/movements and mentality.

Nice to see loyalty...
As a piece of advice, be careful on a public forum when implying that only one way of an art is the "true" one. Here's a couple of threads to check out to see what some other, long-training, TKD artists feel about this:

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2677

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4185

Or... you can do a search on this site. There will always be tension between the ITF and WTF, ranging from support of different countries (ITF/North Korea and WTF/South Korea) to other political issues that have no bearing on the training. When the politics get in the way of training is when there is a problem. I have trained in both styles and know that they are pretty similar, with exceptions on sparring rules and many differences between INDIVIDUAL SCHOOLS.

By the way, this post is dealing with scandals in the Kukkiwon, which is the governing body for the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF - International and outside of Korea) and also for the Korea Taekwondo Federation (domestic group). That's the two groups mentioned: the WTF (International) and KTF (Domestic).

[Ara]

Well to be fair, ive said nothing that people dont already know. Tae Kwon Do was first created by General ChoiIXdegree, formed from an amalgamation of karate and some other ancient martial arts (ill remember the names at some point) It also uses alot of modern physics in its ideas, all of which General Choi IX degree ( theory of pwer etc) It was the first form of TKD in existence, hence and therefore i dont believe im wrong in saying it is true TKD, and WTF is a political spin off from it, the governing body for the olympic side of the sport. I think im going to research some more into the differences of the 2.

however, ill say that these are my opinions and mine only. I dont wish to enforce them on others, just what i believe and what im loyal to. call it a disclaiimer :P Im NOT saying ITF is better or superior to WTF. Both have good and bad points. Im merely stating that it all started from one man, and he was associated with the ITF.

[Artikon]

Glad you said that's your opinion :)

[Ara]

well ive been lectured by an 8th degree master on it, thats why im fiercly defending, if thats what u want to call it ;) i dont mean to start an arguement, but like i said, im very loyal, perhaps too loyal and should keep my mouth shut sometimes :p

[Yang, Dae-han]

Originally posted by Ara
well ive been lectured by an 8th degree master on it, thats why im fiercly defending, if thats what u want to call it ;) i dont mean to start an arguement, but like i said, im very loyal, perhaps too loyal and should keep my mouth shut sometimes :p

Argument? No. Lame topic? Yes. This is a topic that no side shall convert to, even if explanations are spot on, (or even 'factual and logical')... just as in any belief.

True? Hmmm, reminds me of the scholars who claim to speak and profess the true form of English.

Do you really believe the 'first' form of TKD was perfect? If not, are the changes that have/are/will be made cease the art/sport to be true and original?

Keep your mouth shut? No worries, however, I hardly do and prove a learned (accent on the second syllable folks) man right....

"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
-- Mark Twain

Cheers.

[JohnG]

Originally posted by Ara

Im NOT saying ITF is better or superior to WTF. Both have good and bad points. Im merely stating that it all started from one man, and he was associated with the ITF.

Ara, I believe TKD was formed when a number of different Kwans (schools) got together and unified under one name, Taekwondo. Gen. Choi is said to have come up with the name, but no one man can claim to be the origin of TKD.

As I understand it, Gen. Choi was unhappy with the emphasis on sport in TKD and aftermoving to North Korea began the ITF using his vision for the way TKD should go.

If my information is incorrect, I apologise. But I do know TKD is the result of thousands of years of evolution, and cannot be traced back to one man.

[Ara]

:)