Legality of useage

[khafra]

I saw this question on packing.org. It was referring to someone legally carrying a concealed weapon, but it would seem to me that it applies to martial artists as well. Anyone know how the laws about citizen's arrest go, in the U.K. and U.S.?

It is widely known that if a citizen personally witnesses a crime being committed, he or she has the right to detain the offender until police personnel arrive and take control of the situation. It also seems obvious that some use of force would be required to detain an offender who surely does not wish to be prosecuted for his or her crime. What I think is NOT well known is the level of force that is legal. This applies both to those carrying concealed weapons as well as those who are unarmed. What can a citizen legally do in an effort to detain an offender during a citizen's arrest? Is this level of force related to the crime? It seems reasonable that more force could be justified in detaining an offender who was caught in the act of murder or rape than could be justified in detaining a pick-pocket. Another thought: It is quite likely that after a more serious crime, one's effort to detain a violent criminal may cause the criminal to turn violently against the detainer, in which case it would seem one could fall back on self defense legislation.

[YODA]

Check out the "Legal Issues" menu at the top right of my website - this info was put together by my training partner - a serving Police Officer in Manchester....

www.jkdc.co.uk

[Pacificshore]

Here's how this would work on the West Coast. A misdemeanor crime not committed in the presence of a Peace Officer requires a citizen's signature for an arrest to take place. The citizen's arrest must come from the victim of said crime and not from an independent witness. In other words, if the victim of a misdemeanor crime declines prosecution, then essentially there's no crime. In felony type cases there is no need for a citizen's signature, and an arrest can take place whether your victim is cooperative or not.

As far as carrying a concealed weapon here on the West Coast, it's basically illegal, unless your a Peace Officer or have a CCW which is very hard to obtain in this state.

In regards to the use of force issue in detaining the criminal, that can be subjective in the sense that it depends on what type of crime you are dealing with and what the criminal is doing. For example is he/she cooperative, running, or fighting with you. Also, you must think of the severity of the crime and your own welfare. If your goal was to have a criminal arrested, and say he/she had a weapon, would it be wise to try and take them on one on one, or follow them until the police arrive. Sometimes the best thing you can do is be the best witness possible for the police and direct them to the location of the criminal.

Lastly, self defense here in the West Coast is essentially defined as using the necessary/reasonable amount of force to protect yourself from danger, and once the danger/threat is over, then you must stop. Otherwise you become the criminal:eek: :confused: :eek:

[khafra]

Hm, that's interesting. So, if I put my bicycle in the same parking lot where it's gotten things stolen off it before, but leave the whole bicycle unlocked so the value stolen will push it into the felony category, there'd be a possibility I could use force to restrain whoever's been ripping me off? :woo:
I wish I knew where to check into that, the police officer I asked told me the most I could do was ask the perpetrator to stop, and maybe take his picture. I wonder if I'd legally have to give him the camera if he tried to take it away...

[Pacificshore]

Isn't it a funny thing that $$$ amounts can change what seemingly is a petty crime into a felonious crime. Here's on for you, in Ca. if you carry a concealed gun on your person and get caught it's a misdemeanor, and if you carry a pair of nunchuks on your person and get caught it's a felony. I guess in some legislator's mind, everyone knows what nunchuks are for and how to use them.......whereas many may have to take a gun course to learn how to pick it up and shoot.:rolleyes:

[Sweeet]

I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about the legality of usage of MA in Canada, and about citizens arrests and self-defense for example. I'm clueless, but it's need-to-know information for me. Any info or ideas would be appreciated.

Sweeet.

[waya]

Khafra,
The authority given to a private citizen varies by state. In Illinois, private citizens are limited basically the same as you were told, but in Iowa (right across the river) private citizens and private security (not certified for this purpose) can make legal arrests. States vary greatly in their laws on this subject. The same laws usually apply to most private security the same as they apply to any citizen not sworn as a peace officer. the biggest thing in the US to watch if you are attempting to "detain" someone for a crime you witnessed is what you say to them. Yelling something like "Stop thief" or anything of that sort will generally get them off the charges if they have a decent attorney because it is a form of slander. They haven't been proven guilty yet no matter what you witnessed. Look up Tort Law and you'll find most of the information there. As well listed somewhere with it, you should find the laws specific to your area available on the subject of making a "citizen's arrest"

Rob

[khafra]

Guess it's time for a visit to the local library. Would it be slander if I yelled "Freeze, motherf******?"