Couple Questions

[Sweeet]

I have three questions - two of which are posed mainly to Waya, as he has experience in both Shotokan, TKD, and Hapkido.

To anyone: it seems like many people on this site maintain training regiments in more than one style at a time - I'm just wondering how you manage this. I'm currently a student, and I only have time to train at one school, but I am loving it and think that it's definitely a possibility in the future that I might want to try other schools whilst not leaving the one that I'm currently in. Will this mess up my training? Should I ask my instructor? ect.

Secondly, one of the main reasons I became interested in MA's is from a friend in school who is a 1st Dan in Shotokan Karate at 15. He is extremely good, and has done so well in tournaments that I believe he is 2nd in Canada in his weight class and only 16 now. Although I originally thought that I wanted to do Karate, as I researched I found that I liked my alternatives better - I was just wondering from someone how has experience in both - how does Karate compare in training, technique, and practicality (to Hapkido)? From what little I know, Karate is more oriented towards perfecting a small set of basic techniques as opposed to Hapkido's breadth of thousands of techniques.

And finally - (whew) - I was under the impression that Karate and Tae Kwon Do were very much the same art - at least in technique and training aspects. I know that Karate is an umbrella term, but I just mean in general. My question is - would you say it is worthwhile (given I have a 1st Dan in TKD, lets say) to spend years training in Karate as well? Or would my time be better spent training in something more different - like Tiajitsu, or Kali, for example?

Appreciate any thoughts.

Sweeet.

[Andrew Green]

Originally posted by Sweeet
I have three questions - two of which are posed mainly to Waya, as he has experience in both Shotokan, TKD, and Hapkido.

To anyone: it seems like many people on this site maintain training regiments in more than one style at a time - I'm just wondering how you manage this. I'm currently a student, and I only have time to train at one school, but I am loving it and think that it's definitely a possibility in the future that I might want to try other schools whilst not leaving the one that I'm currently in. Will this mess up my training? Should I ask my instructor? ect.


You shouldn't need permission, but its probably better to tell your instructor what you plan on doing.


Secondly, one of the main reasons I became interested in MA's is from a friend in school who is a 1st Dan in Shotokan Karate at 15. He is extremely good, and has done so well in tournaments that I believe he is 2nd in Canada in his weight class and only 16 now. Although I originally thought that I wanted to do Karate, as I researched I found that I liked my alternatives better - I was just wondering from someone how has experience in both - how does Karate compare in training, technique, and practicality (to Hapkido)? From what little I know, Karate is more oriented towards perfecting a small set of basic techniques as opposed to Hapkido's breadth of thousands of techniques.


Depends on the school, karate contains far more "techniques" then you'll ever need or be able to master. Many schools don't teach them all. I have seen little if anything in hapkido that does not exist within karate.


And finally - (whew) - I was under the impression that Karate and Tae Kwon Do were very much the same art - at least in technique and training aspects. I know that Karate is an umbrella term, but I just mean in general.


Tae Kwon Do is derrived mainly from Shotokan karate. It is a koreanized version of karate. Recently it has become the National Sport of Korea. Many elements of Shotokan where lost in the process, but other things where added.

Shotokan is a Japanified version of Okinawan karate, again many elements where lost along the way, but other things where introduced.

Okinawan karate comes out of a indigeounous martial art, and various Kung Fu influences.

Tae Kwon Do, especially old style TKD is very much like Shotokan. It has however evolved into something seperate.

However modern TKD, is very different from what goes on in many karate shools. The techniques are different, the training methods are different, the sparring is different, etc.

We kick the legs and groin and rarelt higher. We grab you and dig our elbows in, we twist you up, throw you down, tie you in a knot and hit you with a stick


My question is - would you say it is worthwhile (given I have a 1st Dan in TKD, lets say) to spend years training in Karate as well? Or would my time be better spent training in something more different - like Tiajitsu, or Kali, for example?

Appreciate any thoughts.

Sweeet.

It depends on the school, a Karate school may be as different in content as either of those.

[Andy Murray]

Hi Sweeet,

"it's definitely a possibility in the future that I might want to try other schools whilst not leaving the one that I'm currently in. Will this mess up my training? Should I ask my instructor? ect."

Schools of thought may vary on this, but I would have thought it courteous to make your instructor aware of your intentions.
An instructor is likely to spot someone training in another style through tell tale signs, so it would be better if you offered the information rather than being quizzed about it.
Your instructor is also concerned with your physical wellbeing, and should be made aware for this reason alone.

Personally, I don't believe crosstraining is in anyway harmful to your core art, quite the opposite in fact. The confusion would be if you chose a second art that was very similar to the first.
Try not to drop one thing in preference of another though, as there is a danger of being an apprentice in many disciplines, and a master of none.

Good Luck

Andy

[morphus]

How you doing?

My advice in short would be to train in your original disipline for as long as you can, when you start to ask yourself questions on how you would use techniques in the street and not getting "your own" satisfactory answers (and i think that time will come) then look elsewhere, perhaps to a totally different art. By different i mean maybe a concept/crosstraining art, there are plenty about but don't be too hasty, look around for right one for you!;)

[waya]

I have somewhat conflicting beliefs on crosstraining from most people. I don't really have a "core" art, I train in everything I can get myself into, then adapt it to myself. Hapkido is one of a few arts that have tempted me to change how I train and stick with one system though.

Personally I agree with everyone else that it is a matter of respect in informing your instructor of your desire to train elsewhere. Mostly they will be able to give you advice on how to do it so you don't overload yourself.

Training in both TKD and my background in Shotokan, I don't think they are the same art at all, but the basic techniques and applications are definitely not very different in my experience. There are alot of applications and techniques though that are in the "real" system of TKD that are very far apart. Korea was very advanced in their training before the Occupations by japan and China and the subsequent banning of their arts. Tae Kyon, which some of the techniques are said to have originated from, is one example of many lost arts that were said to be very combative. I think that crosstraining into a Japanese influenced art would help you much more than it would hinder your training. There is alot of the harder training found in the Japanese oriented schools that is missing in some TKD schools (mainly WTF systems from what I have been exposed to). So I would say that if you have found a good instructor to go for it.

You are right about the smaller number of techiques found in Karate vs something like Aikido, Hapkido, or any number of arts like them. I really wouldn't say that there is an even basis for comparison because I have found both concepts work very well for different people, And knowing a myriad of techniques gives you more room to find what works for you, and train that harder than the rest to make it natural. That is more of the mindset I have found in Tai Jutsu systems such as the Bujinkan, and it has worked very well for me.

Finding time is a more complicated thing. Alot of people I know train one day a week and spread it out. I train either alone, or with an instructor every day. If I am alone I work on different systems each day, sometimes thigns from two different arts in the same day, depending on the time I have available. I also train a couple days a week with different instructors, some days I have two or three classes, then pile work on top of it. If you manage yourself well and give thought to how much time you want to spend and where you want it spent at, you can work it out, although there will be some difficulties at first you should be able to find a method that will work for you.

Rob

[Freeform]

From personal experience I'd advise you to train to a good/high level of ability in one style before you start cross-training. Once you've found a 'core' style that you like use that as your foundation, the basics of MA are virtually the same in any style.

I'm lucky in that in my core style, Tai Jitsu, your trained as an individual not a student so you tend to progress faster. Your then actively encouraged to try differnet styles, see what works for you then adapt it for you, so that in effect you have a system thats all your own.

I also think that you should tell your instructor that your cross training as a mark of respect, it might also help your class improve as well. From Shotokan I take a higher level of kicking than is normally found in a Tai Jitsu school so that we can better practice our defences from them. From Tai Jits/Judo I take breakfalls to Karate so that you can actually practice all the sweeps to a more realistic degree.

when you start to ask yourself questions on how you would use techniques in the street and not getting "your own" satisfactory answers (and i think that time will come) then look elsewhere

You should be asking yourself these questions from the first day, otherwise whats the point?

Thanx

[morphus]

The reason i think you will ask questions after training for a while is that, when you first enter your chosen art you are not really qualified and don't know what might work and what won't, all tutors will tell you it works and well it might for them but after that little while - training, you start to get the feel for what works for you and what doesnt, then when you look at other arts you can recognise what is what and which is which!;)

[Freeform]

I suppose it comes down to the reason of why you started training in the first place. I see no real point in systems that would claim to make you invincible if you trained them for 10 years.

I could understand children or someone who's never seen a fight (even on on the telly) not really questioning these this, but as adults with life experience we should be able to cut the crap from what really works.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanx

[morphus]

I personally started MA s to protect/defend myself - i have seen plenty of fights, i live in a council suburb of Cardiff where crime is rife and the police have less and less powers to fight it(but thats another debate) i just thought it was a jumbled disgusting mess when there was a fight, disgusting was the right analogy but not always a mess - there is an order to it in some cases. Now i have trained i MA s i seem to be able recognise it from the moment it starts to form, i surpose this is awareness something i had to learn. I thought fights were just fisty cuffs and rolling about on the deck but there are definatly 'the' techniques that work for me, i also had to learn this, i wouldn't have known what would work and what wouldn't until i started training then when i had experience i had that 'feel' for was good for me to use and what wasn't.
Make any sence? I hope it does.
cheers!

[Sweeet]

I'm training in Martial Arts so that I can become fully proficient in all situations that would involve hand to hand / weapons combat or the need for me to restrain or forcibly move someone, for example. I'm already doing tons of sports, so fitness isn't really a goal of my training, although I'm sure it does help - I've already seen a serious increase in my flexibility and strength of some muscles that I wouldn't otherwise use very much.

I guess the other 'main' reason that I'm doing it is to help me with my discipline, as I can become lazy but I think that MA might just help to keep me focused on my goals.

Sweeet.