hung ga vs wing chun

[cbraves85]

I have heard many people compare hung ga and wing chun. What are the similarities and differecnces?

[Anonymouse]

I started studying Wing Chun about the same time my brother started studying Hung Gar, and right away I could tell many differences, and some similarities. First off, Hung Gar uses a lot of stance transitions to acheive power, where as wing chun has 1 stance with a couple variations in facing and weight placement. Hung Gar uses mostly a horizontal punch, and is designed to take out opponents with 1 punch, where Wing Chun uses chain punching with a verticle fist. Hung Gar uses alot of high power strikes and wide sweeping motions, Wing Chun uses leverage and speed, as well as keeps its motions to a minimum to conserve energy until it is needed. Blocks in Hung Gar are very clumsy feeling as you usually send your arms all the way across your body (ie to block a roundhouse from your opponents right leg, you would use a crouching elbow up block with your right arm from a twisted stance) leaving your back exposed, blocks in Wing Chun require little movement and usually involve redirection instead of taking the full force of the blow. When using Wing Chun one might use a slap block (or knifehand chop hehe) with the opposite hand (left hand for a right kick and vise versa) for a roundhouse while stepping in with a palm strike or verticle punch. There are quite a bit more subtle differences, but thats what I could think of off the top of my head.

As far as similarities go, I cant think of a whole lot, basically, they both focus on simultaneous attack and defense (although defense in Hung Gar is exagerated and designed to throw and opponents limbs to knock them off balance for a kidney strike or punch to the neck). Um... neither style has many kicks... I dunno, Ill post more if I think of any.


Oh yeah! The square horse in Hung Gar is 2 shoulder widths apart with toes facing straight forward, in Wing Chun its about 1 shoulder width apart, with toes pointed inward.

Hope that was informative!

[Sub zero]

"Hung Gar is a northern style"

I study Hung gar. and i have to say that i'm pretty sure that it's not a northen style. It's perhaps the most typical Southern style you could find. It's one of the five main southern family systems.

any way. I wouldn't call the blocks in HG clumsy.if the hand doesn't go past the face how are you ment to block a strike to the face?By stopping your hand before it gets across ur face so he can hit you in teh jaw? :S Just a bit comfused by that statement.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by Sub zero
"Hung Gar is a northern style"

I study Hung gar. and i have to say that i'm pretty sure that it's not a northen style. It's perhaps the most typical Southern style you could find. It's one of the five main southern family systems.

any way. I wouldn't call the blocks in HG clumsy.if the hand doesn't go past the face how are you ment to block a strike to the face?By stopping your hand before it gets across ur face so he can hit you in teh jaw? :S Just a bit comfused by that statement.


Yeah, I was wrong about Hung Gar being a northern style (see the 'hardcore kung fu' thread).


I dunno if the word 'clumsy' was the right word there, what I meant was that a lot of blocks in Hung Gar involve bringing the arm all the way across the body. Like in the roundhouse example. In the book my brother is studying from, it says to block a left right punch combo, you would block the left punch with your left hand and the right with your right, pivoting the whole body with the block each time. Its just slower than Wing Chun because you have to move your whole body with it, though, granted the blocks are stronger and will unbalance the opponent.

[Sub zero]

Sorry about my post was a bit snappy. Yeh i've seen teh hardcore thread.

That is one way of blocking but it is a very slow way. Persoanlly i think that as long as the rest of your body is in a strong position (which doesn't need stance training ) then ur blocks should be alright.

I don't know blocking can be done in so many different ways.ne way.............

[TM77]

I've never studied hung gar but I've met a few people who have.
Hung gar tends to be strength oriented, utilizing hard blocks and strikes where as in wing chun you need little strength to make it work. Hung gar also uses a lot of animal techniques...wing chun has taken a lot from the animal styles but they're so streamlined they can be a little hard to recognize, with the exception of the snake and crane techniques which are obvious. There are a lot of low stances in hung gar where as in wing chun there are none.

The biggest similarity I can thing of at the moment is that they're both Chinese:D

[PantherFist]

In regard to Wing Chun having no low stances, wait until you start learning six and half point pole. You will be using quite a low horse stance.

[Smee]

Is your brother only learning from a book?

I'm not trying to be smart but any style could appear clumsy if you only learn from a book. It's easy to get things only slightly wrong but with a major adverse effect.

I study Hung Gar and can only offer very limited views on Wing Chun as I have no real knowledge of the style.

Hung Gar is a traditional southern style which is based upon having solid, rooted stances as stance transitions do indeed provide much of the striking power.

Blocks in Hung Gar are not clumsy at all. However, they are designed to inflict maximum damage on your opponents limbs so, at the very least, he has second thoughts about attacking again

[Smee]

Is your brother only learning from a book?

I'm not trying to be clever but any style could appear clumsy if you only learn from a book. It's easy to get things only slightly wrong but with a major adverse effect.

Well done for trying to learn anyway you can though...

I study Hung Gar and can only offer very limited views on Wing Chun as I have no real knowledge of the style.

Hung Gar is a traditional southern style which is based upon having solid, rooted stances as stance transitions do indeed provide much of the striking power.

Blocks in Hung Gar are not clumsy at all. However, they are designed to inflict maximum damage on your opponents limbs so, at the very least, he has second thoughts about attacking again

:D

For this reason, Hung Gar places much emphasis on training the forearms using kiu sau or "bridge hand". You may recognise this as the hand form where only the index finger is pointed upwards. This strengthens the arms ligaments and tendons and builds forearm strength.

Some Hung gar techniques (which can often be both blocks or strikes) may appear clumsy but - if shown by a good practitioner - are very effective. One such example is pao choy or wave punch. This can be a block, an arm break or a rising punch.

Wing Chun does emphasise higher stances than Hung Gar and shorter movements. However, they are both just variations on a theme.The common thread with both arts is that they require destruction of the opponent in the shortest possible time and with least amount of energy.

Hope this helps a bit....
Paul

[Smee]

By the way, not all Hung Gar blocks and strikes emphasise hard movements.

Hung Gar emphasises both hard (gong) and soft(yao) energies with many variations in between. These principles are encapsulated in the 12 bridges concepts which are complex to explain even if I understood them properly myself.

Suffice to say, that the Hard elements form only a small part of Hung Gar and the general application of hardness should become softer as you gain experience. (as in most external systems).

[Anonymouse]

Like I said before, clumsy probably wasnt the best word to use there...

As far as softness in Hung Gar goes, I havent seen any of their soft techniques at all, but then I only get to see what gets thrown at me when sparring. Ive only browsed through his book, and done little to no research on Hung Gar, as Im not really that interested in learning more than the fundamentals of it.


"Is your brother only learning from a book?"

As far as Hung Gar goes, I belive thats been his only reference. Our family has some pretty deep roots in martial arts since my uncle came over from the Philipines and brought with him several asian styles (including Arnis De Mano). My dad went up for his golden gloves as a teenager (but was removed from the league for being too violent :( ). The basics of attacking and defending are pretty standard between MA's and we know enough about the basics to get a lot out of a book on a single style.

Anyway, I think that its possible to get a lot more out of good MA books than most people think. Not everyone learns the same way, some people need some direction from a teacher, some need to have their hands held the whole time until they get it, while others need very little direction. It all depends on the person and the literature. Then someones going to say "without an instructor you are loosing a very useful point of view, that with a book you wouldnt normally get". Well to that I say, not everyone is lucky enough to have an instructor as their disposal, especially when you live in the middle of nowhere.

[Smee]

What you say is true enough. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have an instructor nearby in their chosen style so good on you for trying to learn what you can. Your family seems to have some good experience to draw from....

I wasn't criticising at all - only pointing out that subtle corrections can make a huge difference to techniques.

I should know - I'm always being subtly corrected....

:D

[Sub zero]

Me too.

Oh BTW when i said strikes in Hung gar don't need stance training i ment stance changing. It has now been edited.

[Sub zero]

Oh well maybe not. 'ys been to long so apparently i can't edit it.Oh well. doesn't matter

[jmd161]

Originally posted by Anonymouse
Our family has some pretty deep roots in martial arts since my uncle came over from the Philipines and brought with him several asian styles (including Arnis De Mano).

The basics of attacking and defending are pretty standard between MA's and we know enough about the basics to get a lot out of a book on a single style.

Anyway, I think that its possible to get a lot more out of good MA books than most people think. Not everyone learns the same way, some people need some direction from a teacher, some need to have their hands held the whole time until they get it, while others need very little direction. It all depends on the person and the literature. Then someones going to say "without an instructor you are loosing a very useful point of view, that with a book you wouldnt normally get". Well to that I say, not everyone is lucky enough to have an instructor as their disposal, especially when you live in the middle of nowhere.


While i do agree with your statement about not everyone is lucky enough to have an instructor as their disposal.So in that case a book is better than nothing by far.It can give you some basics in which to work on and become pretty good at.

I have to disagree with you on your statement that.The basics of attacking and defending are pretty standard between MA's and we know enough about the basics to get a lot out of a book on a single style.I don't care how many MA's you learn it will never give you enough to figure out what the author of the book is trying to get across.

Lets use Hung Gar since that's one of the styles you guys were speaking of.There are sooo many different lineages of Hung Gar alone.Unless you know about the different lineages how would you know how to perform the techniques? They all have different thoughts on some of the same techniques.Some perform with more power than others .Others perform it with a more softer feel.There are reasons why they do this not just to be softer or harder than the other.

These are things that you will not learn by reading a book on Hung Gar.That's why you need a teacher to help you understand certain methods and ways of thinking.Hung Gar and my style BLack Tiger are very very close styles.But if you tried to do Black Tiger like Hung Gar then you are missing the entire point.

It's great that your family has a solid backgroung in martial arts.But that does'nt really give you any advantage to learning a different style from a book or video.Infact it kinda hinders you.Because since you only have your background to guide you.You're going to end up bringing your flavor into whatever new art you are trying to learn.I'm not saying that's a bad thing.But you're not truly learning Hung Gar at that point.You're learning techniques of Hung Gar but with your familys twist on it.


jeff:)