Gym Workouts

[Saz]

I'm actually renewing my gym membership this week, and having not been for ages, I'm trying to be serious about it this time. What I wanna do is use the gym to complement my MA training, but I'm not sure what the best way to go about this is. My main priorities I need to work on are strength and cardio work, but whats the best way to go about this?

[Tommy_P]

Opinions vary greatly when it comes to weight training but I'll throw my 2 cents in:) .

I believe that a weight trainee is a weight trainee, meaning same for woman as for men. Some people design "easier" workouts for woman, I don't believe thats right.

I won't actually give you a routine suggestion but I'll give you an idea of what I do and my philosophy on gaining strength. The rest is a personal choice as far as knowing what's right "for you".

I believe in the compound lifts, excercises that work more than one muscle group, not isolation movements that focus on isolating one muscle at a time. Lifts such as: Bench presses, overhead presses, rows, chinups, squats and deadlifts. Maybe even a curl thrown in. Thats all you need to work the major muscle groups (the strength core) as well as the smaller muscles and stabilizers.

An example would be the bench press. It works the chest as well as the front delts and tricepts.......3 for 1! Or the deadlift which works the legs, back, forearms,traps, erectors and hips as well as your grip. The above lifts are all you need split into 2 workouts, IMO.

I use these lifts for a few sets of 5 reps, but like I said, thats a personal thing. For me lower reps equals strength. You can also use the same lifts for higher reps. I would suggest 8-12. What ever lifts you use it shoud be brief and intense. Just a few lifts.

As for cardio, again here you need to know what you are looking for. For general heart health you may want to only do 20-30 minutes at a moderate pace at your age adjusted heart rate ( 220 minus your age). Thats your target heart rate, 60-80% of that is fine. To lose weight you would need a longer duration.

If it's conditioning you are looking for then you may want to do shorter bursts of "high" intensity (80-90%, even 100%) of your target heart rate for 10 minutes at a time, then slow down to a lower heart rate for a few minutes and then back up etc.

You can mix and match this also. Such as doing one day for conditioning and two for general heart health.

I would aim for 2-3 days of weight training and at least 3 cardio. Maybe less cardio if your karate is fast paced. Being an ex Kyokushin practitioner, I know that warmup and basics are pretty fast paced.

Tommy

[YODA]

Excellent advice Tommy.

Too many people get caught up in huge volumes of ineffective weight training.

Weight training for strength should be very intense, brief & infrequent. For example at the moment I am getting good gains on the following programme that takes no longer than an hour - often less, twice per week...

Squat
Deadlift (Bent legged)
Flat bench press
Chins

Things like cable crossovers, concentration curls, dumbell kickbacks etc have no place in a martial artists strength training routine.

Also I agree that there is NO reason a woman must train any different to a man using weights.

[Silver_no2]

Originally posted by YODA
Things like cable crossovers, concentration curls, dumbell kickbacks etc have no place in a martial artists strength training routine.Surely, Master Yoda, that depends on the Martial Art that you are training for? I would have thought, for example, that anyone doing the grappling arts would benefit from working on concentration curls. I realise that it is not down to strength but rather technique, but when both practitioners are of similar skill then the extra strngth may help. :D

Also, while I am not in the best of shape myself I would have thought that it would be detrimental to only work on the muscles you believe are used in your MA. I have seen several people concentrate too much on certain aspects of weight training and suffer injuries when the areas that they have not concentrated on are called upon and are not up to the task. (Knees of several rugby players springs to mind). Sure, work more on the muscles that you are going to use in your art, but you should do some work on the others as well.

[YODA]

Hi Silver

My list of non-essential exercises refered to isolation over compound movements. The biceps get worked just fine by doing heavy pulling movements like chins & rows. There is no need to isolate it with a concentration curl.

A martial artists strength training routine should cater for general all over strength - using big compound movements. No muscle works in isolation when you fight - whatever your art.

[Saz]

The compound exersize's definetly seem to make more sense that just working the muscles in isolation, which is what I've done previously, with little effect. I'm planning to start on 8-10 reps, but is it best to use a heavier weight, or a lighter weight? Also, what exactly are chins and deadlifts? I'm sure I've encountered them before, but can't place the actual exersize.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Heavier weight with fewer reps builds bulk.
Lighter weight with more reps tones.

[YODA]

It's a little more scientific than "bulk" and "tones"

Heavy weight - low reps = strength
Light weight - high reps = Local Muscular Endurance (and often a reduction in strength)

Kyokushin_girl - 8-10reps is fine.

Here's some info that may be of use...

For exercise form...

http://www.gymonthehill.freeserve.co.uk/exercise_armoury.htm

Other relevant info...

http://www.physsportsmed.com/issues/1998/05may/ebben.htm

http://www.newellness.com/physfitn/strntrng.htm

http://www.naturalstrength.com/women/detail.asp?ArticleID=539

http://www.naturalstrength.com/women/detail.asp?ArticleID=195

http://www.naturalstrength.com/women/detail.asp?ArticleID=172

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I was going for the general layman's explanation, being one myself. Bulk and tones is close enough.

[YODA]

I disagree - using the word "Bulk" may give Kyokushin_girl the false impression that heavy weights & low reps will make her bulk up - it will not.

"Tones" is a word that should be banished from the athletes vocabulary. Kinda reminds me of leotards & 1kg pink dumbells - rather than athletic training with a scientific basis [:D]

[Tommy_P]

I agree with all of Yoda's above statements.

Isolation movements are the least productive and used by many in the wrong way. They're single joint movements designed to target (isolate ) a muscle using no assistance from secondary muscles. Body bodybuilders use them to enhance and fine tune their body AFTER they have built their bulk.

For a beginer to use these excercises is like using fine sandpaper on a block of wood to bring out the fine detail in a wood carving "before" you carved the shape! You need the muscles to isolate before you can isolate them:) .

Heavy weight = strength, you can't use heavy weight with small excercises.

As for the "bulk" issue, forget it. Unless the lifter is geneticly gifted (which is rare) the only way to get 'big" is by eating big. It takes big lifting and even bigger eating. To gain an inch on your arms you may have to gain 10-15 lbs body weight.

You can't "tone" a muscle, thats a word someone made up. It's from the initial loss of bodyfat and slight gain in muscle beginners get when lifting and doing cardio. Either you build muscle or you don't.....period! it's not "tone", it's new muscle. Again, if you gain it fast (beginner gains) and without extra food (calories), it will fade away within a couple of weeks of stopping lifting.

I would do chinups with palms facing yourself (supinated) and shoulder width apart to work the biceps also. This grip will also allow you to use more weight which IMO is the best grip for any excercise. (more weight more strength).

Deadlifts are basicly lifting a loaded barbell off the floor, standing with it at arms length then setting it down again for the disired reps. This is a very basic explanation as form is of utmost importance and must be learned but it's one of the greatest lifts for building "overall' body strength.

Tommy

[GICKER]

There are many to train and as students we never stop learning there are meny god books out there.
ie Stretching without pain-ISBN 1-873017-05-7

Strenght Training Anatomy-ISBN 0-7360-4185-0

The Muscle Book- ISBN 1-87017-0-0-6

Peak Performance-Coaches Training -Secrets

[YODA]

If you want a book on weight training may I make a suggestion....

http://www.hardgainer.com/images/beyondbrawnb2.jpg

http://www.hardgainer.com/beyondbrawn.html

[Tommy_P]

Yoda,

Excellent book and I believe it will open the eyes of any who "study" it. A good companion to this is the Insiders tell all technique book by the same author.

I apply most of Stuarts philosophies to my training (gym) since discovering his original book "Brawn" back in '93. Other insperations were Dr. Ken and Bob Whelen and anything written by them.

These days I follow a mixture of Stuart, Brooks Kubik (Dinosaur training) and John Christy.

I like Dinosaur training for Martial artist because I think great benifit can come out of "odd object" lifting concerning gripping strength as well as stabilizer muscle stability as well as overall body strength. Things like heavy sandbag lifting /carries, stone lifting, farmers walks, pushing cars around the block etc.

Good suggestion Yoda,

This is a big part of my library along with: Super Squats, Dinosaur Training, Keys to Progress, Mastery of hand strength and the like.



Tommy

[YODA]

I use his training tracker too - another good companion to the above book.

[Freeform]

Yoda, do you not think that isolating the bicep gives you a bit more power (yes I know you should be using technique) to help resist the ever dangerous Juji Gatame?

Thanx

[YODA]

Hi Freeform

If the Juji-gatame is applied properly then it is designed to limit the availablility of the biceps in resisting the movement.

When we do Juji Gatame we position the opponent's hand thumb up - this effectively "turns off" the biceps and engages the brachioradialis as prime mover instead. This is a much weaker action - see how much you can hammer curl compared to biceps curl!

So - if you Do wish to do strength training specifically for resisting the armbar then your time would be more productive doing hammer curls. BUT - I think you'd be better off spending the time learning not to get taken for the armbar in the first place or at least in countering the movement AS it's applied - for example, turning your hand thumb down and grabbing his Gi then using your legs to disrupt the posture he needs for an effective technique.

[Freeform]

I don't often get taken with it except when fighting quite skilled opponents such as my 5th Dan of a Judo Instructor (you see my problem :) ). A lot of guys try to take Juji palm up to prevent the roll out motion of the arm (pointing thumb downward, as you said) also hurts a hell of a lot more in that position, but you should twist the arm once its locked out, anyway wrong thread for this talk. I'll try to do more hammer curls from now one.

Cheers

[Master Lee]

good book

[Rhizome]

I would suggest a routine of 3sets of 10-12reps to start with if your a beginner to resistance training, use a lighter load than you would use when strength training but not light enough to make no gains. Use the big compound multi-joint movements as mentioned before such as bench press,military press,squats,deadlift,chins and dips. You will make natural strength gains at the start anyway. Now that your body is used to resistance you will be wanting to use heavy loads anywhere from 85-100% of your 1RPM with the same exercise choices above. Also for the rep tempo you should be using explosive/ballistic movements.

[Colucci]

I'm quite certain KGirl has found a decent workout routine in the past 3 years. But thanks for the input, guys.