Martial arts for a little girl...

[BlindFrog]

My step-daughter is 5 years old, and I would like to sign her up for a martial arts class for several reasons; one is that she's just slightly pidgeon-toed and therefore terribly clumbsy (she's always got bruises or stitches from falling down for no reason at all), and the second and biggest is that she's just too (TOO) CHICK-ISH! Her dad and I would like for her to learn to be a little bit tougher, mentally and physically.

She would only be able to attend these classes when she's with us two or three times per month. I know it's not a lot, but her mom doesn't support this effort. I considered ballet lessons, but she actually shows more interest in martial arts, and of course ballet won't help her be more balanced (less chickish).

Here's the dilema... too many options! We are overwhelmed! I initially thought Jujitsu based purely on hearsay which is weak, and the "selectsmart" I found in another post recommended Aikido. Any advise would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

[Dark Blade]

Ballet would greatly help with balance, I have a friends that studies both ballet and karate, and he has gained so much from the combination, watching him fight is like watching the Matrix :p. And I remember my sempei going to a ballet school and thinking it was to "chickish", then seeing the power and grace behind it, and she never thought the same way about it again.

Maybe Kung fu?
Karate?
Hmmm, I think because girls are naturally weaker (No offence intended to anyone, it's just the truth), something that stressed technique, so Kung Fu sounds good.
And I'm very very serious when I say you be wise taking her to do some ballet to go with it. In fact, if you want her to get the most out of Martial arts she possibly can, you should definitely take her to ballet, definitely.
Kung Fu and Ballet.....What an idea.
You could consider gymnastics too if you like, that would make her much more balanced, and it works well with Martial Arts.
But to get the most out of it, I think Ballet and Kung Fu is the way to go.
Anyway, hope I helped in anyway!
Good luck!
:D

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by BlindFrog
My step-daughter is 5 years old, and I would like to sign her up for a martial arts class for several reasons; one is that she's just slightly pidgeon-toed and therefore terribly clumbsy (she's always got bruises or stitches from falling down for no reason at all), and the second and biggest is that she's just too (TOO) CHICK-ISH! Her dad and I would like for her to learn to be a little bit tougher, mentally and physically.



Two different issues there.
One physical, one mental.

An art like Tai Chi, with it's smooth transitions from one posture to another could be very beneficial to your daughter in posture correction and self awareness, though at 5, it's unlikely (not impossible) that she'll have the patience for it.

Have a good look round what's available in your area.

At 5, it's probably more important that she has fun more than anything else. Look for a class where the other kids are having fun, are well supervised and taught in a clean, safe responsible environment.

If you let us know which area you are in, one of the members here may even be able to make a reccomendation.

[Drealoth]

I wish I took ballet...I can just imagine the flexability...

[BlindFrog]

Wow! I'm really impressed, and grateful for the advice! I've already been in contact with a ballet / tap / clogging school here in our area, so we're just missing the martial arts school. I was a skater and took ballet for a short time, so I can't believe that it didn't occur to me before that they would be complimentary.

If it makes any difference, my step-daughter's mother is a kindergarten teacher and is therefore taking good care of her mind. She has incredible tolerance for concentration on a single task-- much more than you'd expect from a kid her age. But she has no motor skills at all!

We live in Texas, just outside of Dallas. If someone could recommend a school here, I would be indebted to y'all once again.

[Andy Murray]

Member/Moderator Pesilat is from Texas (curse those Armadilloes).

Y'all hang on till he gits here. ;) :D

[morphus]

Martial arts for a five yr old... i would go for something simple to learn to start kick boxing maybe for the coordination. Then maybe later she could move on to something like aikido or even something like Wu Shu.
Most important make sure she enjoys it!:)

[snake_vs_crane]

in my ignorent oppinion i would say judo, lots of practice on how to fall without hurting yourself and full resistance sparring.

[Kof_Andy]

I would recommend Taekwondo for a 5 year old, is simple and competitive. I bring my kids to compete every years, and kids love that sort of stuff once you get them to start. It will definitly give her better confidence and all that other good stuff. Pigeon toes is not a big deal I think, they'll grow out of it. I had pigeon toes when I was younger, and I was the fastest in middle school. So yeah check out Taekwondo in your area.

[YODA]

Originally posted by snake_vs_crane
in my ignorent oppinion i would say judo, lots of practice on how to fall without hurting yourself and full resistance sparring.


Another vote for Judo

Here are my general thoughts on martial arts for children, from my MA kids website...

Nature has evolved a very efficient method of preparing its youngsters for adult life. PLAY! Play should be the basis for learning. Our kids programme is designed to use an environment based on "Play As The Way" which encourages our kids to train in an environment filled with fun, discovery and laughter! Too many martial arts schools try to turn out little clones that march up & down responding in unison to regimental commands barked out in a language they don't understand or relate to. There just has to be a better way - Play is that way! Play is healthy, play is natural, play is effective - and play works! What play does not do is turn out insecure teenage toughies wearing combat gear who decide to go back to school to "Show 'em all"

For more info on "Play as the way" have a look at Louis' website over at www.onedragon.com

[neryo_tkd]

i agree with Kof_Andy.

Taekwondo might help. Since she is 5, u have to find out whether or not there are taekwondo classes for kids, because there are classes called taekwondo kindergarten, taekwondo playground etc. a lot of ''playing'' is involved, but that playing consists of many different exercises, and the kids are not even aware that they are exercising. it's actually quite interesting.

[Yang, Dae-han]

Above all else, you need to focus on what she would like.

As an educator, I see too many parents put their children in the wrong situations (in academics and sport).

What you need to be concerned with, at this age, is not about the art....but more so the instruction and how that instruction will be taken by your child.

You need to focus on the teacher's attributes as an educator, and that in turn will give your daughter great rewards, regardless of the style.

I routinely visit Taekwondo, Hapkido, and Kumdo (Kendo) schools (all very different in style)...and each school teaches their 5 year olds (if the have them) nothing like the elder students. In addition, among these masters, some are naturally better with children (in motivation and explanation).

This is what you should focus on. When the time comes, and she continues for years, then you may move on to another style/educator, that best suits her needs then.

Take care,

Dae-han

[mild7]

If it was my OWN daughter, I'd let her learn Judo. When she gets older I'll let her branch off into BJJ and encourage her to take personal research on combative strategy(e.g. tony blauer's tapes, rapesafe tapes etc).

But that's because my main concern is her safety. Women get raped, which is not about punching or kicking but rather a 'surprise' where she will be forced to the ground, hence the BJJ/Judo.

BUT..... it is different for different ppl. While I feel Judo is a lot of fun for kids(my niece loves it!), I have also seen good kiddie Taekwondo programs as well. It instils some discipline and self-respect to the kids so it's good, so long as the kids know the limitations of any martial art.

Like Yoda says, find something that your stepdaughter will enjoy! If she is'nt having fun I guarantee she will not keep up with it. Kids are mainly concerned with playing and having a good time, so let them be kids. When they grow up there'll be plenty of time to look into serious MA, meditation etc.

[KickChick]

Originally posted by BlindFrog
.....the second and biggest is that she's just too (TOO) CHICK-ISH! ..... I considered ballet lessons, but she actually shows more interest in martial arts, and of course ballet won't help her be more balanced (less chickish).

LOL ... what's so wrong with being "CHICK-ISH"???? :D ;)

My daughter started Tae Kwon do at age 5, but had taken ballet for 2 years prior. We chose ballet for her for the opposite reasons that you stated ... she was too BOY-ish).

I myself had taken ballet myself for 8 years as a child and maybe that is why deep down inside I chose TKD... my degree of flexibility, coordination, balance achieved from all those years made training in TKD rather effortless.

True, ballet it had given her some coordination, balance, graceful moves and a degree of flexibility ... but when she saw the kids at my TKD school during class, she wanted to try TKD instead.

She got her black belt at age 12 and I find that at least now at age 16 she can defend herself if need be ....

Look for a "Little Dragons" -type program that is geared more for the little kids ...

[Little Shaolin]

I assist my Sufi in a Kids class, and in my oppinion I think you should find a martial arts studio that teaches a variety of styles. So a typical day starts with warm ups, boxing drills, maybe 5 minutes of Tia Chi, then on to grappling. This way the child learns a lot of basic moves. We also like to play games to keep them having fun. I have a 5 year old girl in the class, and in three months she knows jab, cross, hook, thai kicks, the chicken wing and the figure four upper arm branch. Hope this helps! Have a good one.

[aikiMac]

Originally posted by BlindFrog
My step-daughter is 5 years old, and I would like to sign her up for a martial arts class for several reasons; ... and the second and biggest is that she's just too (TOO) CHICK-ISH! Her dad and I would like for her to learn to be a little bit tougher, mentally and physically.
Dude, a comment like that really makes me mad. She's only FIVE! And she's a girl! HELLO! SHE'S ONLY FIVE! AND SHE'S A GIRL!

Sheesh! Leave the kid alone! Wait until God is done with her before criticizing her! Maybe if she was 25 you'd have reason to criticize, but at five ... may God have mercy on you! Crimey!

Ballet is good for five-year-old girls, but Yoda gave the best (and correct) answer: let the girl play and have fun.

Gee-whiz, she's only five! Take her to the park more often and let her play more often with other five-year-olds!

[BlindFrog]

We take her to play every chance we get, which is 1 day out of every 7 as mandated by the court. I openly and honestly asked for information about MARTIAL ARTS-- not for criticism about my parenting skills. I fail to understand why becoming a parent (in my case a step-parent) makes the world your critic.

Back to the topic, she needs more confidence in her physical abilities (e.g., to learn not to trip over her own feet), and in the very short time we have to spend with her martial arts is the most intense training I can think of ... and the BIGGEST PLUS is that she's showing an interest in it.

As I had said in some off-line conversations, I really like the play is the way classes. That is what we are looking for-- her dad and I agree that it sounds exactly right for her. It just seems that there are not many in the area in which we live.

Please don't let me discourage people from commenting on martial arts for kids-- it's a topic about which neither her dad nor I know anything at all, and the more information we have the better off we all are. But truthfully, I get all the personal criticism I need and then some from her mother.

[jwc]

Is she interested in wrestling (Judo) or kicking and punching (taekwondo, karate, kung fu)?

[Darkflames21]

My vote is for Tae Kwon Do. Many Schools have classes solely for little kids and there, she will have fun plus learn a great style and balnace, due to the kicks she would learn. Try to find a school and watch one of his classes. Then the decidsion is up to you.

[BlindFrog]

That's the key question! Remember that-- besides the fact that she's really intelligent and super-disciplined for a kid, she is only kid. Part of the problem is that her movie idols are a great deal responsible for her interest in martial arts-- e.g., their grace and ability to (gracefully) defend themselves. But we've seen Spiderman, Scooby-Doo, and even Matrix (etc!) so many times that we all have the dialogue memorized, but we can't tell one art form from the other. That's really why we're here... surfing your postings trying to learn all we can.

It almost sounds corney to say, but we would like to instill in her a confidence with regard to physical-self that she doesn't seem to be getting anywhere else like eye-hand coordination and the ability to think-on-her-feet. By that, I specifically mean that she mentally knows that she should catch the ball when it comes her way, but instead she closes her eyes and screams. (I initially thought she was incredibly and terribly spoiled, but she is genuinely afraid and sometimes the ball is just rolling on the ground!) That's what I mean by "too chickish".

Naturally we would like to teach those things here at home, but we realize that, sadly, neither of us have the skills, and neither does her mom. So we are looking for someone who does have the skills!

So, to answer your question directly, we just don't know. But, the way she tends to freak-out, if I were to take an absolutely-baseless-stab-in-the-dark, I think it might be easier for her to start with some kind of wrestling. Does that help?

[jwc]

In my opinion, judo is the most similar to wrestling. The key is to find a good school for children. I have taken both judo and taekwondo. The atmosphere in taekwondo seemed to be better for children. The group that I practiced judo with seemed more like a Fight Club. If you think that she would prefer a wrestling martial art, check out the club first (as with any martial art). Maybe some people have had better experience with it than I have.

[nzric]

I'd agree with most of the posts - taekwondo is a good bet because it's 'fun' and she'd get a lot of confidence out of hitting and punching things. Also, few kids have the patience for something like tai chi or aikido.

Kids have so much energy, it's wrong to try to bottle it up so it should be something where she can go a bit crazy and run/jump around. If you think she'd be interested in wrestling, then do more rough-and-tumble play with her yourself. Nothing that she would learn in a dojo at that age would come close to quality time with dad. I have very young brothers (20 years younger) and I find that general playfighting with them (and letting them win!) does a lot for their confidence.

Also, any team sports would be good (not just MA). As long as other kids don't dominate the situation, she'll learn a lot from watching her peers and how they act to situations.

My partner is training to be a primary school teacher and she's doing post-grad work in sports psychology, so if you want more detailed information send me a PM and I'll ask her.

[booksie_girl]

The most popular responses are TKD, and Judo. One good point for both of these is the belt system. While many people on MAP are against this, for young kids, I think that the obvious progression, and the pride and confidence they earn from passing a grading is something that makes these arts a great choice. Let the end decision be hers. Take her to try some classes in both these styles (and any others you may like the look of) and let her do the one she enjoys the most. At 5, enjoyment is very important.

[Dark Blade]

I don't think a form of wrestling is a good idea for one her age.

[Freeform]

Hi Blindfrog, I'd definately recommend Judo because it can be like a game for kids. Kids want to play and Judo generally has a good atmosphere for this.

Good luck

Colin

[Chlo]

I would reccomend just choosing the school with a good program for children and others her age and not worrying too much about the style. At the end of the day it is far more important that she trains somewhere with a good understanding that kids aren't adults and have different training needs and need to have fun- the best indicator will be other children enjoying what they are doing. I did judo as a child which was great fun- I loved it.

Be sure it's what she really wants abd don't worry about her being "chick-ish" she's a little gir and might stuggle socially if you try to change her too much. Just find something she enjoys- send her to TKD or karate and judo and see if she like punching and kicking or grappling if there's nowhere that does both i your area.

[BlindFrog]

What you recommend is the conclusion we came to as well. And I think my nephew be going with her if at all possible... which should help a lot.

I still have millions to learn about the subject, but at least I don't have to learn it all before she can start!

[Jim]

Let us know how you go and good luck.

So many people come for advice here but never let us know what happens and how things are progressing - please don't be one of 'those' people ;)

[BlindFrog]

Nah... I'll be one of those people who is bugging all the time for more advice. Don't forget-- this is totally new territory for her dad and me!

[Redhotdragon]

Wasn't it Wing Chun that was developed by a weak girl to fend off strong agressors...maybe she should try that?

[Terry Matthes]

Iwould say Judo or some form of wrestling, the nature of them is pretty appealing to kids. The school I go to teaches grappling to the younger kids and they seem to have a ball. They think they are just rolling around and having a good time (which they are), but they are also learning valuable skills.

[Shaolin Dragon]

The best thing you can do is take your child along to a few different classes and see which one she enjoys best, as this will be the one she puts the most effort into.

[RAD]

Originally posted by YODA
"Play As The Way" which encourages our kids to train in an environment filled with fun, discovery and laughter!

Seen this method first hand... My daughter loves her MMA... we went on holidays this summer and she wasn't home sick as much as she was "MMA Sick" and couldn't wait to get back and start training again. It has made her a real die hard!

[FullContactKid]

Why not let her get into a grappling art? The ground is a very dangerous place. who get attacked are most of the time weaker then their attackers I think though that if more women were versed in ground grappling skills they could up their chances of getting off the ground alive or without serious injury. Standing arts are fine I participate in them myself but if your daughters balance isnt so great then why not eqaulize her situation by making sure that if she is knocked down to the ground she can still have an advantage and still be able to protect herself. Martial Arts are fun bu in the end the main queston is: Can I defend myself properly with what I have learned? For smaller people grappling arts are the best thing going.NOT to say that someone who is small cant fight on their feet but when you fight a big man(or woman=)) they can hit very hard but when you take it to the ground the match wil always go to the technician

[stump]

At that age what specific MA she learns is of little importance...find a good teacher who you feel can keep her entertained and learning through play.

Get her involved in serious training too early and all she will develop is a negative impression of martial arts in general...find somewhere she can have fun!!!

[TigerAnsTKDLove]

i would say tae kwon do for a five year old then maybe kicking it up a notch with a different style when she gets older. or maybe karate would help cuz i took karate when i was 5 it was alot of fun then i moved to tae kwon do.

[BlindFrog]

We have stopped by a couple of places here in the city where I live, but they want her twice a week or nothing, which we can't do... but we're still looking. On one of the visits, one of the classes was just letting out. I was surprised to see the way their exit was so completely "orderly". They looked more like little 2-foot-tall robots to me. Is this normal?

[b33p]

I recommend you enrole your 5 year old girl in kungfu.
Kung fu is a martial art created by a woman to defeat foes bigger than her, kung fu concentrates on the weak points e.g eyes, testicles etc.
In my opinion i think she would enjoy kung-fu

[JohnnyX]

At that age, I think a 'popular' MA like Karate, Judo, TKD. (There are others as well).

By popular I mean having more choice of places to take her.

Nothing worse at that age, (or any other age come to think of it), than chosing a less popular MA then moving away from the area, or even the Club closing, and not being able to find another club doing the same MA.

Cheers. :)

[Tika]

I was surprised to see the way their exit was so completely "orderly". They looked more like little 2-foot-tall robots to me. Is this normal?

This is the case at a bunch of the MA places Ive seen that deal with very young children. Some places stress structure, discipline and respect with the children more than others. At that age you have a lot of kids that have little or no attention span or discipline, and by getting them into the "robot"-like mode helps teach them control. But dont be turned off by that, there is a lot of fun un-structured activities in the classes too. Just be sure to watch a few classes once you find a school that your interested in. Make sure they incorperate more then structure and discipline;). I was 8 years old when I started Martial Arts training, I loved the army like discipline that was asked of us. At this point in my life if I walk into a gym that is too layed back I turn around and walk right out. Remember also, you are not tied to one school. If she tries something out and doesnt like it, you can always go somewhere else! :) Good luck!

[nhb_ben]

I'm going to have to throw in another vote for Judo (or japanese/brazilian jiu-jitsu).

I help teach a program called "Throw Like a Girl." It's a Judo camp for girls aged 4-12. From what I've heard from parents is that our workouts tend to be a bit more productive than striking arts. This is primarily because we can let the kids at one another (with supervision) without having to worry about injuries. You can't really have 4-12 year olds striking one another. I've got endless stories about girls taking down and pinning (strangling for more advanced students) boys that outweigh them by 30+ lbs. That builds real self confidence.

Whatever, art you decide to enroll your girl in, I suggest you check out the adult classes. If you can look at the adults and say "Yep. Those guys are definitely death dealing machines," then you will definitely see their skill and work ethic filter through to the children's class. However, if you don't get that feeling (no matter how great they tell you they are), then I'd suggest looking elsewhere or perhaps see if there's a wrestling (don't laugh, wrestling is getting more and more popular for girls--there's even women's freestyle in the Olympics now) club she can join.

[Tika]

You can't really have 4-12 year olds striking one another.

Ok, I agree with you completely on the Judo part, even though I only did it for a few months, I think it might be best for this young lady. But I have to disagree with you on this point.

I can agree that you really cant have 4- 7 year olds striking, but 8-12 would have no problem. Maybe Im biassed because I started at age 8, but even looking back at video tapes of promotion tests Id have to say that it is quite feasable for a young person (even maybe as young as 6 or 7) to perform well in the striking arts. We went pretty much full contact, except no punch to the head, back, or groin. They can learn control just as the adults can. I wouldn't have two beginner kids sparing eachother. Would team a 6 year old white belt with an 8 year old green belt, and things work out wonderfully (with the right kids of course ). I have tought kids class and really didnt have any problems with the kids control when sparring.

However, it has to be the right kid, and the right teacher, otherwise it all means nothing.

[nhb_ben]

My basic argument against teaching kids to strike (effectively) is that striking is combat by attrition. You bludgeon your opponent until they cannot effectively attack you any longer. If you can train this at an earlier level, more power to you; however, I see it being difficult. Also, striking is much more sophisticated than grappling. Throwing a straight punch must be taught.

Grappling, on the other hand, involves controlling your opponent through strength or leverage. A person can effectively grapple without injuring their target at all. Additionally, grappling a natural response for children. You'll quite frequently see the osotogari and the koshi-guruma on playgrounds. (http://www.judoinfo.com/animate.htm)

[Tika]

nhb: like I said... I agree with ya that Judo would be best (actually wish it was an option for me when I was younger), was just trying to say that she shouldnt disregaurd striking arts.

[neryo_tkd]

I don't see any problems if this girl would like to start TKD. Since she is 5, she probably doesn't know what she really likes and dislikes but still she may find TKD very interesting. At the age of 5 kids are not taught the same way as adults or a bit older kids. That is why there are TKD play groups and if the instructor is qualified to do that job and if s/he does it well, then the kids have a looooot of fun. My instructor did the same with his son. So far he has been going to a TKD play group and this September his son will be old enough to start attending training sessions.

[Jjf88]

LOL ... what's so wrong with being "CHICK-ISH"???? :D ;)

My daughter started Tae Kwon do at age 5, but had taken ballet for 2 years prior. We chose ballet for her for the opposite reasons that you stated ... she was too BOY-ish).

I myself had taken ballet myself for 8 years as a child and maybe that is why deep down inside I chose TKD... my degree of flexibility, coordination, balance achieved from all those years made training in TKD rather effortless.

True, ballet it had given her some coordination, balance, graceful moves and a degree of flexibility ... but when she saw the kids at my TKD school during class, she wanted to try TKD instead.

She got her black belt at age 12 and I find that at least now at age 16 she can defend herself if need be ....

Look for a "Little Dragons" -type program that is geared more for the little kids ...


Holy ____ your daughter got her Black Belt at 12? O_o

Oh well, back on topic.

In my opinion, going to a class 2-3 times a month is a waste of money. Going 2 times a week is not.

I hope I don't get flamed, but erm, get her fit (I know she's 5). Do some running, some sit ups, etc. for now until she's a bit older.

I'd recommend Ballet for balance, then a martial art (like Muay Thai XD or something similar. Wing Chun. Seems to be an option since women can't fight men apparently..)

[Moi]

She'd be 9 maybe 10 now. Check the dates on the posts.

[Jjf88]

XD I fail. I admit it.

:bang:

[ember]

Kuk Sool is another traditional Korean Martial Art, it'll take 5-year-olds. I know there's at least one school in the Dallas area. Unfortunately, I don't know the instructors or the schools. You can find links here: http://www.kuksoolwon.com/Schools/schools01.html

As others have said, shop around and look for a place that works well for and with her.

[aikiwolfie]

Yeah good advice there MD.