Are you a ninja?

[Adam]

Question of definition: Is somebody who practices the martial art of ninjitsu considered a ninja or were the ninjas only the guys in black clothes throwing shurikens around in ancient Japan?

[Chimpcheng]

Badgers Adam, Badgers.

[ns_oni]

well, alot of people who do ninjutsu just do it as "another martial art", but i guess if you live the lifestyle, you can consider yourself one. you'll have to judge yourself. Remember, the aim of a ninja isnt to run around in black clothes throwing shuriken :D

[Andrew Green]

How about Penguins?

[Hakko-Ryu]

Penguins are brutal ninjas man...they'll headbutt u in the nuts!

[YODA]

Imagine a penguin, like, totally flipping out! Scary images!

[never]

okay...

Anyway, I don't think that just anyone who does ninjutsu would be called a ninja, as there is much more to a ninja than the martial art they learn/know. One of the ninja's main roles was information gathering and espionage, and I dought that most dojo's teach you that (although if they did...:yeleyes: ).

[ns_oni]

being a true ninpo practitioner means u also have to train hard in your own time. I dont think the people who arent serious about it or dont live the lifestyle should be considered one.:Angel:

[David]

The ninja club near me practices stealth and stuff. And they train at night :) And they train outside in different environments.

Should I be worried?

Rgds,
David

[stump]

Anyone who seriously considers themselves a ninja needs therapy.

Playing at living the lifestyle is not being the thing.

[ns_oni]

your obviously thinking of the stereotype..as masaki said, the true age of ninja might not yet have begun. dont judge people before you know them or what they have done.

[never]

The ninja club near me practices stealth and stuff. And they train at night And they train outside in different environments.

Should I be worried?


Yes.;)

Do they really train outside at night? Weird, but damn cool!

[stump]

Eh actually the age of the ninja is OVER (if there ever was such a thing)!! Gone, kaput, ended!!!!! Sorry to be the one to tell you.

I'm not judging anyone........have fun being a ninja

[Darzeka]

Hi i'm back.

Ninja - one who trains in harmony and balance.

Most of us are ninjas, you just don't know it

[ns_oni]

stump maybe you should find out the meaning and read what masaki said..from your profile i dont think you study ninpo

[stump]

Do all of us walk around in black suits scaling walls and assassinating Japanese dignataries?

No I didn;t think so.

Nazi means "national socialist" -hardly an apt description of the movement.

The name may mean balance and harmony...but that does not make everyone who "walks in balance and harmony" a ninja

[ns_oni]

most didnt walk around scaling walls, and the harmony and balance wasnt my opinion. i say one of the goals is to obtain fudoshin through the martial art. the character means endurance.

I respect your opinion but just dont go storming in like that:D

www.bujinkan.com
http://www.genbukan.org/Amatsu_Tatara_Martial_Art_and_/Letter/letter.html

[stump]

Fair enough....my point is I can call myself a gladiator...and as much as I try and justify it unless I find a time machine and go back to fight in the colluseum it doesn't make it so!!!

Changing the criteria for being a ninja and fulfilling these new criteria may technically make you one but at the end if the day it's not the same

[Andy Murray]

A Pilot flies aeroplanes.

Just because your idea of a pilot strafes Mecherschmitts from the skies of good old blighty, doesn't mean that people can't learn to fly for other reasons.

[ns_oni]

in the beginning it was just trying to atain some form of enlightenment. it wasnt always war time. :)

[stump]

Andy in your analogy a pilot would be akin to a "martial artist" and the "ninja" to a Mecherschmitts pilot.

If said Mecherschmitts pilot said "actually the purpose of a Mecherschmitts pilot is to fly people safely from A to B" would you not take them to task on this?

[Andy Murray]

*sigh*

[ns_oni]

^ winna:p

[stump]

Very sorry Andy,

I forgot the golden rule that once a moderator intervenes their opinion is final and irrefutable

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by stump
Very sorry Andy,

I forgot the golden rule that once a moderator intervenes their opinion is final and irrefutable

Was that sarcasm?
You can get nominated for things like that you know. :p

Read it again, and stop being childish. It's not an opinion, it's a way of looking at the topic, which, incidentally is in the Ninjutsu section of the forum.

[stump]

When did "sigh" add anything constructive to a Bulletin Board???

[Andy Murray]

I don't know.
When did you? :D

[David]

Originally posted by never
Do they really train outside at night? Weird, but damn cool!

Yes, they do! :eek:

[Hakko-Ryu]

i agree with stump on this. The martial WAYS of the ninja is pretty much dead (stalking around at night, assassinating people, making bombs, climbing walls) ...but their art of fighting/war is still kept alive through a small number of people. if anything the NEW way of ninjitsu is an adaptation of the old to provide the "harmony" in training that ns_oni was talking about. But from what i've read and heard, there are many "Fake" ninjitsu dojos (more than any other MA) in existance. People exploiting mysticism to make $$$. The 80's as you might know was the peak of that era. (Ashida Kim is an example of that)

[ns_oni]

i agree there are heaps of fake dojos, but thats why you have to keep looking until you find a good one. it may not be the same, but since its a survival art, it has to change to compromise with today. when guns were introduced they began to use them etc.

[hafer34]

Hello! I train in Ninjutsu and to be honest, if you train in ninjutsu and u want to consider yourself a ninja there is nothing wrong with it. Ninjutsu is basically "the art of the ninja" so I think that explains it for you. I do feel however even as a practicener of the old arts, that the ninja training for you should differ greatly from the ninja of long ago. Emphasise the most common weapons you would use on the street( dont walk around at nite with a shoge or pair of kamas,haha) also use equipment and throw in kickboxing and nontraditional basics. Thinking your a ninja is not wrong and may greater your spirit and training. Peace.

[questwarrior]

The ninja of old in the beginnings were one with spiritual enlightenment. or Void (uncousciense(subcouscience) thought brought into cousciense being.. Sui, chi, ka, fu, ku (hence mind body harmony under stress) inward emotions/mental states manifested on the outward pyscical body. and attunement with natural law.
As time went on the lack of time made for needing ninja agents sooner than enlightenment could produce and this created all the trickery vs the real magic of the original enlightened ninjas. Hence smoke bombs, etc. A real ninja needs no smoke bombs to be invisible. They just simply are. Less is more. empty is full.
>If you want to be called a ninja live a ninja life. It has nothing what so ever to do with hiding at night.
Night practice helps build awareness of sightless opponents and eventually to freedom of awareness of having to do nothing to create what is really supposed to be done. Freedom!!!!!

[ns_oni]

nice post and welcome to MAP

[ninja4u2hire]

I agree with hafer34 and questwarrior... but really if you want to know, ask the true source:

Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi
636 Noda, Noda-Shi,
Chiba-Ken, 278-8691
Japan

If you're not a serious practitioner of ninpo/ ninjutsu, your opinion doesn't matter anyway.
:)

[ns_oni]

so true :D

[imawimp]

I met a guy when I was in the army that claimed to be a ninja. We were room mates for a few days while in processing to our training companies at Ft Gordon.

I thought he was crazy, and tried hard to spend as little time with him as possible.

Last night in the barracks, before being assigned to our units, the MP's bring this guy into the barracks. In addition to his handcuffs he was wearing a complete ninja uniform. Including his samarui (ninja ?) sword.

It seems he had been practicing his stealth techniques by hiding in trees near the barracks and someone had reported him to the MPs.

They kept the sword. (Thank God) He was removed from the barracks and eventually was asked to leave the Army.

I guess the moral of the story is that you might think your a ninja, but most other folks probably think your crazy.

That sounds a little harsher then I meant it to, but the story is true so lets just say it was all meant in fun :)

[WorldChampTKD]

There's really Ninja clubs like that? Now that's cool, where would I find out about one of those!:yeleyes:

Originally posted by David
The ninja club near me practices stealth and stuff. And they train at night :) And they train outside in different environments.

Should I be worried?

Rgds,
David

[SilentNightfall]

Here's a minor question for you all. Why is it that a majority of people seem to believe that the purpose of the ninja of old was to "stalk around at night, assassinate people, make bombs, etc.?" Believe it or not, assassination was a rare thing for ninja. intelligence gathering, military advising, etc. were the usual, though most of ninja history involves trying to survive against outside forces who felt threatened by their very existence. So, to be a ninja, you don't need to practice stealth or assassinate people. You really just need to follow the philosophy. Quite simple really.

[hafer34]

Ninjutsu is the art of the ninja. You practice the ancient ninja arts, that makes you a ninja in training. There are no ninjas today as there were long ago. You should consider yourself a modern day ninja.

[Soete-tsuki]

The "Ninja" of feudal Japan didn't exactly walk around calling themselves Ninja...

[ns_oni]

no one said they did :)

[Ninjabucky]

Ninjas were farmers, being picked on by samurai, they made there minds up, became hill billies so to speak with attitude. Devised there own combat stlye, and if they got harrassed dealt with it. The mountain people led they're own simple life. does'nt sound to different from today does it

[Ninjabucky]

oh yeah Ninjas still exist, they evolved. SAS, SBS. need i say more, different times, different weapons, same attitude

[SilentNightfall]

I'd be careful with that statement Bucky. Just because groups may seem to have similar attributes to the popular image of the Ninja does not make them the modern day Ninja. There is a philosophy behind Ninpo and Ninjutsu that is specific only to those who learn the art and not to groups that specialize in covert ops and such. Just something to think about.

[Rikimaru33]

yeah....little over the edge there. Just cuz they're good at sneakin and such doesn't make them a "Ninja" so to speak. Even if its the Delta boys SAS whoever they don't take the time do do ninjutsu. They do something else, no big deal but it IS different, alot.

[ns_oni]

yeah bucky your abit off there :)

[Ninjabucky]

Not really, way off, extreme way of putting it, one we have ourselves who train in the art of ninjutsu, and live a happyish life, then the other were seriously trained men and women, go out get recon, or take out targets, neutraslize people. open eyes, open mind

[SilentNightfall]

Just remember that what makes a Ninja is not reconnaissance and assassination. Assassination was not even a common occurrence/practice by the Ninja.

[McSqueeb]

I dunno this all kindof seems like a pointess thing to me. I would have to say agree with the modern day Ninja thing because Ninjutsu practicioners don't do the special assignments that the olden day Ninja did... also why are we having a week long arguement on this?

[SilentNightfall]

Seems as though I'd better go digging into my literary resources and find you all some quotes as to what it is that makes a Ninja. Hatsumi-sensei will be my most likely candidate for such quotations. Be back in a day or so.

[SilentNightfall]

Couldn't help but go looking now, especially since I have just recently finished reading "Essence of Ninjutsu: The Nine Traditions" again. So here are as many quotes, though sometimes lengthy, as I could find in 10 minutes. Enjoy!

"A person, when being righteous and sincere, is in accordance with heavenly justice. When a person attains understanding of heavenly justice, he serves the will of god. This is why I referred to the "mind and eyes of god." Therefore, the ninja is a person aware of justice.

The above-mentioned principles are the foremost requirements of the ninja. Neither the power of invisibility nor superhuman actions are the first consideration. The ninja are not members of a circus. Nor are the ninja robbers, assassins, or betrayers. The ninja are none other than persons of perserverance or endurance. Togakure-ryu ninpo is the very evidence that ninja have lived and protected their happy lives over a thousand years." - Masaaki Hatsumi

"Ninja in the true sense of the word are artists who love the beauties of nature and the human spirit." - Masaaki Hatsumi

Well, that's about all I care to dig up/type out for now, but really... I think the above quotes say much more than should be needed to prove my point. Minasan, jaa.

[Brad Ellin]

Ninja = someone who practices ninjutsu. Someone who strives to live life with a pure heart. NOT an assassin or thug or someone who dresses up in a black gi and carries swords thru the neighborhood at 2 AM. Not someone who claims to walk thru walls or knows 247 ways to kill a person.
Do you practice ninjutsu? Do you find yourself standing in hicho no kamae while waiting in line? Do you find yourself subconsciously practicing "Mall no kamae"? (If you don't know what I am talking about, you may not be a real ninja. One day you will figure it out and the light will come on :) ). Do you practice and kind and loving heart? Does your ukemi show thru when you don't try, like slipping on ice or being pushed around in a crowded subway terminal?
I have a peice of calligraphy that Soke gave me about 12 years ago, that says pure of heart. Was he saying or implying that I have a pure heart? No, what he was saying to me is that I should strive, above all other things, to have and live with a pure heart. That is what seperates the ninja from the SAS, Special Forces, SEALS, GSG-9, Mossad, Delta Force guys. It's not just what we practice, but how we live our lives outside of the dojo.

[Brad Ellin]

And yes. I am a Ninja.

[ns_oni]

nice speach :)

[Kinjiro Tsukasa]

Beautiful post, Kurohana. The admins picked the right guy to moderate the Ninjutsu topics! And by your definition, I am also a Ninja, albeit a "beginning" one.

[Brad Ellin]

No Kinjiro, you are not a ninja. You are a kunoichi. Female ninja. Revel in it! Be proud! Why be a run of the mill ninja like me?

Oh, and thank you for the kind words.

[DarkDragonFly]

Kinjiro is kunoichi like me? No disrespect but i thought Kinjiro was a guy? hmmmmm sorry kinjiro:)

[Kinjiro Tsukasa]

No, Kurohana is right; I'm actually a kunoichi!

[Yama Tombo]

I don't see any use for practicing ninjitsu as far as the anti-political and anti-cultural stuff. For self-development should be a reason for ninjitsu

[ninja4u2hire]

How do you get "anti-anything" from ninjutsu? Ninjutsu isn't about being anti, it's about adapting to time and change.
:)

[Kagebushi]

well origionally ninjutsu WAS a counterculture to the ruling samurai class. also, about every ninjas enemy was Nobunaga Oda, but youre right it isnt about anti its about perseverence. even the kanji for nin means perseverence, but they were persevering against a corrupt political system that tried to deny them even the right to defend themselves so i guess you could say it WAS anti political in origin, but isnt anti political now

[ninja4u2hire]

you're right in both cases, I was replying to the present day practice of ninjutsu.

[ninja4u2hire]

history you can learn from a book, but not the art.

[Kar-jun]

stump- do you not believe there were ninja's then?

[Yama Tombo]

Where would a true ninja fit in today? The 'secrets' of the ninja have already been revealed to governments; they have their own 'ninjas' to do all the 'sneaking' around. Unless your aim is to be a self proclaimed 'ninja for hire.' Practicing to move stealthly is fun; great for scaring friends and when you play paintball! :)

[ninja4u2hire]

That's just it. A ninja doesn't have to fit in anywhere, your mailman could be a ninja. Would you know? As for the spooks or (government training sneaks), If they don't know ninpo, they're not ninja. But that's not to say that there aren't government ninja. Remember, a ninja isn't just someone who is training how to kill, and sneak around. There's so much more to it then that, and if you don't know what I mean, then you probably don't study ninjutsu/ ninpo.
...Oh as for the "ninja for hire" mine is for humor only.

[SilentNightfall]

As Ninja4u2hire said, Ninjutsu is not about being stealthy and the like. That is a stereotype. Ninjutsu does cover this, but it is a very small aspect of the art and is far from a main focus of most teachers. Ninja were not primarily assassins as we constantly try to make people understand, nor are we all about going around at night doing stealth missions. Ninjutsu/Ninpo is a way of life. We learn the combat methods of the Ninja, yes, but there is a real philosophy behind the art. If you've never studied true Ninjutsu then you have no idea what it is we are referring to, but the assumption that we train for stealth and killing is totally the exact opposite of what the training really is and is designed for. Comparing the U.S. Special Forces and such to the Ninja, both modern and ancient, is like comparing carrots to peas simply because they are both vegetables. We may both get stealth training, but beyond that, how else are they similar? Answer: They aren't.

[Brad Ellin]

As a reminder, the view of ninja as asassins came from theatre, movies and fictional books. Many cultures had a form of spy or asassin, Japan's ninja were unique. because of their political/religous views, they developed a system of combat and intelligence gathering and being in touch with reality, that they were often approached and hired to gather information, influence events and act as advisors. Their unique "world view" and knowledge of human psycology is what enabled them to be so successful. They reason the myths lasted so long are that the ninja did little to dispel them. Let your opponents think you can walk thru walls and vanish in smoke and it just makes your job that much easier. Forget what you have read about the ninja by peopel like Eric Van Lustbader (love his books, but they are FICTION), Ian Fleming and others. They are fiction and myth. Ninja are still seen as shrouded in smoke and mirrors. But, they're just like you and me. As a matter of fact, point made earlier, your mailman or butcher or florist could be one.

[Yama Tombo]

Oh the value of preceiving the world and oneself also. Forgot about those; seen a book called "The Art of Mind Control" or something closed to that title. I thought that was another esponiage book or book how to control people around you. I was wrong when I read a little into it; had the meditation methods and steps for self-evaluating the "ninja with in"(???)

I guess this is karma for me, I just got onto another member here for misunderstanding his/her post-reply to my comment.

I don't know too much about ninjitsu, but I know its not about the hollywood myths. Though I was being sarcastic mostly in my last post thats the reason for the ' being around the words.'

[stump]

<<<stump- do you not believe there were ninja's then?>>>

How you picked that up from my posts I'm not sure. In order for present people referring to themselves as ninja being an anachronism (the point I made) there would have to be ninja at some point in time.

Again if being a ninja floats your boat - have lots of fun

[ns_oni]

stump's back to where he started :p

[ninja4u2hire]

Sounds like most of the people responding understand what the true meaning of being ninja, and studying ninjutsu/ ninpo is all about. And for those just beginning ninjutsu, I was where you are, and you will be where I am, if you stick with it. I know when you begin, things don't always make since, and the truth about ninja seems scewed, but with time the true answers will be obvious.

I do understand sarcasm.... but it's sometimes hard to pick up in words alone.
Peace :)

[RubyMoon]

I've learned a lot about what ninjutsu is really about reading this thread. It sounds like a marvelous art, thank you all for sharing your insights. I hope someday I have the opportunity to study more of the art on a personal level.

[SilentNightfall]

Well Heather, there are plenty of talented teachers strewn about Florida if ever you wish to learn the art first-hand. www.winjutsu.com has a section titled "Yellow Pages" that gives instrctors from every state in the U.S. as well as several countries worldwide. Take a look and see what you think.

[Ice Queen]

Originally posted by Yama Tombo
Where would a true ninja fit in today? The 'secrets' of the ninja have already been revealed to governments; they have their own 'ninjas' to do all the 'sneaking' around.

Yeah they're called the Navy Seals.
Heather there is so much history on ninjutsu, and it's exstentions, it's not smart to ask people online. It's one of those things where people will only give you the info they think they know. And most of what they think they know is based on movies, and what they were told. Ninjutsu, was used just as much as for defense as it was to get info, and other breathen. But it is a great form.

[SilentNightfall]

::Sigh:: As mentioned before, Ninja cannot be compared to the Navy Seals, Special Forces, or any other modern-day military force. Please, please stop this assumption. Just because the Seals or Special Forces are skilled in infiltration and such does not make them similar in any sense to Ninja. Simply read many of the above posts for clarification as I do not wish to keep repeating what myself and others have written countless times on this forum. Arigato.

[Ice Queen]

My fellow bujinkan friend, i was joking. My sister's man is in the NS, it's just a joke. You may now move on. I practice way too much to not know better.

[SilentNightfall]

Alright. Now that you edited your post as well as stating your intentions of making a joke I think I can breathe a sigh of relief. If you read most of the threads at the top of the forum, you will see just how many uninformed people we've all been dealing with lately. My apologies for missing the joke. Humor doesn't always translate well online, obviously. Well, welcome to MAP, Ice Queen. Glad to know ya. Take care for now. Jaa!

[RubyMoon]

Originally posted by SilentNightfall
Well Heather, there are plenty of talented teachers strewn about Florida if ever you wish to learn the art first-hand. Thanks for the advice, and the link. It will probably a few years, at least, before I'm ready to pursue any additional arts in earnest. My current style of My Jhong Law Horn is quite enough to keep me busy for a very long while. I would love to learn more about ninjutsu, however. If you hear of any seminars or demonstrations in my area, I'd like to attend one sometime. :)

[Valiant84]

at the end of the day, what does it matter if you can be called a ninja or not. As long as you do it and enjoy it it shouldnt really matter. In todays world it would be impossible to live the lifestyle as it doesnt require the skills they had and used to survive. But if you just do the martial side of it you are missing out quite a bit of the essence of the ninja as ninjutsu also teaches you military strategies, survival, escape and evasion etc. As far as the club training at night is concerned, i say fair play, as at least they are trying to incorporate as much of the art in their lessons as possible by teaching more than just the martial side of the art.

[Ice Queen]

Silent, my edit was cuz I spelled something wrong...LOL! But you do have to admit that it's the oldest ninja joke there is. Besides, though there are similiar trades, anyone (even those uninformed) should see the MAJOR differences.

[FullContactKid]

Ninjas are awesome.....thats all I can say..........

[ns_oni]

noo! not another real ultimate power fan :p :D

[oneninja]

do we really know what a ninja is? there is history,but who is to say what a ninja really is.i do not think that the life style of the original ninja exsits.we train in a style that has been revamped and evolutionized,as lt should be considering times have changed since the beginning of ninjitsu.any good martial art must change or it will die.i have seen many differences in different training halls,i think that the spirit of ninjitsu is in our hearts,so in closing i would have to say if the warrior is inside it really does not matter what the title.

[blade_cs]

Question of definition: Is somebody who practices the martial art of ninjitsu considered a ninja or were the ninjas only the guys in black clothes throwing shurikens around in ancient Japan?

If you
1) Are a mammal
2) Fight ALL the time
3) Flip out and kill people

Then you are definately a Ninja! :D

[LeadLegger]

::Sigh:: As mentioned before, Ninja cannot be compared to the Navy Seals, Special Forces, or any other modern-day military force. Please, please stop this assumption. Just because the Seals or Special Forces are skilled in infiltration and such does not make them similar in any sense to Ninja. Simply read many of the above posts for clarification as I do not wish to keep repeating what myself and others have written countless times on this forum. Arigato.
Navy SEALs seem like the modern day ninjas to me! They have pretty much the same job description

[SilentNightfall]

Well, if you would like to post your belief as to what the job description of the Ninja was, I would be happy to tell you if it is historically accurate or not. This is not to say that the Ninja were not skilled in intelligence gathering and infiltration, but this was just one aspect of a vast number of skills that the Ninja used in their countless roles over time. SEALs do not have their own art of combat, nor a philosophy to guide them in their daily lives. SEALs, Special Forces, etc. are agents of the government used for missions that require their specific talents. Being a SEAL does not involve trying to better oneself and to achieve a pure heart. Just because Ninja and certain armed forces members share similar talents does not make those armed forces the modern-day Ninja. It's like equating yourself to someone from the past because you both had the skill of driving a car. In other words, the two groups are totally unrelated except for possessing one similar talent. Nothing else connects the two. Hope this helps.

[LeadLegger]

SEALs don't have their OWN art of combat, but they take other arts and make their own combat system. And their philosophies are what keep them going. Their training is rigorous, but it's 90% mental. They say that a lot can be done, as long as you don't accept your limitations and pain. Being a SEAL does involve trying to better oneself. That's why a lot of people join, they want to prove that they CAN be better than the rest. Like ninjas, they are always outnumbered and use their smarts and stealth to complete a mission. I don't see how the SEAL and the ninja are unrelated.

[SilentNightfall]

But you're assuming that Ninja were always on missions and such, which is wrong. Ninja were not all about stealth, infiltration, etc. The Ninja killed only if they absolutely had to in order to survive. SEALs, Special Forces, etc. will kill if they are instructed to do so. Ninja were land-owning people for a great deal of history who served as military advisors and leant their services to various daimyo/shogun. SEALs and the like are the soldiers of a government. Ninja would sometimes serve as a military force in various wars throughout Japan's history, but this is one of many functions they served. And while SEALs and other Special Forces may have philosophies, it is not necessarily uniform and widespread. Aside from that, the philosophies are different. As far as bettering oneself, I did not mean along the lines of physically, while trying to be better than others. I was referring to trying to better oneself to live a more fulfilling life, being in harmony with all that surrounds you, etc. As for combat, SEALs and such may make an art their own, but they do not practice Ninjutsu so cannot be the modern-day Ninja essentially. Ninja trained to survive any situation that may arise. SEALs and such train to survive the situations they are volunteering to get themselves into, not the ones that might happen unexpectedly. It's a different motivation. Understand, I respect all of our nation's armed forces; however, I disagree with calling them the modern-day Ninja, that's all.