my squats have stalled around 60kg

[tankboy]

Hi,

I have been working on the tom kurtz program to develop flexibility for capoeira. all is going well - both my hamstring and box flexibility is getting better steadily. I have been making gains in sumo deadlift and straight-leg deadlift, but my squat has been stuck on 60kg or so for a while now. I was gaining in squat, and got up to around 80kg, but i took the summer off weights and since starting back I havent really made any gains in squat.

Here is my workout routine:

Mon- weights
cycle 20mins to gym (fairly fast pace)
squat 3 sets x 8-12 reps
straight-leg deadlift 3 sets x 8-12 reps
hamstring isometrics x 3sets
box isometrics x3sets
abs hang-leg crunch 2 sets x 8-12 reps, twist crunch 2 sets x 8-12reps
passive stretch to finish
then cycle home (fairly gently)

tues - capoeira

wed- weights
same as above, except sumo deadlift instead of squats

fri - capoeira
sat - capoeira (sometimes), or surfing
sun - rest, or surfing!

I drink protein shakes after each workout and for the following 48hours. I am making gains in all exercises except squat, which has stalled for a while now.

If anyone has any advice I will be very grateful. Thanks in advance

tankboy

[TheMachine]

You might wanna try following a progression for your strength training

[tankboy]

How do you mean? I build up to this steadily, and am not sure how to continue building it up - more sets? It seems like i am probably doing enough sets. What other good ways are there for changing my routine whilst still working on what i want to (strength)?

thanks for any further advice

[Grifter]

I think what the machine is suggesting is that you keep a record of what your lifting.

Something like

Exercise | Sets | Reps | Weight
___________________________________
Squats | 3 | 12,10,8 | 50kg, 55, 60


and then the next week,or next time you did that exercise. Make sure you increase the weight. Even if its not by much. Maybe that not what Machine meant, but regardles i still suggest it :D

Also you might want to try doing different exercise that work the same muscle. For example doing leg presses instead of squats. For a list of great exercise check out this site

http://www.exrx.net/Lists/Directory.html


Hope this helps

[RunningDog]

You should probably change your username, a 60kg squat doesn't really justify "tankboy" does it?

[g-bells]

change up the rep scheme to stimulate new growth

[tankboy]

i'm a boy in a tank, what better name could there be? :D

thanks for the suggestions, I shall try changing up the exercises, I've been doing the same for ages now. thats a great link, thanks grifter.

[TheMachine]

How do you mean? I build up to this steadily, and am not sure how to continue building it up - more sets? It seems like i am probably doing enough sets. What other good ways are there for changing my routine whilst still working on what i want to (strength)?

thanks for any further advice

do a google search on Bill Starr 5x5 to give you an idea

[Dyno]

Drop the hypertrophy program and go for a strength program (6 reps and below).

[Gary]

To overcome a plateau you need to change your routine to combat your body's adaption to it.

As already mentioned you can change your rep scheme, you can also change the rest periods, or try different variations on the exercise. In this case you could choose from a large selection of squat alternatives, such as front squats, hack squats, sissy squats, zercher squats, split squats or my personal favourite, the overhead squat. Some of these can be further varied, with unilateral work or dumbells instead of a barbell.

Supplementary exercises can also be used if you can target where the weak point in your squat is, for example if it's your lower back then adding good mornings to your routine could help.

The depth to which you squat can have an effect. If you are only squatting to parallel then try decreasing the load and going ATG. This is generally a better movement anyway, as a larger range of movement is used and removes any question of whether you are squatting to parallel or not.

Personally I like to throw in some high rep squat work occasionally, followed by a week of rest, something like 2x30 or 3x30, just as a shock to the system and a break in routine. I would not recommend this as a regular exercise though.

You could also try a pre workout drink too, the protein and carbs may help give you more energy for your workout.

edit: I'm assuming you're using a barbell and not a smith machine for these?

[tankboy]

thanks for the replies, I think I basically need to vary my workout, been doing the same for a while, I've followed some of the links suggested above and that has told me that my body has probably gotten used to what I am doing so i need to change what I am doing to make my body adapt further.

One question: does doing different varieties of squat make a difference? It seems like its all basically the same movement. But I guess I need to try some varieties, that'll tell me if they are different or not. :D

Thanks again for the advice, I was getting a bit frustrated but now I am getting some enthusiasm again. Much appreciated.

[Grifter]

Yes, the different style of squats will make a difference. The different styles put emphasis on different heads of the same muscle. They also work the stabilizer muscle differently.

[g-bells]

Yes, the different style of squats will make a difference. The different styles put emphasis on different heads of the same muscle. They also work the stabilizer muscle differently.

yes

closer the feet=outer thigh
wide the feet=butt and inner thigh

[Fishbone.]

Hi Tankboy.

From my point of view it looks as though your reps are too small, and your not varying your excercises enough.

Protein shakes are good, But you can't live on just supplements. Make sure your diet is well balanced and healthy, There are many meal plans online you can snatch up and try out. If your not already, Take a multivitamin, Everything helps.

Make sure you get at LEAST 10 reps of your max weight squat... Anything under that isn't worth it. There's also the 20 rep squat plan.. Which is a fast way to train up and gain muscle.

What about the other parts of the body? No bench or incline? Cable crunches? Hyper extentions? Leg press? Leg extentions? None of that has been listed here, The plan seems to be pretty basic from my views.

You could also extend your lifting days to 3 times a week, Providing slightly better results than just the two.

Cheers

Matt--

[narcsarge]

So far I think everyone has given some sort of good advice. Unless my gains continue, I never stick with a routine for more then 4 months. I usually try to vary the type, order, and rest periods each time I do my routines. Keeping your muscles 'guessing' helps to prevent plateaus and provides for a well rounded routine. Taking a break from your routine every once in a while is good thing to. Never under estimate how beneficial breaks are!

Increasing your weights and lowering your reps (strength or Power Lifting training) is always a good way to blast a plateau! Given you only hit the weights 2 times a week, I would try the lower rep routine for a month then see what your Squats look like. Keep your form sharp though. Never sacrifice proper form.

[tankboy]

more great advice, thanks :)

some conflicting advice tho, fishbone says at least 10 reps, while narcsarge says low reps. I'm gonna try a bit of both - did leg press instead of squat today, gonna do that for a 2-3 weeks, try to get down to 6 reps, see how it goes. After that maybe try normal squat again, or look at some variations on the squat.

The reason I only do weights twice a week is coz i go to capoeira, any more would seem like overtraining. I eat pretty well tho, shakes are just for extra.

thanks again for all the advice.

[TheMachine]

id leg press instead of squat today, gonna do that for a 2-3 weeks, try to get down to 6 reps, see how it goes. After that maybe try normal squat again, or look at some variations on the squat.

very bad idea.

Good mrnings would be a better replcement exercise.

[Grifter]

good mornings and leg press focus on different muscles. Good mornings put focus on the hamstring where as leg press/squats work the whole thigh, but the quadriceps really do most of the work.

As far as the sets/reps go. i recommend that you dont do like 3 sets of 10 reps. try doing 3 sets with the reps going 10, 8, 6 and increase the weight each time. something like that.

[cxw]

You might wanna try following a progression for your strength training

I agree.

Try something like Bill Starrs 5*5, HST, a program from deepsquatter.com or something like that. The program needs to start lighter than you can lift, and then progress from there. Please note it's fine to have lighter days in there too.

When the plateau sets in, there's no point keeping on lifting away hoping that you'll just to start to get stronger again.

[TheMachine]

good mornings and leg press focus on different muscles. Good mornings put focus on the hamstring where as leg press/squats work the whole thigh, but the quadriceps really do most of the work.

yup... but based on personal experienc from training or ssisting in training, I've seen a lot of people do GMs in lace of squats and when they started squatting, their squats have really jumped up

[TheMachine]

I agree.

Try something like Bill Starrs 5*5, HST, a program from deepsquatter.com or something like that. The program needs to start lighter than you can lift, and then progress from there. Please note it's fine to have lighter days in there too.

When the plateau sets in, there's no point keeping on lifting away hoping that you'll just to start to get stronger again.

YUp!!

and from there, one can de-load by doing something like EDT or GVT.

There ar some individuals who have made so much progress with a volume routine as compared to a strength progression since they are predominantly slow twitch

[blessed_samurai]

yup... but based on personal experienc from training or ssisting in training, I've seen a lot of people do GMs in lace of squats and when they started squatting, their squats have really jumped up

I think some of us have realized that you can train muscle groups rather than strictly the movement and there is carry over. I think Westside demonstrates this beautifully by alternating squat, GM, and deadlift.

And since you brought up personal experience...I've related that as I spend more time bring my front squat up, my back squat and zercher squat go up. And on another personal experience note...I'm a person that needs to deadlift frequently or my deadlift does not go up.

[Incredible Bulk]

i raised my squat by focusing on my lower back and hips for a long while... people underestimate how good mornings and deadlifts can improve things.


also the 20 rep squats will help raise your squats out of a rut.

[TheMachine]

I think some of us have realized that you can train muscle groups rather than strictly the movement and there is carry over. I think Westside demonstrates this beautifully by alternating squat, GM, and deadlift.

And since you brought up personal experience...I've related that as I spend more time bring my front squat up, my back squat and zercher squat go up. And on another personal experience note...I'm a person that needs to deadlift frequently or my deadlift does not go up.

it does vary from person to person...

Some people can get their deadlifts up by focusing on power cleans and high pulls while others need to deadlift, even if its once in 10 days to make it go up

[blessed_samurai]

it does vary from person to person...

Some people can get their deadlifts up by focusing on power cleans and high pulls while others need to deadlift, even if its once in 10 days to make it go up

Yeah, Cressey was talking about that a bit back. He's also one that needs to deadlift frequently to keep his deadlift up. Back when I was not in the gym but worked out in the backyard I didn't have enough weight to work a heavy deadlift. I did have enough weight to work heavy cleans though and high pulls. So, I cleaned and high pulled a lot. I deadlifted once every 3-4 weeks and my deadlift got weeker compared to deadlifting once a week.

[Gary]

Good Mornings aren't always good for improving your squat, personally I have a strong good morning compared to my other lifts. When my form goes on back squats it always turns into a good morning movement, legs straight followed by the good morning. If i wanted to train another movement to improve my squats I would be looking at something that doesn't use the lower back so much. This is why I said that supplementary exercises need to be based on your personal weaknesses.

[TheMachine]

Good Mornings aren't always good for improving your squat, personally I have a strong good morning compared to my other lifts. When my form goes on back squats it always turns into a good morning movement, legs straight followed by the good morning. If i wanted to train another movement to improve my squats I would be looking at something that doesn't use the lower back so much. This is why I said that supplementary exercises need to be based on your personal weaknesses.

There could also be some other factors to consider

1. You don't bend at the waist and use too much lower back rather than using your hips
2. You have a different sticking point so your quads could be your weak link

[tankboy]

blimey, lots of food for thought there! I'm doing leg press then straight-leg deadlifts, so I should be working hamstrings and back as well as quads. Taken the firm decision to change my routine once a month, coz otherwise i tend to get in a rut, so we'll see how this goes - I'll do squats again next month and see if anything has changed.

I see what you mean about a progression, 10, 8,6, actually what i usually do is build that into my warm up, so yesterday I did

leg press:

52kg x20 reps (warm-up)
102 x 12 reps
132x 7reps
132 x6 reps
(I tried to do 142, the next weight up, on this last set, but couldnt shift it at all :o )

my straight leg deadlift keeps going up tho, yesteday i did 60kg for 6 reps, thats as much as i am squating at the moment, is this odd? I would have thought squats would be heavier. but then squats have got stuck.

thanks again for all the posts!

[TheMachine]

Honestly, you're wasting your time with the leg press. it can neve come close to squats

[Fishbone.]

Its the same thing.. If the reps are same.

I always use the leg extension machine and the leg press. Sometimes I do the curls, but I hate those lol

[tankboy]

I know squats are the superior exercise, but leg press will give me a bit of variety. Regularly changing your routine seems (from what i have read) to be at least as important as doing compound lifts. I will go back to squats in a few weeks. If nothing has changed I will change up the reps or something ( i will have to think about it when the time comes)

:Angel:

[TheMachine]

I know squats are the superior exercise, but leg press will give me a bit of variety. Regularly changing your routine seems (from what i have read) to be at least as important as doing compound lifts. I will go back to squats in a few weeks. If nothing has changed I will change up the reps or something ( i will have to think about it when the time comes)

:Angel:

Its your decision but believe me the leg press is one of the worst exercises and where did you read that changing your routine regularly to be important?

You need consistency in order to make progress...

And changing the reps will not really do anything for you...

Trust me on this, i've ben down that road before be it training myself or training people..

The solution to your answer is by doing squats on a progression

[Gary]

There could also be some other factors to consider

1. You don't bend at the waist and use too much lower back rather than using your hips
2. You have a different sticking point so your quads could be your weak link
My quads are my weak point in my squat, which is why I was pointing out that good mornings aren't a squatting cure-all for everyone, since improving my lower back further may help my squats, but wouldn't help target my weak point.

I know squats are the superior exercise, but leg press will give me a bit of variety. Regularly changing your routine seems (from what i have read) to be at least as important as doing compound lifts. I will go back to squats in a few weeks. If nothing has changed I will change up the reps or something ( i will have to think about it when the time comes)
I think the only thing you get from a leg press that you don't from a squat variation of some sort is the ego boost at the increased weight you can shift.

[cxw]

Listen to TheMachine.

The whole idea about needing to change routines regularly is not really true. This is the sort of BS that comes from places like Flex magazine to hide the steroids involved.

You need a routine with built in progression. Maxing out all the time is very tough on the joints and CNS, your body will plateau quickly with this.

I've personally wasted too much time and effort doing my own made up workouts, with pretty poor results.

Take a predesigned routine which lots of people have had success with (e.g Bill Starr 5*5, HST etc) and follow it.

[TheMachine]

My quads are my weak point in my squat, which is why I was pointing out that good mornings aren't a squatting cure-all for everyone, since improving my lower back further may help my squats, but wouldn't help target my weak point.

How do you know your quads are the weakpoint?

[Gary]

How do you know your quads are the weakpoint?
By cross referencing with other lifts, such as the good morning funny enough. I'm not saying it's the only weak point, but it's probably the biggest.

[tankboy]

Hmmmmmm......

somewhere, but i forget where, I read that changing your routine is good because your body adapts to the one you're on and stops making progress. Tho my other exercises have been making progress without much changing of the routine.

TheMachine, can you give me a little more detail on what you mean by a routine with built-in progression?

in the meantime I'm off to gooooooogle Bill Star 5*5

laters

edit: hmmm again, found some stuff by goooogling but not really a description of how to run it for a beginner/intermediate like myself (not really a beginner, been training for nearly a year, but not really an intermediate because I havent gained all that much. ) Can you describe a rough program for me, or link to a good description of one? thanks

[TheMachine]

Hmmmmmm......

somewhere, but i forget where, I read that changing your routine is good because your body adapts to the one you're on and stops making progress. Tho my other exercises have been making progress without much changing of the routine.

TheMachine, can you give me a little more detail on what you mean by a routine with built-in progression?

in the meantime I'm off to gooooooogle Bill Star 5*5

laters

edit: hmmm again, found some stuff by goooogling but not really a description of how to run it for a beginner/intermediate like myself (not really a beginner, been training for nearly a year, but not really an intermediate because I havent gained all that much. ) Can you describe a rough program for me, or link to a good description of one? thanks


The 5x5 is already a good start. There are other progressions out there but this is already very easy to do

[tankboy]

I can't find a good description of it. Do you have a link you can point me to, or can you describe it to me? thanks :Angel:

[TheMachine]

I can't find a good description of it. Do you have a link you can point me to, or can you describe it to me? thanks :Angel:

http://www.eclipsegym.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=57

[tankboy]

thanks, thats a fantastic description! I’m gonna print it out, and start figuring out how to run my workout based on it. thanks again! :)

One more question tho: how is it best to run this in conjunction with my capoeira training, do you think? I train capoeira 2-3 days a week. Is it okay to count capoeira days as "rest days" from weights?

[TheMachine]

thanks, thats a fantastic description! I’m gonna print it out, and start figuring out how to run my workout based on it. thanks again! :)

One more question tho: how is it best to run this in conjunction with my capoeira training, do you think? I train capoeira 2-3 days a week. Is it okay to count capoeira days as "rest days" from weights?


Do it on your non capoeira days.. Just ensure as well that you also have at least one day in which you don't do any capoeira or lifting

[tankboy]

great, that should be fairly straightforward. thanks again for the info!

[Grifter]

So i started reading the link on the 5x5 program with the intentions of reading it in parts since its pretty long and its already a late night...but i got distracted by it and ended up reading almost the entire thing lol

Well I read the everything through the 5x5 programs and stopped on the what to do after you finish the program. I have to say that there claims sound too good to be true. But I have no program going on right now so I figure Ill give it a shot, nothing to lose right.

I do have a question though. Who here has actually done a 5x5 program?? To whoever has done one or is in the middle of doing one of these program, How are/were the results?? As good as they claim??

[TheMachine]

I do have a question though. Who here has actually done a 5x5 program?? To whoever has done one or is in the middle of doing one of these program, How are/were the results?? As good as they claim??

A little anecdote...

When I joined that gym and got my 5rm, I was put right away on the progression since Head Coach said my numbers are already decent for my size and I won't be able to maximize a 5x5...

However, for power cleans, i started out with a 5x5 and my initial top 5 was 135.. at the end of the 5x5, my power cleans went up to 150 5x5 and i ended up with a new top 5 of 160.. and this was a 6 week span.

[g-bells]

A little anecdote...

When I joined that gym and got my 5rm, I was put right away on the progression since Head Coach said my numbers are already decent for my size and I won't be able to maximize a 5x5...

However, for power cleans, i started out with a 5x5 and my initial top 5 was 135.. at the end of the 5x5, my power cleans went up to 150 5x5 and i ended up with a new top 5 of 160.. and this was a 6 week span.

get your form down and then watch your power cleans weights sky rocket

[TheMachine]

get your form down and then watch your power cleans weights sky rocket

my form isn't exactly textbook but its improving...

hopefully by my next progression 225 lbs will be easy since my last 1rm was 180

[Grifter]

How about your size/weight?? seems like you had decent gains in strength. Were did you gain a decent amount of size as well??

[TheMachine]

How about your size/weight?? seems like you had decent gains in strength. Were did you gain a decent amount of size as well??

Not much on the scale but my body composition improved. Consider as well that i'm already an intermediate/advanced lifter

[tankboy]

Hi,

This week I've started the 5x5 program as described on the eclipse site. I've learned a few things already, though I have a couple of questions:


1) I have learned that taking a longer rest between sets. Timing myself on my stopwatch, I realised that up til now I have been taking a break of only 30seconds to a minute before starting the next set, when I was doing sets of 6-10 reps.

This left me really exhausted after 3 or 4 exercises, so much so that I wondered how people can manage to do their whole body in one workout. Taking longer breaks really helps!

However, 5 mins is pretty long. Should I be taking five minutes between all of my sets on all exercises? Or only on the heavy lower-body exercises (squat, deadlift, rows)? Or only on the last (fifth) set? Or both - take five minutes before the last set of the lower-body exercises?


2)Also I was always training to failure, trying hard to squeeze out one more rep, because that was what I thought you had to do to make gains - but it seems like this might be wrong too (I learned this from bodybuilding mags in my teens). I should stop at five even if I think I can do another rep, yeah?


3) Following some of the links in other threads, I learned that I have been doing squats wrong - I was only going down to parallel, and I was mostly bending at the knee, rather than bending at the waist as well. Here's a question tho - I have had some back problems in the past, and one thing I thought you were supposed to do was to keep your back as upright as possible when lifting something heavy (as well as keeping your spine straight, of course).
But looking at some vids of squat technique, it seems like you should stick your butt out and bend at the waist (while still keeping your back dead straight of course) before 'sitting' into the squat or deadlift by bending your knees. When you do it this way, your knees should not go much forward of your toes, if at all. Is this right? It seems like this would be putting more strain on your lower back, since as you stick your butt out your torso of course moves into a greater angle relative to vertical. But I have tried this a couple of times and if anything it seemed easier on my back. Is this right? Should I be sticking my butt out and keeping my knees more or less above my toes?

Thanks for any advice. I have been learning a lot, so hopefully all this learning will translate into strength gains.

tankboy

[Grifter]

1) I dont really know, but 5 minutes does seem like a long time to rest in between sets.

2)If you read that link, that i think Machine posted, about the 5x5 and are trying to stick to the 5x5 program Id have to say stop at 5 reps. But im not the expert on this so...

3)As for the squats, only going parallel wasnt your problem. There are different style of squats; front, parallel, low-bar, hack, ect... where you were going wrong is trying to keep you back upright. You dont need to keep your back upright, just your spine straight. The way you described the squat in the second paragraph is correct. Back straight, bent at the waist, your knee dont ever pass your toes. Letting your knees pass your toes puts a large and unnecessary load on your hips.

If you go to a gym you should ask someone to help you with your form. Even if you dont you should find someone to help you. Its sounds like you got the right idea now with the squats but without seeing you do them its impossible to know. Also since you have been doing squats wrong it may be safe to assume that you may have bad form with other lifts. So i highly recommend you have somebody help you out with your form so that you dont end up doing more damage than good in the long run.

[tankboy]

Thanks grifter, thats good advice. I think I have it down better now, and I've realised I was probably making a similar mistake with deadlifts, but I will find someone who knows more than i do and get them to look at my form.

[TheMachine]

1) I have learned that taking a longer rest between sets. Timing myself on my stopwatch, I realised that up til now I have been taking a break of only 30seconds to a minute before starting the next set, when I was doing sets of 6-10 reps.

This left me really exhausted after 3 or 4 exercises, so much so that I wondered how people can manage to do their whole body in one workout. Taking longer breaks really helps!

However, 5 mins is pretty long. Should I be taking five minutes between all of my sets on all exercises? Or only on the heavy lower-body exercises (squat, deadlift, rows)? Or only on the last (fifth) set? Or both - take five minutes before the last set of the lower-body exercises?

Rest 5 minutes. You are focusing on building your foundational strength so take your time in ensuring you are fully recovered. More often than not, guys who fail in the 5x5 fail because they aren't resting and eating enough

2)Also I was always training to failure, trying hard to squeeze out one more rep, because that was what I thought you had to do to make gains - but it seems like this might be wrong too (I learned this from bodybuilding mags in my teens). I should stop at five even if I think I can do another rep, yeah?

Ys... stick to the set/rep scheme... Never train t failuer... you'll burn out faster that way and halt your progress

3) Following some of the links in other threads, I learned that I have been doing squats wrong - I was only going down to parallel, and I was mostly bending at the knee, rather than bending at the waist as well. Here's a question tho - I have had some back problems in the past, and one thing I thought you were supposed to do was to keep your back as upright as possible when lifting something heavy (as well as keeping your spine straight, of course).
But looking at some vids of squat technique, it seems like you should stick your butt out and bend at the waist (while still keeping your back dead straight of course) before 'sitting' into the squat or deadlift by bending your knees. When you do it this way, your knees should not go much forward of your toes, if at all. Is this right? It seems like this would be putting more strain on your lower back, since as you stick your butt out your torso of course moves into a greater angle relative to vertical. But I have tried this a couple of times and if anything it seemed easier on my back. Is this right? Should I be sticking my butt out and keeping my knees more or less above my toes?
If you are doing low bar squats, yes yuo shoul stick your butt out and bend at the waist. This is actually safer and better for both you knees and lower back... You should lean slightly forward but not excessively... As long as you are bending at the waist, you won't put any unnecessary strain on the knees as well

[tankboy]

Thanks Machine,

recently I have been plagued by some mild but annoying aches and pains, a little like the onset of flu, in my leg and back muscles. i think this might be because i have been training to failure.I stay very focussed in the gym, and was really squeezing out the last reps like my life depended on it. That, and the 30 seconds rest between sets of 6-10, might account for the crappy feeling in my muscles. I seem to be feeling a little better this week since starting the 5x5 and not training to failure.

This got me thinking. Previously I had thought you had to train to failure to make gains, but since starting the 5x5 I thought: if I spend a day moving house (or some other heavy activity) I will be sore the next day, despite having at no point used my muscles to failure. This is perhaps more similar to what the 5x5 accomplishes. So maybe it isnt necessary to train to failure to work my muscles, and thus to make gains.

And the soreness in my muscles suggests it may actually be counterproductive to train to failure.

I'm learning a lot about training from this forum, so thanks again for the advice.

[Socrastein]

Not much on the scale but my body composition improved. Consider as well that i'm already an intermediate/advanced lifter

Unless you only weigh 100 lbs I don't see how you could consider yourself a borderline advanced lifter, or even an intermediate one, with a 180lb max clean.

[koto_ryu]

I know squats are the superior exercise, but leg press will give me a bit of variety. Regularly changing your routine seems (from what i have read) to be at least as important as doing compound lifts. I will go back to squats in a few weeks. If nothing has changed I will change up the reps or something ( i will have to think about it when the time comes)

:Angel:

Just to add in my $0.02.....

When I was going through rehab due to a car accident, I couldn't squat so instead I did lots of leg presses. I eventually worked up to poundages 3x over what I was originally squatting with. When I went back to squats, my squats were actually lower than what I had been doing before initially, and this was only for a few months.

Go with GMs, ignore the leg press.

[koto_ryu]

By cross referencing with other lifts, such as the good morning funny enough. I'm not saying it's the only weak point, but it's probably the biggest.

Time for some front squats then ;)

[koto_ryu]

Unless you only weigh 100 lbs I don't see how you could consider yourself a borderline advanced lifter, or even an intermediate one, with a 180lb max clean.

Or unless he's still learning the lift.

[tankboy]

thanks for the tip about leg press, thats great information, squats it is.

And another question:

I had an MRI yesterday for back pain, and I have a herniated disk in my lower back, the doctor said it's fairly minor, and certainly not operable. He said if it is hurting, don't do anything to aggravate it, but when it is not hurting, just be careful.

I've lived with this for 4 years now, I am used to it, and I know what to do to keep it from hurting. It's didnt show up on an x-ray is why it took so long to diagnose (that and crap doctors, finally yesterday i saw a spine specialist). Basically on good days I have no pain and can do anything (including squat and deadlift), bad days aren't chronic but I do have to be more careful (and can't squat, tho I can usually deadlift - go figure).

Anyway, he told me to build up strength in my back/abs to provide support, which is exactly what the 5x5 will do (I will of course be being very careful). My question: the eclipse article said you dont need to do any specific ab work , deadlifts and squats will work all your core. But yesterday i was specifically told by the physical therapist to strengthen my abs.

You guys know more about this stuff than I do, so what do you think?

Should I add in some ab work at the end of my workouts, or is squat and deadlift etc enough? The thing about ab work is it is of course isolation exercises, but everything I have been reading has been saying compound exercises are the way forward (this makes perfect sense to me). Are there any compound exercises that focus on the abs/core?

Thanks for any input. I started the 5x5 yesterday, (finally! been busy), this hernia business is an extra reason to stick to it and build some real strength to support my core.

thanks for any input

tankboy

[TheMachine]

You don't need any extra ab work, but fi you want to do some, that's fine.

Since it would be pointless to argue about it, do some decline weighted crunches 5x5 style ( of course get your top 5) and put emphasis on the lowering portion

[tankboy]

Ok, I'll give that a try. thanks for the input :Angel: