what exactly is enlightenment?

[marktkd]

ive always been wondering how do you know when you are enlightened and what exactly is enlightenment? and does any body know any good books on enlightenment?

[Kenshi]

enlightenment is when you can come to turms with the world and accept things as they are. there are a lot of good books on zen and enlightenment one i recomend is zen flesh zen bones it was one of the fist book i ever read on the subject. i a bunch of short stories and the fist time you read it, it won't make any sence but then one day it'll just click then your there hope that helps

[hafer34]

I feel enlightenment is when you are in complete control of yourself and are happy spirited. You know what you want in life and continue to achieve. You stay on that straight road and do not take any more detours. Enlightenment is much more detailed and complex than that but thats my insight. Peace.

[pesilat]

I think enlightenment is summed up in this quote:
"Lord, grant me the strength to change what I can, the patience to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to tell the difference."

Personally, I take out the religious connotations - while I think enlightenment can be reached through religion, I also think that a lot of religious people miss the boat (just my personal opinion).

I think enlightenment is a spiritual thing, not a religious thing. For some, the two are intertwined.

So, to me, "enlightenment" means having the "strength to change what I can, the patience to accept what I can't, and the wisdom to tell the difference."

And I would add to that, that it's an immersion in and enjoyment of the present moment. Even if the moment is painful or difficult, immerse and enjoy because it is this moment and you're able to do so.

Life is full of choices. The only choice we don't have is to be born or to die. Everything in between is a choice. By immersing and enjoying each moment, the "right" choices become self-evident. There are always factors beyond our control - so we have to learn to distinguish them and let them go. Then choose among the things we can control.

"Enlightenment" means (to me) learning to do this by second nature - in each and every moment - without effort or struggle.

But, like martial arts, I think it's a journey, not a destination.

That's my perspective on it, anyway.

Mike

[Jack]

Free from suffering caused by attachment and slavery to opinions, conceptions, and belief. Liberated from pain. Being aware fully in the present moment, not drifting away in the past or future. Being open, loving, compassionate. Being wise. Seeing through duality and oneness both. Accepting whatever comes with a choiceless awareness, not constantly running after things that will supposedly make you happy, and trying to avoid things that will supposedly upset you.

jack

[Knight_Errant]

I'm going to say this again.
Enlightenment, like hell, heaven, reincarnation, supreme beings of all shapes and sizes, and the tooth fairy, is not real. Why do so many people attach more importance to eastern religious fictions, when they are happy to accept that western ones are just that?
SQUAAAAT!

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Knight_errant
I'm going to say this again.
Enlightenment, like hell, heaven, reincarnation, supreme beings of all shapes and sizes, and the tooth fairy, is not real. Why do so many people attach more importance to eastern religious fictions, when they are happy to accept that western ones are just that?
SQUAAAAT!

Thanks for enlightening us KE! :D

[Knight_Errant]

:)

[YODA]

:D

KE has reached enlightenment :D

[Freeform]

Can't be to hard then ;)

Wonder why more people aren't :D

[natxanadu]

when you know everything and are at peace

[zun]

Enlightenment is nothing.
But nothing is enlightenment.

[YODA]

Originally posted by zun
Enlightenment is nothing.
But nothing is enlightenment.

Nothing acts faster than Anadin
So take nothing.

[KickChick]

Enlightenment is relative. Everyone experiences there own in different "ways" ... it is merely a change in one's state of consciousness. Enlightenment is not what you think... it's what you don't think.


If you ever reach total enlightenment while you're drinking a beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose.

[YODA]

Pray it's the nose :p

[RubyMoon]

You know that feeling when you're leaning back in your chair and you almost tip over but at the very last moment you catch yourself? :eek:

I think it's like that.

[Yama Tombo]

Enlightenment-education that results in understanding and the spread of knowledge. From www.dictionary.com

I sort of agree with K.E, I believe that enlightenment has been made out to be something mystical or to "accept reality and everything in it" thats just balderdash to me.

As the definition says it's the educational understanding and the spread of knowledge. You study to reach enlightenment IMO. It's not something you accept and start understanding everything around you. I sound touchy about the subject, but I'm not I'm just stating my opinion.

And religious text (christian),"a wiseman takes knowledge and uses it." That has so many meanings to me, that relates to what enlightenment should be.

Sorry, if I offended anyone and I'm not attacking anyone BTW.

[nzric]

I think it's the "you are one with the universe and everything is one with you so you see things clearly as they are without being clouded by ego or pride/desire"

Probably what you're supposed to get from taking drugs, but without the whole "life spiralling out of control, torment of withdrawel and your whole, real, life turning to muck while you sit drooling in a little fantasy land in the corner" part.

[Capt Ann]

OK, so here goes. Let's see just how many people I can offend...all in one little post.

I've been reading up on Buddhism, Daoism, Neo-Confusionism, and Christianity. (and yes, I'm really NO FUN at parties.)

The classic Buddhist view of enlightenment is that you end all of your passions and desires, which Guatama viewed as the source of all suffering. The problem with that philosophy is not all desires are bad. Are you really 'enlightened' if you eliminate all desire to help your fellow-man?

It seems those passions and desires are a gift, and need to be molded and directed, not eliminated. At one time daoism taught a balance of all things (look at the corner bars in the Korean flag--the symbol in the lower left represents fire--your passions and emotions- and the symbol in the top right represents water--your spirit, and possibly mind. These things are supposed to control and balance, not "put out", one another!)

The other major theme in Buddhist enlightenment is the idea of "becoming one with the universe". Buddhism teaches you must realize that YOU don't really exist, so YOU don't have to think about making YOU feel happy or anything that YOU might need. The problem with this view is that it doesn't jive with reality. YOU really DO exist. YOU have a unique personality, stamped with freedom of will, choice, and individuality. YOU are NOT a tree (and unless someone jams a branch into your gut, you will NEVER be part of the tree, or the tree part of YOU.) When YOU get hungry, YOU hurt (and unless you tell me, I don't even know about it).

I applaud your desire to even ask the question, or seek enlightenment, but I would suggest a change of course in your search. Just my thought, but I suggest you stop seeking 'enlightenment', and just look for truth....wherever that leads.

[YODA]

*Applause :D

Very enlightening :D

[Knight_Errant]

Personally, I think it happens when you stop seeking enlightenment and start squatting :D

[YODA]

Originally posted by Knight_errant
Personally, I think it happens when you stop seeking enlightenment and start squatting :D


I've had quite a few "visions" whilst squatting.

Oxygen starvation of the brain is a real hoot :p

[Knight_Errant]

cool! The new barbell will mean I'll never have to 'score' ever again :D

[YODA]

Originally posted by Knight_errant
cool! The new barbell will mean I'll never have to 'score' ever again :D


He SHOOTS! He - errr..... Hits the crossbar!

[zun]

Originally posted by Knight_errant
Personally, I think it happens when you stop seeking enlightenment and start squatting :D

I get enlightened every time I go to the toilet. Esp after a lovely vindaloo. :)

[bajiman]

Yes, I like the enlightment thingie....
I always compare it with "light"...as in ENLIGHT-Ment...
Let me put it like this:
When "light" hits you - you get blinded.
When there's people telling me they're enlighted I always ask, "and you stay enlighted -you stay in the light"......and think to myself, that most of them has been blinded by their own experience......

It is a good Idea, but WE, must make something out of it, and not stay restless in our meanings, views, opinions to life.

So......keep open for more "light" to hit you....... :-)

[SoKKlab]

what exactly is enlightenment?

I'll tell you in the morning....

[Reiki]

“The sound of the bell of Gionshoja echoes the impermanence of all things. The hue of the flowers of the teak tree declares that they that flourish must be brought low. Yea, the proud ones are but for a moment, like an evening dream in the springtime. The mighty are destroyed at the last, they are but as the dust before the wind.”

From The Samurai by S R Turnbull

[shunyadragon]

Enlightment is the realization of reality without education, logical or rational thought. The concept is in many religions and philosophies. Enlightenment does not necessarily go against logical or rational thinking, In fact it shouldn't, but it is not based on this thinking. Also referred to as awakening. In Christianity it may be called being 'born again' or 'seeing the light'. Buddha is called the 'enlightened' and Christ is called the 'annointed' which both reflect the same realization of a reality far greater than the realm of rational or logical thought.

In Chinese philosophy and tradition one way of becoming enlightened is climbing the 'zhong shan' or the middle mountain of three of one or more of the great mountains of China. I relate well to this experience. 'From the middle mountain you can see both of the other two mountains and realize everyone in the world is climbing the same mountains as you. They may be taking different paths.'

There are two types of enlightment in eastern philosophy. The first is the small realizations I call "Ah ha! That's it!". The second is the 'awakening' or the radical change in thinking or belief. To many this is a very joyous happy occasion when it reinforces their current belief or fulfills some deep inner desire to be saved or find the ultimate truth, which is an illusion. To me it was the reverse. IT was a very uncomfortable experience that reinforced nothing of what I believed before. It is more like an "Oh ****! This couldn't be true!" Despite my denial it was this realization that still haunts me.

Existence is what it is without secets, miracles or mysteries.

The unity and nothingness of reality was greater than any attempt I could make to explain IT, believe in IT or describe IT.

I looked up miracle in the dictionary and the next word was mirage.

The www.dictionary reference is to education oriented.

[ns_oni]

so yoda, you're saying you dont believe in elightenment?

[YODA]

Originally posted by ns_oni
so yoda, you're saying you dont believe in elightenment?

No - I'm saying that striving for it is a blind alley.

[Cain]

Yeah, you don't go over to enlightment, the enlightment comes over to you :D

PS - Enlightment's deaf and does'nt have a phone just in case if your wondering to call it ;)

|Cain|

[Disciple]

I believe the buddhism view is not in correct. It isn't about accepting eveything the was it is. It is about accepting what you are, or better asid, being self aware. It is being able to KNOW how things TRUELY ARE and how they SHOULD BE in society.
As far as the one with the universe. It is that, your identity is restricting, and even though we DO exsist, we are not just us, we are everything else at the same time. The buiddhist view on heaven and the afterlife, etc. It doesn't pertain now, b/c if you attain salvation, you don't need to worry about what it might be like, and you don't have to worry about what is will be like b/c you will eitehre get there by salvation, or not get there. It is about realizing your self as well as that you are part of the universe and realizing the universe.

Sometimes, we fall into this belief that science is an institution and an entity itself when merely it is the name for experimentation. Whether something is observe directly ort indirectly, with outside measuring devices or with our own. Therefore, when we do ignore what science really means we develop a very skeptic attitude and often miss half of the universe around us. Just b/c we cannot directly measure something that exists, does not mean it does not exist. For example, we cannot actually measure time. We merely make something up. seconds... please. We use the base unit of a second, right now, as a cycle of a cesium isotope. And clocks were originally invented to keep track or longitude, since latitde was measureable, but longitude not on the open seas. And sundials were only used to make a dividation of the day so people could predict the near future, ie. where they will be. and when the past was originally thought of, it was thought of in way that people would understand and that were only relvative. Now we applyu our ideas of seconds to the universe... how funny we are.

[Reiki]

you can't "strive for enlightenment", it will come only when you are ready and not before.

:)

[Disciple]

YOu have to work for enlgihtenment, you have to take steps. Steps to prepare yourself to be open to enlgihtenment, if you are not open then when it comes time to recieve, you will get nohting. The more open you are, the more often you see or recieve enlightenment.

[YODA]

Less doing and more being

[shunyadragon]

Disciple

The Buddhist view is not accepting everything 'as it is' if you are not self aware and know what you truely are. Cause you and I are part of what IS.

What is the difference between everything 'as it is', and how things TRUELY ARE.

Just curious how SHOULD IT really be?

[Guerilla Fists]

Enlightenment is attainable through the eightfold path :D.

My take on enlightenment is that it is finding true happiness. But to truly be happy you need to discern between pleasure (as it is often mistaken for happiness) and happiness. For me, happiness in the enlightened sense of the words, means being content and satisfied irregardless of whatever situation you are in.
But there are also qualities of enlightenment as are represented by the two Taras- wisdom and compassion.
Enlightenment is the full realization of the human conciousness, to purge from it the illusionary forms of the ego.
My recomendation is a book called "The Book: On the Taboo against knowing yourself" by Alan Watts. Also "the wisdome of insecurity" is a good one by the same author.
"The highest state of enlightenment is to hold no prejudices, beliefs, or faiths in any gods. It is pure unadultured awareness- to forget even the memory of sin."

[shunyadragon]

Originally posted by Eightfold Path
Enlightenment is attainable through the eightfold path :D.

My take on enlightenment is that it is finding true happiness. But to truly be happy you need to discern between pleasure (as it is often mistaken for happiness) and happiness. For me, happiness in the enlightened sense of the words, means being content and satisfied irregardless of whatever situation you are in.
But there are also qualities of enlightenment as are represented by the two Taras- wisdom and compassion.
Enlightenment is the full realization of the human conciousness, to purge from it the illusionary forms of the ego.
My recomendation is a book called "The Book: On the Taboo against knowing yourself" by Alan Watts. Also "the wisdome of insecurity" is a good one by the same author.
"The highest state of enlightenment is to hold no prejudices, beliefs, or faiths in any gods. It is pure unadultured awareness- to forget even the memory of sin."

Frank

In Buddhism the path to enlightment means does not deal with the existence or none existence of Gods. In fact Buddha's own words describes a universal source. One's efforts to prove or believe in God or no God may be a burden on the journey. Another bowling ball in the sack your carrying.

The path to enlightenment is to end separation and suffering and not preset goals.

The attainment of enlightment is best described as a journey and not attainment. 'To say you have it is to lose it.'

Alan Watts wavered between the belief or non-belief of God, but he for the most part beleived in the 'Source' whether you call it god or not. God is simply a three letter word.