Hapkido and TKD

[AllieB]

I know that Hapkido is a Korean art as is TKD but i have not yet seen anything that they have in common including forms defenses throws. Do they have a lot in common?

[klaasb]

Nope

[AllieB]

do they have anything in common

[klaasb]

They are both from Korea, and share some common terminology.

The 'problem' (if you want to call it a problem) is that nowadays a in lot of TKD-gyms hapkido is being taught as a add-on art. Where hapkido is being presented as TKD+more self defense.

[Cosmo Kramer]

my experience was they are very different, they do some of the same blocks, but the kicks are generally done a little differently. such as a turning kick in TKD we would land forward, in Hapkido we always bring it back. those kinds of small differences. but Hapkido involved a lot more things than TKD, where that did a larger variety of kicks, and did forms

[Thomas]

They are both from Korea, and share some common terminology.

The 'problem' (if you want to call it a problem) is that nowadays a in lot of TKD-gyms hapkido is being taught as a add-on art. Where hapkido is being presented as TKD+more self defense.
To expand on this as well, I think there was a lot of cross-pollination between TKD and HKD (and others) from the early days. If you take a look through the Ho ShinSool (self defence) portions of Taekwondo (General Choi's books, footage of TKD in the 60s, Dr. Kimm's Taekwondo book, and etc) you will see a lot of Hapkido in the self defense bits.

Hapkido is a great art for self defense and it's been used as a source for TKD self defense in many cases, sometimes being cited as a source and sometimes not.

As far as similarities, I don't see a lot from a superficial sense. TKD forms are a lot different than HKD forms (those few kwans that have them). TKD tends to be more linear and a lot more striking based whereas HKD is more circular and a more well-rounded combination of striking, locking, etc. However, in my opinion, they complement each other well, and can provide for a nice depth of Korean arts knowledge for self defense.

There are some who frown on the cross training and using other arts to complement each other, but from a Korean perspective, both Taekwondo and Hapkido come from a bunch of various sources and were made into uniquely Korean arts, so I think using them to complement each other shouldn't be too far of a stretch from what the founders did. And, it should be more palatable than looking outside of Korean arts for solutions. :D

[AllieB]

I see but do you think it will interfere with my newly found kung fu class and sword classes??

[Thomas]

I see but do you think it will interfere with my newly found kung fu class and sword classes??
Ummm... did I miss a part? What does TKD and HKD commonalities have to do with Kung Fu and sword?

Off the cuff, I normally would say focus on one thing at a time at least until you reach a level where you have agood grasp of the fundamentals (usually black belt) and then expand your horizons. There is a lot in Kung Fu that can help you understand TKD or HKD on a deeper level... sword, too. I think experiencing life in different ways helps us understand our "regular" ways... make sense?

[klaasb]

There are some who frown on the cross training and using other arts to complement each other, but from a Korean perspective, both Taekwondo and Hapkido come from a bunch of various sources and were made into uniquely Korean arts, so I think using them to complement each other shouldn't be too far of a stretch from what the founders did. And, it should be more palatable than looking outside of Korean arts for solutions. :D

I don't frown upon cross training, but IMO practicing TKD before starting HKD is a bad idea.
The principles of both arts (linear vs. circular) contradict each other. I wouldn't use the word 'complement' for that.

When former TKD students enroll in my class I have to unlearn them many things.

[AllieB]

i have been researching HKD more and more and i am starting to see just how dificult/complicated it is going to be to try them both at the same time even if it helps my defenses and general knowledge it probably with really mess me up in doing my forms as they become more complicated. I just watched a hapkido form online and wow i can see the circular now and it is starting to all come together about how much they they are different.

[Thomas]

I don't frown upon cross training, but IMO practicing TKD before starting HKD is a bad idea.
The principles of both arts (linear vs. circular) contradict each other. I wouldn't use the word 'complement' for that.


I can see where you are coming from but I would have to politely disagree. Just from my own personal perspective, I had studied Taekwondo for a couple of years before starting IHF Hapkido. It didn't handicap me and my HKD instructor seemed very pleased with how well I picked up HKD. As a school that teaches TKD and Combat Hapkido, a student's background in TKD through us before starting CHKD is generally a good thing with the benefits outweighing the little changes that have to be made. I imagine that case-by-case it varies between schools though, as you mention.

Taekwondo at first look is fairly linear, but when you get into the sparring you can see where a balance of circular and linear can make for a powerful arsenal. And, when we look at the "self defense" side of TKD (Ho Shin Sool) we see the application of Hapkido techniques and concepts, the ciruclar avoidance and power generation is just as much a tool as linear power and striking.

The early masters of Taekwondo saw the advantage of Hapkido's circular defenses and plugged it into Taekwondo for self defense. The early HKD masters saw the advantages of linear Taekwondo-esque kicking and striking and snuck that into HKD as well (take a look through various HKD references out there and see how many linear TKD-like techniques are used to counter strikes and other attacks). The influence goes (and has gone) both ways.

When former TKD students enroll in my class I have to unlearn them many things.
Just thinking out loud but I wonder if your IHF background (and the influence of Aikido and Hankido in what you do) makes what you do a wider shift from the linear responses than other kwans may do. With Hankido being even more circular than other Hapkidos out there I can where a TKD student could cause you a lot of problems.

[Jointlock]

I don't frown upon cross training, but IMO practicing TKD before starting HKD is a bad idea.
The principles of both arts (linear vs. circular) contradict each other. I wouldn't use the word 'complement' for that.

When former TKD students enroll in my class I have to unlearn them many things.

Some of my best students have been previous TKD and Karate Students. A lot of people that come to me with prior martial arts training seem to be more committed to the martial arts, and are looking for something more than just a striking and kicking art. Yes some retraining with kicking usually needs to be done but there still is a martial art foundation there.

[klaasb]

I never said that it was impossible for a TKD student to learn HKD. And of course some previous experience might always come in handy, especially when you aren't afraid of learning something old in a new way with a different perspective.

And Thomas you are right that we do things a lot more circular. But this is only the case in the beginning where the circular movements are overly emphasized. Later movements might seem straight on the outside, but are still circular on the inside. In HKD every movement is circular in nature, even though looks might be deceiving ...

In TKD however a straight looking movement will most probably be straight in nature as well. Here I will make an exception for people using 'sine wave' to kick.

If you are looking for a kicking-art to complement your HKD training, try Taekkyon.

[Thomas]

Nice post, Klaas, I still disagree with you but you sure are eloquent and make great points. :)

If you are looking for a kicking-art to complement your HKD training, try Taekkyon.
Good suggestion although just be careful to remember that Taek Kyeon is a kind of sport and to fit it into Hapkido prinicples you will need to modify and de-sport it a bit, especially with the jumping/spinning/high kicks thta are more designed for competition than self defense. But as far as I know the movements are more circular than TKD so the fit would probably be easier. (Finding a Taek kyeon school though may prove a lot tougher than finding a TKD school!)

:)