Studying Silat in Indonesia

[GZA]

I've been offered a job in Makassar.

does anyone know if i'll be able to train Silat while I'm living there?

thanks

[Rebo Paing]

The Bugis and Toraja people are from that area and were considered fierce warriors (especially the Bugis). So yes, there is silat there. Sorry that I can't be more specific!

Try asking your question at http://www.kpsnusantara.com/ .

They have an English section there as well.

Salam,
Krisno

[GZA]

many thanks

[Gajah Silat]

The term Boogeyman originates from the Bugis whom the European spice traders greatly feared. Strange how such a term has entered into Western conciousness to mean a monster or psycho in a ski mask :eek:

The Bugis traders/pirates/bajag/orang laut, are thought by some to have greatly influenced Silat. Both the Bugis and the Makassarese weapon of choice is the badik.

A good & hilarious read is Nigel Barley's 'Not a Hazardous Sport'. An ethnography and comedy of errors in Torajaland, Sulawesi. Funny, honest & human, although nothing whatsoever to do with Silat :confused:

BTW traditional Torajan houses are magnificent :)

[nasigoreng]

Good Luck GZA,

Makassar is a part of the country that is very devout muslim. Some silat instructors will teach non-muslims and others will not. Perisai Diri and Merpatih Putih are two big National silat organizations that usually have clubs on the university campuses and they don't descriminate like that . these clubs might be more oriented towards 'sport'silat (olah raga) instead of self-defense (bela diri) though.

I'm assuming you don't speak bhs indonesia.. .that will be a big obstacle.

If you're ever in Jakarta give me a buzz and we'll hangout.

[Kiai Carita]

I've been offered a job in Makassar.

does anyone know if i'll be able to train Silat while I'm living there?

thanks

Silat is very popular in Makasar. The president of the silat federation in the UK is from there. Contact Bapak Aidinal Alrashid through the UK silat federation and he will be able to show you the way around Makasar. He is actually from that area and regularly sends people to train there. A lot of boat silat there.

Warm salaams,
Bram.

[amirul_tekpi79]

Assalamu'alaikum and peace to all,

Dear Pak Bram and fellow pesilat,

It's been a while since my last post. Pak Bram, are you still in Indonesia??? When are you coming to Malaysia??? If you come here, i'll introduce you to the Northern Malaysian Gendang Silat culture.

To Taker, (if you are reading this),

Where in Kedah are you?? Do you know Shafri? He's Silat Cekak Hanafi's Kedah Treasurer. He's also my cousin.


Peace

[Kiai Carita]

Assalamu'alaikum and peace to all,

Dear Pak Bram and fellow pesilat,

It's been a while since my last post. Pak Bram, are you still in Indonesia??? When are you coming to Malaysia??? If you come here, i'll introduce you to the Northern Malaysian Gendang Silat culture.


Peace

Wa'alaikum Salaam Adek Amirul!

Nice to see you posting here again. I have been in Indonesia since the beginning of this year ... planting rice and looking after my forest-garden (kebun). I don't know whether I will be going to Malaysia. I was in Thailand in February for work which was interesting. Met some traditional Thai boxers and watched matches in a festival ... Did you know that they use a type of 'kembangan' or 'tari bunga' before they fight in the ring? I was interested in the trumpet that featured in the music and they told me that it originaly was from Jawa. So there you go, Muay Thai is was related to silat some time back. ... BTW if you are in Jawa this year drop me a note and we will meet up. I will be here till the end of the year, mostly in Yogyakarta and Madiun area.

Sampai jumpa!
KC

[Rebo Paing]

Wa'alaikum Salaam Adek Amirul!

Nice to see you posting here again.

...

Sampai jumpa!
KC

Likewise Bram :D

Did you also know that given the right catalyst, human beings will uncover similar principles as it applies to the methods of self preservation? A man generally has a head, torso, 2 arms and 2 legs. The most effective ways of using this combination is finite.

Of course you get some people who favour certain elements of that mix, but in the end there is a unifying principle, a point of origin.

Salam,
Krisno

[hottdogg]

GZA, find more info about silat badai. I read in www.pamorbadai.com that silat badai has root history in south sulawesi area.

[Wali]

So there you go, Muay Thai is was related to silat some time back. ...
As we have said for some time. We are going through a change where we will be teaching what will be known as 'Satria Fighting Arts', as oppossed to simply silat. This will take into account the other influences which are included in our system, and acknoledge the Veidic/Siamese/other roots to what we teach. Watch this space! ;)

[fire cobra]

Mixing muay thai and silat wali? :)

[slipthejab]

I was in Thailand in February for work which was interesting. Met some traditional Thai boxers and watched matches in a festival ... Did you know that they use a type of 'kembangan' or 'tari bunga' before they fight in the ring? I was interested in the trumpet that featured in the music and they told me that it originaly was from Jawa. So there you go, Muay Thai is was related to silat some time back. ...

Yeah that nice little instrument is what is commonly referred to in english as the Javanese clarinet. :D


Muay Thai Music is the music that play during the Muay Thai fight. Muay Thai is unique in sense that the action has to be accompanied by music so as to heighten the excitement. This musical accompaniment is ofter referred to as Pi Muay which is, in fact, a musical instrument like a clarinet. The clarinet like instrument produces various pitches of sound reflecting the thrill and excitement of the tune played by the musician.

Generally, the musical instruments that accompany the Thai boxing fight are considered of the following 4 items:

1. Pi Java (Javanese Clarinet) - Pi Java (Javanese Clarinet) originating from India, is generally referred to as Pi Kaek. It has been much changed and developed from the original version by the Javanese. The sound is hauntingly appealing and unfailingly exciting. So the Thais have adopted it to accompany Thai boxing.

2. Klong Kaak - Klong Kaak is a set of two drums. One drum has a high-pitched sound called a male drum. The other one has a low-pitched sound called a female drum. The drum that accompany to the Muay Thai fight has a long shape called Klong Kaak which longs about 58 centimeters long. The surfaces of drums are unequal diameters. The bigger one has the diameter of 20 centimeters and called “Narai” whereas the smaller one is only 18 centimeters in diameter and called “Nathan”. The drum is covered with special material. There must always be two drums (Klong Kaek) in the band, as the player will place them on his laps and uses his hands to beat the exciting rhythm out of them.

3. Ching (Cymbals) - Ching is made of brass or iron. These cymbals are connected together with a piece of string to prevent any loss or misplace which help to accentuate the excitement.

4. Kong (Muay Thai Drum) - Kong is another Muay Thai music instrument. It is a drum that originate from the south of Thailand. It helps to heighten the thrill and increase the andrenalin of the fighters.



The MuayThai Orchestra.



For many newcomers to MuayThai, the strange and haunting sound of music in the stadium is a novel and unique experience.

In Thailand itself, the music is played live by a four-piece orchestra. The origins of this are unclear but it is assumed that it dates back to the martial history of MuayThai – to a time when soldiers were accompanied into battle by musicians.

Initially as the fighters carry out the Ram Muay – the ritual dance of homage an d respect at the start of a bout, the orchestra will play a special piercing type of music, which they then change when the fight actually begins. The music played for the Wai Kru is noticeably different - slower and more reverent, to the more martial music for the fight itself.

As the fight progresses, the tempo speeds up , the drums beating out an ever-faster rhythm and the Pi Java wails aloud to encourage the fighters.
In smaller stadiums, and usually the same applies outside of Thailand, a recording is used.

The Pi Java
It is believed that this pipe owes its origins to India from whence the Indonesians took the tradition originally. From there it travelled to a use in Royal and Army processions in Thailand. Used in Krabi Krabong ( Thai fencing ) bouts, it soon found a place in MuayThai also.

It is made in 2 sections, a cylindrical body of 10 _ inches and a bell of 5 _ inches and made of hardwood or sometimes ivory. There are 7 finger holes along the body. A small metal tube with 4 reeds is attached to the body and wrapped with thread. The whole is inserted into the mouth via a convex piece of metal – this used to be coconut, slightly more pleasant.

The Ching
This is a pair of cymbals made of thick metal and shaped like a tea-cup or a hollow cone, each measure about 6-7 cm in diameter.
A cord holds the 2 together – the Ching player acts as a timekeeper and beats out the rhythm for the others. The sound varies from melodious to a dull clapping

The Glawng Khaek
This drum is sometimes referred to by the name, glawng chawa- or "Javanese drum," because it is thought that the drum originated in from Java. In the Javanese gamelan, there are two kinds of drums, one of which is similar to this one.

In olden times, this instrument was probably used in royal processions when the King was carried on an elephant or on the river on the royal barge. Later it was added to Thai percussion instruments and used to accompany theatrical presentations and MuayThai bouts.
During a MuayThai fight, 2 types of drum are used, – the heads of unequal size. The larger head is 20 cm. (8") in diameter and called narui-- literally, "lose head," and the smaller, 18 cm. (7") in diameter, called na- ta-n --"outer head."

Both are made of either calfskin or goatskin. In the past they were held together with rattan or cane which was split in half and tied together at a wide angle but now leather thongs are usually used.

One drum is of a higher pitch - the Tua pu or the male drum while the other makes a deeper sound- the Tua mia or female. Musicians use the palm and fingers of the hand to make the stirring sound we hear in the stadiums.

Together they create the complex rhythm we hear through intermingling and alternating the sounds of the two drums with the other instruments.
source: http://www.wmtc.nu/html/wmc03_mthist-msic.html

Personally I'm a big fan of SE Asian tradtional music... and especially of Gamelan style music. There are many similarities between Gamelan and many of the types of traditional music of the Khmers and Thai's.

One of these days I'll convince my local fight promoters to hire an Indonesian Gamelan ensemble to play at the Muay Thai fights. :D

One of the nicest pieces of music I own is a Sundanese Gamelan album:

Album title: Degung Sabilulungan
Artist(s): Suara Prahiangan Group

another good one is:

Jegog (western Balinese Gamelan)
Suar Agung

[Gajah Silat]

Asianly erudite as ever Slipster.

I wonder why Ram Muay is easily accepted by MAists but kembangan is often treated with disdain :confused:

Trumpets! I remember a unusual 'trumpet' among the mountain people of N Laos too. However, the first section connected with the main body at right angles. This was then held low with a spinning around trumpet dervish type dance. I remember twirling around myself holding a massive stone jug filled with water with my teeth :eek: However this was post lao lao :o ;)

Of dances & combat. Certainly we must make a strong connection as many many cultures throughout the world encode combat within dance. Rythmn is essential for both. Many cultures have used dance to diguise movement and technique whilst oppressed. Many cultures use dance as ritualised combat.

As I've got older, and as a musician, I have begun conceptualise attacks as 'beats'. I suppose the term beat speaks for itself. However, I don't mean this in the simple sense of lets say, bam bam bam, but more the interplay of rythmns and using it for an off beat. Kinda reminds me of the Arabesque use of quatertones....

Umm, anyway I must have drank too much kopi today :o

By the way KC (& the Sunshine Band :confused: ), I'll be in Jatim trading some silat bule for some silat kampung in a week or two. I'll drop you a PM :)

[Kiai Carita]

By the way KC (& the Sunshine Band :confused: ), I'll be in Jatim trading some silat bule for some silat kampung in a week or two. I'll drop you a PM :)

Hi GS... I suppose you will be in Blitar area right? If you have time to get to the west side of Jatim, silakan mampir. I suppose you will be with Ibu GS and the little one too? Bring them too. I am in the Ngawi district just before you get into Jateng...just about in the middle between Ngawi and Sragen. In my village here there is some Cempaka Putih (Cimande), Kera Sakti (Banten + China) and many SH Terate (like a political party) ... it is rice harvest time now and in a few weeks will be planting season. People are very busy but we should be able to ask some guys to give a demonstration for a genuine bule pesilat from England.

Wali... I heard Steve mentioning about teaching SE Fighting arts or something like that a few years back instead of strictly silat. I hope it goes well and smooth. BTW I am still waiting for the feature film you guys were making. When is it due to be released?

Salaam persilatan.
KC

[Wali]

Wali... I heard Steve mentioning about teaching SE Fighting arts or something like that a few years back instead of strictly silat. I hope it goes well and smooth. BTW I am still waiting for the feature film you guys were making. When is it due to be released?

Salaam persilatan.
KC
Hi Kiai,

The movie is still going ahead. We are in negotiations with varios parties, and it's all looking very good. Silat is coming 'en force' to the Big screen...

Regards,
Wali

[Kiai Carita]

Hi Kiai,

The movie is still going ahead. We are in negotiations with varios parties, and it's all looking very good. Silat is coming 'en force' to the Big screen...

Regards,
Wali

Hi Wali... seems that you are up late as it is morning here at GMT + 7! Is the movie the Dark Eden mentioned on the EWS site? Judging from what I have seen you guys doing I'm sure the silat will be a real spectacle! Good luck and salaams to Steve, Alvin, Angel, Johnny and Laarni too. If there is anything I can do to help from here just ask.

Wali, do you know two guys called Delroy and Rob who used to study with Steve? Delroy works in the theatres in the West End and Rob I think is a personal trainer and lives somewhere near Queen's Park - they used to often drop in to Camden and chat about silat and keris and kebatinan and I would like to get in touch but I lost their emails.

Slipthejab, thank you for the lesson on Thai music. Very interesting to me, as it appears to put the time of the cross-fertilization between the martial arts way back to the Syailendra times of the 1st Mataram, around the years 700 - 900 in the Christian era, around the time of the construction of Borobudur. In the later times - like the Majapahit era, it seems that the Jawa influence in Thailand was more in the South where the people speak Jawi and use keris - though it sounds more like Malay that Jawanese to the modern ear. By the way would you know how and when the Thais began to use boxer xhorts, gloves and a roped square ring?

Cheers,
KC

[Narrue]

I was in Thailand in February for work which was interesting. Met some traditional Thai boxers and watched matches in a festival ... Did you know that they use a type of 'kembangan' or 'tari bunga' before they fight in the ring? I was interested in the trumpet that featured in the music and they told me that it originaly was from Jawa. So there you go, Muay Thai is was related to silat some time back.

Oral tradition and Music in many cultures can be traced back thousands of years. Its quite interesting when you travel to the other side of the world only to find that some songs and oral tradition are identical, how can that be? An interesting example is ancient Vedic Indian folk songs and ancient Irish folk songs, they are often found to be the same yet India and Ireland are geographically so far apart!

The Irish music critic, Fanny Feehan, in a paper entitled "Suggested Links Between Eastern and Celtic Music" (1981) states:


...In the area of vocal ornamentation East and West come close. I once played a Claddagh recording of Maire Aine (Ni Dhonnacha) singing `Barr an tSleibhe' for an Indian Professor of Music who refused to believe, until I showed her the sleeve of the record, that it was an Irish song. She claimed, and demonstrated by singing to me, that the song bore a strange resemblence to an Indian (North) raga about a young girl being lured toward a mountain. The Professor was interested in the mode, the pitching of the voice, and certain notes which were characteristic of both the raga and `Barr na tSleibhe'...
One of the most ancient forms of Celtic music, which still survives in a few areas in western Ireland, is the marbhnai, or "death song", also called keening. (caoine). These songs are sung by women, and have been compared with the raga style of India, which it is similarly improvised around three or four notes. Historian Bryan McMahon plays an interesting game with every Indian guest who visits a certain hotel in County Kerry, Ireland. He hums certain Irish folk music and then asks them to complete it however they like. He says that, almost every time, they will sing it like they already know the song. McMahon believes that, for him, it is an indication that Indians and Irishmen have a common past of some kind.
http://www.ancientquest.com

[slipthejab]

Nice post man.

[Gajah Silat]

Hehe, this thread's gone off at a tangent :)

Here's an article for Narrue.
Article by Neil MacGregor Campbell
Paganism - A Comparative Exploration into Pagan and Indian Religion, Myth and Culture

http://www.geocities.com/indianpaganism/celticvedic.html

And of course there's the fact that Romany Gypsies are thought to have originated in Rajasthan, many settled in Ireland ;)

Mind you I've never heard anything resembling a gamelan used in Celtic music :confused:

[Narrue]

Thanks for the link Gajah Silat ,very interesting! Whilst there are numerous connections between Vedic India and Ireland I don’t think the ancient Irish got their knowledge from the Vedic Indians, nor do I think the Irish traveled to India and gave the Vedic teachings to the Indians. Instead I believe that the same warrior race which invaded ancient India is the same warrior race that invaded Ireland, I’m talking about the Aryan race, they are the people responsible for the similarities between the two cultures. They were not native to Ireland but escaped a volcanic cataclysm that ended with their island being lost beneath the waves.

[Narrue]

As we have said for some time. We are going through a change where we will be teaching what will be known as 'Satria Fighting Arts', as oppossed to simply silat. This will take into account the other influences which are included in our system, and acknoledge the Veidic/Siamese/other roots to what we teach. Watch this space! ;)

Satria……. Wali I think it’s a good choice of names! Do all your members have to grow long thumb nails yet :D I guess you could have called it Wali fighting arts but it’s not as catchy!

I have heard of a silat style called Satria Muda, anyone here know anything about it, history etc?

[Pekir]

I have heard of a silat style called Satria Muda, anyone here know anything about it, history etc?

Satria Muda is a dutch-indonesian expression of PS Minangkabau. Their website has an english version too. Check out www.satriamuda.nl if you want to learn more about them.

Pekir

[B3astfrmthe3ast]

silat what kind of martial arts is it (Please dont flame) but like i see a lot of pictures with silat practitioners holding swords so i was wondering is it like kali or is it a stirking martial arts?

[Ular Sawa]

silat what kind of martial arts is it (Please dont flame) but like i see a lot of pictures with silat practitioners holding swords so i was wondering is it like kali or is it a stirking martial arts?

Where to start? Think of the term "Silat" as a generic term to describe the indigenous martial arts of Indonesia, Malaysia, and the southern PI. There are many different types of Silat just as there are many types of Kung Fu/Wu Shu.

There are some commonalities as bladed weapons are emphasized. There is a flowing type movement in Silat that you would not see in Karate. It is defintely a striking art with all the body's natural weapons being utilized. This is just a short answer mind you and there are older threads that can answer your question in greater detail.

[Gajah Silat]

Hi GS... I suppose you will be in Blitar area right? If you have time to get to the west side of Jatim, silakan mampir. I suppose you will be with Ibu GS and the little one too? Bring them too. I am in the Ngawi district just before you get into Jateng...just about in the middle between Ngawi and Sragen. In my village here there is some Cempaka Putih (Cimande), Kera Sakti (Banten + China) and many SH Terate (like a political party) ... it is rice harvest time now and in a few weeks will be planting season. People are very busy but we should be able to ask some guys to give a demonstration for a genuine bule pesilat from England.


Salaam persilatan.
KC

Salam mas KC,

Ma'afkan aku for the delay but...I've actually just returned to Bali after spending a week or so in Java. Due to having Gajah Kecil with us I decided to go all up-market and hire a Turuno for the drive to Java and inadvertantly seemed to become a Jatim taxi servis :rolleyes: :) So a week and a thousand or so miles later, coupled with a family predisposition for motion sickness I'm a little capek :o

So a few days rest and I'll be taking the ferry again!

A couple of questions for you. Firstly there is a very neat little town between Srono and Jember called Glenmore which made me a little curious :confused:

Secondly, Mak in law has an artifact inherited from the late uncle dukun which is a kind of bronze pecut or whip which seems to be very old. It is clearly marked with buddhist iconography but has some not to clear Arabic script that appears to have been added later. Any clues?

To make things a little more interesting 3yr old Gajah Kecil picked it up, proclaimed it was 'for magic' and proceeded to go around casting spells with it. This caused quite a stir :eek:

Anyway must selamat malam now, and I'll have to see how things pan out in a few days in Jatim :)

[Kiai Carita]

A couple of questions for you. Firstly there is a very neat little town between Srono and Jember called Glenmore which made me a little curious :confused:

Secondly, Mak in law has an artifact inherited from the late uncle dukun which is a kind of bronze pecut or whip which seems to be very old. It is clearly marked with buddhist iconography but has some not to clear Arabic script that appears to have been added later. Any clues?

To make things a little more interesting 3yr old Gajah Kecil picked it up, proclaimed it was 'for magic' and proceeded to go around casting spells with it. This caused quite a stir :eek:

Anyway must selamat malam now, and I'll have to see how things pan out in a few days in Jatim :)

Salam Mas Gajah,

Glenmore was established by an Englishman or a Scott back in the 19th century colonial plantation days - I think as a centre for his tea plantation.

Small cemeti -pecut or whips from bronze often are part of dukun's paraphenalia but don't normally clasify as tosan-aji. They can be old but most often are made to look old and sold through the dukun's clients and network. If you are in Surabaya go see Manshur Hidayat for nice and genuine keris (google his name + keris for address) and you could ask him about your pecut. If you are near Ngawi please drop by, our house is open.

Salam hangat,
Bram.

[Gajah Silat]

Salam Mas Kiai,

Once again apologies, but I've been pulang kampung since my last post and have been sooo busy.

I have been playing two types of Silat, so I've learnt some new tricks. A Madura family style and Caka Harimau.

I already have kris, chosen for me by Pak Jati of Jember and it is very special :)

It's pulang UK in a few days so I might add a few of my experiences to the forum. I've been asking a lot of questions and getting even more answers ;)

Selamat malam

[Pekir]

Satria Muda is a dutch-indonesian expression of PS Minangkabau. Their website has an english version too. Check out www.satriamuda.nl if you want to learn more about them.

Pekir

Need to make a correction. I made it sound like Satria Muda was a pure Dutch-indonesion expression. This isn't the case, there are indonesians Satria Muda schools (SMI) too. I happen to know the dutch school....

[Taker]

Assalamu'alaikum and peace to all,

To Taker, (if you are reading this),

Where in Kedah are you?? Do you know Shafri? He's Silat Cekak Hanafi's Kedah Treasurer. He's also my cousin.


Peace

Wa'alaikumussalam,

Nice meeting you, I'm in Alor Setar and yes I know Shafri :) He did tell about you quite a lot but never about you being his cousin :rolleyes: .

You can email me personally at undertaker@cekakhanafi.com

Are you in Kedah too now? Perhaps we can meet sometime.

Salam.

[amirul_tekpi79]

Assalamu'alaikum and peace to all,

ahh...he didn't eh? well i'm sure to ask shafri about that soon :cool:

Of course we can meet, inshaAllah. I'm at Taman Darulaman, near the stadium.

No need for emails, if you want to meet, you can ask shafri to give me a call and all three of us can share some interesting stories on Silat Panglima Istana Kedah. Or you can just call me directly.

See you soon(?)

peace