Would you kill?

[Hapuka]

If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?

Thats if they were putting up a fight.

For starters I would never kill a human, I would rather die.

So that would be a no.

But what is your view? What do you say?

[tekkengod]

if you'd rather die than end him, and hes got a knife, i'm sure he can facillitate this wish. :rolleyes: very naieve and self-destructive ideology.

[Su lin]

I would do whatever I needed to in the situation to stay alive,life is too good to throw away for someone who is that bad.

[Moi]

I would do whatever I needed to in the situation to stay alive,life is too good to throw away for someone who is that bad.

Until you're in that situation you will never know, same goes for the original poster, the survival instinct can be very strong.

[Dragon Brush]

I voted no, but only because I wouldn't really WANT to kill them. I don't think I'd be able to take a life too easily, no matter the circumstances.

But I'll have no idea how I'll react when put in that situation until it happens... hopefully not though. :eek:

[Mei Hua]

Yep, already have.

[angacam]

Yes.

[adouglasmhor]

We humans can be very hard or very easy to kill. But once you do take someones life you too can look forward to any combination of broken sleep, violent dreams, binge drinking, depression and aggresive or irational behaviours. Big boys games, big boys rules, big boys stakes.

[Mei Hua]

Exactly.

[adouglasmhor]

Been there Bro,You'l get though it, you'l be better, but it never totaly goes away.

[Dojo]

i think my folks do need me alive and it would be better than have them visit me in the cemetery. So I think I'd take a life in order to save mine

[g-bells]

if i would come down to them or me then i would kill

[Hiroji]

I like your sig G. ;)

I have never been in a situation where i might have to kill to live, so its hard to say. But maybe its just a natural reaction to kill someone in that situation so id say yes without any experience.

[g-bells]

I like your sig G. ;)

I have never been in a situation where i might have to kill to live, so its hard to say. But maybe its just a natural reaction to kill someone in that situation so id say yes without any experience.


thanks h

[aikiMac]

"Some people need killin'."
- my best friend in college, commenting on news stories


We'll never know if I would kill or not, until I am threatened.
I like to think, though, that I didn't waste my money on dojo tuition.

[Angelus]

if someone tried to kill me and there was no other way i would kill...
if a bear attacked me and i had to kill it to save myself why wouldn't i do the same with a person?

[Mike71]

If my only option were to fight someone armed with a knife and they were intent upon causing me bodily harm I would do whatever I could to defend myself. I would not be looking to kill the person, but then again I doubt their wellbeing would even register on me until the situation was over. Having been attacked a couple of times in my life I've never found that I'm too contemplative in the midst of an unexpected violent encounter.

--Michael

[TheMightyMcClaw]

If the only way to preserve my life was to end another, then I would. Hopefully, I'll never be in that situation.

[Victoria]

I would, given little alternative.

[Cathain]

I would prefer not to, but in the event of being attacked by a knife then I would take whatever means necessary to safeguard myself or family. I refuse to kill in cold blood (theoretically ;) ), but legitimate self-defense is another matter altogether.

[kwang gae]

Would I kill another human to save my life? -- yes.
>> Would I feel bad about it? -- no
Would I kill another human to save my family -- yes.
>> Would I feel bad about it? -- no
Would I kill an animal for food? -- yes.
>> Would I feel bad about it? -- no
Would I kill an animal for kicks? -- no.
>> Would I feel bad about it? -- n/a

[Mei Hua]

Have you ever killed anyone?

You'd be surprised how it does effect you, I've only ever met a handful of people not effected after killing, and they are some scary people.

[tekkengod]

i dunno how it'd affect me. i consider myself a fairly disturbed individual but i'm sure it would have some lasting effects.

[Cathain]

Have you ever killed anyone?

You'd be surprised how it does effect you, I've only ever met a handful of people not effected after killing, and they are some scary people.
Yes. I expect that it would require someone being a clinical psychopath to be totally unaffected by such a deed. Saying and doing are two different things.

[boards]

Not having been in that situation I cant say for sure, but I think that instinct would take over and if an opening came up which would win the fight, but lead to their death, I imagine that I would automatically take it. Once it sank in I would probably be a mess.

[koyo]

ASked this question I would really like to say NO. However having been attacked with a blade hidden in a "finger bandage" and seeing the blood on my arm I went balistic and would have killed the guy had I not broken his arm and knocked him out. You do not know till you have been there.

regards koyo

[paihequan]

I work in a industry that often brings me into contact with less than pillars of the community.

Alcohol, drugs ... these often have an influence in bringing out the darker side of people's character.

In brief, if my life or my family's life was in danger, no hesitation ...... yes.

[FortuneFaded]

I do not know. I'm sure if i killed a person during this scenario it'd be by accident. I said yes, as i reckon that is plausable for me, i'd rather live.

[Cait]

unequivically yes. my life is mine, and i'm not gonna let some buggering eejit take it just because i'm worried about hurting them.

no doubt i'd be sick afterwards, but better sick than dead.

[Fishbone.]

Yes.

I'm not going to let some idiot take my life just because i'm scared to hurt him. I never go asking for fights.. Self defense is my duty, And I'm a real guy for standing up in what I believe in.

You only live once. I believe there is an afterlife.. Death doesn't scare me.

[gornex]

Yep, already have.

Can you tell more about it?

[Mei Hua]

Can you tell more about it?

I served in Iraq, Baghdad/Fallujah/Mosul, 'nuff said.

[Fishbone.]

Army?

[Mei Hua]

LOL, na


Corps

[Fishbone.]

Lock N Load

[Legless_Marine]

I served in Iraq, Baghdad/Fallujah/Mosul, 'nuff said.

Did you make a necklace of ears?

[Mei Hua]

Did you make a necklace of ears?

Hey, take it to PM or stay on topic, instead of ruining this thread.

If you have the maturity to do that, good.

[Fishbone.]

Necklaces of ears.. Come on.

Give people dignity for gods sake.

[tekkengod]

Did you make a necklace of ears?

what is wrong with you? do you have a mental disease?

[Fishbone.]

I'm still eating my toast here.. :eek:

[wrydolphin]

Legless, as far as I am concerned, this is your last warning. NO MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS.

[pauli]

billions of years of evolution haven't lead to my existence just so i can get killed by some clown with a knife without a fight.

er, that didn't come out right. but the point stands.

[Terao]

I wouldnt kill someone if they attacked but if they never stopped attacking or tryed to kill me without regard for anyone else i would have to,for saftey of others and myself so in answer to the poll yes i would kill

[bcullen]

Here's a question I've been seeing a lot of recently:

Could you cause harm to an individual, up to and including the use of lethal force resulting in the death of the individual, during the commission of your duties?

The answer is of course, yes, but I'm hoping I never have to prove it.

[Grifter]

Simple...of course Id kill them. Of course thats assuming they dont get me first.

[Kenpo_Iz_Active]

Only if someone i knew or myself was in great danger. that would be the only circumstance. Other that that, i would not kill. But, i would beat the living hell out of he who threatens my well being. Broken bones, that sort of thing. I won't settle for anything less than sending the intruder to the hospital. But, then again, if someone pushes us to the limit, we know not what we could do.

[Hapuka]

I was thinking about it, I believe that all people are equal, So if someone was trying to kill me and I killed them I would be as bad as that person. If I killed someone I couldn't live with myself and probably commit suicide. Thats just me. I don't know what it is like to take another human soul but I hope I will never ever come to that. I'm a Christian, I don't know what it says in the bible about taking another ones life under a self defense situation but I do know it says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Like Kenpo I would Beat the crap out of he/she so he/she couldn't kill me, But I wouldn't beat them till they were dead, I couldn't. I'm sorry but thats me.

[narcsarge]

Here's a question I've been seeing a lot of recently:

Could you cause harm to an individual, up to and including the use of lethal force resulting in the death of the individual, during the commission of your duties?

The answer is of course, yes, but I'm hoping I never have to prove it.

Welcome to the world of Law Enforcement! You will be asked this question and be put into situations that bring you right up to the edge of this precipice.

I answered Yes! But only if I had no other viable alternatives.

[Zeras]

If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?

Thats if they were putting up a fight.

For starters I would never kill a human, I would rather die.

So that would be a no.

But what is your view? What do you say?

true, I understand, when you are on the edge and you are about to face death, than you have to choice, remember martial arts, being a martial or following the law yes, you have to have judgement and you have to act and react fast because lives are in danger. I agree killing anyone or anything is wrong (except germs, with lysol).

[Lily]

I've never killed anything deliberately in my life (not even bugs, though the chicken was a total accident).

I don't know what I'm capable of as I've not been pressure tested outside, not had to fear for my life etc. So I can only say that it depends on the situation and as narc (hey baby!) says, if there is no other viable option.

[2E0WHN]

I've never killed anything deliberately in my life (not even bugs, though the chicken was a total accident).

I don't know what I'm capable of as I've not been pressure tested outside, not had to fear for my life etc. So I can only say that it depends on the situation and as narc (hey baby!) says, if there is no other viable option.

Kill or die trying. Personally it is a mater of what the situation is. To kill out of want is bad. If you have to kill to survive, tofu will not help you. Remember, we all live in a industry that provides banannas all year and they are no longer seasonal foods. We have stawberries in December. Get to a point where you need to live of the fat of the land, and your soya bean curd and tofu surprise will not help you.

There may be good ideals for killing. Food, self preservation, the ability to get home to your loved ones.... All take precidence if you have to kill. As Shihan Malmstrom said in 1999 at a seminar here in the UK "I would rather lie on the right side of the grass than under it in a graveyard. My daughter will not care if I am not there to walk her down the isle on her wedding day, for that is her day. I want to be there crying my eyes out in happiness, front row. So if it takes me to do the right thing, I will do that. I want to get home and be safe, and if it means I wake up next morning I know I have done so".

That was 8 years ago. It is still true today. People think to kill is bad. It depends on your point of view. Look at helecopter pilots and their technology. It is now like a war simulation on the X box. Are they real people? Do you care? They do. But only after they have talked about it (See the recently declassified film footage of the Gulf War friendly fire video. That will tell you what it is like to do something bad). But the rest of the time, they do not care. You do not have to. It is life and death, Yin Yang. Act then and worry later.

Can I kill? Sure. Can you kill? Sure. It is not a skill. Listen to what is said on here and then ask the question again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBpOXkghoYg

Listen to the last part. Will that thought change your view of the last answer to the question on the video?

[Lily]

Never said killing was bad...

[Mei Hua]

Can I kill? Sure. Can you kill? Sure. It is not a skill. Listen to what is said on here and then ask the question again:


I generally agree with what you say, except killing in most part is a skill, anyone can do it sloppy and bad, those that train to kill through high stress situations do it better, more efficiently and more effectively than joe schmoe with a pea shooter on the street popping caps at fools.


And I agree with Lily, she never said anything about not wanting to kill.

[Hapuka]

Kill or die trying. Personally it is a mater of what the situation is. To kill out of want is bad. If you have to kill to survive, tofu will not help you. Remember, we all live in a industry that provides banannas all year and they are no longer seasonal foods. We have stawberries in December. Get to a point where you need to live of the fat of the land, and your soya bean curd and tofu surprise will not help you.

There may be good ideals for killing. Food, self preservation, the ability to get home to your loved ones.... All take precidence if you have to kill. As Shihan Malmstrom said in 1999 at a seminar here in the UK "I would rather lie on the right side of the grass than under it in a graveyard. My daughter will not care if I am not there to walk her down the isle on her wedding day, for that is her day. I want to be there crying my eyes out in happiness, front row. So if it takes me to do the right thing, I will do that. I want to get home and be safe, and if it means I wake up next morning I know I have done so".

That was 8 years ago. It is still true today. People think to kill is bad. It depends on your point of view. Look at helecopter pilots and their technology. It is now like a war simulation on the X box. Are they real people? Do you care? They do. But only after they have talked about it (See the recently declassified film footage of the Gulf War friendly fire video. That will tell you what it is like to do something bad). But the rest of the time, they do not care. You do not have to. It is life and death, Yin Yang. Act then and worry later.

Can I kill? Sure. Can you kill? Sure. It is not a skill. Listen to what is said on here and then ask the question again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBpOXkghoYg

Listen to the last part. Will that thought change your view of the last answer to the question on the video?

I enjoyed watching that video, Thanks for posting it up.

[2E0WHN]

Never said killing was bad...

Never argued against you on that part.

[panguro3]

Yes. Without question.
I have a wife and two daughters whom I love, an ex wife who depends on me, and many friends who would miss me.
I would be willing to battle the demons that come later rather than succomb to the one trying to kill me now.

[Mark Cotton]

I have a girldriend and two sons. Those 2 sons have girlfriends. If we're out and someone attacks one of us, I'm sorry, but all bets are off. Either I'm going to get them or my sons. Oh, and son number one's girlfriend is more lethal than any of us.


None of us will stand around while someone elses life is in danger including our own.

[Sgt_Major]

If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?

I'd kill for a lot less than this!

[Mei Hua]

I'd kill for a lot less than this!

Amen

I'd snipe a dude if he didn't buy me a Jaguar

[Sgt_Major]

BWAHAHAHAHA!

Like I said, as soon as my wish comes true, its yours bro :p

[narcsarge]

I'd kill for a lot less than this!


Ok, between Sgt, Mei, and myself, we have 3 members. Who do we add to finish the A-team?

[Mei Hua]

Ok, between Sgt, Mei, and myself, we have 3 members. Who do we add to finish the A-team?
We need a crazy heli pilot.


Nordic?

[narcsarge]

He's crazy all right but I not so sure I want him piloting a row boat. Let's not mention heli's to him! Oh, maybe "Carolina Yard Darts" are his thing (think Harrier Jump Jet)...

[Sukerkin]

In my younger days I would've answered "Yes" to this question but age has added a little wisdom along with the grey hairs and my opinion has changed, so I'm a "No" voter these days.

It's an interesting connundrum tho' and I don't have the time to put forward my arguments, so to speak, right now as I'm on the wage-slave treadmill. Hopefully I can get back to this thread and edit in some thoughts later.

[Sgt_Major]

Ok, between Sgt, Mei, and myself, we have 3 members. Who do we add to finish the A-team?


We'd have to be the B-Team - cos the A-Team never killed anyone :p

[karate princess]

I voted oui. If someone was trying to kill me, I would kill them first....but then I'd feel rather guilty.

[Mei Hua]

We'd have to be the B-Team - cos the A-Team never killed anyone :p

Na, we'll just ambush them and force a title trade, they'll be the B-Team, we're second best to none ;)

[Sgt_Major]

LOL!

Sounds good to me ... I'll take BA

[Mei Hua]

LOL!

Sounds good to me ... I'll take BA

LOL

[neo_havik]

Well, I would at least break his arm, or dislocate something. To die for humanity.... hmmmmm....lets see...NO!!!

[Dr.Syn]

A decision that every LEO might have to make at some point in his/her career..As for myself, I'm going home at the end of my shift...

[narcsarge]

A decision that every LEO might have to make at some point in his/her career..As for myself, I'm going home at the end of my shift...

A well trained LEO Dr. Syn! I go home every night if I have anything to say about it. I may stop off at the hospital first, but eventually, I will be home!

[acrux]

Only in self defence with no way to escape or in protection of loved ones

[CrowZer0]

Millions if not billions have taken a life before, it seems like an interesting self learning experience, if I had a "justified" opportunity I would take it. It's the way of the world, we kill each other, let’s not get all civilised about it:P

[AllieB]

we are animals weather we admit it or not, but some are also christians so i dont know which instinct to follow

[CrowZer0]

we are animals weather we admit it or not, but some are also christians so i dont know which instinct to follow

Christians are an instinct? That's a new one for me, care to explain?

[TheCount]

I wouldn't intentionally kill anyone I dont think

[Towely]

Yes, being that im enlisting in the Marines I better damn well say yes to that or im going into the wrong business... :woo:

edit: though if he backed off long enough I would try my best to run away...no way would I kill anyone unless it was them or me(well, on a street that is. On a battlefield that rule doesn't apply anymore).

[Hapuka]

we are animals weather we admit it or not, but some are also christians so i dont know which instinct to follow


Haha i love that. Thats great. :D

[JHughes]

generally if you kill someone you get put into prison for the rest of life.

[Mei Hua]

Not in self defense

[Future_UFC_Cham]

I THINK I would kill someone...that is, if THEY were trying to kill me. If they intend on killing me, wats gonna stop them from killing my family, friends, neighbors, or any other innocent person? Yeah, I WOULD kill someone if not to protect myself, than to protect my family and those around me. I would just as soon die for them, but I would not make any sacrifices that would go in vain.

[Uke Andy]

I'm not a victim and I would do what it takes to stop him/them. We are all martial artists here,and anyone that said NO is a victim. I'm sorry if this upsets some people but it is the truth. That person was going to do it to me. He started it, I'll finish it! I wouldn't allow them to control me. I would die trying with my head held high.

[CrowZer0]

If someone was trying to kill me or someone I cared for, then that someone deserves to die, they have forfitted their right to live in my eyes when they decide to take the life of someone else for meager causes. Thats just me;)

[Johnno]

If someone was trying to kill me or someone I cared for, then that someone deserves to die, they have forfitted their right to live in my eyes when they decide to take the life of someone else for meager causes. Thats just me;)You're making the assumption that it's a "meager cause", but what if they had a very good reason for killing you? :confused:

[CrowZer0]

You're making the assumption that it's a "meager cause", but what if they had a very good reason for killing you? :confused:

Depends on your perception of "good" if I killed his brother or something and he came after me, it would depend on why I killed his brother, what I meant by my previous message was that in some cases there are justifiable reasons for killing one. But if someone comes after me, it would depend on this "very good" reason you speak of. Different situations call for different reactions. In any case even if his/her reason was very good. I would probably try to defend myself by trying to avoid killing them if possible. But if I didn't agree then I would try to kill them first.

[Johnno]

Depends on your perception of "good" if I killed his brother or something and he came after me, it would depend on why I killed his brother, what I meant by my previous message was that in some cases there are justifiable reasons for killing one. But if someone comes after me, it would depend on this "very good" reason you speak of. Different situations call for different reactions. In any case even if his/her reason was very good. I would probably try to defend myself by trying to avoid killing them if possible. But if I didn't agree then I would try to kill them first.Agreed. But if there was a really GOOD reason for killing you, like for medical research so that millions of others might live, then I would hope that you'd not be so selfish as to resist.

[angacam]

Sorry Johnno but, I guess I am selfish. I do not care what reason someone has for wanting to kill me. They try, they die. It is just that simple. There is no way that anyone can say that there reason to kill me would be more valid than my own will to live.

Second point: A lot of you are talking about, If they are really trying to kill me then I would go all out. How in the hell are you going to judge this until it is too late. IMHO, if someone comes after me on the street, in a dark alley, breaking in to my home, or whatever it becomes a matter of survival to assume they are trying to kill me. To think anything else may be a mistake that could cost me my life by causingh me to not fight back to my fullest.

Please make no mistake, I am not a violent man by nature, I go out of my way to avoid conflict, to prevent trouble, BUT, I do reserve the right to fight with those who would fight with me and when I do fight it will be to thge fullest of my abilities.
"There are times when words are not enough, at those times action is our only recourse!"

[CrowZer0]

Agreed. But if there was a really GOOD reason for killing you, like for medical research so that millions of others might live, then I would hope that you'd not be so selfish as to resist.

I would resist I don't believe in the killing of one innocent to save millions.

[Mei Hua]

The good of the many outweighs the good of the few

[Johnno]

The good of the many outweighs the good of the fewExactly. :)

[bcullen]

The good of the many outweighs the good of the few

Could someone please explain this concept to the politicians of the world? ;)

[Mei Hua]

Could someone please explain this concept to the politicians of the world? ;)

Well, to the political view it sums up what's good for just me means it is also good for you, even if it's not I'll sell it to you so that you believe it is.

[CrowZer0]

The good of the many outweighs the good of the few

Tyranny of the minority.

[Mei Hua]

Tyranny of the minority.

Actually if your death would cure thousands/millions of people from a terminal/chronic disease, then your witholding it would be tyranny and grievous maliciousness, I could never be so evil and heartless as to let uncounted people die an agonizing death knowing I was the cure for their salvation.

[angacam]

Of course this line of thought is going a bit off of the original question and is vering into the hypothetical realm of would you sacrifice yourself for the good of humanity? Not, would you kill somone who was attacking you with bad intentions? Which, I belive was the original topic.

The very fact that one is willing to die to protect his or her family, country, or whatever you believe in says that this type of sacrifice would be made. Particularly from a combat vet like Mei who has already proven he is willing to give his own life for ours. I served as well, a little before your time Mei,
as you were only 8 when I joined up before the first Gulf war and in these situations yes I would give my own life for my countries and for those I loved.

But, as far as the original question goes: See my previous posts.

[CrowZer0]

Actually if your death would cure thousands/millions of people from a terminal/chronic disease, then your witholding it would be tyranny and grievous maliciousness, I could never be so evil and heartless as to let uncounted people die an agonizing death knowing I was the cure for their salvation.

If we are going to play this game we can go ahead and make up some more hypothetical stories, I don't mind playing hero, I would gladly die for loved ones family and friends, for strangers? No thanks I don't know these stranger and I don't know what they are capable of, these people I'm saving could be pottential murderers, rapists, terrorists. I'm not going to stupidly sacrifice myself "to let uncounted people" live without knowing who they are.

[Light123]

My answer is no. My love for even my enemies does not allow me to kill. My obedience to the Word prevents it even more. So, I would just knock out my enemty and call the cops.

[nightshade]

i would kill. im tempted to already. in a life or death situation i would kill because i must. but i will always remeber the 5 fold way of the warrior.

advoid before check, check before hurt, hurt before maim, maim before kill, for all life is precious and none can be replaced.

but if some one attacked me they would wake up in the hosptial if they ever woke again

[CrowZer0]

i would kill. im tempted to already. in a life or death situation i would kill because i must. but i will always remeber the 5 fold way of the warrior.

advoid before check, check before hurt, hurt before maim, maim before kill, for all life is precious and none can be replaced.

but if some one attacked me they would wake up in the hosptial if they ever woke again

Could you elaborate more on the 5 fold way of the warrior? I like it sounds similar to my, if they punch me, i will punch them twice, if they fracture my elbow i will break their arm, if they break my arm I will break their legs, if they stab me, i will chop them up, if they kill me, i will come back and haunt them forever:P

[Light123]

The movies... :o

[Myst Kitty]

I would kill if necessary.

[Taekwondomaster]

Yep, already have. intresting I would like you to PM the details.B.t.w I would not kill someone unless lives depended on it though if someone attacked me I might break their spine and if they got me from behind I might twist their neck until their spine breaks

[tekkengod]

intresting I would like you to PM the details

hes in the military. :rolleyes:

[Johnno]

hes in the military. :rolleyes:Ex-military. He said that he runs his own business now.

[TeamAmerica]

Of Course. I seek to join the military after HS and that is gonna be what I am doing over in Iraq.

[jujitsuka07]

I voted "Yes", but that is not a hard-and-fast "Yes" in every situation. I would hope if the situation arose were I persecuted, I would be able to die for my faith instead of fighting back. I have deep reservations about the taking of life.

Killing a person to save someone else wouldn't be as hard though. What does everyone feel about that? (the previous sentance)

[angacam]

Why would you kill to defend another but not kill to defend yourself?

Does your life have less value than that which you might save?

If you die by an attack today, one that you could have prevented by fighting back, what happens tommorrow when the individual who killed you goes after a loved one whom you could have defended? (if you had fought for yourself yesterday)

[Sonshu]

If I had no other option I would yes to ensure protection of myself and others.

I am well aware of the psychological issues that many people feel they would but would not be able to when it came to the crunch. I am fully aware that I could if needed.

The one worry would be if I ever killed someone as an accident that I think being the person I am I would not want to live with on my mind.

[jujitsuka07]

Why would you kill to defend another but not kill to defend yourself?

Does your life have less value than that which you might save?

If you die by an attack today, one that you could have prevented by fighting back, what happens tommorrow when the individual who killed you goes after a loved one whom you could have defended? (if you had fought for yourself yesterday)

It's not that I wouldn't kill to save myself...I would just have a harder time doing it I think. And yes, we do have to think about future things. If we didn't save ourself, and someone needed us to save them tomorrow, would we be accountable for them also? These are some of the things that we have to consider.

[Moi]

Did you have anyone in mind?

[angacam]

Did who have anyone in mind?
In mind for what? To kill or to save.

[Moi]

Did who have anyone in mind?
In mind for what? To kill or to save.

Not wanting an accomplice then? My mistake.

[angacam]

Not wanting an accomplice then? My mistake.
Sorry I am just not clear on exactly what you are asking or who you were directing the question to.

[Moi]

Hapuka, she asked the original question. I was going to borrow some of your toys.

[angacam]

cool, I have been on a posting roll today and have now gotten a little foggy. LOL

[Athleng Nordic]

I've killed, nuff said.

[jamie1976]

i would definatly i have a family and i care about them more than the idiot that welds a knife on me if he/she has the guts to pull a knife out then they have to take the conciquences either way weather its me killing them or them killing me and going to prison or feeling that guilt for ever.
better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6 i say!

jamie

[Nightblade]

My first thought when asked this question, is yes, I would kill if I had to. But realistically, I could never watch the life fading from someone's eyes; feel their body go limp in my hands or see their blood splatter and seep across the floor knowing that I spilled that blood. I've never been in a life or death situation so I don't know what it's like. The most violence I've ever seen outside my dojang is two guys grappling on the floor near a bathroom at my school. I mean, yeah, people have gotten in my face a couple times but both on both occassions (thank God) it never escalated beyond that. I've had a very sheltered life so I'm not an aggressive person by nature. If I was faced with one moment where I could decide to preserve a life or take it, I don't think I could bring myself to kill.

Nightblade

[Trampler]

Im such a nice guy, but why not?? :o

NO! For humanity?? What does that mean?? Imagine all those evil bad guys with knives kill all those nice all guys who care...for that humanity?? :D

I say yes, kill thee for thy life for christ sakes (this is for all those jezus's believers, so they could try to preserve meaning of his death, which i dont understand anyway :o )

No hard feelings! :)

[Moosey]

My priority would be to knock the person out or put them in a state where they weren't a danger to me and I could do a runner. If they happened to die in the process, I wouldn't shed any tears, but I wouldn't deliberately be carrying out actions designed to kill. I'd be punching, shoving, kicking, kneeing, elbowing, whatever it would take, but I wouldn't try and strangle, garrotte or neck-crank anyone or continue hitting then after they were clearly incapacitated.

[Proeliator]

Once someone attempts to impose their will upon you in an attempt to take away your life they in my opinion officially waive their right to live right then and there. If they are trying to KILL you they are not just taking your life, they are taking you away from your spouse, your mother, your father, your siblings, your children, and anyone else that may have loved you. Free will is one of the greatest things we have, use it wrongly and there should be major and even fatal consequences.

[mlan]

A very good point and I would have to agree with that

[Kralk]

In the case the original poster put fowards, I wouldn't hesitate to kill them, if I got the chance, any one who wouldn't kill them is an idiot or wants to die.

[Kurtka Jerker]

Thinking about it in a chair here, if someone is willing to kill another person or cause enough trouble to people that he might as well have, sure. I'd be happy to. I think the real question is more along the lines of whether one could, without hesitation, make that decision and be sure enough to feel comfortable taking a life. I personally have no idea if I could myself.

[brabus]

If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?


I voted NO as I personally would simply prefer if I disabled him. I value life and would personally hope that disabling him somehow would cause him to rethink his action. Of course I couldn't imagine someone being angry enough at me to even want to think of killing me.

[SifuJason]

If he is trying to take my life, I will do whatever is necessary to defend myself. If that means lethal force is the most efficient route, so be it. If not, that's great, but I won't hesitate in my response (to avoid lethal force) and end up dead as a result.

[Martialist4hire]

From looking at the results of this unofficial poll, it would appear that the majority of us are very willing to kill a man in a fight. The question is, has anyone ever actually killed a person in such a confrontation? Does anyone know how to kill another person? Has anyone here ever trained to kill another person? Knocking somebody out or forcing a submission is one thing, but to actually kill them? It's much harder than it seems.

At least, thats what I've heard. :D :D

[mlan]

It's not easy, and the first time you feel like a part of you has died, IMO, but in those types of situations it's either kill or be killed, it's your choice how you want that to turn out.
I prefer life

[SifuJason]

From looking at the results of this unofficial poll, it would appear that the majority of us are very willing to kill a man in a fight. The question is, has anyone ever actually killed a person in such a confrontation? Does anyone know how to kill another person? Has anyone here ever trained to kill another person? Knocking somebody out or forcing a submission is one thing, but to actually kill them? It's much harder than it seems.

At least, thats what I've heard. :D :D

I haven't killed anyone, but some of my fellow black belts have--all in war scenarios (or bodyguarding?) to my knowledge. But we definitely train to kill in the art--not exclusively of course. One needs to know to how to negotiate, control (submit), KO, break, and kill someone.

[Kralk]

From looking at the results of this unofficial poll, it would appear that the majority of us are very willing to kill a man in a fight. The question is, has anyone ever actually killed a person in such a confrontation? Does anyone know how to kill another person? Has anyone here ever trained to kill another person? Knocking somebody out or forcing a submission is one thing, but to actually kill them? It's much harder than it seems.

At least, thats what I've heard. :D :D


How is killing people hard, people die all the time accidently in drunken brawls ect. Your born with the knoweldge of how to kill people, we have been killing people since we were monkey's and we didn't have MA back then. Besides I've got a big ****ing club in my bedroom, so killing for me would be easy.

[mlan]

Have you though?

[SifuJason]

No, and I hope I never do.

As for the ease factor--humans are pretty easy to kill. Not as easy as many people think, but it's really not that hard. Hit someone hard enough to cause internal bleeding, and they will die without medical care.

[bcullen]

How is killing people hard, people die all the time accidently in drunken brawls ect. Your born with the knoweldge of how to kill people, we have been killing people since we were monkey's and we didn't have MA back then. Besides I've got a big ****ing club in my bedroom, so killing for me would be easy.

I don't think that's what he is after. He is going after the repercussions of taking a life and how many people are prepared to deal with that aspect.

[BentMonk]

"Avoid rather than check.
Check rather than hurt.
Hurt rather than maim.
Maim rather than kill for all life is precious, and none can be replaced."

I voted yes. I value life enough to protect and defend it against those who attempt to take it from me or anyone I love. I hope I can protect it without killing, but if the other person puts it in life or death terms I will do what I must to survive or save my loved one.

[SifuJason]

"Avoid rather than check.
Check rather than hurt.
Hurt rather than maim.
Maim rather than kill for all life is precious, and none can be replaced."

I voted yes. I value life enough to protect and defend it against those who attempt to take it from me or anyone I love. I hope I can protect it without killing, but if the other person puts it in life or death terms I will do what I must to survive or save my loved one.


I love that creed, and personally live by it. I believe it is Shaolin in origin?

[Lily]

We're capable of anything if the situation warrants it.

[Scarlet Mist]

Yeah. I think I could put four or five in someone if I felt threatened.

[Lily]

*high fives Scarlet* You're so in my gang :D

[mlan]

Talk is big, have you ever done it?

[Lily]

Mikey, we're playing :) Sowwy!

Don't set your chickens on me!!

[mlan]

Yes, it's funny to play about killing people and death, how poor sport of me

[Lily]

Mikey, I'm sorry.

Just commenting on SifuJason's post saying he'd never kill, how is anyone to know what they're capable of given the situation? That's all I meant, excuse the tasteless joke.

[bmcgonag]

If someone is threatening to kill me or any other innocent, and I believe the threat to be real I would absolutely kill them without hesitation, and don't think I would feel to badly about it.

When it'e me or them, I will choose me, with the exception of me or my wife...assuming she's not the one trying to kill me. ;)

Brian

[SifuJason]

Mikey, I'm sorry.

Just commenting on SifuJason's post saying he'd never kill, how is anyone to know what they're capable of given the situation? That's all I meant, excuse the tasteless joke.

Meh? Actually I said I would kill if I felt my life was threatened...

[feijao_cbla]

:cry:

It almost hurts me to know that I voted yes and I know it is true. I have a wife and two kids and I live for them. If someone was to threaten my life I would take em' out no question. :woo: :woo: :woo:

I love my family and a threat to me is a threat to them.

Of course if there is another way to stop them I will try that route first. I'm in the business of saving souls not sending them away. :Angel:

-peace

[Incredible Bulk]

act first think later....

[wayne649]

if i had to i think i would kill 2 servive, but its impossible to no unless your in that situation (hopefully ill never have to find out)

i think it would also be easier to kill if it was more than your own life at stake

[Vazula]

If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?

Thats if they were putting up a fight.

For starters I would never kill a human, I would rather die.

So that would be a no.

But what is your view? What do you say?

Does the phrase "in a New York F%^*ING MINUTE" mean anything to you? I love my family WAAAYY too much not to do everything in my power to go home to them. If it is my time it is my time, but they are DAMN sure gonna have to WORK for it!!!

[Shadow_of_Evil]

But once you do take someones life you too can look forward to any combination of broken sleep, violent dreams, binge drinking, depression and aggresive or irational behaviours. Big boys games, big boys rules, big boys stakes.

Wise words.
I havn't taken a human life but I've seen it taken on several occasions. Never a pretty thing. Although aprehensive about taking another human life (a couple of my Army mates have had real problems since they've done it) there are a couple of people that have done things to my family that I would definately kill if I knew 100% I would get away with it.

So yes, if someone attacked me with a knife I'd slot them. If if was someone I really hated he probably wouldn't even need the knife.

[Polar Bear]

But once you do take someones life you too can look forward to any combination of broken sleep, violent dreams, binge drinking, depression and aggresive or irational behaviours. Big boys games, big boys rules, big boys stakes.



You have to be psychologically prepared to kill. In a society where we are told daily that killing is wrong, when we have to kill it causes major damage to that person. If you are taught from birth that it is ok to kill in defence of X then the damage to the psyche is much less.
It is why in modern armies they use certain pressures to induce a level of psychosis to allow soldiers to break the conditioning. However when those poor guys come home they tend to be in a poor mental state and the army dumps them on to the street.
It is also why you see street gangs bragging about killing with no appearance of guilt, it isn't that they are evil, it is simply they have been conditioned from a young age that this behaviour is ok and the group reinforces this after the act. Perversely enough the murderer is less psychologically damaged.
Personally if I can get through life without having to kill someone I will be a happy man but that is a long way from not being prepared to do so.

The Bear.

[pj_goober]

If someone were trying to kill me with a knife i would be concentrating on not dying. If that meant he died as a result of my actions so be it. I wouldn't be trying to kill him, i would be trying to not die.

[Highland Ninja]

I find it disturbing to hear people saying that if they had to take a life they would commit suicide from the guilt. If that's the case, either get therapy (in all seriousness), or give up the martial arts and become a pacifist. Because it makes no sense to study combat if you don't have the heart to kill if need be.

I also find it both disturbing and confusing when I hear people say "all people are equal and I could never kill anyone", because that's simply not true. Everyone is not "equal". I'm a good person. I bring happiness and goodness to my family, friends, and neighbors. The world is a better place because I walk the earth. And I don't mean that in an egotistical sense. Ask anyone who knows me and they'd agree. It's a statement of fact. Some scumbag criminal or gangbanger whose only concern is his own self-centered thrills is not my equal, not in any way. People like that bring nothing but pain, misery, death, and destruction to mankind. Anyone who would kill an old lady so that they can grab her cash and go get high deserves to be wiped off the earth, period. They're nothing but walking cancers.

I have a question for those who claim they would rather die than take a life or that they would commit suicide if they were ever forced to kill in self defense. Is your life truly that worthless? Do you truly care so little for the happiness and well-being of your family? Because saying such a thing indicates that you consider the life of a destructive human cancer to be more valuable than the lives of you, your family, and your friends. In fact, I would not want to be friends with someone who felt that way, nor related to anyone who felt that way.

If we extropolate attitude that onto a national level, we'd have a society that refuses to protect itself, and that civilization would begin to die. Oh wait, we're seeing that right now! :rolleyes:

Yes, if the situation happens where it's me or him, then I'm going to be the one who goes home tonight. The other guy? His carcass can rot in the alley for all I care. And no, I won't be having disturbing dreams or guilt over it. If a person puts himself in a position where I find myself having to kill him (or even unintentionally killing him in self defense), that's their problem, not mine. I wasn't the one who instigated it.

Will I feel sorry for his wife, mother, kids (if he has any)? Sure. I'll say "It's too bad their scumbag husband/son/father had to go do something stupid and get himself killed". I'll have sympathy for them (assuming it wasn't a case of bad parents raising a bad kid). But guilt? No. It's always a shame to have to take a life, but that's the world we live in. Always has been, always will be. We will always have predatory scum who will kill for a pack of cigarettes. We will always have people who think so little of themselves that they consider their own lives less valuable than a pack of cigarettes. And we will always have warriors with the strength of spirit to excise human cancers when we encounter them. I'll close with a very inspiring quote:

"Let him cut your skin, and you cut his flesh. Let him cut your flesh, and you cut his bones. Let him cut your bones, and you cut off his life."


- Takamatsu

[fighting13]

would kill them in an instant and without hesitation or regret. not sure why, but i would have no problem killing another human being if he threatened me or anyone i care about.

[jonsey80]

its hard to know how you would react until your in that situation, but judging from how i feel about it now both emotionaly an moraly..i would gladly kill any one who wants to take my life, the second he pulls out that knife he has escalated the situation and quite clearly states

"i want you dead"

and in that case, im more than happy to see him dead.

But having said that..until it happens you never know how you would react.

[Shadow_of_Evil]

I wouldn't be trying to kill him

I would. It'll stop him/her from ever having another chance at trying to get you.
Heck, I'd probably chase the bugger if he did a runner.

[SteelyPhil]

I'd certainly aim to kill him until i gained enough control to aptly control the situation. As far as the initial attack went i'd have his death on my mind (not saying i could do it but i'd definetly try).

[Bobyclumsyninja]

There are a lot of things I would do to stay alive and well, but it would take a very stacked deck, to push me to that. Short of dire, no choice situations, common to comic books, and teenage imaginations, I wouldn't ever try to take a life...and wouldn't allow somebody in my company to take one. I don't see what it could accomplish, that them being knocked out, or restrained couldn't.

I'm living in Boston, a violent little city, I live across from the projects, in a fairly poor part of the city (expensive by most of the country's standards, but cheap for Boston, cost of living is horrible here, worst in the USA), and it's not exactly tame over here. There are too many murders for a city this small, and many of them happen as revenge killings for earlier assaults/murders/skirmishes. No one wins when someone is killed, and it rarely ends there.

Everyone's life circumstances are different, and I'm not telling anyone how to live, just explaining how I perceive things. Some people's careers bring them into circumstances most of us dread, and they may need a different mindset.

[MatsunoCj]

I'd certainly aim to kill him until i gained enough control to aptly control the situation. As far as the initial attack went i'd have his death on my mind (not saying i could do it but i'd definetly try).

i think he said it the best, if i knew the other person was trying to kill me or someone i cared about then i would respond with the intent to kill if i thought it was them or me, if i ended up with then pinned or something where i didnt need to go any further then great and it would end there but if not then id do whatever i had to

[Stuart H]

If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?

Thats if they were putting up a fight.

For starters I would never kill a human, I would rather die.

So that would be a no.

But what is your view? What do you say?

You'd rather allow someone to kill you? What's wrong with you?!

[Moi]

You'd rather allow someone to kill you? What's wrong with you?!

She's young, idealistic and has proberly never been in a life and death situation.

[koyo]

The choice won't be yours you'll either do nothing or whatever it takes.


regards koyo

[Vulture]

In a life or death situation I would certainly attempt to keep myself alive. I think as animals our survival instinct would mean most people would, assuming they didn't freeze of course. Now weather or not the response that came out in a panic situation would be of any use, or just end up with me bleeding something rotten is another matter entirely.

[BentMonk]

If life is as precious as we say, then it is our duty to defend it to the last. When someone sets out to take a life, they set in motion events that could lead to the loss of their own life. In defense of my own life I will return my attacker's force to them. If this results in their death I will be saddened because all life is precious. I would not allow their death to assume control of my life. That would be the same as letting them kill me. They were the victim of their actions, my actions were just the instruments of consequence.

[Moi]

If life is as precious as we say, then it is our duty to defend it to the last. When someone sets out to take a life, they set in motion events that could lead to the loss of their own life. In defense of my own life I will return my attacker's force to them. If this results in their death I will be saddened because all life is precious. I would not allow their death to assume control of my life. That would be the same as letting them kill me. They were the victim of their actions, my actions were just the instruments of consequence.

I'd say all life has the ability to be precious, there's some people out there that if they died the world would be a better place. Should the rights of one one person go against the greater good of humanity?

[Arnoo]

If someone where to threaten me or my loved ones with deadly force i'l happily kill them. And on the discussion of the bad sleeping etc etc afterwards that is something you cant say on beforehand everyone reacts totally different to it some can move on within a week some will be haunted by it for the rest of there lives. An example is the soldiers who come back from the warzone's from a group of 10 soldiers who have all experienced excatly the same some come back completly broken and damaged for the rest of there lives, others come back with relativ ease and are able to move on within 2 weeks. It has nothing to do with the person itself in some cases it has been excatly the opposite the "thoughest" guy of the group comes back completley broken while the fragile guy can move on. What is causing these difference i dont know maybe genetics or whatever.

I dont think all human life is precious i even think that if the baddest 10% of the world would die it would be a much better place. For exapmle the Kim leaders of north korea how can one ever say that there live is precious in any way.

[BentMonk]

IMO it is not for us to judge who is good, who is bad, who lives, who dies. It's all about balance. You can't have light without dark, good without evil, etc. I feel that if someone who tries to kill you ends up dying because you defended yourself, that's what they get for trying to kill you. If you've subdued the guy and then kill him because you think he deserves to die, that's your bad karma.

[JKS]

Don't get me wrong if someone was trying to kill me then survival mode would take over.

Killing another person even if they are trying to kill you I think should the the ultimate last resort.

There are many ways of disabling an attacker without killing.

[Stuart H]

There are many ways of disabling an attacker without killing.True, also it's actually really hard to kill someone.

[Arnoo]

True, also it's actually really hard to kill someone.

if you got enough time then its physicly pretty easy tbh:rolleyes:

[JKS]

True, also it's actually really hard to kill someone.

Hey Welsh Warrior, where are you from, I am from The Rhondda Valleys, South Wales.

[Light123]

[incomplete]

[Light123]

I wouldn't kill anyone. I prefer weapons that have less of achance of killing an attacker.

"You shall not murder." Exodus 20:13

"And whoever kills an animal shall restore it; but whoever kills a man shall be put to death." Leviticus 24:21

Every effort should be made so killing can be avoided.

"28 “If an ox gores a man or a woman to death, then the ox shall surely be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be acquitted. 29 But if the ox tended to thrust with its horn in times past, and it has been made known to his owner, and he has not kept it confined, so that it has killed a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If there is imposed on him a sum of money, then he shall pay to redeem his life, whatever is imposed on him. 31 Whether it has gored a son or gored a daughter, according to this judgment it shall be done to him." Exodus 21:28-31
This may be about an animal, but if we know have a friend or whatever and we know abouthis/her murderous intent, we should do something about it. For your sake and the sake of ourfriend.

There is a difference between killing and accidentally killing someone.


"15 These six cities shall be for refuge for the children of Israel, for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them, that anyone who kills a person accidentally may flee there.
16 ‘But if he strikes him with an iron implement, so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 17 And if he strikes him with a stone in the hand, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 18 Or if he strikes him with a wooden hand weapon, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 19 The avenger of blood himself shall put the murderer to death; when he meets him, he shall put him to death. 20 If he pushes him out of hatred or, while lying in wait, hurls something at him so that he dies, 21 or in enmity he strikes him with his hand so that he dies, the one who struck him shall surely be put to death. He is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when he meets him.
22 ‘However, if he pushes him suddenly without enmity, or throws anything at him without lying in wait, 23 or uses a stone, by which a man could die, throwing it at him without seeing him, so that he dies, while he was not his enemy or seeking his harm, 24 then the congregation shall judge between the manslayer and the avenger of blood according to these judgments. 25 So the congregation shall deliver the manslayer from the hand of the avenger of blood, and the congregation shall return him to the city of refuge where he had fled, and he shall remain there until the death of the high priest who was anointed with the holy oil." Numbers 35:15-25

"2 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft." Exodus 22:2-3

[Moi]

True, also it's actually really hard to kill someone.

Not

[Stuart H]

if you got enough time then its physicly pretty easy tbh:rolleyes:

Not with your bare hands.

[Stuart H]

I wouldn't kill anyone. I prefer weapons that have less of achance of killing an attacker.

"You shall not murder." Exodus 20:13

"And whoever kills an animal shall restore it; but whoever kills a man shall be put to death." Leviticus 24:21

Every effort should be made so killing can be avoided.

"28 “If an ox gores a man or a woman to death, then the ox shall surely be stoned, and its flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be acquitted. 29 But if the ox tended to thrust with its horn in times past, and it has been made known to his owner, and he has not kept it confined, so that it has killed a man or a woman, the ox shall be stoned and its owner also shall be put to death. 30 If there is imposed on him a sum of money, then he shall pay to redeem his life, whatever is imposed on him. 31 Whether it has gored a son or gored a daughter, according to this judgment it shall be done to him." Exodus 21:28-31
This may be about an animal, but if we know have a friend or whatever and we know abouthis/her murderous intent, we should do something about it. For your sake and the sake of ourfriend.

There is a difference between killing and accidentally killing someone.


"15 These six cities shall be for refuge for the children of Israel, for the stranger, and for the sojourner among them, that anyone who kills a person accidentally may flee there.
16 ‘But if he strikes him with an iron implement, so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 17 And if he strikes him with a stone in the hand, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 18 Or if he strikes him with a wooden hand weapon, by which one could die, and he does die, he is a murderer; the murderer shall surely be put to death. 19 The avenger of blood himself shall put the murderer to death; when he meets him, he shall put him to death. 20 If he pushes him out of hatred or, while lying in wait, hurls something at him so that he dies, 21 or in enmity he strikes him with his hand so that he dies, the one who struck him shall surely be put to death. He is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death when he meets him.
22 ‘However, if he pushes him suddenly without enmity, or throws anything at him without lying in wait, 23 or uses a stone, by which a man could die, throwing it at him without seeing him, so that he dies, while he was not his enemy or seeking his harm, 24 then the congregation shall judge between the manslayer and the avenger of blood according to these judgments. 25 So the congregation shall deliver the manslayer from the hand of the avenger of blood, and the congregation shall return him to the city of refuge where he had fled, and he shall remain there until the death of the high priest who was anointed with the holy oil." Numbers 35:15-25

"2 If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. 3 If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft." Exodus 22:2-3

What if it's the only thing that stops them from killing you?

Christian huh - don't suppose you think anything of the apostles carrying swords, or Jesus telling people to buy a sowrd if they didn't have one.

[Moi]

Not with your bare hands.

If it was that difficult there wouldn't be so many ordinary guys serving life for murder. People just need the right motivation at the wrong time and a little bit of bad luck. I would think most murderers are normal people that have been pushed a bit too far. That's why it's the armed robbers who run the prisons and not the murderers, they're just normal folk.

[L3vity]

My philosophy: If somebody is trying to kill me, I will do everything I can to prevent them from doing so. If this means kill them, so be it.

I figure it this way: As far as I know, I will only kill in self defense. As far as I know, the attacker will kill for reasons other than self-defense. I don't know that there is anything to stop them from killing or harming another person after me. Therefore, if I must, I will kill this one person to prevent the death of me and another.

[Arnoo]

Not with your bare hands.

no its really easy you just keep hitting even after the guy is down, till he stops breathing every retard can do it.:rolleyes:

[piratebrido]

Never had anyone try to knife me in my adult life so I dunno. I doubt I would think "I'm going to kill you" and murder them though.

[Lazarus-USMC]

Like some of the others here, I have already killed. It's very easy to do and if you have to think about whether you can or will kill an attacker, then you've already lost. However, killing is something that you carry with you for the rest of your life. And with that said, I'd kill again in a heartbeat if it was necessary. Key phrase there - if it was necessary.

The example isn't sufficient for a black or white answer. We have skills, varying levels of course, but most of us can do serious damage.

So, would I kill? If I had to, yes. But you better make up your mind now whether you would or not because if you're faced with that knife or gun, you don't have time to think - only react.

It's a little strange though, because in that fraction of a second, you reason out the whole situation and make your decision. Disable or kill or run away.

[Hiroji]

If my God told me to kill everyone, i would....

[Light123]

What if it's the only thing that stops them from killing you?

Christian huh - don't suppose you think anything of the apostles carrying swords, or Jesus telling people to buy a sowrd if they didn't have one.Yes, the Apostles, but Jesus didn't tell them to go buy one.

"And Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. So Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?" " John 18:10-11

IMO, if my life were to be threatened, there should always be a way out without killing. Areal life situation isn't a movie.

[Stuart H]

no its really easy you just keep hitting even after the guy is down, till he stops breathing every retard can do it.:rolleyes:

And you're speaking from experience right? No? Then how would you know that you're capable of doing it? We have one military man that's posted on the thread, and I'd bet he's therefore the only one who KNOWS he's capable of killing, simply because he's the only one who's ever had to do it.

[Moi]

This is an old thread, there's several people that have posted here have proberly killed.

[bcullen]

This is an old thread, there's several people that have posted here have proberly killed.

...a few have as a result of reading this thread. There's an hour you'll never get back. :D

BTW what are we talking about here: Self-defense, pre-meditated murder, crime of passion, enemy combatants, for grins and giggles, negligent homicide/manslaughter?

[Moi]

...

BTW what are we talking about here: Self-defense, pre-meditated murder, crime of passion, enemy combatants, for grins and giggles, negligent homicide/manslaughter?

I think a pole is in order, that's a good list.

Would you kill for.........

[Arnoo]

And you're speaking from experience right? No? Then how would you know that you're capable of doing it? We have one military man that's posted on the thread, and I'd bet he's therefore the only one who KNOWS he's capable of killing, simply because he's the only one who's ever had to do it.

Dude read before posting. I never said i was capable of killing although with the right motives i certainly would be willing to. But killing itself the physichal art is pretty easy that is what i'm saying :rolleyes:.

[GojuKJoe]

I think in that knife attacker situation, I'd just try my hardest to incapacitate them and I wouldn't hold back out of fear of killing them. I don't think I could actually set out specifically to kill them. I think if I did kill someone it would affect me very badly, so I hope I never have to find out.

But then, I've never been in that situation before, and for all I know I might just clam up and get stabbed.

Like I said, I'd rather just not find out.

[Lazarus-USMC]

I think the theme of the original thread has been misunderstood by some of us.

"If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?

Thats if they were putting up a fight."

The first sentence is "trying to kill you" and the second sentence "if they were putting up a fight". OK, if they're trying to kill you they're already putting up a fight. I assumed it was a case of them (the attacker with a knife) assaulting me.

If we look at this theme, it's very clear - your life or the attacker's life. We've had some very explicit answers speaking to murder or biblical references to not taking life or to taking life. I'm Christian and I have taken life, I did so because my life or my fellow Marine's lives were forfeit if I didn't. Refer to the old testament and you'll find many examples of killing from King David to An Eye For An Eye.

The 10 commandments state "though shalt not kill", yet killing is required in other passages, leaving us to individually decide how to interpret what seem to be conflicting rules.

My interpretation has been to not take life without cause. That leaves a pretty big opening for me to rationalize what I've done in my life, but yet, I feel comfortable with that interpretation. I have never murdered, I've never killed outside the military actions in which I took part. Yet I study martial arts, I was a policeman for several years after the Marine Corps, and as a cop I carried a weapon and was required by law to take life if necessary. Fortunately it was never necessary.

That's where I was trying to go, what I was trying to explain in my earlier post - When necessary.

In our example we will be killed if we do not resist. With the skills we have, we may not have to kill, we may be able to disable the attacker and stop the threat. But there is always the chance in physical conflict where lethal force is required to survive personally or to protect the lives of innocents.

For those who say they would die rather than take a life, I respect their personal decisions. It's not the decision I would make, but that's me, an individual just like each of you. But consider this as an extension of the initial question of the thread - Would you kill to save the life of your child, your spouse, your parents, or that old lady walking down the street?

It's a decision that is far from black and white. Would you die by rushing into a burning house to save your child? I would. I know I would because I've examined my conscience and I've undergone several years of therapy from the killing I did in Viet Nam. The poster who said you carry it with you, in your dreams, for the rest of your life, etc. was exactly right. I do. But I'm ok with it every time I hold one of my granddaughters because they would not exist if I'd died in the war. My children were born after my military service.

We are raised to believe that taking life is wrong. Each of us is entitled to our opinion. My only reason for posting in this thread was to try and raise an awareness of the awesome ability and responsibility we have because we study martial arts.

Martial Arts is a method of combat or it's a sport. I guess it can be both, however, few sports teach killing blows and exactly what do you think is going to happen with a knife hand strike to the throat? You'll more than likely crush the larynx and windpipe and your attacker will die. But you practice that and other techniques. Why? They're not legal techniques in formal sparring. You'd likely be disqualified for an extreme strike such as the knife hand to the throat.

So, back to the question, "would you kill?" You all know from my post that I have and I would again. It's not my first choice, but in the fury and speed of real conflict, an assault in your home or on the street, how many choices do you have? How much time do you have? Who else might suffer or die if you choose to not take a life?

I'm not advocating that everyone make the decisions I've made. Each of us has to live with their conscience. I know I can reconcile taking a life if it keeps me alive to love my wife, my daughters, my granddaughters, and my friends. My conscience would not tolerate someone innocent dying from my inaction.

I study martial arts for many reasons, to be with my family in an activity (we have three generations of my family at our dojong!), to keep fit, to learn a discipline that expands my mind and provides me with a philosophy I embrace. But, also, I study because I may not always have a weapon other than my body, I may not be at home where I have my guns and knives, I may not enjoy the strength and speed that I still have for many more years (I turn 60 next month), but I have skills now and I have techniques that will be mine for as long as I study and practice them. I don't win many sparring matches, but I don't lose all of them either. But in a real life, threatening, live endangering situation, I know I will prevail. I will win. And whoever it was that I was protecting, even if it's myself, will survive. If that means someone who initiated a lethal threat has to die, then so be it! They made their decision, I made mine.

I hope I've raised a question or two in your minds because I believe this to be a vital subject for all of us who study martial arts. I mentioned before that we have an awesome ability and responsibility because we study martial arts. It is an art of war. It is also a sport. Make your choices as to why you study and practice, but hopefully, you make an agreement with yourself as to what you would do before the situation is upon you.

I know I'm new to the board and I sincerely hope I haven't offended anyone. It was not my intent. But I do have a lot of life experience and I don't mind sharing it or discussing it if it helps someone clarify their reasons and the responsibility they choose to accept. It's perfectly valid to choose this as a sport and to never use it outside the confines of sporting events. But it's also (IMO) perfectly valid to accept it as a defensive weapon of lethal force.

I also hope none of you ever have to face a situation where this decision becomes a reality.

[Marnet]

I've heard and seen a lot of martial artist boast about how they could kill when cornered but the truth is that the majority of people reading this thread are not physically able to kill another human being.

Only about 25% of the human population have the capabilities of killing but not without permanent emotional damage which could possibly lead to depression and suicide.

Another 1% are capable of killing without side effect but are not inclined to do so without just cause. These are the so called "heroes" of society.

Another 1% comprise of born killers who can kill without side effect and can do so for any reason. This demographic is made up of "sociopaths" and "psychopaths". Although they are born killers they can also lead perfectly normal lives without ever having to kill.

It is important to note though that born killers whether they kill for good or malicious purposes are not products of defect but important functional aspects of society.

How are these killer instincts inherited? Science is still unsure but personally i believe that this wiring is passed on genetically and triggered through experience.


Make no mistake, killing is not a game. If you are not within this 2% killing another human being will probably lead to a miserable life, death by your own hand or death by law.

References:
On Killing: The psychological cost of learning to kill in war and society
Lieutenant Colonel Dave Grossman
ISBN 0-316-33000-0

Theres also a pretty good documentary on national geographic "The truth about killing"

[Lazarus-USMC]

Marnet,
I skimmed LTC Grossman's book. It's very good and, in my experience, very accurate.

The statistics you quote shocked me, but I believe you. I would have thought a higher number would fall into the "hero" category. I don't consider myself a hero, but in college an interesting experiment caused our class to choose a category, based on religion, conscience, moral standards, etc. and defend your position in an essay that was then challenged by all other members of the class. We were allowed virtually unlimited rebuttal. It was interesting that the only category I could reconcile myself to was "hero". And strangely, the model or role of hero was Sisyphus, (condemned by the gods to endlessly roll a stone up a hill only to see it roll down again). The hero in him was because at the top of the hill, each time the stone rolled back down, was the single instant in which he turned and willingly took his first step back down the hill to take up his task once again. Just as FYI, the majority of the class chose Christian as their category and frequently used the "turn the other cheek" philosophy in challenge to my position (I graduated after therapy).

I think you've emphasized the point I was trying to make, that very few can take life and that you will have a price to pay - usually emotionally. I mentioned I went through therapy, it was in that therapy and the late night talks in the dark with my wife after one of my nightmares that my therapist and my wife were able to bring me to a point of reconciliation with my actions.

Prior to therapy, I was extremely violent, frequently angry, abused alcohol, and generally pursued a life seemingly bent on self destruction. Fortunately for me I was able to recover from that emotional pit.

I concur with you 100% that killing is not a game and taking a life will cost most people an emotional price. I highly recommend readers of this thread to read LTC Grossman's book and think now what you are willing to live with and what you know you cannot. Do it before you're faced with a situation and react to your training in a manner inconsistent with your conscience and moral values.

Laz

[Light123]

In Genesis 9 of the New King James Version of the Bible, God tells Noah that wase may kill animals for food, but man must not take the life of another.

If faced by someone with a knife, how couldwe not be able to disable its wielder? The blade is sharp, but an arm is not.

My dad was stabbed in the knee with a knife while at a bar standing up for his drunk friends. Not killed.

[Marnet]

If a person attacks another person with intent to kill then the attacker has given up his civil and human rights and doesn't deserve to live.

It's about the choices we make and the consequences we face.

[Light123]

If a person attacks another person with intent to kill then the attacker has given up his civil and human rights and doesn't deserve to live.

Somehow that doesn't make any sense.

[Stuart H]

Somehow that doesn't make any sense.

Because it's a big ole value judgement.

[pakuazhangkid]

No, only if I truly had to kill someone, but that would be the last descission I would make. You become no better then the attacker who may be out to kill you. Plus it's not up to me to decide who dies.

[BentMonk]

This is a fun hypothetical discussion, but in truth it's a "you had to be there" kind of thing. The specifics of these things are as vastly unique as the people involved. Everyone has their opinion, but no one is right or wrong. If any of us have been in this type of situation or one day find ourselves in it, we will all face different consequences based upon the choices we make and the type of person we are. I think we can all agree that life has value. IMO to stand quietly and allow your life to be taken is to consider your life without value. Also for a person to try and take your life shows that they do not value life. As I said before, I would not make a conscious choice to take someone else's life, even if they tried to take mine. I will however defend my life and my family's to the best of my ability. If in the course of that defense my attacker dies, oops. Why feel bad? If they hadn't been trying to kill me, they wouldn't have died. Why does letting yourself get killed make you a better person? If we all did that, the only people left in the world would be jerks who try to kill people. Oh wait...it's not far from that now. :eek:

[SgtGF]

Well for me the answer is easy though the road getting to my present answer was not. And for the record I have not killed anyone in hand to hand combat, but I have been deployed for a year in Baghdad doing convoy escort and prisoner escort details, and I earned my CAB so draw your own conclusions.

Yes, I would, and I wouldn't hesistate if the situation dictated it was required.

My second deployment to Iraq I came to the realization that the pain and suffering my wife and kids would feel if I died was absolutely unacceptable to me. There is no amount of guilt or remorse that even comes close to equal how important my family is to me, and I'm quite happy with that knowledge.

Is it a totally politically correct or enlightened answer? No, but at least it has the benefit of being honest.

Besides, I'm US Army, if I was against killing that'd be pretty hypocritical of me wouldn't it?

[GSHAMBROOKE]

Well for me the answer is easy though the road getting to my present answer was not. And for the record I have not killed anyone in hand to hand combat, but I have been deployed for a year in Baghdad doing convoy escort and prisoner escort details, and I earned my CAB so draw your own conclusions.

Yes, I would, and I wouldn't hesistate if the situation dictated it was required.

My second deployment to Iraq I came to the realization that the pain and suffering my wife and kids would feel if I died was absolutely unacceptable to me. There is no amount of guilt or remorse that even comes close to equal how important my family is to me, and I'm quite happy with that knowledge.

Is it a totally politically correct or enlightened answer? No, but at least it has the benefit of being honest.

Besides, I'm US Army, if I was against killing that'd be pretty hypocritical of me wouldn't it?

I pretty much agree with you, iwant to see my son grow up and i want to be there for him so better them than me.

[Southpaw535]

More than likely id regret it for the rest of my life but yeah i would if I didnt have another choice. and to be fair i think everybody would, body's natural instinct to survive.

[Schmeag]

I probably would not kill but it could be down to the situation. Close combat would make it harder to do it and I'd prefer to retreat. I hear that from range, killing can be much more impersonal. Is this true?

[Southpaw535]

probably. i guess shooting someone from a distance is different to stabbing someone and feeling the blade go in them and see them dying in front of you. My cousin knows a medic in the army and he said that looking in someones eyes as they die is "a horrific experiance"

[Haste]

It's terrible when it has to come to this, but if I was in the right, I would do whatever it takes to stay alive, and make sure that that enemy never will come after me again.

-Haste

[Combo Breaker]

We're talking about someone trying to kill you and you would let them instead of doing what you had to do to survive?

The question wasn't-- "You're stranded on a desert island with 1 other person and you need to murder them in order to use them for food to survive."

We're talking about someone trying to kill you!! You wouldn't defend yourself?? Morals go out the window when someone is trying to do you harm.

[rurounidragon]

yes if someone tried to kill me i would stop him/her with everything i have , when it means killing that person they should have thought twice before attacking me

[SouthWind]

Obviously it depends on the situation, if an individual has a knife or gun or something then of course. If Chuck Llydell was hell bent on fighting me to the death then I'd probably stab him. I can't imagine killing someone if I didn't have too. That's why I train jiu jitsu, it can be lethal, but it doesn't have to be. If I can incpacitate someone without taking their life then that's great. Of course my well-being is priority over theirs. If I spent ten years training a martial art and got into a fight and killed my unarmed opponent with a lethal strike, then yes I would feel guilty because I could spent those ten years training jitsu and maybe a little muay thai, and simply shut him down while I had time to escape. The fact of the matter is that most people who try and physically murder you aren't black belts.

[EGKA-KARATEKA]

Yes i would kill if there was a reason to kill and there was good reason

[Kew-Do]

I hope I never have to find out!

[1eyefor2eyes]

Wouldn't even blink.

[Lazarus1121]

I am the proud (confused) owner of the all too common moral dilemma presented by this question. Just to get it out there, I said yes. I would prefer to never have to kill another person, but if my or my loved ones lives were in danger, I would probably revert back to my primitive state and kill the perpetrator. After the fact, I would no doubt lose it. As would any regular person, I would have quite the hard time dealing with the fact that I just ended the existence of another human being on the planet. What suprises me about this poll is this: Why is it not 100% Yes? I can't help but speculate that even that small percentage that decided to say no were kidding themselves. If someone had the intent to KILL YOU, you're trying to tell me that you wouldn't fight back to the point of killing them? I look at it this way; no doubt most of us could disarm the person and subdue them, but I'm saying that this question is if you had to KILL THEM TO STOP THEM FROM KILLING YOU, would you kill? If some people looked at it that way, then I think there would be many more people answering yes.

[tellner]

If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?

Thats if they were putting up a fight.
If they're attacking you with a knife it kinda goes without saying that they're putting up a fight :rolleyes:

An attacker with a knife is definitely deadly force. If there's no other safe way to keep him from hurting you the legal tradition (I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. You'd be a flipping idiot to take any sort of legal advice from me) generally states that you have pretty broad discretion up to and including deadly force to keep yourself or an innocent third person from being hurt.

[I said some pretty harsh things in the rest of the post. It's probably better to take them out. Let's just say
My life is worth more to me than that of the criminal who is attacking me
If you have a lover, a spouse or a child he or she has an absolute claim on your protection. If you take on the responsibility you have to give up some of your scruples. That's just the way it is.
]

[Lazarus1121]

[I said some pretty harsh things in the rest of the post. It's probably better to take them out. Let's just say
My life is worth more to me than that of the criminal who is attacking me
If you have a lover, a spouse or a child he or she has an absolute claim on your protection. If you take on the responsibility you have to give up some of your scruples. That's just the way it is.
]

Tellner, I totally agree with you. Once you make a commitment to be someone's partner or parent, you must be willing to do anything to keep them from coming to any sort of harm. It's a simple matter of honor.
Plus, if someone attacks you, they are saying that your safety is less important than what they want from you, or less important than their safety is. The only thing to do then is to prove them wrong.

[Southpaw535]

and a brick teaches that lesson very well

[Sanshinman]

Kill or Die? That's not a question.

[Lazarus1121]

and a brick teaches that lesson very well

What can I say? True dat.

[the australian]

Yes, but only to save my life, the life of someone else or if the person really deserved it, like a terrorist or mass murderer.

[Like Water]

If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?

Thats if they were putting up a fight.

For starters I would never kill a human, I would rather die.

So that would be a no.

But what is your view? What do you say?

Are you serious? You would rather be stabbed to death than fight back?!? What are you doing on a martial arts forum? :confused:

As for your question, if someone was trying to attack me with a knife I would do everything in my power to avoid the confrontation and if I couldnt (back against a wall literally)...then yes, I would not hesitate to take his life.

[shaolin fighter]

Of course I would kill someone if they were going to kill me or even hurt me. You have to have ruthless aggression when confronted with someone who is out to hurt you otherwise you might as well kiss your butt good bye.

[CatWise]

If it comes to my son's wellbeing and safety, I would not hesitate to kill. I pray to GOD that I am never in such a situation.

[1998232v6]

I am trying to become a Police Officer and i have already accepted the fact that if someone is going to try to kill me i am going to stop them before they do and that means using deadly force.

[Custom Volusia]

in a heart beat.

[koyo]

Thankfully the choice shall not be yours and thankfully instinct shall say YES.


regards koyo

[Sanshinman]

Yes, but only to save my life, the life of someone else or if the person really deserved it, like a terrorist or mass murderer.

100% agree and understand the first half of this but unless you caught them red handed or where able to stop them in the act and your action could save a life in that moment the last two have to be left to the judicial system; We are not Judge and jury (worst luck)

[fizz almighty]

I strongly believe that NO ONE deserves to die. If I was in a life and death situation I would hope to knock them unconcious, call the police then run. Why do so many people leap straight to taking the attacker's life when knocking them out and putting them behind bars will do?

Again however, I can not claim to know how my natural instincts would kick in

[Sanshinman]

This is a theoretical situation with so many unknown parameters that it has to be seen in context - the answer is YES because there is a worst case scenario that is unescapable - 'kill or be killed' but between peace and certain death is any number of outcomes that include the necessity to neutralize the threat enough to escape or get them nicked.

What I would urge is that in any SP situation you are 100% committed to your own personal safely, never hold back and act with as much power & speed as you can muster. So long as you act with the right intentions then whatever the outcome your conscience will be clear.

[the australian]

I strongly believe that NO ONE deserves to die. If I was in a life and death situation I would hope to knock them unconcious, call the police then run. Why do so many people leap straight to taking the attacker's life when knocking them out and putting them behind bars will do?

Again however, I can not claim to know how my natural instincts would kick in

Really? Did you think that when you heard about 9/11? When you learned about the Holocaust and how Hitler died and many of the other Nazi leaders were executed, you never thought, "They got what was coming to them, they deserved it?" Not cr(hey)ping on what you think, just asking a question.

[Custom Volusia]

I strongly believe that NO ONE deserves to die. If I was in a life and death situation I would hope to knock them unconcious, call the police then run. Why do so many people leap straight to taking the attacker's life when knocking them out and putting them behind bars will do?

Again however, I can not claim to know how my natural instincts would kick in

If you are attacked by a person who is INTENTION is to kill you...and you replay by TRYING to injure them and NOT kill them....THEY have the upper hand.

It's just like if you carry a gun (which I DO) and you try to just shoot a person in the leg instead of center mast. It's MUCH easier to miss and you may have good intentions (I.E. trying to hurt them and get them behind bars) but most likely it will cost you your life in the long run.

[Custom Volusia]

oops...double post

[flying3692]

The martial way is the art of war and with original intent killing someone was simply one more means of defending yourself, and albeit an extreme method of self defense a necessary one. Today's view is different, we are taught that life is important, vital and should be cherised. We are expected to train ourselves endlessly with near unrealistic goals so that if the situation presented itself we would not have to kill. Personally, a killing blow is necessary to this day. A benevelent practicioner of the martial arts or the warriors ways dosn't go around starting fights, and should not be expected to risk his life in an effort to enlighten his attacker. Cut my skin and I'll cut your bones, cut my bones and I'll take your life. This is the warriors way, and I'm not saying to go around killing everyone, that is not correct. Do not, however expect your attacker to grant you any forgiveness.

[Southpaw535]

as much as i hate starting disputes i have to ask Custom, why the hell do you carry a gun in the first place?

[fizz almighty]

Yes, I firmly believe that absolutely no body deserves to die- including (if he were alive) Hitler. I by no means say that what he -or others in other situations- did was right but again I say why kill when you could just knock them out and put them behind bars?
I would rather not go into why I believe nobody deserves to die, save that for another day. But as for the Hitler example..

I have a friend who said they would, given the chance, kill Hitler. I asked them why, she said because it would make her feel good.
Hitler killed because he beleived he was doing this great thing for the world, which no doubt made him 'feel good' so whats the difference? It wouldn't make those he killed any better, wouldn't make their deaths mean nothing.

[Sanguinary]

I would snap his neck if i thought my life was in danger... But i wouldn't lower myself to using his knife.

[Southpaw535]

well putting hitler in prison would probably be better in the sense that at least we'd get to punish him somewhat rather thsn him killing himself, and he'd get beaten up so badly all the time

[Axelator]

well putting hitler in prison would probably be better in the sense that at least we'd get to punish him somewhat rather thsn him killing himself, and he'd get beaten up so badly all the time

HAve you seen prisoners recently? They have swastikas all over them. Hitler would love it in prison.

[Axelator]

I hate topics like these, it always end up people saying things like "well if mine or my families lives were in danger I'd kill the person(s) threatening them by crushing their heads to dust" and other ridiculos claims.

You might be willing to kill but being able to is an entirely different question. Normally it's skinny or skinny fat middle aged men who go to martial arts class once a week and I have a hard time believing they would stand a chance against a likely attacker such as a gang of teenagers.

Personally if my life and any other innocent persons life was in danger I like to think I'd be willing to do whatever it takes to defend that including killing. However I also accept people are bloody hard to kill and against a gang of thugs I wouldn't stand a chance.

[Like Water]

Yes, I firmly believe that absolutely no body deserves to die- including (if he were alive) Hitler. I by no means say that what he -or others in other situations- did was right but again I say why kill when you could just knock them out and put them behind bars?
I would rather not go into why I believe nobody deserves to die, save that for another day. But as for the Hitler example..

I have a friend who said they would, given the chance, kill Hitler. I asked them why, she said because it would make her feel good.
Hitler killed because he beleived he was doing this great thing for the world, which no doubt made him 'feel good' so whats the difference? It wouldn't make those he killed any better, wouldn't make their deaths mean nothing.

FYI, Hitler had Jewish heritage. He was just like many other fake politicians...he stands for one thing, but in reality does the opposite. He had Jewish blood, yet claimed he was of arian blood and wanted to "rid the world of the unpure."

You should get your facts straight on that one...but more importantly, not bring up such controversial and touchy subjects. :rolleyes:

[Axelator]

Woooooooooooooah. If you're going to make outrageous claims like Hitler had Jewish blood you better have some solid sources to back that up. :cool:

[Arnoo]

Depends axel i dont think all gangs of teens that rob are stone cold killers themself sure there probaly are some that are but alot of em aint that different from you or me they just need money.

[Arnoo]

and ye hitler was 1/4 or 1/8 jewish kinda ironic

[Like Water]

Woooooooooooooah. If you're going to make outrageous claims like Hitler had Jewish blood you better have some solid sources to back that ******** up. :cool:

Does this suffice?

http://lloydthomas.org/1-IsraelTimeLine/7-1930-1999/hitler.html

Just google it if you wanna see more...

[Moi]

Why should it matter? He died a long time ago.

[Axelator]

Does this suffice?

http://lloydthomas.org/1-IsraelTimeLine/7-1930-1999/hitler.html

Just google it if you wanna see more...

Does a jewish run website, that has a link saying Hitler was also addicted to drugs at the bottom count as a reliable unbiased source?

Also even that source dosen't say that he has any Jewish blood in him, it uses the word probably.

Just because it's history dosen't mean it doesn't matter.

[Like Water]

It's not like I pulled this out of my ass. Another member just chimed in and said the same thing. If you are so skeptical then do your own search.

[Axelator]

It's not like I pulled this out of my ass. Another member just chimed in and said the same thing. If you are so skeptical then do your own search.

So two people on an internet forum should be all the proof I need that Adolf Hitler had Jewish blood? Sorry I'm not an idiot.

http://members.tripod.com/comicism/prophitbio01.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alois_Hitler#Leopold_Frankenberger

There seems to not be alot of information about his biological grandfather on his fathers side. There also seems to be three candidates. There's no name on his fathers birth cirtificate.

So yes you've read scraps of information then jumped to conclusions that there's not enough evidence to support aka pulling it out your ass.

[Mitch]

If someone was trying to kill you with a knife, would you kill the person in order to stop them?

Thats if they were putting up a fight.

For starters I would never kill a human, I would rather die.

So that would be a no.

But what is your view? What do you say?

Let's get back to the OP, shall we?

Mitch

[BentMonk]

I hate topics like these, it always end up people saying things like "well if mine or my families lives were in danger I'd kill the person(s) threatening them by crushing their heads to dust" and other ridiculos claims.

You might be willing to kill but being able to is an entirely different question. Normally it's skinny or skinny fat middle aged men who go to martial arts class once a week and I have a hard time believing they would stand a chance against a likely attacker such as a gang of teenagers.

Personally if my life and any other innocent persons life was in danger I like to think I'd be willing to do whatever it takes to defend that including killing. However I also accept people are bloody hard to kill and against a gang of thugs I wouldn't stand a chance.

I don't know what MA classes you've been hanging out in, but there are quite a few that do a great deal of physical conditioning and live training. This is especially true of a MMA school. I'm sorry that you don't feel confident in your own skills, but your above generalization concerning who attends MA classes is way off base. I agree with you about the false bravado, but I feel that I and many that I train with are more than capable of taking a life if need be. BTW, I'm 39 years old and in better physical condition than many people much younger than me. That's because I work out all the time and train with live, resisting opponents as often as possible. I have been the victim of an assault as a teen. That is what motivated me to make certain I could use my MA skills if I have to. I know my limits, but I also have a good idea of what I can do. The OP is a moral question, not a question of ability. I would have no problem helping to clean the gene pool if some stupid punk was coming at me with a weapon. You get what you give. IMO people who would not kill are not respecting the gift of life enough to defend against people who place no value on life. This is just my opinion. It and a dollar will buy you a soda. :evil: Peace.

[Axelator]

I don't know what MA classes you've been hanging out in, but there are quite a few that do a great deal of physical conditioning and live training. This is especially true of a MMA school. I'm sorry that you don't feel confident in your own skills, but your above generalization concerning who attends MA classes is way off base. I agree with you about the false bravado, but I feel that I and many that I train with are more than capable of taking a life if need be. BTW, I'm 39 years old and in better physical condition than many people much younger than me. That's because I work out all the time and train with live, resisting opponents as often as possible. I have been the victim of an assault as a teen. That is what motivated me to make certain I could use my MA skills if I have to. I know my limits, but I also have a good idea of what I can do. The OP is a moral question, not a question of ability. I would have no problem helping to clean the gene pool if some stupid punk was coming at me with a weapon. You get what you give. IMO people who would not kill are not respecting the gift of life enough to defend against people who place no value on life. This is just my opinion. It and a dollar will buy you a soda. :evil: Peace.

Yeah I didn't mean people like you, I didn't want to say it because I thought it would open a big argument but I was mainly talking about the many traditional martial artists who think their death moves will let them wipe the floor with assailents, while they only attend classes once a week and do no other training.

I have great respect for people who make sure their body is throughly conditioned. I remember gettting in a fight when I was 13 and getting my ass kicked after having done TMA for 7 years. AFter that I realised that physical conditioning counts for alot in a fight, being stronger and faster is always helpful. ALso that alot of what I'd be taught was crap.

[BentMonk]

Yeah I didn't mean people like you, I didn't want to say it because I thought it would open a big argument but I was mainly talking about the many traditional martial artists who think their death moves will let them wipe the floor with assailents, while they only attend classes once a week and do no other training.

I have great respect for people who make sure their body is throughly conditioned. I remember gettting in a fight when I was 13 and getting my ass kicked after having done TMA for 7 years. AFter that I realised that physical conditioning counts for alot in a fight, being stronger and faster is always helpful. ALso that alot of what I'd be taught was crap.

I completely agree with you here. Anyone, regardless of what art they study, that has not pressure tested their techniques has absolutely no clue rather they are effective or not. There is no technique from any art that will magically allow you to overcome someone who is bigger and stronger than you, except firearm fu. If anyone says otherwise, I'm calling BS until they can prove it with a posted video clip. All MA techniques are based on physics. Without strength training, conditioning, and live training, the physics will not work. Schools that train without these elements are giving their students a dangerous sense of false confidence. It seems we both learned some painful lessons, but they served us well and made us stronger and smarter. Be well. :hat:

[Southpaw535]

agreed. it was a shock when i was so outweighed and out muscled when i started sparring so god knows what would have happened in a real fight