World Koong Joong Hapkido

[jimjam]

Greetings to all at the Martial Arts Planet.

I would like to introduce our Hapkido organisation:

World Koong Joong Hapkido.

Our organisation was at the very beginning of Hapkido in England in 1970, so we have many members who have 20 – 30 years experience each with Hapkido.

If you are interested, please take a look at our new website: http://www.hap-ki-do.co.uk.


Regards,

Jeremy Wright
Webmaster: World Koong Joong Hapkido

[Choiyoungwoo]

Greetings to all at the Martial Arts Planet.

I would like to introduce our Hapkido organisation:

World Koong Joong Hapkido.

Our organisation was at the very beginning of Hapkido in England in 1970, so we have many members who have 20 – 30 years experience each with Hapkido.

If you are interested, please take a look at our new website: http://www.hap-ki-do.co.uk.


Regards,

Jeremy Wright
Webmaster: World Koong Joong Hapkido

Curious...

The website says it is also the temple arts of Korea AKA Bulkyo Moo Sool. This sounds like Kuk Sool. Judging from the "patterns" link ( which shows positions from the Cho Geup Hyung of Kuk Sool), The history page mentions--- "While in Korea, Mr Joo 5th Dan, was taught Hap Ki Do from two schools, Dea Han Ki Do Fe and Dea Han Heup Fe." Back Then the Dea Han Ki Do hae(fe?) was indistinguisable from Kuk sool Won.

Although there is clearly some nice skills shown on the website, and probably some evolution over the years in the org, it looks like the roots of this organization are, at least in part, from Kuk Sool. Is that the case, or am I just imagining things????

[jimjam]

Hi,

Thanks for taking a good look at our site.

Our patterns did not originate from Mr Joo at the beginning of UK Hapkido, but arrived little later and came with Master Hong from Korea, and Master Hong has not ever given any weight to Kuk Sool origins as far as I know. Sorry but I can’t be more specific than that.

Regards,
Jeremy

[hapk1do]

Curious...

The website says it is also the temple arts of Korea AKA Bulkyo Moo Sool. This sounds like Kuk Sool. Judging from the "patterns" link ( which shows positions from the Cho Geup Hyung of Kuk Sool), The history page mentions--- "While in Korea, Mr Joo 5th Dan, was taught Hap Ki Do from two schools, Dea Han Ki Do Fe and Dea Han Heup Fe." Back Then the Dea Han Ki Do hae(fe?) was indistinguisable from Kuk sool Won.

Well... Kung Jung Mu Sul is actually what you are referring to I think. There are actually three ancient systems that different Korean Martial Arts Masters cite in many curricula... Kung Jung Mu Sul, Bulkyo Mu Sul, and Sado Mu Sul. Basically though, it all comes back to the old adage about royal courts, monasteries, and secret systems.

The name of this organization sounds a whole lot like Kung Jung Mu Sul, which is basically very similar to Kuk Sool oriented curricula. Looking at the website though, I see that N.G. Joo was cited as well as W. K. Hong.

If I'm not mistaken, both of them were originally under Ji Han Jae and his minions and Joo broke away or retired. If you look at the logo there, it's pretty close to the Sin Moo logo. I wouldn't say that it's set in stone though, as the history appears to be vague at best.

Also... Ji Han Jae actually sat on the board of the Korea Kido Association(Kido Hae) in the few years after it was first started, so it could have been any of the GMs that influenced Joo or Hong.

Not knockin your style though JimJam... Looks to me to be pretty much squared away...

I wish you good health and good practice. :)

[iron_ox]

If I'm not mistaken, both of them were originally under Ji Han Jae and his minions and Joo broke away or retired. If you look at the logo there, it's pretty close to the Sin Moo logo. I wouldn't say that it's set in stone though, as the history appears to be vague at best.



You are mistaken.

[hapk1do]

You are mistaken.

Well, I know that he apparently taught GM Fred Adams who, according your own website, taught you extensively... So... If I am mistaken, I would assume that you know the answer to the riddle... Please Master Sogor, do tell. Who was Joo's teacher??

[iron_ox]

Mr. Joo, as he was called was the first to teach Hapkido in the UK, and to his first student, Grandmaster Fred Adams. I have never met Mr. Joo, but according to Grandmaster Adams, Mr. Joo was always adament that Ji Han Jae, nor his "minions" (?) were not his teacher. Frankly, if you know more about Mr. Joo than the man that was with him daily for years, I would be surprised. Accordingly, the reason he used the eagle logo is known more to him and Grandmaster Adams.

[davefly76]

If you are interested, please take a look at our new website: http://www.hap-ki-do.co.uk.



nice website but the demo video would have been better if you could see the technique being performed, rather than just the end throw. :)

[hapk1do]

Mr. Joo, as he was called was the first to teach Hapkido in the UK, and to his first student, Grandmaster Fred Adams. I have never met Mr. Joo, but according to Grandmaster Adams, Mr. Joo was always adament that Ji Han Jae, nor his "minions" (?) were not his teacher. Frankly, if you know more about Mr. Joo than the man that was with him daily for years, I would be surprised. Accordingly, the reason he used the eagle logo is known more to him and Grandmaster Adams.

On the contrary Master Sogor, I was never claiming that I knew more about anything than anyone and I respect what you have said here. I will not deny at all that GM Adams should/would know an infinitely greater amount of information on the subject than I would...

However, the History of Mister Joo is, at best, not freely documented on either of the websites that he appears on(that i have seen anyway). Surely there is some account of his lineage available somewhere. I can find nothing extensive in writing, and will admit that I am going by word of mouth and deductive reasoning, which you have demonstrated here as being questionable at best... agreed...

... I am definitely not, however, attempting to pass Mr. Joo(all respect) off as invalid or hokey...

As for the logos, well... The two look pretty close to me.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/12/SinMooHapkidoEagle.jpg/250px-SinMooHapkidoEagle.jpg
http://www.hap-ki-do.co.uk./common/Images/other/WKJlogo.jpg

All respect, and I wish you good health and good practice. :)

[Thomas]

I just watched the "demo" - it's pretty cool. I liked the endings, but also would have liked to have seen a bit more of the entry. Good stuff though!!!!!


Looks like a nice site and it looks like a club I'd check out if I were in the area!

[JTMS]

I just watched the "demo" - it's pretty cool. I liked the endings, but also would have liked to have seen a bit more of the entry. Good stuff though!!!!!


Looks like a nice site and it looks like a club I'd check out if I were in the area!


I agree! nice web site.

Best wishes J.B. Murphy

[Rhea]

Hello all at the World Koong Joong Hapkido.
Nice website, and a club with some lovely members who are welcoming and friendly.

[Choiyoungwoo]

Our patterns did not originate from Mr Joo at the beginning of UK Hapkido, but arrived little later and came with Master Hong from Korea, and Master Hong has not ever given any weight to Kuk Sool origins as far as I know. Sorry but I can’t be more specific than that.


Wow! thats odd I wonder how an original/old/traditional HKD art (which usually have no hyung) evolved hyung almost identical to kuk sool with out ever any admitted crossover ....Amazing

[klaasb]

Maybe they studied in the same hidden temple back in Korea? ;)

Just kidding. It could be that this master Hong studied Kuk Sool Won when it wasn't Kuk Sool Won yet. Which would be the reason why he has never given any weight to Kuk Sool origins of what he does.

[PlumpSamurai]

just wandering about this page

http://www.hap-ki-do.co.uk/FredAdams.htm

[Bruce W Sims]

Er.... 'scuse me. Gotta question:

Exactly which "royal palace" is being referred to in the phrase

"Koong Joong - "Palace Martial Art"?

The reason I ask is that it would be helpful to know what resources attest to the fact that the material studied by the group hosting this website was present in, studied at, used by a "royal court". Help?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

[hkdstl]

Nice website. Great technique endings.

[Yakka]

Interesting stuff!
Does anyone know if Mr Joo is still alive ? If so where is Mr Joo now or what happened to him? Perhaps he could clear this up or maybe Master Hong could.
Is there any disagreament with Master adams and Koon Joong school at all?

regards
Yakka

[Dragon2]

Hello all I was in England while all this was going on. If you look at the archived pictures from the Koong Joong Hap Ki Do web site you will see several people whom most know. My Master Mod-Yang Kim went to visit A master in Norwich to work out. The students that I am referring to are Master Richard Roper, Master John Holmes and Master phillip Holmes are in the early pictures there before coming to Kuk Sool Won in England. If you would contact them you probably could find out who Master Joo Teacher was. D2

[Dragon2]

I need to change one of the students name from Master John Holmes to Master John Ives. My Mistake I was in a Hurry to put in my reply D2

[kjnphil]

Let's all be honest, GM Adams is no such thing! He is a regular black belt, his title is MR Adams. He is a fake and has fooled many people.

[iron_ox]

Let's all be honest, GM Adams is no such thing! He is a regular black belt, his title is MR Adams. He is a fake and has fooled many people.

Just curious why you believe this. I see no reference to you training with him, or being a student. And I will state that his technical abilities and curriculum have been judged by people who have a bit more knowledge about Hapkido than your bio would lead me to believe you have.

KJN Hinchliffe, consider the glass house analogy for just a moment.

[kjnphil]

Each to there own reality. You have your truth and I have mine.

[Hannibal]

YOU made a bold claim, now YOU need to expand on it - otherwise you have necroed a 18 month old thread just to troll it with childish insults

[iron_ox]

Each to there own reality. You have your truth and I have mine.

Ok, simple question, how much HAPKIDO training do you have under your Kuk Sool Won belt? Any training with Grandmaster Adams? I certainly don't remember him talking about you, and I've known him a good bit longer than you have been training according to your bio.

I see you joined the prison system in 1990, did you work with Grandmaster Adams? He spent a good bit of time doing that as well...

And again, since his material and technique have been objectively examined by one of the three men alive to get a 9th dan from the Founder of Hapkido, I would say your "reality" sounds more fantasy...but it seems you might just have a thing for titles..."kjnphil" Maybe?

[peterc8455]

YOU made a bold claim, now YOU need to expand on it - otherwise you have necroed a 18 month old thread just to troll it with childish insults

I'm curious too why the comment after almost 2 years.

It looks like you haven't posted on MAP since 2010 and its just odd.

Did something happen between you and this Adams gentleman (or one of his students)?

My guess is someone probably opened a school near one of yours or something like that.

[iron_ox]

I'm curious too why the comment after almost 2 years.

It looks like you haven't posted on MAP since 2010 and its just odd.

Did something happen between you and this Adams gentleman (or one of his students)?

My guess is someone probably opened a school near one of yours or something like that.

It was actually kjnphil who made the comment...and Grandmaster Adams is the man that brought Hapkido to the UK, and was he first to teach in several other countries in Europe as well.

And not to put too fine a point on it, he has had several articles published over the years in the UK that may not have made KSW folks too happy...but that was probably before kjnphil started training.

What is also a real shame is the way that Trevor Rant and his Koong Joong Hapkido group have tried to marginalize Fred Adams, even going so far as to try and make it look like Mr. Rant was training in Hapkido before the organization - the Great Britain Hapkido Association - existed. Without Fred Adams actually forming the association (with his wife as the original secretary) and hiring Mr. Joo as the teacher, who knows when Hapkido would have gotten started, and with all due respect to the fact that Trevor Rant has been training for a very long time, when the GBHA was established, he was still in school.

Or it could be that two of the highest ranking KSW men in the UK John Ives and Philip Holmes trained very early in their careers under Fred Adams GBHA.

Maybe kjnphil is reacting to that.

[kjnphil]

Philip Holmes and John Ives did not train under Fred Adams but with him, and they remember him well. Yes people remembered him when I worked at the prison. He was there as an auxiliary, a night patrol, not a prison officer. You are right this is all a very old argument and I apologise for upsetting a few folks.

[iron_ox]

Philip Holmes and John Ives did not train under Fred Adams but with him, and they remember him well. Yes people remembered him when I worked at the prison. He was there as an auxiliary, a night patrol, not a prison officer. You are right this is all a very old argument and I apologise for upsetting a few folks.

Yes, as as I said, they trained under Fred Adams GBHA, just to be clear.

And I am sorry if I said anything that was misconstrued.

Fred, as I have called him at his insistence since I met him, turns 80 in June. It is my hope, that for one moment all the bitterness and hurt feelings can be shoved aside and everyone can simply wish him a happy birthday during this milestone.

He created the first Hapkido Association in the UK, and it was he that got the ball rolling for Hapkido in the UK and many other places in Europe. He got a lot of people started in Hapkido, even if their path went elsewhere for whatever reason.

I think a new thread might be warranted for this.

[kjnphil]

I agree is silly but we must agree to disagree, they trained with NOT under.

Best wishes.