Mace, Tazers and knives.

[Floorismyfriend]

Anyone here ever been maced before?
Being maced in the face is probably right up there with taking knee to the groin area, but the effects are much more long lasting.
If your hesitant to carry mace banaka(the stuff you spray in your mouth to give you minty fresh breath) is a great substitution although I am not sure if could cause some permanent damage to the targets eyes.
Tazers are a little harder to use than mace due to the fact that it would most likely have to be hidden in your purse. In purchasing a tazer i prefer the one that have the sharp points that could cut through clothing and even skin.
I dont know muchabout knives.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Note to anyone in England, remember that both mace and stun guns are illegal, your best bet if you really want an equivalent is a can of hairspray in your purse.

[Knight_Errant]

Right, I'll be sure to carry some hairspray in my purse from now on. :D

[Floorismyfriend]

If you cant carry mace you can always use banaka.
Works almost as good but it also gives you a minty fresh breath.
Its alot smaller than a hair spray so you can keep it in a pocket instead of having to keep it in your purse.

[YODA]

Originally posted by ckdstudent
Note to anyone in England, remember that both mace and stun guns are illegal, your best bet if you really want an equivalent is a can of hairspray in your purse.

Note No.2 for anyone in England.

Afformentioned can of hairspray becomes an offensive weapon as soon as you point it at your attacker.

[Thomas]

I have had experience with mace...
I was in a hallway when this guy grabbed a woman and she maced him full in the face. It stunned him and he stood there trying to wipe his eyes clean, so she maced him again and retreated into her room. I had to walk past the area to get out (He was between the exit and myself)... as I walked through, I held my breath but it still made my eyes swell and burnt my lungs... I was gasping and feeling pretty bad by the time I got past him. Also, I had tons of mucus in my nose and mouth... not pleasent... even for an indirect walk through.

Also... it reminded me a lot of taing the CS gas hits in the militray for training... it'll loosen your bowels, clogg you up with mucus and burn your eyes. I found the mace just about as bad.

[Mrs Owt]

My sister is a nurse who is sent to visit people in their homes and some of the other nurses carry bear repellant. Unfortunately it has been used more often against the nurse than it has helped them. They have just assumed by carrying it they are protected. You need to practice with it, know what situations to use it in, know the wind conditions, and many other factors to use it effectively and safely. Same for most weapons - you have to train with them and be prepared to commit to using them. You just can't brandish a knife and hope the assailant starts to whimper and call for his mommy. They intend to hurt you so you have to be prepared to defend yourself. Again, one day self defence courses and carrying these type of weapons often give women a false sense of security without practice and drilling needed to make them effective.

[cripplefujitsu]

Knives are bad! Ok, so my balisong is my special friend and I'm being a hypocrite. The point is......knives are too easily redirected. They're probably the single worst weapon for an untrained female in self defense. An untrained anyone, really. It's just too easy to slip up and hurt yourself or turn the weapon over to your attacker.....

[KickChick]

Mace & pepper sprays are non-lethal, and very convenient to carry (although there are restrictions as to where you can carry it like courthouses, airlines, Federal buildings, etc.), ... does keep your attacker at a distance.
There are several varieties that can spray the attacker with a UV dye allowing for later identification. There are some that produces a foam which expands essentially blinding the attacker.

The new tazers that are now out can now stop an attacker at a distance. They have a great success rate (anywhere from 80% to 90%)

[hkphooey]

Knives, CS and Electric devices.

I personally like knives, though they may or may not be your best option. Knives are readily avaliable in your home and there are many that can be easily carried concealed. They can be used to intimidate an attacker and they can do major damage. Let's look at 2 different peple; untrained and trained.
Untrained: I am not an advocate for drawing a knive in hopes to intimidate an attacker, especially when in the hands of an unskilled person. Though a knife can still be a devistating weapon to defend one's life with and if you're looking at being raped or murdered then you better use it if you have that option. I feel it would be best used as a suprise, not letting the attacker know about it until you are placing the point of the knife 6in into them.

Trained: If the attacker has displayed a knife then I'd draw mine. Other than that same as above.

Stun guns: Scare tactic. don't bet your life on them. Been hit with a few and they wouldn't stop me from grabbing a beer from the frig. Taser's may be better, I've never been shot with one. Though they seem a bit hard to carry around on your person.

Sprays: They work to a point, nothing like the CS in the military. The last time I got sprayed was an accident, though my eyes water I coughed and snot ran out my nose, I laughed while walking out of the house and was well aware of what was going on and where I was and the person who sprayed me was. Even if they spray doesn't work great, it can give you an advantage to deliver some good strikes and allow you to get away.

I'm not an expert nor do I pretend to be!

Ken

[Nimrook]

I took a class in high school taught by a rape victim who learned wing chun, TKD, and aikido, soon after her incident.
One point she made that always stuck was: what if you dropped your weapon, left it at home, locked it in your car, or (if you have a purse) can't get to it in time because your cell phone or wallet is in the way?

The best weapon in the world is your own body, so you really shouldn't rely on anything other then yourself. Now I'm not saying its completely useless to carry one, but still keep your hands, feet, knees, elbows, (and my favorite) your forehead, always at the ready.

[hkphooey]

Originally posted by Nimrook
I took a class in high school taught by a rape victim who learned wing chun, TKD, and aikido, soon after her incident.
One point she made that always stuck was: what if you dropped your weapon, left it at home, locked it in your car, or (if you have a purse) can't get to it in time because your cell phone or wallet is in the way?

The best weapon in the world is your own body, so you really shouldn't rely on anything other then yourself. Now I'm not saying its completely useless to carry one, but still keep your hands, feet, knees, elbows, (and my favorite) your forehead, always at the ready.
Very good point. Weapons are useless unless you have then on you, and fighting empty hands should only be a means to get to a weapon.

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by YODA
Note No.2 for anyone in England.

Afformentioned can of hairspray becomes an offensive weapon as soon as you point it at your attacker.

Note No. 3 for anyone in England.

This is all about intent. If you're carrying the hairspray because you are going to a mate's house to 'do' their hair or coming home from the hairspray shop, and you then take it out and use it in self-defence (with reasonable force) then that's legal.

If, on the other hand, you carry it with the intent of using it as a weapon IF you should find yourself in a situation where you need to defend then that would be illegal.

There was an excellent episode of 'The Bill' which covered this quite nicely I thought - although in that instance it was oven-cleaner.

Mike

[Zero Vector 0]

dont bother with a taser, its a one shot deal, and if you miss, itll take forever to reload and rewind

[Nimrook]

now what does the law in england allow you to do when attacked?

[Floorismyfriend]

I heard you could scream for help. Wait maybe dats illegal too.

[Freeform]

Flooris, if you haven't got anything constructive to say, I don't believe this particular thread is the correct place for your unique brand of intelligence (and a thread you started as well unbelievably).

In the UK you can defend yourself using 'reasonable force', this is obviously dependant on the situation. If your particularly interested member Patrick Bateman (a Police Officer) has done a nice piece on Yoda's CEA website that I would suggest you read.

You aren't allowed to carry weapons but you can improvise them from common everyday objects, it all has to do with intent. If you are carrying around a steak knife when somebody mugs you, and you stab them I think questions will be asked.

Colin

[Floorismyfriend]

Originally posted by Freeform
Flooris, if you haven't got anything constructive to say, I don't believe this particular thread is the correct place for your unique brand of intelligence (and a thread you started as well unbelievably).

In the UK you can defend yourself using 'reasonable force', this is obviously dependant on the situation. If your particularly interested member Patrick Bateman (a Police Officer) has done a nice piece on Yoda's CEA website that I would suggest you read.

You aren't allowed to carry weapons but you can improvise them from common everyday objects, it all has to do with intent. If you are carrying around a steak knife when somebody mugs you, and you stab them I think questions will be asked.

Colin
Steak knife really a common everyday object?

[YODA]

The articles FF mentioned...

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-force.htm

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-hitfirst.htm

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-assault.htm

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-weapons.htm

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-blades.htm

[Floorismyfriend]

Originally posted by YODA
The articles FF mentioned...

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-force.htm

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-hitfirst.htm

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-assault.htm

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-weapons.htm

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/law-blades.htm
If they allow 3 inch blades why dont they allow mace?
I would think 3 inch blades would be a more offensive weapon.

[Freeform]

Cheers Yoda.

If you read my post, you'll seem I mentioned intent. It is not common place to carry a steak knife around, therefore if you stuck a mugger with one, you would have to answer questions about why you were carrying it.

Col

[YODA]

It's also hard to justify carrying MACE around in order to open packaged computer boxes at work :D

MACE has bulit in intent - it only has ONE purpose.

[Floorismyfriend]

Originally posted by Freeform
Cheers Yoda.

If you read my post, you'll seem I mentioned intent. It is not common place to carry a steak knife around, therefore if you stuck a mugger with one, you would have to answer questions about why you were carrying it.

Col
One question.
After you were done defending your life with the steak knife.
Could they prosecute you for carrying the steak knife?

[Freeform]

Possibly, thats the point I was getting at. :rolleyes:

I shall attempt to be less oblique in the future.

Colin

[Floorismyfriend]

Originally posted by YODA
It's also hard to justify carrying MACE around in order to open packaged computer boxes at work :D

MACE has bulit in intent - it only has ONE purpose.
I thought maces purpose was to defend yourself with it.

3 inch blades is a bit much to open a box dont you think? In the states we have box cutters that only get as long as 1-2 inches long. Even as short as those box cutters are some students in philadelphia come into school and use the blades to cut other students hence the phrase "I ma cut you *****"

[YODA]

MACE's purpose is to spray in someone's face.

Attack or defence is dependant on the person using it.

[Monty]

The way I see it, is like this:

Today's attacker will be prepared for his victims to carry pepperspray and other defense weapons, and in most cases the attack will happen so fast that there's not a chance in hell you'll ever even start to reach for your defense weapon.
I know this doesn't exactly help those who carry a pepperspray as a selfconfidence booster, but that's how it is.

Even police forces around the world, have found out that if an attacker jumps you, from as far as 10 feet away, an officer won't have the time to draw a weapon. And people ... these are persons who are properly trained in the use of a weapon that isn't hidden somewhere in a purse or a pocket !
Police forces encourage officers to take up unarmed fighting in these cases, and not even bother to TRY to get to their weapons.
In fact ... if the gun stays in the holster, it's a lot more secure, and there's a lot less chance the attacker will get hold of it.

And the second point is that if you carry any weapon, you should be prepared to see that weapon used upon yourself.
Trying to find a pepperspray in a handbag, if a guy jumps you .... forget it.
Even if you get hold of it, chances are you'll drop it in the fight, and if your attacker picks it up .... well, you do the math !
Then he'll still be the initial attacker, but now he's mad because you dared to defend yourself, AND he has your weapon.

[ICT]

Ok let me put my 2 cents in since I have had experience with all the above-mentioned devices. I am a Deputy Sheriff and have also been a Correctional Officer with the Florida State prison system.

Knives are a good weapon but they can get you in a lot of legal trouble but a women being attacked by a man can damn near get away with anything in protecting herself.

Tazer hand held is nice especially the more noise they make but you have to get close to use them. Projectile Tazers are illegal in most states except for law enforcement personnel.

Pepper sprays can be good but there are so many trashy ones out there that you better get a good one. I do not recommend foam because it was designed to be used in jails and prisons due to confined areas and recirculating air systems so it doesn't have the reach you want. Also don't get a mist type either cause a small breeze and it's not going where you want it and might end up in your face.

The only type I recommend especially for women is a jet spray type because they have distance capabilities and are less deterred by a breeze and actually have a little punch that hits the attacker in the face.

Don’t forget that attackers on drugs and alcohol don’t respond to pain the way a normal person does and all of these external weapons might not be effective at all against them.
So just remember no matter what type of external weapon you use it's just an extension of yourself and should never be relied upon unconditionally and you should use them as a distraction or hold break and then escape.

Sincerely,
Teacher: Eddie Ivester

[Monty]

@ICT:
I notice that you only comment on the effectiveness of these weapons, not on the oportunity to ever get the weapon out in the first place.
I never really doubted their effectiveness, but I honestly doubt that there's time to find that pepper spray in a handbag, once the attacker is there.

Even if he's not jumping you right away, once you reach for something in your bag, he's more likely to jump you, than run away.

What is your opinion on the time span in which a defender will have to find that weapon ?
How fast will an attacker travel 10 feet ?

I realize that eg. belt buckle knives are fast, but how about a weapon that's in a bag or a pocket ?

[Matt_Bernius]

Monty,

You raise a good point. Part of any self defense training regiment needs to be practicing drawing and bringing the weapon to bare.

However, and maybe ICT can speak to this, it's my understanding that most self defense situations begin with some form of verbal exchange/confrontation. This includes women self defense. In most cases the victem in first approached by the attacker, there's some sort of exchange and then things escallate.

The self defense system that I've had some experience with makes a huge deal about being aware of your surroundings, the impression that your giving off and how people are reacting to you. In a lot of cases people deny that someone may be "casing" them (the "this can't be happening to me" mentality). I think there's a lot more time to ready yourself for self defense than most people think. But you need to be able to admit to yourself early that you are in a potential self defense situation.

- Matt

[Monty]

@rockOn_Matt

Exactly. I agree with you on most of what you say.

And it's true that most attacks are initiated after some type of verbal confrontation.
That would maybe give you the time to find the weapon.
But it's also grounds for another of my concerns:
A verbal confrontation could in many cases be ended simply by screaming. If you reach for some kind of weapon hidden in a bag, that might be the spark that actually forces the attacker to jump you.
He's after your $50, and if he can talk you into handing them over, he's happy (at least in some cases anyway).
He's NOT happy to see you're going for that 357 Magnum in your bag !
So, he HAS to jump you before you can get the gun out.

I know it's a more or less primitive way of describing the problem as I see it, but I hope you understand my point :)

[Matt_Bernius]

I uderstand what you're saying. Understanding the verbal component of escalation is important, because it helps in developing a defense. Technically, even before the verbal engagement there's a psychological engagement. Example of this: you see the person on the street and sense their intent to panhandle you at least a block before you got to them. Once you acknowledge that's your entering a possibly hostile situation you can begin to work to defuse it (and be prepared to escalate as need be).

There are two things that attckers fear (excluding those with mental illnesses)
- Getting Hurt
- Getting Caught
Anything that you can do to suggest that this is a possibility or probability will help defuse the situation.

So by using that early awareness to get ready, it's possible to avoid the situation:
- Verbally confront the person at a distance to demonstrate awareness (ie: Turn and ask "You following me?")
- Move into a well lit or well trafficed area (store, major street)
- Find and prepare your mace, etc.

The more you can emotionally, pschologically and physically bring to bare prior to the confrontation, the better chances you have of avoiding/surviving it.

- Matt

[Monty]

@rockOn_Matt:

I totally agree.
This phase of self defense is widely neglected, and people are concentrating too much on the phase where there's no other option than physically defending themselves.

In our self defense classes we try to highten awareness of how you move, how you dress, where you walk and such. Just to take it one step further and avoid the situations entirely.
Of course we're not telling our student to dress boringly, or to never go out for a drink. But we do teach them to be aware of the signals they're sending.

And as you point out, the phase where it narrows down to an escalating situation. I completely agree with you on what you said :)
But again, we're teaching our student a lot about body language, choice of words, and such.
Because the REALLY critical point is the second the attacker realizes he's been spotted, and someone's gonna act on it.

That's the reason I wanted to point out about the attacker's reaction, when you dive for the weapon.
Keep your cool, and don't go for the weapon unless you're absolutely 100% sure you're gonna make it.
That is definately not the time to make a fumble !

[ICT]

Monty,

The question of being maced and the tazer thing was what I was responding to and my response was on my experience and use of the items and not on deploying them.

However that is another intricate detail to carrying and using such external weapons.

Unless one is psychic then they can’t be prepared for every blind-sided attack that can occur. Some altercations do start out verbal and others don't, so one needs to be prepared and trained for both situations. That is why I don't like to just hand a women a can of Pepper Spray and say this will protect you, go get'em. Can it, Yes. Will it, Maybe.

It does depend on how one carries it and also how one deploys it. In some cases these types of weapons can be used first and then hand to hand tactics employed or vice versa but yea I've never thought it a good idea to throw one of these type weapons into a purse and sling it over their shoulder and they think they’re going to be able to pull it out and use it during an attack.

That is why I think that a women’s self-protection class should cover hand to hand and weapons training. The more types of weapons a person have the more chances they have that one will protect them. Without getting into the Law Enforcement ‘Use Of Force Matrix” Police have Hand To Hand Tactics, Baton, Pepper Spray and a Firearm, that’s 4 types of weapons their trained with and carry.

Sincerely,
Teacher: Eddie Ivester

[Monty]

@ICT,

Thank you for elaborating on your viewpoints.
Basically we do agree then :)

I just thought it needed to be pointed out that carrying a weapon does not defend you. You defend yourself, using weapons or not.
And relying completely on a weapon would be wrong.

[KickChick]

Thought I would let you all check out pics and soundbytes of people getting zapped by tasers.

A local radio station sent one of their on-air personalities to a local police dept. to feel what it is like to to get zapped with 50,000 volts of electricity.

Getting zapped by Tasers (http://wplr.com/caj/log_2003_november_12_billy_taser.html)

[Monty]

I don't think anybody ever doubted the effect of a tazer.

My point is that no matter how effective a weapon might be ... it could be one that vaporizes the attacker in a split second for that matter ... it will not hurt an attacker if the weapon never leaves the purse or pocket.
And in my opinion chances are it won't.

[KickChick]

Originally posted by Monty
I don't think anybody ever doubted the effect of a tazer.

Oh I know... just thought that you'd have to be a real idiot to subject yourself to having someone zap you for giggles.... just a funny side note to the thread.......

[Maximicus]

ANY weapon that is not in YOUR COMPLETE control during the ENTIRE confrontation is your enemy just as much as the attacker. he weapon is either with you or against you. Since you can't (legaly and sanely) go around brandishing a sword or machine gun the best weapon is YOU!!! Punch, Kick Bite, Scratch, Head butt, Scream, Thrash about like a crazy person. If the attacker is trying to rape you Pee in your pants!! Do any thing and everything you can, just dont expect them to wait while you charge the bateries or load your gun or find something to use. If it's not in your hand from the begining, it's (probably) not useful.

[hkphooey]

A female police officer in New Albany, In tried to use her tazer on a knife wielding teen came at her. Tazer did not fire and after being stabbed in the shoulder and neck she put several new holes in his body.

You also have to hope for a good shot and for the '*****y things' (technical talk) to hit and stick. The tests that I have seen they place the prongs on the person standing still.

Though they could be effectively employed, don't bet your life on them. Practice your h2h and do scenarios where your tazer fails and you bash the attacker in the head with it.

Thanks for the link KC, I haven't been hit with one but I hope to have a chance some time down the road.



Ken

[Maximicus]

"Thanks for the link KC, I haven't been hit with one but I hope to have a chance some time down the road."






OOOOooooo..................Kay!
:confused:

[LexS]

American Police: "Stop or I'll shoot !"


British Police: "Stop or I'll -toot- !" Pweep ! Pweep !


There are several brands of Mini-MagLite (AA battery) look-alikes now at 6.5 - 7". Great yawara stick substitute. Yes, you will have to hang on to it but it'll provide focused impact better than a hammer fist, reverse hammer fist, or punch. Male or female. And little or no damage to the hand.

"Against the law to protect yourself". That kind of legal thinking has never set well with me so I take on the risk of ignoring it vs. the risk of potential assault under certain circumstances.

Even in the UK, their legal system could never prove you were carrying a flashlight with an intent of hurting someone.

[Monty]

*LOL*

And searching for that MagLite in your pocket, just seemed to be the right thing to do, as that thug jumped your face i broad daylight !

No, seriously ....
It's never against the law to defend yourself. But there may very well be restrictions as to the degree in which you do so.
I've often heard people stating that in case of an attack, they wouldn't really care what the law says.
To me that's plain stupid.
Why not try to understand the law, and adapt your training to fit that law ?

Ignoring the law is one certain way to help the attacker out of legal punishment, and legal self defense techniques need in no way to be less effective that illegal ones, as long as they are practised with self defense AND the following legal acts in mind, and not just "winning the fight" and not caring what comes after that.

[Maximicus]

No way to prove it? Gee, I guess the Govn't has NOOO way to see internet forums as evidence *hint* *hint*.

[Hannibal]

"Intent" is covered in the interview of a suspect. In my experience the vast majority of people that I have interviewed convict themselves not so much by what they have done as by what they have said.

"I just panicked and I was in fear for my life. I lashed out in blind panic as I was being robbed and that is all I can really remember". This is a lot more impressive than "This little git tried to mug me so I chinned him and then hit again on the way down". I am not saying that MORALLY the second person was in the wrong, but "the law" has to be blind.

I am sure UK posters do not need to be reminded of Tony Martin.

Lex - we don't have whistles anymore! ANyway you cannot shoot someone for running away. British Police tend to shout "Stop or when I catch hold of you you'll get a good kicking for making me break a sweat" ....(please note this is joke!):D

Monty raises a good point - why would you need a torch in you pocket in broad daylight? That would suggest to me as an investigator INTENT for the maglite.

[David]

I was once attacked in my home by gangsters who were led to believe I was a drug dealer. At one point I came up brandishing a huge bayonet which I believed I'd use in such situations.

Just holding it caused them to back off, but still I was trapped in the room. Very soon, they (and I) realised I had no will to use the damn thing - the sudden realisation drained me of ALL my will, like shock or something. They ended up beating me up and left taking the knife with them.

I felt like a complete idiot and I'm not going down that path again unless the situation gets really serious.

Rgds,
David

[Hannibal]

A very valuable lesson David, thanks for sharing that with us all. I am glad you were not hurt too badly in the circumstances.

Any weapon is only as good as it's wielder. To use an analogy, I can give you eggs, sugar, flour and milk - but that doesn't mean you can bake a cake

[Matt_Bernius]

David,

Thank you for sharing. One important aspect of teaching self defense is discussing hwo far someone is willing to go (as in your situation). That personally is something that I've been mulling over for years. I've finally made peace with the answer for myself: as far as I need to protect my loved ones and myself. But that statement and understanding has taken me years to get to.

Sorry to hear that happened to you.

- Matt

[heat1012000]

personally i believe that no-one should carry weapons like knives and mace. They get too easily used and could be used against an innocent person thats just caught you by surprise. If a person has gone out and has it in their bag then they usually hold it in their hand just waiting to use it. You could have dropped something and a passer by taps you on the shoulder. in return you give him a full shot of mace. Nice!!!
If mace will knock you for six then imagine what a stab to the gut would do. Its easy to mistake an accident for an attack and lash out.

MISTAKES HAPPEN SO LEARN FROM THEM

[David]

You're most welcome to my lesson :). It took a while to get over it emotionally and psychologically. That experience almost certainly helped steer me to MA and I'm pleased about where I am.

Regarding women and dangerous situations - it grieves me that girls and women wear clothes that can only be a liability in an emergency. I'm thinking platform and high-heeled shoes, long skirts and dresses mainly but even a handbag can be a liability if you have to run.

Socialogical conditioning has rendered the greater proportion of women effectively disabled by their clothes. There is a case of abdication of personal responsibility to answer: why do they (you?) render yourself helpless, constrain yourself in such a way?

Some aspects of Life are serious and this is one of them. Please don't accuse me of saying women are literally 'asking' to be raped' etc: that is not my opinion and not what I have said. What I am saying is that such people are asking for trouble (in the figurative sense) by not taking fundamental precautions against the statistical (real) possiblity of being involved in a bad situation.

Even as a man, I apply this rule to myself. I abhor wearing a suit/tie. A suit would preclude me from being happy to get on the ground and look under my car for a fault. A tie seems to me to be ludicrous: it's a garrot, a leash and a general safety hazard in that it can get caught in machinery etc. Smart shoes generally have no grip and offer poor support. For me, it's all about practicality and function.

Rgds,
David.

[Ghost Frog]

Originally posted by ICT
Don’t forget that attackers on drugs and alcohol don’t respond to pain the way a normal person does and all of these external weapons might not be effective at all against them.

This is a really good point from ICT.

My partner is also in the police (but in the UK), and, although they are issued with CS gas, has said that the times when you would be most likely to use it, i.e. on somebody who is excessively violent due to drugs or psychological problems, it doesn't work.

And also it's easy to gas yourself during a struggle, which is probably a good point to bear in mind with other weapons, as well, as David has suggested.


P.S. Sorry to hear about that incident David.

[stickgirl]

hiya
I agree with david
when helping to teach classes, i would advise the women in the class to try to avoid getting in the situation in the first place. however on a night out it is scary to see women who are so drunk that they cant even stand up, let alone defend themselves, weapon or not. When i suggested to some of the girls that i worked with that they took a flat pair of shoes to the club (the reason why cloakrooms were invented) their opinion was no need, it will never happen to me.
Im not saying dont go out and have fun, but at least take time to think how you will get home, dont walk by yourself etc.
personally even thou i have done a bit of knife work i really wouldnt want to use it on some one, it would really have to be my last resort. i would have major issues stabbing/killing someone even if they were attacking me.
cheers

[David]

yeah stickgirl, I was hoping to think of a way that my post didn't sound like I was stamping on fun. Cloakrooms is the answer :).

I'm back on this thread with a link to a news story in the Guardian newspaper (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-3651708,00.html).

Rgds,
Davod

[hkphooey]

Proper training brings proper use. At least 90% of the times.
thousands of women have fended off rapist that have not had any prior training. It is a matter of will. You can't always be successful, but you'll never be if you don't give it everything you have.


I was once attacked in my home by gangsters who were led to believe I was a drug dealer. At one point I came up brandishing a huge bayonet which I believed I'd use in such situations.
Just holding it caused them to back off, but still I was trapped in the room. Very soon, they (and I) realised I had no will to use the damn thing - the sudden realisation drained me of ALL my will, like shock or something. They ended up beating me up and left taking the knife with them.

First let me say that if this happened, then I'm glad you made it out OK.
Gnagsters attacked you in your home because they thought you were a drug dealer. Hummm, and you didn't fight to defend your life. Its not the weapons fault that you didn't have any will to survive, it wouldn't have matter what you had. That is why they took the knife.

[David]

Originally posted by hkphooey
Its not the weapons fault that you didn't have any will to survive, it wouldn't have matter what you had. That is why they took the knife.

TBH, I took the risk that I'd get out of it OK just by letting them get on with it. I was defeated by the knife-realisation and then slipped into victim compliance.

The fine details of what was said, done and thought would go some way to mitigate your negative appraisal but your point is valid. I had managed to call for help from the windows so I had expectation/hope of a Police response and after my deflation, it seemed wise to help them go along with their business. They were looking for 'my' drugs and money rather than seeking to knecap em or worse.

Helluva risk to take, nonetheless. It was a Sunday morning and I'd only been asleep about 2 hours when the guy knocked...

Rgds,
David

[abby]

I almost always carry a knife. I don't carry it for self defence though, I carry it because it seems I always need to open/cut things and never have anything to do it with. (I wouldn't hesitate to use it if someone was trying to rape me though. It wouldn't do much damage, but maybe surprise them enough to have them loosen their grip for a few seconds so I could run away.) I keep it clipped on my back pocket for easy access.

Here's the model I own. It's a Kershaw Scallion 1620. Nice assisted opening feature too. (pic came off a retail site, not my pic.)

[grimel]

Originally posted by heat1012000
they get too easily used and could be used against an innocent person thats just caught you by surprise. If a person has gone out and has it in their bag then they usually hold it in their hand just waiting to use it.

What? The biggest problem is getting people to understand the weapon isn't worth a flip if you do NOT have ready access to it. Getting someone to actually USE even mace is a PITA.

Yes, I've been maced, can't say it even began to stop me (boot camp gas house). Like everything else it isn't 100%.

Tazers - see above.

Knife - in your heart of hearts do you think you can REALLY carve someone up? (see David's post) If not don't carry it.

It wouldn't do much damage, but maybe surprise them enough to have them loosen their grip

Tell me you are kidding. Take a good look at an anatomy chart. Realize the blade will go deeper than it's length on a full force thrust (body compression). I'd almost garooonteee they loosen their grip IF you started full force thrusts to the torso and/or slashes to the face.

[migo]

The scallion is nice, although the lock could make it a pain to deploy quickly (I've got a scallion and a blackout), especially under stress, I'm thinking the Mini-Mojo would be better for that.

On Mace, I've only carried it for bears, the dog I had with me was much more use, the bloody mace blew back into my face.

[Poogle]

Monty raises a good point - why would you need a torch in you pocket in broad daylight? That would suggest to me as an investigator INTENT for the maglite.


'Hey Poogle, how's it going?'

'OK, I'm just in town doing a little shopping in broad daylight. Going home in a few mins'.

'Hey, we're all headed out to dinner and then to the cinema, want to come?'

'Sure, ok'.

<Five hours later>

'Oh no, Poogle, it's dark, are you going to be ok getting home?'

'Yeah, no worries, I always carry a torch in my my handbag in case I ever need it'.

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[tellner]

Considering how much stuff I carry around in my pockets (seven kilos at last count) a flashlight wouldn't even be remarkable. For that matter, neither would Jimmy Hoffa, George Bush's service records and the Lost Ark of the Covenant.

[migo]

Sometimes you're also indoors with the lights off.