How do you define JKD?

[Yama Tombo]

Well..?

[LS]

JKD : Jeet Kune Do - cantonese; Jeet - stop ; Kune - Fist ; Do - way or ultimate reality

there it is .. JKD defined. ;) :D

[Yama Tombo]

I guess I should be more specific. Do you think it's more of a Martial Art or Philosophy?

And in my study it was "Way of Intercepting Fist"

[Matt_Bernius]

Jeet Kun Do = Philosophy (and Bruce translated it as "way of the intercepting fist"). It's all theory, no hard and fast techinque (ie. here are the specific mechanics of a technique).

Jun Fan = Martial Art (Created by Bruce, propogated by Dan Inasanto and others). This is heavily influenced by Wing Chun and Western Boxing (amoung other arts).

JKD is layered on top of Jun Fan (or any other martial art) as a method of reaching a personal expression for martial arts. Or at least that is the method that Inasanto affiliates differentiate things. Hence they teach Jun Fan as the martial art and teach Jeet Kun Do as the concept. I'm not sure if Linda Lee and the JKD nucleus treat things the same way.

I tend to think the Inasanto method is the proper way based on my research.

[LS]

oh okay to me ..

It is a martial art. .. which has principles and philosophical tenets, along with physical techniques which help form a coherent framework or system. that is at least how i see the totality of JKD.

[Terry Matthes]

Nooooooooooo it's not, its a philopshy. You can do Karate and practice JKD, you can be a boxer and practice JKD. You can be a Chef and practice JKD. Here is a quote straight from bruce lee:

"Jeet Kune Do favors formlessness so that it can assume all forms and since Jeet Kune Do has no style, it can fit in with all styles. As a result, Jeet Kune Do utilizes all ways and is bound by none, likewise, uses any techniques or means which serve it's end."

Yeah that's right you MMA haters out there; bruce lee was a mixed martial artist :P I know Stump will gimme a high five, who else?

[Andrew Green]

JKD = A name

something neccessary for marketing

All businesses have a name, as do there products

[Cain]

Nooooooooooo it's not, its a philopshy. You can do Karate and practice JKD, you can be a boxer and practice JKD. You can be a Chef and practice JKD.

Last time I said that Yoda slapped my wrists ;)

If you are not doing Jun Fan Gung Fu then you have no right to call it JKD, calling it JKD must have the linage under of Bruce Lee :D

|Cain|

[Terry Matthes]

If you are not doing Jun Fan Gung Fu then you have no right to call it JKD, calling it JKD must have the linage under of Bruce Lee I think that is exactley what Bruce Lee didn't want :) No tracing back to grandmasters and copying exactley what they did. Find out what works for you and keep it, disregard style and lineage.

JKD is an idea, but some people decided it also to be the replication of Bruce Lee's skill set; the JKD "style" (that is what most people call JKD nowadays). The idea can be applied to the "style" but the idea is not limited to the style as it can be applied to any style.

[Andrew Green]

It's just a word. A label.

It can be used to represent things, but has no intrinsic meaning.

For some that means lineage, others Jun Fan, others techniques sets, others philosophy......

But "JKD" is nothing, just a label. Can be used to represent things, as long as people understand what you mean when you use it your ok.

Lets say we are playing cards and we got chips:

Red = 1
White = 5
Black = 25

ok?

Now we go play somewhere else and all of a sudden:

Black = 1
Red = 5
White = 25

What happened? Someone doesn't understand what those coloured chips mean?

Who is right? who is wrong? Who cares?

They are just chips, don't mean anything except what you use them to mean.

[Cain]

Originally posted by Terry Matthes
I think that is exactley what Bruce Lee didn't want :) No tracing back to grandmasters and copying exactley what they did. Find out what works for you and keep it, disregard style and lineage.

JKD is an idea, but some people decided it also to be the replication of Bruce Lee's skill set; the JKD "style" (that is what most people call JKD nowadays). The idea can be applied to the "style" but the idea is not limited to the style as it can be applied to any style.

Bleh! I ain't going to argue on something which I have not even practised or know anything of other than websites/books.

Take a look yourself....

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1779

|Cain|

[sercuerdasfight]

andrew, you took all my ideas. good job.

[Andrew Green]

Originally posted by sercuerdasfight
andrew, you took all my ideas. good job.

You have our sympathy...

:D

[Matt_Bernius]

I just pulled this from the forum Cain linked to. This is a great overview on the relationship between Jun Fan and Jeet Kun Do (better than my hasty one above.

Originally posted by pesilat
The essence of your statement is accurate. Some of the details are off, though.

Bruce Lee didn't study Jun Fan ... he created Jun Fan. "Lee Jun Fan" was his given name. "Jun Fan Gung Fu" was his own system. As far as I know, the only formal training he ever had was in Wing Chun. He studied (on his own and through playing with practitioners, but wasn't formally a student of them) a bunch of different things ... and read whatever he could find on any martial art he could. He studied videos of fights (especially Ali).

So, Jun Fan Gung Fu was his own system that he put developed from his training in Wing Chun and his exposure to various other arts. Some major influences in Jun Fan are, of course, Wing Chun, but also western boxing, fencing, some Savate, and some other Chinese arts (there may be others but these are the ones that I hear most commonly referred to as influences on the development of Jun Fan). Jun Fan was developed by Bruce as a sort of "vehicle" to help the students find their own "Jeet Kune Do."

Mike

[pesilat]

Originally posted by rockOn_Matt
I just pulled this from the forum Cain linked to. This is a great overview on the relationship between Jun Fan and Jeet Kun Do (better than my hasty one above.

Wow - that quote is great! I couldn't have said it better myself ... wait, I did say it myself :p

And in response to Terry's post:

JKD is an idea, but some people decided it also to be the replication of Bruce Lee's skill set; the JKD "style" (that is what most people call JKD nowadays). The idea can be applied to the "style" but the idea is not limited to the style as it can be applied to any style.

I've said this before in another thread here, too (but am too lazy to go dig it up - yet, strangely, not too lazy to type out the gist again, boy I'm kinda odd :) )

Anyway, personally, I think someone should have the lineage to claim "JKD." Yes, they may utilize the same philosophy. But people are going to assume some relationship to BL if the name is used. So for someone to use the name and not have lineage is, IMO, a misrepresentation (at best).

Why would anyone without the lineage want to call what they do "JKD"? The only reason I can see is that they want to cash in on the commercial value of the name. To me, that's not quite kosher.

For all these reasons, I don't consider myself a JKD man. I've had a fair amount of exposure to Jun Fan and can speak the basic lingo of the system pretty well. But I've never formally trained in Jun Fan and it didn't have any kind of pivotal effect on my martial arts training. But I do espouse the philosophy completely and it's how I train. But my core is a blend of Kali and Silat not Jun Fan. So I don't consider myself a JKD man. And I don't call what I do JKD.

Mike

[Tireces]

You can only be doing JKD if what you are training emphasizes things JKD emphasizes. How can you be practicing the "way of the intercepting fist" if you cant intercept in the slightest? What if what you are doing is just making things more and more complex instead of narrowing down? I thought he said "the art of jeet kune do is simply to simplify". What happened to that? I dont think he said anywhere "the art of jeet kune do is simply to train in a gajillion different martial arts, read the tao of jeet kune do, and youre all set". Jeet Kune Do is not just about training in multiple styles, if you think it is, youre already limited to thinking of things in terms of style. Thats my take on it.

[pesilat]

Here's the way I defined JKD in that other thread (and still how I define it):


I may have misinterpreted what I've read/heard, but I think Bruce's original intent was to develop a new system. He developed Jun Fan. But, along the way, he realized that he had developed something uniquely his own (which he later labeled "JKD") and realized that it was impossible to codify it or teach it.

Jun Fan became a vehicle that each student could use to find his/her own "JKD."

So ... Jun Fan is a system that can be taught. JKD is a concept that each student must find for his/herself.

Bruce and, as such, JKD, was all about exploration.

JKD isn't about collecting. It's about refining. But, in order to refine, you must first collect the raw material. I think some people get lost in the collection stage and never get around to the refining stage. They become "jacks of many, masters of none" and, unfortunately, some of this misguided group have become very vocal and, as such, have caused many people to think that that's what JKD is ... i.e.: collecting and becoming a jack of many, master of none.


Mike

[Cain]

Thanx Mike, I knew I could use the backup of you big dudes here :D

|Cain|

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Cain
Thanx Mike, I knew I could use the backup of you big dudes here :D

|Cain|

LOL. Me, a big dude? I'm just a little kid swinging a stick and hoping to hit the pinata so I can get my candy ;)

Mike

[Cain]

ROFL!!! Stay away from candy, you were on a diet remember? ;)








:D

|Cain|

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Cain
ROFL!!! Stay away from candy, you were on a diet remember? ;)

Bah! I've fallen off the wagon for the time being and am running along behind trying to catch up to it. I'll catch it, I know, but in the meantime, I'm enjoying the decadence ;)

Mike

[Yama Tombo]

I never said how I define Jeet Kune Do. Jeet Kune Do as I define it was more than just training the body to fight. It was a way for learning endlessly like Bruce Lee said,"Everything of Yesterday must die; Tomorrow must be renew and refreshed." Bruce Lee welcomed other people to improve on Jeet Kune Do and to carry it further.
And he aimed for people to break boundaries and making a new person out of the individual who studied it. Bruce Lee favored those who "led people out of the cave and into the light." Which Bruce Lee did, he had a back injury which he used as proof to doctors that it was possible to recover, because they told him not to fight anymore; he taught people of different colors even when other chinese people forbid him to; he did not want to train people he felt would use the martial art for bad. Did Bruce Lee contribute only to martial arts with training and philosophy? You be the judge of that.

[littlebird]

I admire Bruce Lee. I admire Royce Gracie, Jack Dempsey, Rocky Marciano, and other great fighters. I have watched the films, and videos over and over. All were great but how do we ourselves relate to them? How do we try to become them to emulate them?

:)

Now my thougts on JKD and what I understand.

I think that Bruce Lee had the idea that no style was perfect. If a style was supposedly perfected, then another style could and would be invented that would exploit its weaknesses, and so on and on.

Bruce decided that "no style" was the way to go and therefore he picked and chose those elements from all the other styles that he liked with "simplicity of movement" being one of the criteria of choice.
He wanted an economy of movement which would bring about optimum quickness. The quickness that would allow the intercepting fist.

Another central idea of JKD then as I understand it was that you didn't have to pick the elements that Bruce did. You could pick what appealed to you, what your body best adapted to, what you were best at. In this sense JKD was a principle, a philosophy.

Once all these elements and some of them of course would be common to what others used were organized and practiced then that became the JKD version or Art that "you" practiced.

That collection of elements became your JKD.

[LeeGreg89]

think of jeet kune do as a white color it will match with anything

[LeeGreg89]

think of jeet kune do as a white color it will match with anything
:)

[Maximicus]

IMHO your all right. Jeet Kune Do itself is the philosophy. You can follow a philosophy, but you can't train in a philosophy. Jeet Kune Do is not a martial art the same way Bushido isn't a martial art. Anyone can follow JKD, but it would be haphazard if anyone could claim to teach JKD. There are to many McDojos claiming to teack "KARATE/KUNG FU" and being a watered down half tae bo form of loose TKD. If anyone could legaly claim to teach JKD just from reading a book, well i'd say what i'd think about that but the mods wouldn't care for it.:D

[Bigfoot]

There have been, and will probably always be, many different views as to what BL ment by his system/style of training called JKD. How we can contend to know what he ment is like how a preacher surmons on the Bible. No one knows what BL or God ment, other than BL or God. The difference beeing that the Bible has been around a little bit longer than The Tao of Jeet Kune Do. So it gives us turmoil sometimes. Many have fought over the interperatations of the Bible, causing much greif. Must we also fight over what BL ment with his system?
That being said, I too have my own believes as to what JKD is. I think that anyone who tries to improve their technique with an open mind, that learns from all encountered, whether experienced in the martial arts or not, is a practitioner of JKD, at least in part in the essence of what JKD is.
I also believe that to be a student of JKD, that one must first have some base martial art/training, preferably several. Otherwise there will be nothing to "take away" from. "Taking away", does not nesciserrily have to mean that you are not allowed to use what you have learned, but rather that you have to be open to use new ideas, rather than only that which you already now. I do not like the idea of emptying the cup to give room for new knowledge, but would rather encourage people to get a bigger cup so they may aquire new knowledge in addition to that they already have.

[Bigfoot]

CONTINUED

The beginner often lacks the steadfastness to continue training a technique/movement/idea, if he cannot see the usefulness of it, especially if the movement is demanding. This is where a qualified teacher is essential. In the case of JKD, however, most basics should already be learned before starting formal training. This will ensure that the JKD instructor can focus on his job. An instructor of JKD should not teach, but rather suggest alternatives, so that one can find what works best for oneself. How can one learn what is best for oneself (the essence of JKD – use what works, discard the useless) if another (the instructor) is telling you how to stand, how to punch, how to kick, how to breath, how to move, how to block ect.? These movements may be what is best for the instructor, but it is the student’s journey. It is the student that has to find his way on the path to effectiveness. This is very difficult if the student does not have prior experience.

A true practitioner of JKD is a student of details, one who is aware of not only himself and his opponent, but his surroundings as well. The true practitioner will always strive to improve not only his technique, but his knowledge and his knowledge of his opponent’s technique. The JKD student will always be learning and studying new methods while experimenting with both new and old thoughts of movement. He will never be stagnant nor content, but like a wave, he will be in constant movement always trying to come further in his pursuit of improvement, not disregarding the useful on a whim for the next best idea, while not holding onto the useless for the sake of nostalgia.

The Student of Jeet Kune Do is a student of life.

[Yukimushu]

How do I define jeet kune do? Using a single simple word... " Infinate... "

[Maximicus]

"I do not like the idea of emptying the cup to give room for new knowledge, but would rather encourage people to get a bigger cup so they may aquire new knowledge in addition to that they already have."

I agree, let's make some MA cocktails!:D

The concept is to think outside the box. If your a Karateka, you shouldn't HAVE to ONLY use/know the "Hard" Karate style (tho you should use only what your learning in class), you should alow yourself to try other ways of doing things, like maybe a Southern Kung Fu style has a blocking style that suits YOU better. Bruce Lee wanted people to understand that its not the "style" that determines whether you are a "good" MA, it's YOU. YOU are doing the "style", not vice versa.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

MA cocktails huh?

Quick kick in the balls
1 measure light rum
1 measure vodka
1 measure lemon juice

Swift kick in the knee
1 measure lime juice
1 measure light rum
1 measure vodka
serve in a shot glass

Kia/Kiyap
4 measures vodka
3 measures cranberry juice
3 measures grape juice
4 measures cinnamon schnapps
serve in a tumbler

Side kick
2 measures dark rum
2 measures melon liquer
1 measure coconut cream
2 measures orange juice
2 measures double cream

Right, I'm done now. :D

[Dooby]

I think that is exactley what Bruce Lee didn't want :) No tracing back to grandmasters and copying exactley what they did. Find out what works for you and keep it, disregard style and lineage.

First off long time reader first time writer, really enjoy the web site. :)

I agree If you read the last pages of TJKD its there written in black and white, its just a name for describing the fighting form Bruce researched. JKD in my eyes is the name I use to describe an evloving form of scientific fighting, using whater works for whatever given situation that i may be in at any given time. I am constantly adpating trying to improve and be more economical with my movement whilst providing maximum damage.

Just another point though has anyone felt that these questions from the first threads are going round in circles?

[tel]

jkd is concepts,to allow people to grow individially,jun fan is the base system,

[silentwarrior]

Personally i think of JKD as cross training, because that is basically what it is. you are just training in various martial arts and slapping a name on it. it will be diffrent where ever you go.

[James Kovacich]

Mike Casto's post was the closest to what the true Senior JKD instructors will tell you. A 2nd generation instructor who has a differant view does not matter as much unless he has the same view as his 1st generation instructor.

About the books. They were all compiled after his death except his Chinese Gung Fu and Fighting Method books.

A definition shouldn't be needed provided we have faith in our instructors.

[tel]

Mike Casto's post was the closest to what the true Senior JKD instructors will tell you. A 2nd generation instructor who has a differant view does not matter as much unless he has the same view as his 1st generation instructor.


.
why does it matter if a 2nd generation student is different from a first,if u are not allowed to change then this is clearly not jkd,if bruce lee thought the original jkd stuff was he best thing since sliced bread why did he change it to concepts,he changed himself all the time til his death,the people to this day who say that bruce lee's art that he taught them should not changed and they complain that dan inosanto is wrong in doing this,but its strange that he chalked up more training time than any other person and most first generation students apart from taky ,and james lee, are dan inosanto students both taky k and james L who both never learned jkd when bruce changed it. if there is 5 jkd students in a row then they should not look the same even if they learn the same material

[James Kovacich]

why does it matter if a 2nd generation student is different from a first,if u are not allowed to change then this is clearly not jkd,if bruce lee thought the original jkd stuff was he best thing since sliced bread why did he change it to concepts,he changed himself all the time til his death,the people to this day who say that bruce lee's art that he taught them should not changed and they complain that dan inosanto is wrong in doing this,but its strange that he chalked up more training time than any other person and most first generation students apart from taky ,and james lee, are dan inosanto students both taky k and james L who both never learned jkd when bruce changed it. if there is 5 jkd students in a row then they should not look the same even if they learn the same material
It's not a put down on anybody. Just 2nd and 3rd generation seem to drift away from their Sifu. I'm guilty too!

The instructors closer to Bruce have the best understanding of what Bruce wanted and that was what was important. Mike, I know has some training under Dan through seminars and maybe that's where he picked it up from but that's what I agree with.

Not the contradictions that everybody reads in the books that were compiled after Bruces death. The books have quotes from that could be 10 years apart but on the same page.

Word of mouth from the Senior Sifu. Thats the truth.

[Florida Warlock]

Jeet Kune Do is also known as the 'Way of the Intercepting Fist'. One of Bruce Lee's famous sayings, also my signature, is 'Absorb what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own."

JKD is anything in martial arts you find useful. Of course I haven't been in JKD for a really long time..

About the above post, my sifu- sifu Duane Keller, trained with first generation students of Bruce Lee.

[Amnion]

I think what Jeet Kune Do is is not having a full cup. Once you think you have everything, your cup is full, and there is no room left for open-mindedness/improvement. If your cup is never full, you can always feel fulfilled when you come across new knowledge. I never thought I'd say this, but I know a Tae Kwon Do instructor, and regardless of my opinion of TKD, the old man knows a few things, and you bet your ass I absorb them like a sponge. Because I can take what he's saying and easily fuse it into all the other stuff I've learned.
And doesn't everybody simplify? If there's a technique you absolutely suck at, do you ever really use it when it all comes down? I don't know about anybody else, but I tend to use the simplest moves I know. The ones I can rely on.
That's what I think JKD is. Empty cup.

[YODA]

I think what Jeet Kune Do is is not having a full cup. Once you think you have everything, your cup is full, and there is no room left for open-mindedness/improvement. As a prominent FMA master once said to me - why not just get another cup and start filling that also? :D

Anyway - What is JKD?

JKD is many things.

JKD is a marketting tool used to draw students.

JKD is a paper trail.

JKD is a franchise operation.

Oh - and it can be a martial arts training process too :eek:

[tel]

As a prominent FMA master once said to me - why not just get another cup and start filling that also? :D

Anyway - What is JKD?

JKD is many things.

JKD is a marketting tool used to draw students.

JKD is a paper trail.

JKD is a franchise operation.

Oh - and it can be a martial arts training process too :eek:

agree it can be,but hopefully we all here on this website for the martial arts process bit

[Pat OMalley]

Well said Yoda
As a prominent FMA master once said to me - why not just get another cup and start filling that also? :D Hey we must have talked to the same guy:cool: I say why use a cup, get a Tea Urn and why empty the cup, the tea in it may well be better than whats on offer.

Anyway - What is JKD?

JKD is many things.

[QUOTE=YODA]JKD is a marketting tool used to draw students.and a mess of Classical martial arts, a bit of this here and a bit of that there makes for an exciting looking class, but as they say Jack of all trades makes a Master of none.

JKD is a paper trail. Yeah the type of paper you can buy things with.

JKD is a franchise operation. Absolutely and what a costly franchise it is too.

Oh - and it can be a martial arts training process too :eek: But only amoungst that rare few, the rest I feel use it to promote themselves via a famous film star who cannot question what they do, and many for some strange reason seem to think that if they hang around long enough, maybe, just maybe they will get to toutched a little of Bruce Lee and how his mind worked. This I am affraid ain't gonna happen.
By all means train and try to improve by what ever means possible, but just let the man rest in peace, after all how can you say you know what he wanted to do and how his style should progress, 99.9% of you have never even met the guy and the majority of those that have are only using his name to make themselves a name and after all we have only got their word for it of what BL did or did not do and what BL did or did not intend.

As I have said before JKD is now a STYLE in it's own right, it is just packaged differently.

Regards

Pat

[Amnion]

Amen, brother. And I was going to tell my instructor that I don't have a cup, I've got a 55-gallon barrel, but I don't think he was in the mood for that at the time. The contents of my container are going to end up like a long island iced tea from hell I think. It may end up being good, it may taste like sh*t but work really well, or it may be something that totally sucks, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[James Kovacich]

I think what everyone is leaving out is "actual training from a legitimate Jeet Kune Do Instructor." Without that connection it's just another mixed martial art. :D

[tel]

i suppose that jkd has become like all arts because we have to define it,but without defining it on a personal level could we truly understand what we are trying to do. its funny how view change when talking bout it,but that is a good thing bout website's like this,but we as 3rd 4th generation students/instructors can only go by the guidelines that are in books and through word of mouth by people like guro dan,bob breen,rick young in students in uk anyway,also don't think it matters where bruce lee would of taken it,cos we would be different anyway,

[James Kovacich]

i suppose that jkd has become like all arts because we have to define it,but without defining it on a personal level could we truly understand what we are trying to do. its funny how view change when talking bout it,but that is a good thing bout website's like this,but we as 3rd 4th generation students/instructors can only go by the guidelines that are in books and through word of mouth by people like guro dan,bob breen,rick young in students in uk anyway,also don't think it matters where bruce lee would of taken it,cos we would be different anyway,
So which 1 is your instructor? :D

[tel]

mainly guy called neil mcleod,and bob breen both instructors under guro dan inosanto,why's that,
p.s they are real deal,say that cos u might not of heard of them,cos your on other side of pond

[James Kovacich]

Because I have way more respect for those who are really training JKD than those who are just reading books and think they are practicing JKD. It does not matter if you teach, only that you are guided by a qualified guide.

I've heard Breens name, can't remember where. If you go here
http://www.forumco.com/pauljbax/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5674
or here
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/index.php?
you'll see in my "signature" how I really feel. It would not fit in my signature here but this is what it reads.

"If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it."
----- Bruce Lee -----

[Simplicity]

Akja, with all respect to you as a martial artist. I quote you " More respect for those who are really training in JKD then those who are just reading books. They think they are practicing JKD". Also, you said " It does not matter if you teach, only that you are guided by a qualified guide" Just what do you mean by these statements? Are you a instructor in JKD? If so, what generation 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th? Please read again what Mr. Lee said in your favorite quote from him.

[James Kovacich]

Akja, with all respect to you as a martial artist. I quote you " More respect for those who are really training in JKD then those who are just reading books. They think they are practicing JKD". Also, you said " It does not matter if you teach, only that you are guided by a qualified guide" Just what do you mean by these statements? Are you a instructor in JKD? If so, what generation 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th? Please read again what Mr. Lee said in your favorite quote from him.

I was trained by Felix Macias Jr. in the Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung Fu. He is 2nd generation but actually first started training under James Lee when he was young so by some he is considered to be 1st generation.

Im am still a student of Felix and he has given me permission to teach. Felix Macias Sr. was 1 of the most senior Oakland JKD students. They have they're own method and do not use the "label" of Jeet Kune Do and neither do I. I teach it along with my system of Kempo Ju Jitsu which is a recognized system by my instructors.

The "label" is not needed but as far as the truth in JKD "I" beleive that one needs to be guided by those that really know. That does not come from a book.

All of my info is on my site. On my Sifu / Sigung page there is a >pdf (adobe) file to click and read about the Maciases as published in Jeet Kune Do magazine.

And you could see my profile here
http://www.jkdbrotherhood.com/catalog.0.html.1.html

[James Kovacich]

Akja, with all respect to you as a martial artist. I quote you " More respect for those who are really training in JKD then those who are just reading books. They think they are practicing JKD". Also, you said " It does not matter if you teach, only that you are guided by a qualified guide" Just what do you mean by these statements? Are you a instructor in JKD? If so, what generation 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th? Please read again what Mr. Lee said in your favorite quote from him.

OK you're saying why would anyone listen to me because of my generation?

My Sifu grew up in JKD and we are like best friends. I can't help but think they way I was taught. He changed me from Karate to Modified Gung Fu and that was for the better. Thats why I say we need to somewhere close enough to the source.

[JKD_forever]

Original JKD is a style, more than just your philosophy.
As much as some claim otherwise, JKD is not what you want it to be. There are certain techniques to it and if you go against those techniques, you're not doing Jeet Kune do (This is a paradox Bruce wanted to avoid, but such things are impossible. The fact remains the same.) Sorry, you're not. If you take 7 different types of fighting, such as tkd, karate, muay thai, whatever, and mix them together, that’s not Jkd.
You can call it you philosophy of fighting, but that’s not JKD, just some crazy style of your own. JKD has its own way of doing punches, kicks, etc, body movements, not to mention footwork, which is unlike any ma footwork.
You must do JKD before you can add your own spices to it.
If JKD was just a philosophy than you could read it in some book, he wouldn’t certify people to teach his "JKD".

[tel]

[QUOTE=akja]I was trained by Felix Macias Jr. the Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung Fu. He is 2nd generation but actually first started training under James Lee when he was young so by some he is considered to be 1st generation.

Im am still a student of Felix has given me permission to teach. Felix Macias Sr. was 1 of the most senior Oakland JKD students. They have they're own method and do not use the "label" of Jeet Kune Do and neither do I. I teach it along with my system of Kempo Ju Jitsu which is a recognized system by my instructors.

what is the macias method of jun fan gung fu,the jun fan stuff is what bruce taught,how do u change that?,also james lee passed before bruce threw out the style and started to concentrate on concepts of fighting,

[Len]

It seems like after a while, people run out of questions about JKD so they start asking the same ones over and over. The easiest way to describe JKD is that it is basically the philosophies, concepts, and strategies that you use after you learn the base art of Jun Fan Gung Fu. Compare yourself to a painter. The primary colors you get and your pallete is Jun Fan Gung Fu. How you use those colors in combination to paint your own picture is the expression of Jun Fan Gung Fu. Soon after you get more colors (techniques from other arts outside of Jun Fan Gung Fu) and you start using certain colors more than others cause you favor certain colors or certain colors are more of a necessity in the kind of paintings you make. So you essentially introduce or add new colors and later on discard ones you don't use. Using the primary colors (base art of Jun Fan) and the new colors (your own research on what works for you) you start painting your own unique picture (your own JKD). Everyone that truly practices Jeet Kune Do practices their own version of it. If done correctly, no one's JKD is going to look exactly alike. But there will be certain similarities in some of the approaches that reflect the Jun Fan Gung Fu base art.

[tel]

sorry jkd forever are u saying that jkd is not concepts and that u can't change it?????

[James Kovacich]

[QUOTE=akja]I was trained by Felix Macias Jr. the Macias Method of Jun Fan Gung Fu. He is 2nd generation but actually first started training under James Lee when he was young so by some he is considered to be 1st generation.

Im am still a student of Felix has given me permission to teach. Felix Macias Sr. was 1 of the most senior Oakland JKD students. They have they're own method and do not use the "label" of Jeet Kune Do and neither do I. I teach it along with my system of Kempo Ju Jitsu which is a recognized system by my instructors.

what is the macias method of jun fan gung fu,the jun fan stuff is what bruce taught,how do u change that?,also james lee passed before bruce threw out the style and started to concentrate on concepts of fighting,

Don't confuse the Oakland Gung-Fu with what was taught in L.A. Heres Sifu's site. http://www.taoofgungfu.com/

On this page click the .pdf file link and you're questions will be answered.
http://www.scientific-streetfighting.com/SIFUSTORY.html

[tel]

It seems like after a while, people run out of questions about JKD so they start asking the same ones over and over. The easiest way to describe JKD is that it is basically the philosophies, concepts, and strategies that you use after you learn the base art of Jun Fan Gung Fu. Compare yourself to a painter. The primary colors you get and your pallete is Jun Fan Gung Fu. How you use those colors in combination to paint your own picture is the expression of Jun Fan Gung Fu. Soon after you get more colors (techniques from other arts outside of Jun Fan Gung Fu) and you start using certain colors more than others cause you favor certain colors or certain colors are more of a necessity in the kind of paintings you make. So you essentially introduce or add new colors and later on discard ones you don't use. Using the primary colors (base art of Jun Fan) and the new colors (your own research on what works for you) you start painting your own unique picture (your own JKD). Everyone that truly practices Jeet Kune Do practices their own version of it. If done correctly, no one's JKD is going to look exactly alike. But there will be certain similarities in some of the approaches that reflect the Jun Fan Gung Fu base art.

i agree with you totally

[James Kovacich]

It seems like after a while, people run out of questions about JKD so they start asking the same ones over and over. The easiest way to describe JKD is that it is basically the philosophies, concepts, and strategies that you use after you learn the base art of Jun Fan Gung Fu. Compare yourself to a painter. The primary colors you get and your pallete is Jun Fan Gung Fu. How you use those colors in combination to paint your own picture is the expression of Jun Fan Gung Fu. Soon after you get more colors (techniques from other arts outside of Jun Fan Gung Fu) and you start using certain colors more than others cause you favor certain colors or certain colors are more of a necessity in the kind of paintings you make. So you essentially introduce or add new colors and later on discard ones you don't use. Using the primary colors (base art of Jun Fan) and the new colors (your own research on what works for you) you start painting your own unique picture (your own JKD). Everyone that truly practices Jeet Kune Do practices their own version of it. If done correctly, no one's JKD is going to look exactly alike. But there will be certain similarities in some of the approaches that reflect the Jun Fan Gung Fu base art.
Very good! :)

[YODA]

I find it strange that, when questions of validation arise, JKD people tend to fall back on lineage, paper trails and "generations." The very things their founder was so set against :rolleyes:

[JKD_forever]

sorry jkd forever are u saying that jkd is not concepts and that u can't change it?????


I'm saying that if you don't actually train JKD, than you don't have a right to call what you train JKD.

[James Kovacich]

I find it strange that, when questions of validation arise, JKD people tend to fall back on lineage, paper trails and "generations." The very things their founder was so set against :rolleyes:
You know Bruce fought the traditions but in a way he is the one that started it all by creating a system in the first place was quoted as saying it was not a system.

People like my Sigung learned "The Art" and then when people say that there is no art. They are Saying that Sigung and Sifu have no art. I guess they were just philosiphers for the last 40 years. :D

His words & writings contradict big time but he was smart and a great tactician of the fighting arts.

[YODA]

His words & writings contradict big time but he was smart and a great tactician of the fighting arts.
I agree 100%

[tel]

I find it strange that, when questions of validation arise, JKD people tend to fall back on lineage, paper trails and "generations." The very things their founder was so set against :rolleyes:
i think its a case of having legit instructors that why limage is important in this case anyway,bruce lee must of thought it was important that someone can't just walk of the streeet can call what they do jkd otherwise,why would he give out instructorships,well the one to guro dan

[Simplicity]

Akja. I quote you again, " Ok you"re saying why would anyone listen to me because of my generation" Please Sir, Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that, and that is the main problem about JKD. He said, you said, I said. When are all of us going to stop this nonsense. Mr. Lee read books to get some of his basic knowledge, why wouldn't it be good for us. I'm sure you have read JKD books, haven't you? This is all I'm saying. A book is to the mind, what exercise is to the body. We have and can learn from a book, not everything though.

[Simplicity]

Teachers of the the martial art, will learn more about the MA. When they start teaching it. Knowledge isn't knowledge to you share it with another human being. But what do I know, I'm just being me!!!

[faster than you]

i think lee gave instuctorships more as a sign of respect and great compliment to his close friends rather than as an aknowldegement of fighting excellence. he never gave one to joe lewis though he was his best student. does this mean joe could not fight? no, lee knew joe was psycholigaclly beyond a certificate because joe knew he could fight. the others didn't...

[kungfufighter]

My opinion on JKD is that it really isn't a style, Bruce Lee created it and yet still worked on it during his years, i mean if he didn't die I'm sure it'd be a totally different and much much more pwoerful style today then it was. I think it was what Bruce Lee thought fighting should be like, it doesn't matter your style. Do what is most comfortable to you, do what you can to win, and so on...

[James Kovacich]

Akja. I quote you again, " Ok you"re saying why would anyone listen to me because of my generation" Please Sir, Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that, and that is the main problem about JKD. He said, you said, I said. When are all of us going to stop this nonsense. Mr. Lee read books to get some of his basic knowledge, why wouldn't it be good for us. I'm sure you have read JKD books, haven't you? This is all I'm saying. A book is to the mind, what exercise is to the body. We have and can learn from a book, not everything though.
I see the confusion now. I read books and watch videos. Thats not the problem, not even close. I was talking those that read JKD books, then call their art JKD without ever actually training in JKD from a legitimate Jun Fan Gung Fu or JKD instructor.

My point (if it was missed) was that the (JKD) books are confusing and for the untrained student without guidance it will more like be a mix of arts and not JKD.

My personal beleif any way is that as the art changes to much from their instructors teachings, the "JKD label" should be dropped. Does not matter who cares about what. But JKD gets a bad name because the public is mislead about the art / concept.

[domino8]

But JKD gets a bad name because the public is mislead about the art / concept.

Hi,

I tend to think JKD gets a bad name because it is the most fragmented and overtly political method in modern martial.

The irony that people involved in a method that preaches evolution are still arguing about a man who died 30 years ago is lost on many.

Undoubtedly there are people under the JKD banner that are exception exponents of their arts, but they are rare islands in a sea of ego and BS.

Cheers

Paul

[Simplicity]

I agree! Now I know what you where saying akja. If we are making apple pie and we need two more apples and we put in two pears instead. Don't call it a apple pie anymore. :)

[old timer]

I agree! Now I know what you where saying akja. If we are making apple pie and we need two more apples and we put in two pears instead. Don't call it a apple pie anymore. :)
What a fantastic answer that is, it just about sums up the argument what is what isn't JKD.

[getgoin]

How do I define JKD?

I don't.

I just train, thats all I have time for. I leave the definitions up others with more time than I have. Or maybe they have more time because they don't train as much as they should because people are thinking how to define something they should be doing instead.

[YODA]

How do I define JKD?

I don't.

I just train, thats all I have time for. I leave the definitions up others with more time than I have. Or maybe they have more time because they don't train as much as they should because people are thinking how to define something they should be doing instead.
*Applause* :D

[gqalan1]

JKD,
Acronym, Jeet Kune Do.
Way of the Intercepting Fist.
Created by Bruce Lee, student of Yip Man, Wing Chun Master.

Jeet Kune Do is not a form, or a style. It is a concept which each Martial Artist can find a way to defend themselves. Some people may have a favored side kick, or, a linear punch movement which is most natural. That will be there ultimate weapon. Not a spinning 540 kick which few people can do. Bruce Lee did not want to form a sect, or have people following his way. There is no way, no form, no style. Take what you like and take it to the extreme man. Have fun with it, and training to defend yourself. Competition that is why I play sports. Martial Arts is my way of life.

That is my idea of JKD.

[neb]

I think that is exactly what Bruce Lee didn't want :) No tracing back to grandmasters and copying exactly what they did. Find out what works for you and keep it, disregard style and lineage.

JKD is an idea, but some people decided it also to be the replication of Bruce Lee's skill set; the JKD "style" (that is what most people call JKD nowadays). The idea can be applied to the "style" but the idea is not limited to the style as it can be applied to any style.

too bloody right!

keep on the path of truth buddy!

[Tsumetai]

<refer to signature>

[neb]

Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon:

"Never take your eyes of your opponent, even when you bow"

Skip to the scene before he fights Ohara, notice anything about Bruce Lee when he bows?

Ha, this post has no point. Or does it? Ha!

[tel]

Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon:

"Never take your eyes of your opponent, even when you bow"

Skip to the scene before he fights Ohara, notice anything about Bruce Lee when he bows?

Ha, this post has no point. Or does it? Ha!
maybe a little pointless :)

[neb]

Unless you can read between the lines of course.

[tel]

still not a great way of defining jkd

[BJJ]

JKD = philosophy.

Its Bruce Lee 's Philosophy towards Martial Arts. Anyone could learn JKD from a book, or in other terms, anyone could learn the philosophy from a book. Bruce says, "I cant teach you how I punch, i can teach you how TO punch." If you already know how to punch, no point taking a JKD class :P. You may do another MA, so all you need to do now is learn JKD(philosopy) from something like Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Of course, you dont have to take classes to learn philosophy when you can just read the philosophy and use it.

[tel]

JKD = philosophy.

Its Bruce Lee 's Philosophy towards Martial Arts. Anyone could learn JKD from a book, or in other terms, anyone could learn the philosophy from a book. Bruce says, "I cant teach you how I punch, i can teach you how TO punch." If you already know how to punch, no point taking a JKD class :P. You may do another MA, so all you need to do now is learn JKD(philosopy) from something like Tao of Jeet Kune Do. Of course, you dont have to take classes to learn philosophy when you can just read the philosophy and use it.
sorry but that rubbish. you can't learn jkd principles and understand them from a book, you may get to know what the principles are but to understand them and apply them you need to learn from an instructor. plus to learn jkd you need to learn the jun fan system. the base art of jkd.
just because you know say karate can't just read a book and then say you know and can apply the concept of jkd.
take some jkd classes and then see

[tel]

it seems to me that people want to learn jkd but don't want to put the hard work in and want something easy from a book and use the excuse if they are doing something wrong, they just say its there jkd.
YOU CAN'T LEARN JKD FROM A BOOK :bang: :bang:

[BJJ]

Firstly, im talking about philosophy, not the system, in this case, Jun Fan. Philosophy CAN be learnt from a book, the system cant.

[neb]

ooooooh, he's got you there tel!

Obviously tel, im my honest opinion, you've just been convinced by your teachers that you need their classes to learn and appreciate JKD.

Well, I beg to differ.

I have experienced both sides of the coin, and honestly? Bruce Lee's ideas and philosophy come alive internally during my isolated training and "prefecting" of my methods. Watching someone tell me to punch this way (junfan style) doesn't feel any less styelised than watching, say, someone show me a karate punch and say 'this is power!'

[Pat OMalley]

Firstly, im talking about philosophy, not the system, in this case, Jun Fan. Philosophy CAN be learnt from a book, the system cant.You can read philosophy in a book, you can only understand it by doing one thing....
Hard work and training and the guidance of a good intructor who can show you were you are making mistakes.

In otherwords 'Books do not make you a better martial artist, training with expearianced people does'.

That is what Tel is trying to say I think any way.

I read many MA books and watch many MA videos, does that make me good or help me understand what it is all about, no, It gives me an insight, but like anything there is no substitute for the real thing.

If you just talk the talk, without walking the walk you will never really undertsand what it is all about.

But hey! what do I know I am in front of a keyboard talking the walk:confused:

Best regards

Pat

[neb]

I do not agree that an individual cannot learn a philosophy or set of concepts by reading up on it. Applying the concept is not necessary to understand it in many ways.

I do not need to follow Plato's way of life to understand his philosophy, nor do I need to be a a 'saint' like Thomas Aquinas to 'get' his ideas.

And I do not need to hop around imitating Bruce Lee's footwork to understand his message with JKD.

People think of original JKD and JKD concepts. I disagree with this terminology completely.

Whenever Bruce Lee has talked or written of JKD - he consistently speaks of it as a philosophy and way of thinking, and is not held down by having to do this or that - merely Bruce Lee's philosophy on self discovery. So why do people think JKD has system to follow and set methods? well, because they mix it up with Bruce Lee's application of JKD, which is his 'way of the intercepting fist.'

Very confusing isn't it? Unfortunately Bruce Lee never clearly seperated JKD philosophy from his actual method of fighting. People think of the 2 as one and the same. Merely because the same name applies to both.

Bottom line: JKD (do not be fussed by the name, it's only a mere label) is a philosophy designed for individual martial applications and self growth. Bruce Lee's martial art (again known as JKD by some people) is merely his representation of applying his philosophy. Therefore, why does a completely different person need to learn 'the way of the intercepting fist' to learn and apply 'the philosophy's' principles for themselves.

On the other hand, it may be of help, no doubt. But, be warned you tread across a fine line at this point, putting yourself on the very edge where you mistake the philosophy for a set method or way.

JKD means way of the intercepting fist. Clearly sounds more like a fighting system focused on specific principles doesn't it? So why do I insist on referring to it as something wihtout way and does not need Bruce Lee's applications put to use to be understood and expressed physically? Well, simply because Bruce Lee, in his words, called it JKD, and so am I. But the truth? That was a horrible mistake that Bruce Lee was unable to correct due to his untimely death. And I have no right to go and change his definition of what JKD is about, as many people have done.

[tel]

ooooooh, he's got you there tel!.
i don't think so. what are you on?.
yeah you can know what the principles are in jkd but you can not understand it truly until you have applied it.

Obviously tel, im my honest opinion, you've just been convinced by your teachers that you need their classes to learn and appreciate JKD
rubbish neb. you can't get jkd out of a book, you need to put it into practise.
you may know about the concepts from a book, thats all. you don't know it
jkd instructors are there to guide you like any other art.
you understand the philosophy of jkd then you must put the blood, sweat and tears in, not sitting down readinga book with a cup of tea in your hands.
i do loads of isolated training buit still need to go and train with a quilfied teacher, no wonder some jkd is in a bad state if people are just reading books.
by the way bjj and neb. to understand jkd you have to understand jun fan.
sorry byt they are one.

In otherwords 'Books do not make you a better martial artist, training with expearianced people does'.

That is what Tel is trying to say I think any way.
yeah pat, thats what i meant.
just can't understand the principles of jkd with out the hard work and doing it

[archrival_keysi]

i agree with u all the way tel, from when i first started looking into JKD i read most of the available books and i even got myself a wooden dumby i trained for about a year without going to an instructor (big mistake i know but one i have learnt from) I went to my current instructor full of it i will admit i was cocky, sayin that within 5 mins i had been put in my place. He got me to spare with his newest student, only been trainin 2 weeks and with his basic skill i lost (not badly but enough to make me think what i new was awful), the way i was beaten i had explained to me its ok knowing all the techniques out of a book but when u come to apply them your opponent i tryin to do the same to u.

Then there are the issues of sensitivety you have to feel hoe your opponent moves hoe u feel him when there is a phisical barrier there how to manipulate there movement etc. can not get this from a wooden dumby or out of books, all the wooden dumby is for is refining, speed, coordination, conditioning always good to do infront of an insructor as well so they can help direct u accordingly.

I really do feel u have to put the blood sweat and tears (as u put earlier)

Hope this does not offend anybody this is my experience and thoughts only

Regards to everybody

[neb]

I feel nobody actually understood the important point I made in my last post. Oh well. Can't be fagged to repeat myself so, whatever's clever.

[tel]

I feel nobody actually understood the important point I made in my last post. Oh well. Can't be fagged to repeat myself so, whatever's clever.
i do see what you mean when you talk about Plato, but yeah you may know the idea's of jkd, but to understand them you need to go to a jkd gym

[Simplicity]

Its kool to see people understanding the one needs to feel "IT" to improve.....As always Pat's "Insightful" as well as Tel......Ya know the one thing that touched me more than anything that Bruce Lee has said is "Open Up Your Mind".........To me, as a student of the martial arts for many, many moons......I would have to say that just about sums it up!.....I have been into it since I was 5 yrs old and after all these years......When I started "IT", it was 90% phsyical and 10% mental........After all these later I "FEEL" its 90% metal and 10% phsyical........."Open Up You Mind" :D


Back To the original ? or thread........I feel that some things are better off not analyzed to death, what ever that may be.....Its just a name, everyone's mind will open up to "What Is" differently at different times......Not that what one percieves as "What Is", is the truth.....But only their truth as the percieve it at the present time.......So It can't be defined, its "Alive and Always Changing, As We Are, Until It Over"... :)


To All Brothers and Sisters of Art
John :)

[neb]

i do see what you mean when you talk about Plato, but yeah you may know the idea's of jkd, but to understand them you need to go to a jkd gym

BEEP! - WRONG!

Yes you need to apply the principles, yes you need to train hard, yes you need to consider the philosophy on both a mental and physical level. But you DO NOT need to go to a gym where people are teaching Bruce Lee's personalised way of fighting, aka Jeet Kune Do, 'way fo the....'.

Bruce Lee's concepts were focused on finding your own way via certain principles, as his may not suit you. He was never concerned with whether or not people learned his modified wing chun punch, or applied his boxing footwork, so long as they acheive their own methods by a similar process to the way he did, trial and error.

So, I have no objections to anybody trying out Bruce Lee's way of fighting. Why the hell not? It's a great self-defence method. Just that Bruce Lee never stressed it as a necessity, far from it.

Again - it's the name that confuses everything isn't it?

[tel]

BEEP! - WRONG!

Yes you need to apply the principles, yes you need to train hard, yes you need to consider the philosophy on both a mental and physical level. But you DO NOT need to go to a gym where people are teaching Bruce Lee's personalised way of fighting, aka Jeet Kune Do, 'way fo the....'.

Bruce Lee's concepts were focused on finding your own way via certain principles, as his may not suit you. He was never concerned with whether or not people learned his modified wing chun punch, or applied his boxing footwork, so long as they acheive their own methods by a similar process to the way he did, trial and error.

So, I have no objections to anybody trying out Bruce Lee's way of fighting. Why the hell not? It's a great self-defence method. Just that Bruce Lee never stressed it as a necessity, far from it.

Again - it's the name that confuses everything isn't it?

ok neb. we are not talking about bruce lee's personal jkd, i am talking about the principles of jkd itself whe i talk about learning it in the gym.
you may have read and know all the priciples of jkd, but to understand them and how they work then you must do the hard work. reading a book will only give you the knowledge of the principles not the understanding of them

[neb]

And I have not argued with anything you just said in that paragraph.

Glad we're on the same page! :D

Persistence always wins in the end my JKD brotha!

[tel]

And I have not argued with anything you just said in that paragraph.

Glad we're on the same page! :D

Persistence always wins in the end my JKD brotha!
lol. well thats the good thing about jkd,

[neb]

That you get so peeved off at all the different views you just nod your head in the end...?

Just kidding :D

And you know what the funny thing is? Somewhere down the line, sooner or later, somebody will start another one of these threads and the same argument will ensue.

Discussing JKD is like AA Batteries...

Just keeps going and going and going and going.........

[Atharel]

"jkd instructors are there to guide you like any other art."

But JKD is not any other art. It isn't an art. It is a philosophy of developing your own, personal art that is the most effective way of fighting for your own body and mind. Jun fan is an art. It's a good one, with a lot of principles that most people would do well to learn. But it is not all-encompassing. It is not perfect, was probably not perfect for Bruce Lee and is almost surely not perfect for anyone else. Therefore, jun fan is not necessarily part of the JKD philosophy.

"you may know the idea's of jkd, but to understand them you need to go to a jkd gym"

To understand them, you need to do them, yes. But not necessarily in a jun fan jeet kune do gym. I'd even argue that to fully understand them you'd have to venture outside of the JFJKD gym and experience new environments. "Jeet Kune Do is training and discipline towards the ultimate reality in combat." (the man himself) How can you know that your art is complete if you only test it in the same locale?

Jun fan gung fu is a very efficient method of fighting that has very broad applications and takes a lot of great ideas into one shiny package. But you could follow the philosophy of Lee rather than his own application of what is an intensely personal approach. "I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns, or molds." (the man himself.)

"Finally, a Jeet Kune Do man who says Jeet Kune Do is exclusively Jeet Kune Do is simply not with it. He is still hung up on his self-closing resistance, in this case anchored down to reactionary pattern, and naturally is still bound by another modified pattern and can move within its limits. He has not digested the simple fact that truth exists outside all molds; pattern and awareness is never exclusive.
Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back."

Again, Lee himself.

Respectfully.

[neb]

Totally agree with you 99%.

Only disagree with you on one thing, and that is JKD as an art.

Jeet Kune Do, well the philosophy of it anyway, and the way it is practically expressed and applied is an art form in itself. There is an art to the philosophy as far as actual application is concerned, which is what seperates JKD from just 'freestyle' martial arts.

That art form, in essence, involves freedom from styelised pattern and systematic routine.

[Atharel]

I think that may be more of a semantics issue ;) I do agree that the philosophy of JKD needs to be the guiding factor behind training and fighting, and that this philosophy can be described as "art".

I think jun fan gung fu is great. I have a similar build (if maybe not a similar physique! haha) to Lee. I find a lot of utility in jf. But I don't limit myself to it. I don't think the way he did, I don't move the way he did. I need to find what works for me here and now. If that means having a heavy focus on grappling, if that means utilizing aikido principles, I don't think that means that I'm suddenly no longer following Jeet Kune Do. I'm expressing it more than limiting myself would.

Peace.

[tel]

Atharel. i would go along with your last post.
the thing with jun fan its the base art then you apply the prinicples of jkd.
so you might only use a certian percantage of it.
you learn and understand the concepts of jkd from a jkd instructor. then you go out and do other arts with other people and keep growing.

I think jun fan gung fu is great. I have a similar build (if maybe not a similar physique! haha) to Lee. I find a lot of utility in jf. But I don't limit myself to it. I don't think the way he did, I don't move the way he did. I need to find what works for me here and now. If that means having a heavy focus on grappling, if that means utilizing aikido principles, I don't think that means that I'm suddenly no longer following Jeet Kune Do. I'm expressing it more than limiting myself would.
atharel well said and this is what i believe what jkd is about.
i never said jkd is only jun fan, i said that you understand the principles of jkd from a proper jkd instructor then you go out anf follow the principles.
as i said good post

[neb]

Here we go again,

I still believe one does not require training in Jun fan gung fu to understand and apply the principles of JKD.

It may help you understand how Bruce Lee grew and formulated his ideas to do so, but Bruce Lee had always stressed it as an uneccessary when it comes to applying the philosophy.

Having said that, I would still learn his fighting method anyway, I mean, Lee was damn good no doubt, and any methods he deemed effective are worthy of my attention :D

[neb]

I think that may be more of a semantics issue ;)

Don't you know JKD is all about the pragmatic ;)

[BJJ]

You can read philosophy in a book, you can only understand it by doing one thing....
Hard work and training and the guidance of a good intructor who can show you were you are making mistakes.

In otherwords 'Books do not make you a better martial artist, training with expearianced people does'.

That is what Tel is trying to say I think any way.

I read many MA books and watch many MA videos, does that make me good or help me understand what it is all about, no, It gives me an insight, but like anything there is no substitute for the real thing.

If you just talk the talk, without walking the walk you will never really undertsand what it is all about.

But hey! what do I know I am in front of a keyboard talking the walk:confused:

Best regards

Pat


I cant argue with that :p

[tel]

Here we go again,

I still believe one does not require training in Jun fan gung fu to understand and apply the principles of JKD.

It may help you understand how Bruce Lee grew and formulated his ideas to do so, but Bruce Lee had always stressed it as an uneccessary when it comes to applying the philosophy.

Having said that, I would still learn his fighting method anyway, I mean, Lee was damn good no doubt, and any methods he deemed effective are worthy of my attention :D
ok neb, fine lets say you learn and apply the principles, and use them in your art,and find your own igorance. you can't call it jkd. you have to learn the physical art of jun fan. otherwise anyone can call what they do jkd

[neb]

you can't call it jkd. you have to learn the physical art of jun fan. otherwise anyone can call what they do jkd

1 - I don't want to call it JKD or anything for that matter, that's the point, as neither did Bruce Lee.

2 - It shouldn't matter whether it can be called this or that regardless. Labels are not important, and only serve to solidify the relative.

3 - You say you have to learn the art junfan, well Bruce Lee didn't say that. And was quite clear on his thoughts that those who regard JKD as exclusively JKD as "simply not with it".

[tel]

1 - I don't want to call it JKD or anything for that matter, that's the point, as neither did Bruce Lee.

2 - It shouldn't matter whether it can be called this or that regardless. Labels are not important, and only serve to solidify the relative.

3 - You say you have to learn the art junfan, well Bruce Lee didn't say that. And was quite clear on his thoughts that those who regard JKD as exclusively JKD as "simply not with it".

1) ok if you don't want to call it jkd, then thats fine.

2) i agree with this one, but it is important that you train with a quilfied instructor because you need to know you are being shown the principles of jkd correctly.

3) ok well first of all bruce taught the jun fan method to give his students the tools to be able to use the jkd. so to understand jkd and what it's about you need to understand jun fan. see jun fan is the princples being applied. so you start with jun fan,you understand how the principles fit with the technqiues them once you understood the jun fan then you can apply the jkd on that for yourself then go look at other arts to improve area's.
dan inosanto says jun fan is the base system of jkd.

[neb]

If that is so, why did Bruce Lee decide to close down his schools I wonder? Why did he cease teaching on a mass scale?

Because JKD cannot be taught effectively on such a scale, and requires one-to-one basis where Lee adapted methods depending on the student. As such, these methods taught were not Lee's but the students personal needs.

You do not need junfan. You may think you do but you really do not. This is critical in Bruce Lee's philosophy.

Regardless, call it JKD if you want, I won't argue because I honestly do not think otherwise. I just refuse to let my interpretation of Bruce Lee's philosophy be further limited.

[SCP_Kensei]

My definition.

Jeet Kune Do is a set of combat defence principles written by the late Bruce Lee to form a cohesive system of self defense, based upon Bruce's research into many martial arts styles.
Jeet Kune Do is an outgrowth of Jun Fan Gung Fu, a Martial art created by bruce Lee and developed from Wing Chun and many other arts.
The Ideas presented in Jeet Kune Do are not original or unusual but Jeet Kune Do was one of the few attempts to bring together several wildly different combat perspectives under one system.
Jeet Kune Do is not a Martial art as such, and was simply the vehicle used by bruce Lee to teach his style of fighting to others.

Nobody teaches JKD any more, they teach their own systems using the philosophy of Jeet Kune Do, using the name only to try and bring in more students.

[tel]

If that is so, why did Bruce Lee decide to close down his schools I wonder? Why did he cease teaching on a mass scale?
well mainly closed down the schools cos he didn't want his way to be taken as gospel truth. so even today people still think it is.strange but true.

Because JKD cannot be taught effectively on such a scale, and requires one-to-one basis where Lee adapted methods depending on the student. As such, these methods taught were not Lee's but the students personal needs.
yes i agree that he did abapted the methods with each different students.
when he taught them on a private basis, but in the classes he taught his method of kung fu.

SCP_Kensei My definition.

Jeet Kune Do is a set of combat defence principles written by the late Bruce Lee to form a cohesive system of self defense, based upon Bruce's research into many martial arts styles.
Jeet Kune Do is an outgrowth of Jun Fan Gung Fu, a Martial art created by bruce Lee and developed from Wing Chun and many other arts.
yes.true, and what im trying to say.
he come to the conclusion that jun fan would not fit everyone so developed the prinicple of jkd.

[tel]

Regardless, call it JKD if you want, I won't argue because I honestly do not think otherwise. I just refuse to let my interpretation of Bruce Lee's philosophy be further limited.

not sure how doing jun fan will limited your progress.but if you feel that your on the right path for you thats good.

there has to be some quailty control if people are gonna use the name jkd and that mean's learning jun fan from a qualified jkd instructor otherwise is just cross training and no students get ripped of. thinking they are getting jkd from a qualified teacher
the last bit was a general comment and not directed at anyone

[neb]

the last bit was a general comment and not directed at anyone

HA! The hell it was!

I do not feel learning Junfan is limiting, what fool would? Merely I see Bruce Lee's ideas filled with delicately specific concepts, but at the same time coming from an extremely broad perspective.

Therefore, all I am saying, Is that I do not agree with the idea of saying 'JKD is freedom from routine and inefficient unadaptable style - But you must do this style though.'

Kind of oxymoronic wouldn't you say?

Ah, doesn't matter, whatever's good, oxymoronic isn't even a word, to hell with it. Not worth arguing over. I sprained my foot today and it aches like hell. Irrelevant but painful. Wait what am I talking about?

(more to come, maybe)

[SCP_Kensei]

I think it's fair to say that learning Jun Fan is an essential part of understanding Jeet Kune Do. By learning Jun Fan we can understand the physical, mental on philosophical process Bruce went through when developing JF/JKD from Wing chun and the other arts he studied. We can see where the Greco Roman, Boxing, FMA and Fencing influences take static TMA Wing Chun techniques and make them more practical.

Using this as a base we can then take the best of this and combine it with the other arts we learn (if any) and create our own JKD, which from what I udnerstand was the whole point of JKD in the first place for it to be unique to the individual.

But I dont think you can truly conceptualise that unless you understand fully BY PRACTISING the martial structure that bruce first created, then using that understanding you can develop in the way Bruce intended.

Look you'll never settle this without Getting a shovel, digging the guy up and asking him so why bother fighting.

Jun Fan is part of JKD is part of Jun Fan is part of effective self defense. It doesnt really matter.

[tel]

well said SCP_Kensei. totally agree. thats a good post to answer this thread.

Therefore, all I am saying, Is that I do not agree with the idea of saying 'JKD is freedom from routine and inefficient unadaptable style - But you must do this style though.'
neb, all im saying is to have a martial art for yourself you need a basis of which to grow from and in jkd jun fan is that base art.

HA! The hell it was!
it was a general comment about keeping the standard of jkd high.
it was NOT a shot a you

[neb]

i was kidding.

gawd.

[tel]

i was kidding.

gawd.
fair play :)
maybe we can exchange training idea's.at map meet. no politics

[SCP_Kensei]

Or fisticuffs.

[tel]

Or fisticuffs.
lol. one way if testing idea's :)

[neb]

i tore my ligament today - you don't wanna know how i train :D

If i can make it to the south-east MAP meet i'm there!

don't see a reason why i cannot except for cost and/or college/work.

actually there's alotta reason.

but, nevertheless, my JKD brothas need me!

Either that or you're all planning to jump me.

[neb]

all im saying is to have a martial art for yourself you need a basis of which to grow from and in jkd jun fan is that base art.

I agree, even JKD needs a basis, the whole argument of "successful combination of both naturalness and unnaturallness".

But, I still disagree, that with JKD there is a neccessary basis which many regard to be Jun Fan Gung fu.

Now I have no probs with Bruce Lee's fighting methods, Jun Fan is my method of choice in nearly all combat situations. But to be hung up on it as a "neccesity" to Bruce Lee's philosophy of "no way as way, no limitation as limitation" is to not have a comprehensive grasp on what Bruce Lee and the JKD message was trying to express. In my humble views anyway.

[SCP_Kensei]

Only one way to settle this *Runs off to find a Shovel*.....

[James Kovacich]

1
If that is so, why did Bruce Lee decide to close down his schools I wonder? Why did he cease teaching on a mass scale?
Because JKD cannot be taught effectively on such a scale, and requires one-to-one basis where Lee adapted methods depending on the student.

2
I just refuse to let my interpretation of Bruce Lee's philosophy be further limited.


1
I agree except Bruce didn't teach on a mass scale. Maybe he wasn't satisfied with his assistant instructors. Bruce may have shut his schools down but Jimmy Lee taught my Sigung until Jimmy died in 1972. I guess Bruce was satisfied was Jimmy's teaching.


2
I think that may be your primary argument. That JKD is just a philosiphy. You can get that solely from books but the real deal comes from a good instructor with a connection to Bruce Lee.
The phylisophical side of JKD is just that. "A" side, a piece, NOT the "whole."

Anybody can beleive whatever they want about JKD but while they are "philosiphying" I'll be "doing." :D

[neb]

Then, by your logic, you can only learn real Aikido from it's founder, you can only learn proper Karate from it's founder, or at least someone who has a connection with them.

I can assure you that connection is not for every instructor out there. Even the good ones with respectable reputation.

It's a silly concept to abide by.

Now let's consider the conext, this is an internet forum; A place for us to hypothesise, discuss, and outline and evaluate our beliefs.

The physical side happens elsewhere. And is determined by our beliefs which are considered beforehand.

Now, my only argument here, as I do not have a disagreement on any other topic raised thus far, is that Jun Fan Gung Fu is not a neccesity to the path of JKD.

Remember, the very first rule of JKD, "no way as way, no limitation as limitation". All other rules and principles should be considered with regards to this defining concept of JKD.

[James Kovacich]

1
Then, by your logic, you can only learn real Aikido from it's founder, you can only learn proper Karate from it's founder, or at least someone who has a connection with them.

2
Now, my only argument here, as I do not have a disagreement on any other topic raised thus far, is that Jun Fan Gung Fu is not a neccesity to the path of JKD.

Remember, the very first rule of JKD, "no way as way, no limitation as limitation". All other rules and principles should be considered with regards to this defining concept of JKD.


1
No, you can't compare a tradional art that is "defined" with its own standards "set in stone," to an art like JKD.

2

There is no 1st rule or principle. It's all or none. Either you or you are not. And when considering the principles. How does a new practitioner without a knowledgeable JKD instructor know which concepts to practice first. Just start anywhere in the process?

Before you cross the river, you need a boat. Then and only then you can discard the boat. Thats the differance in the concepts camp and the "self taught" concept camp. The "true" concept practitioners have a connection to Bruce and that connection taught them "the real" before they discarded the boat.

[James Kovacich]

If I had a penny for everytime somebody called Jeet Kune Do a style, I'd have £2.19p"

Tell it to these guys. Have fun.
http://pauljbax.forumco.com/

[Pat OMalley]

But at the end of the day, you still CANT learn it from a book, you have to expeariance it to realy apreaciate what it is worth, and to say all JKD practitioners or former practioners for that matter only try to mimic BL's moves etc smacks of ignorance of what JKD is all about. Yes even some so caled JKD practitioners miss the point too. But more so those that just read about it and think they know what it is all about.

Sorry, but there is no better way to learn than from expeariance and without an expearianced instructor to guide you, then you are just a stranger who turned down the oppertunity of a guide walking in an area you don't really know. What happens to the stranger? They get lost because because they thought they had a map, only to realise the map is just a peice of paper. Get "IT" or not?

Best regards

Pat

[tel]

1
No, you can't compare a tradional art that is "defined" with its own standards "set in stone," to an art like JKD.

2

There is no 1st rule or principle. It's all or none. Either you or you are not. And when considering the principles. How does a new practitioner without a knowledgeable JKD instructor know which concepts to practice first. Just start anywhere in the process?

Before you cross the river, you need a boat. Then and only then you can discard the boat. Thats the differance in the concepts camp and the "self taught" concept camp. The "true" concept practitioners have a connection to Bruce and that connection taught them "the real" before they discarded the boat.
welcome back akja, have not seen you o here for a whle.
i totally agree with everything you said there.


1
I agree except Bruce didn't teach on a mass scale. Maybe he wasn't satisfied with his assistant instructors. Bruce may have shut his schools down but Jimmy Lee taught my Sigung until Jimmy died in 1972. I guess Bruce was satisfied was Jimmy's teaching.

not sure about that one, bruce held all three of them in high regard. he left
inosanto with the responsability of jkd

[neb]

Yes I agree, experience 'out there' is the whole point. The application is when it really matters, here we are just regarding the philosophy. As this is an internet forum and until the day we can all put on virtual helmets and fight each other it's gnna be all talk and no walk.

My argument is not that 'one only needs a book' - but that 'one does not need a specific school or instructor, so long as they are learned properly on JKD's applications with proper experience, but whether the come from Inosanto, this guy, or that person, should not matter.'

[neb]

1
No, you can't compare a tradional art that is "defined" with its own standards "set in stone," to an art like JKD.

2

There is no 1st rule or principle. It's all or none. Either you or you are not. And when considering the principles. How does a new practitioner without a knowledgeable JKD instructor know which concepts to practice first. Just start anywhere in the process?

Before you cross the river, you need a boat. Then and only then you can discard the boat. Thats the differance in the concepts camp and the "self taught" concept camp. The "true" concept practitioners have a connection to Bruce and that connection taught them "the real" before they discarded the boat.

And just, then, what is the proper route into JKD. Obviously I'm doing it all wrong and haven't even crossed the "river" - whatever the hell that means - in your eyes.

You seem to be throwing alot of fancy philosophy this way without any actual identification of how it's useable! I'm trying to deal with the practical here, as is everyone else, except for you.

Your arguments don't sway my prior ones at all really. It all seems quite incoherent to what the discussion at hand was.

"There is no first rule or principle, all or none!"

what does the mean for crying out loud? It sounds like you're destroying Bruce Lee's wish for freedom and relativity in your combat and training. And I don't see how "no way as way...." argument cannot be considered as a first principle seeing as it sums up JKD in its totality - according to Inosanto and Bruce Lee anyway.

I think you're not realising that you yourself are "defining" JKD and "setting it in stone" making it no different from any other freestyle martial arts.

I don't even know what we're arguing about. Are you saying you disagree with the ideals of JKDas set out by Bruce Lee? I do not think that was your intention, merely you seem to be misunderstanding my argument, which is, one last time, that even though JKD requires physical practise and application to be better understood and relied upon in the real world, it still should not, according to my understanding of Bruce Lee's words and writings, be bound by style neccesities. In this case Jun Fan gung fu.

All type of combat, freestyle, traditional, classical or non-classical need a basis, JKD is basically about broadening that basis and not being limited by any way in its sole isness. Use no way as way, so why do some people insist this does not apply to the foundation of JKD? i.e. The route must always be in modified Wing chun - this was not Bruce Lee's beliefs - JKD hopes to remove such limitations on the individual.

[Simplicity]

Miyamoto Musashi was one of the "Greatest Swordsman's Japan Has Ever Know"......wrote that he was self-taught, and there are no records that counter that......because in that time and day someone would have wanted to claim him as a student......But they wouldn't lie about it because he would have killed them........Just something to ponder about everyone. :D


Peace-Out!
JFM

[neb]

(ponders......)

.... :eek: (realisation!)

[James Kovacich]

I teach myself quite a bit BUT my martial art would be quite differant if I "only" taught myself and never met my Sifu Felix Macias Jr.
http://www.taoofgungfu.com/
Like my Sifu, I don't use the "label" Jeet Kune Do but my training and teaching reflects JKD, my JKD.


Neb, That was Bruce AND his students philosiphy, not mine. I just beleive it. I just don't beleive that a Tae Kwon Do practioner can claim to be a JKD practioner just because "adapted" a few of Bruces "words." And if you really read what you think you read, you would know Bruces writings contradict his previous writings.

So it would be similar to "starting" your training in the advanced class without ever learning the basics. I don't beleive that MMA is JKD but what your posting would lead me to beleive that is what you think. It dosen't matter. We won't ever cross paths unless you come to California where it all began and continues.

[neb]

I don't see how anything I've posted could lead you to believe that I interpret JKD as just a MMA.

You are merely mishearing me. So stop putting words in my mouth.

[James Kovacich]

Your definition of JKD could also serve as a definition of MMA and that alone separates JKD from those "who were taught" from the "so-called JKD" that is "made up" by the individual. :D

P.S. Not arguing, just dissagreeing from a perspective "passed down to me" but also interpeted by me.

[neb]

My definition of JKD is the same as Bruce's:

using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.

[James Kovacich]

My definition of JKD is the same as Bruce's:

using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation.
Thats a quote and Bruce made made quotes. Its not a definition. How can you call it Bruces definition when Bruce said it could not be defined.

You're qoute is a "partial" description. If you really understand his quotes like "using no way as way, having no limitation as limitation" and "use what is useful, reject what is useless and add specifically what is your own" then you would know that is NOT "anything goes." It does not mean Jun Fan is not a prt of the process. It does not mean anything I choose is JKD. Thats the problem with the misinterpeted books that are out.

Also, Bruce did NOT write any of those books. Those books were written by interpetation of Bruces notes. The Tao I think says by Bruce lee but was written after his death. Bruces other books that he actuall wrote with the help of James Lee was pre-JKD.

[neb]

I think you are seriously misinformed on JKD, Bruce Lee's teachings and on general understanding of his philosophy.

Find a good school, stick with it, think before you speak, and Good luck.

[Atharel]

Where is neb saying "anything goes"?

I'm seeing "if jun fan doesn't work for you in light and principle of Jeet Kune Do, you're still doing Jeet Kune Do".

I'm seeing not "whatever you want", but "use what works." Big distinction.

You can't have it both ways. "It's TRUE JKD, [so-called] the way of no way, because my sifu is teaching techniques that Bruce Lee found to work for his specific body type and mentality!" Either follow what the man said, or respect the individual path. There is no room in the JKD philosophy for the calcified teachings of some Sifu/Guro who says you need his specific list of techniques to be TRUE JKD. Any specific list of techniques is complete and utter anathema to the philosophy. "Use what works", "Attack in defense", and the other principles should guide the selection and construction of your own personal style - but nothing else.

Is someone who studies jun fan kickboxing to learn JKD, then moves on and completely ceases using any jun fan techniques in favor of muay thai and shooto, a JKD'er in your opinion? Is it just that they have to have been rubber-stamped by someone who learned from someone who learned from someone who learned from someone who learned from someone whose grandfather trained under Bruce Lee's second student's fourth student to be THE TRUE JKD?

Is someone who studies just jun fan a JKD practitioner? Is that all you need?

Jun fan gung fu can easily be a part of JKD - it was built from a JKD perspective. But that same perspective insists that it it not necessary.

Respectfully.

[James Kovacich]

I never listed any techniques, just the process as I was taught. Jun Fan and JKD are two halves of the whole. Neither are complete without the other.

[James Kovacich]

I think you are seriously misinformed on JKD, Bruce Lee's teachings and on general understanding of his philosophy.

Find a good school, stick with it, think before you speak, and Good luck.
I posted a link to my instructor.

Whose your instructor? Oh yea, that would be yourself!

[James Kovacich]

welcome back akja, have not seen you o here for a whle.
i totally agree with everything you said there.




not sure about that one, bruce held all three of them in high regard. he left
inosanto with the responsability of jkd
Actually my personal martial is more in line with soneones teaching like Roy Harris that what you think from my posts but I don't use the "label" which I reject as useless.

Jimmy Lee never stopped teaching. Thats all it was. From what I know, L.A. stopped. Jimmy was a well known S.F. Bay Area Gung Fu instructor before Bruce moved into his house and after learning from Bruce he was even better. Bruce may have stopped the JKD classes but Bruce did not tell Jimmy to stop teaching. That I know. My Sigung was there for nearly 10 years, one of Jimmy's longest students.

I read your posts from time to time and I think we think more alike than I noticed before. Sometimes we have to sit back and just "lurk" a bit and not get caught up in the simple ****.

[Atharel]

Jun fan is a list of techniques.

Why can't you learn JKD through BJJ and Kali taught from the JKD perspective? Or any other reasonably complete art?

[James Kovacich]

Where is neb saying "anything goes"?

I'm seeing "if jun fan doesn't work for you in light and principle of Jeet Kune Do, you're still doing Jeet Kune Do".

I'm seeing not "whatever you want", but "use what works." Big distinction.

You can't have it both ways. "It's TRUE JKD, [so-called] the way of no way, because my sifu is teaching techniques that Bruce Lee found to work for his specific body type and mentality!" Either follow what the man said, or respect the individual path. There is no room in the JKD philosophy for the calcified teachings of some Sifu/Guro who says you need his specific list of techniques to be TRUE JKD. Any specific list of techniques is complete and utter anathema to the philosophy. "Use what works", "Attack in defense", and the other principles should guide the selection and construction of your own personal style - but nothing else.

Is someone who studies jun fan kickboxing to learn JKD, then moves on and completely ceases using any jun fan techniques in favor of muay thai and shooto, a JKD'er in your opinion? Is it just that they have to have been rubber-stamped by someone who learned from someone who learned from someone who learned from someone who learned from someone whose grandfather trained under Bruce Lee's second student's fourth student to be THE TRUE JKD?

Is someone who studies just jun fan a JKD practitioner? Is that all you need?

Jun fan gung fu can easily be a part of JKD - it was built from a JKD perspective. But that same perspective insists that it it not necessary.

Respectfully.

Unless I was completely off base here. Neb is self taught and has no JKD training but beleives he does JKD. Whatever.

Thats why I don't teach JKD. Myself, Sifu and Sigung have been requested to do seminars quite a bit here in California. But the JKD is as bad as Kenpo. They're both in a race for being the least repected martial art. I've pretty much washed my hands of most in the community except these guys.
http://www.jkdbrotherhood.com/catalog.0.html.0.html
http://pauljbax.forumco.com/login.asp?target=default.asp
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/index.php

They have good insight into "what is" and what it has to do to stay alive.

[James Kovacich]

Jun fan is a list of techniques.

Why can't you learn JKD through BJJ and Kali taught from the JKD perspective? Or any other reasonably complete art?

If you beleive that JKD is just a concept, then so be it, for you. But you really are stating that your Kali and BJJ is being taught from a JKD perpective. Would that make it JKD or Kali and BJJ?

[neb]

Where is neb saying "anything goes"?

I'm seeing "if jun fan doesn't work for you in light and principle of Jeet Kune Do, you're still doing Jeet Kune Do".

I'm seeing not "whatever you want", but "use what works." Big distinction.

You can't have it both ways. "It's TRUE JKD, [so-called] the way of no way, because my sifu is teaching techniques that Bruce Lee found to work for his specific body type and mentality!" Either follow what the man said, or respect the individual path. There is no room in the JKD philosophy for the calcified teachings of some Sifu/Guro who says you need his specific list of techniques to be TRUE JKD. Any specific list of techniques is complete and utter anathema to the philosophy. "Use what works", "Attack in defense", and the other principles should guide the selection and construction of your own personal style - but nothing else.

Is someone who studies jun fan kickboxing to learn JKD, then moves on and completely ceases using any jun fan techniques in favor of muay thai and shooto, a JKD'er in your opinion? Is it just that they have to have been rubber-stamped by someone who learned from someone who learned from someone who learned from someone who learned from someone whose grandfather trained under Bruce Lee's second student's fourth student to be THE TRUE JKD?

Is someone who studies just jun fan a JKD practitioner? Is that all you need?

Jun fan gung fu can easily be a part of JKD - it was built from a JKD perspective. But that same perspective insists that it it not necessary.

Respectfully.

(neb hugs Athaerl with watery eyes :D )

Dear akja, you sound like you've been studying JKD for a week at the most so drop your incoherent, inconsistent, constantly changing arguments because they're not interesting, just annoying. :bang:

[James Kovacich]

(neb hugs Athaerl with watery eyes :D )

Dear akja, you sound like you've been studying JKD for a week at the most so drop your incoherent, inconsistent, constantly changing arguments because they're not interesting, just annoying. :bang:
You still have yet to name your instructor??

Mine exist unlike yours only in your head.
http://www.scientificstreetfighting.com/maciasgungfu.html
http://www.taoofgungfu.com/

Nothing changing here. I've stated my views on JKD and I've also stated why I don't use the "label" JKD. My art is mine and in it's present form is better, in my opinion.

Just name your instructor and I'll stop answering your posts.

[James Kovacich]

(neb hugs Athaerl with watery eyes :D )

Dear akja, you sound like you've been studying JKD for a week at the most so drop your incoherent, inconsistent, constantly changing arguments because they're not interesting, just annoying. :bang:

YOU REALLY TAKE THE CAKE!! You list Jun Fan Gung Fu as your style. LOL And your a 17 yearold kid. LOL :D I have students with more experince than you've been alive. :D

[neb]

Good lord akja!

Have all my words and efforts been in vein thus far?

The many people who have taught me, currently and in the past, are nothing to do with this. They do not sit me down and say "you must believe this and represent me!" - I'm guessing it's a different relationship with those who teach you though.

At least I have the respect to refer my methods back to JKD which is, however you look at it, where my basics come from. Credit where credit is due.

You seem to be taking JKD as your own, relabelling it, shuffling it about and slapping it on the market. Exactly what Bruce Lee fought to avoid!

Maybe if you showed some martial or even common courtesy instead of demanding such information, I would feel obliged enough to tell you, but now I'm afraid such information might overload your little mind so I will do you a favour by ignoring your mindless questions about my lineage.

PS - There's a little button labelled 'edit'. Consider its many uses in future won't you?

[neb]

YOU REALLY TAKE THE CAKE!! You list Jun Fan Gung Fu as your style. LOL And your a 17 yearold kid. LOL :D I have students with more experince than you've been alive. :D

You teach? - did you not say, not too long ago, that most of what you learn is from books alone? oh dear, McDojo anyone?

Yes I am 17, well done, and I know more on JKD than you do! Oh my dear akja, tut tut.

And what's wrong with listing Jun fan gung fu in my profile? It's the style I am primarily studying and practising inside and outside of frequent classes. So.... I don't get the humour. Are you saying I'm too young to be learning JKD? I think that's more of a question of maturity my friend, an area you are rapidly falling short off. If I listed JKD instead it would kind of contradict everything wouldn't it....? let me answer that for you. yes.

[James Kovacich]

Good lord akja!

Have all my words and efforts been in vein thus far?

The many people who have taught me, currently and in the past, are nothing to do with this. They do not sit me down and say "you must believe this and represent me!" - I'm guessing it's a different relationship with those who teach you though.

At least I have the respect to refer my methods back to JKD which is, however you look at it, where my basics come from. Credit where credit is due.

You seem to be taking JKD as your own, relabelling it, shuffling it about and slapping it on the market. Exactly what Bruce Lee fought to avoid!

Maybe if you showed some martial or even common courtesy instead of demanding such information, I would feel obliged enough to tell you, but now I'm afraid such information might overload your little mind so I will do you a favour by ignoring your mindless questions about my lineage.

PS - There's a little button labelled 'edit'. Consider its many uses in future won't you?
JR, you have yet to name any instructor related to JKD at all.

I'm not relabeling anything. http://www.jkdbrotherhood.com/catalog.0.html.0.html
My profile is above. I teach alot of what I've learned since 1973 but more heavily since the early '90's to now Trad. JJ/BJJ /Jun Fan and Eskrima.
That is not Bruces teachings. To brand new students I start them in Kempo. Why would you think my style is repackaged JKD? I have a great JUn Fan Instructor who knows exactly what I'm doing with my art. He approves because all of the systems listed. I train and teach to beat them. Force my fight on them. What I've done you could not have come close to in your short life.

I'm sorry if I was hard on you. I didn't realize your age.

[neb]

And I'm sorry if my words were too big for you, didn't realise you studied t3h d33dLy str33t f1ghting!!!!1

If you don't study or know about JKD (as you say, you are doing your own thing and have studied some Jun fan gung fu recently) then what the hell are you arguing over here for?

In conclusion, I doubt the majority here no what you are on about, with the exception of yourself, of course, and that little voice in your head.

Well.... That's certainly sucked the maturity, and with it, the dignity out of the original discussion. Thanks for that.

Well I have time to kill and a post to use; Hey, here's an extract from your profle, well you used my age against me so I figured I am entitled to returning the favour:

"I have been in the martial arts since off and on 1973 and I am 5th Dan and recognized by my instructors as head of my own system"

So, the facts: been in the martial arts on and off for over 30 years, have a dodgy grasp of English grammer, and are a 5th Dan of your own style - well hell, I'm a 10th Dan in neb-fon-du which is my own style so I guess I win.

And I am deeply concerned for students learning from an on-and-off hobbyist when it comes to MA.

Man I hate low blows, apologies are due. But still - I think you might want to actually read your own sig one day pal. Have a dictionary ready won't you? Ooh, there I go again, hope you were wearing a kup :D

[James Kovacich]

And I'm sorry if my words were too big for you, didn't realise you studied t3h d33dLy str33t f1ghting!!!!1

If you don't study or know about JKD (as you say, you are doing your own thing and have studied some Jun fan gung fu recently) then what the hell are you arguing over here for?

In conclusion, I doubt the majority here no what you are on about, with the exception of yourself, of course, and that little voice in your head.

Well.... That's certainly sucked the maturity, and with it, the dignity out of the original discussion. Thanks for that.

Well I have time to kill and a post to use; Hey, here's an extract from your profle, well you used my age against me so I figured I am entitled to returning the favour:

"I have been in the martial arts since off and on 1973 and I am 5th Dan and recognized by my instructors as head of my own system"

So, the facts: been in the martial arts on and off for over 30 years, have a dodgy grasp of English grammer, and are a 5th Dan of your own style - well hell, I'm a 10th Dan in neb-fon-du which is my own style so I guess I win.

And I am deeply concerned for students learning from an on-and-off hobbyist when it comes to MA.

Man I hate low blows, apologies are due. But still - I think you might want to actually read your own sig one day pal. Have a dictionary ready won't you? Ooh, there I go again, hope you were wearing a kup :D

Did you not read that my Sifu/Sigung do not call their system JKD. They trained in the original Oakland JKD school. I was trained in "their method." Click the links I gave you. It's all there. I'm affiliated with many in the JKD community, I just don't teach JKD because of the mess I see and my instructors are helping me build upon what I've worked on for a long time.

JKD is a mess similar to American Kenpo. It's been raped and the public is confused as to what to expect. I refer most JKD inquiries to people I know.Based on your age I know I've been involved in JKD longer than you've trained in all your experience and that is just 1 art to me. Don't be foolish with me. Thats why I don't come to places like this in the first place. Theres to much real **** to do to be playing kids games.

I teach my system because it is me, my evolution. I was promoted accordingly in my systems. My site does not show everything because it's being reworked but my instructors back me and my system and my buisness 100%.http://www.scientific-streetfighting.com/purchasevideos.html
It's wrong to make fun of my system like you did. I've been "out there" a long time and my art is mine. If you read earlier I stated "my views" on JKD. I didn't say I teach it. But follow some the ealier links I've posted. There are people out there who know exactly what I'm about and that it's all real.

[GoldenTiger]

I define it as not being a style but an art. I define it just as bruce lee said in one of his interviews. It is not the technique but it is what works best for that individual. In other words I define jeet kune do as what works best for you.

[James Kovacich]

Heres Bruces contradictions.
http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/brucelee/quotes.htm#On%20JKD

It appears that Bruce "defined" his JKD as a style.
Jeet Kune-Do is the only non-classical style of Chinese Kung Fu in existence today

And the very next quote is about JKD not being a style.

And Neb, the last sentece is for you since you said you never heard it.
Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back.

[tel]

Heres Bruces contradictions.
http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/brucelee/quotes.htm#On%20JKD

It appears that Bruce "defined" his JKD as a style.
Jeet Kune-Do is the only non-classical style of Chinese Kung Fu in existence today

And the very next quote is about JKD not being a style.

And Neb, the last sentece is for you since you said you never heard it.
Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back.
well jkd was a the beginning suppose to be a style. but he came to the conclusion that it did not fit everybody. this was the la version of jun fan, that when he jkd was changed to a prinicple way of fighting

[James Kovacich]

well jkd was a the beginning suppose to be a style. but he came to the conclusion that it did not fit everybody. this was the la version of jun fan, that when he jkd was changed to a prinicple way of fighting
Yes I understand. I'm putting it out there that it is ignorant to "try" and "define" based on quotes that they have know idea when or where they were said or the true meaning of or even if there is just one meaning.

We can figure out a basic chronological order for Bruces quotes BUt it is not proof positive. We just know.

Bruce did say something like only 1 in 10,000 will get "it." If bruce is correct. 9,999 out of 10,000 DON'T GET "IT."

[JKD_forever]

lol...and he is right

[neb]

lol... God have mercy on the point of this.

akja, I am not here to diss you, it seems the other way around from my standpoint.

you have a very firm belief, obviously, that JKD is not going the way you'd want it. And seem to be doing nothing more than trolling for the sake of self-gratification, which doesn't look good for any instructor and their school.

If you cannot handle varying points of view, then you are in the wrong place. This is discussion, please grow up an start contributing like and adult.

[tel]

lol...and he is right
so true. but does depend on view point

[neb]

You agree that only 1 in 10,000 "get" JKD??????? :bang:

Only one person "got" JKD if you wanna be technical about it.

Man this topic lost its credibility quickly. Pity.

:rolleyes:

[neb]

I define it as not being a style but an art. I define it just as bruce lee said in one of his interviews. It is not the technique but it is what works best for that individual. In other words I define jeet kune do as what works best for you.

Yes I have to say I agree, many will argue "But it's not JKD then!" - well it doesn't have to be called JKD. The fact is what you are doing is about JKD.

JKD is a concept of self-development focused on constantly improving the neccessities, minimizing the inefficencies, removing the unessecary, and building on the practical.

Very generally speaking though.

[tel]

You agree that only 1 in 10,000 "get" JKD??????? :bang:

Only one person "got" JKD if you wanna be technical about it.

Man this topic lost its credibility quickly. Pity.

:rolleyes:
no neb he was not the only one who got jkd, dan inosanto? poteet? wong?
they found there jkd, rick young ,bob breen, they found there way,
you can't define jkd. the last 130 odd post's show that.

will take back the 1 in 10,000 comment, cos that would restrict it.
remember when lee made that comment look at the people in that era

[neb]

Ok I agree,

Am still not sure with this whol cannot define JKD business though, because obviously one can.

Inosanto has defined his interpretation, as has Bob Breen, as Have you, myself, we all have one way or another, no matter how bleak or uncertain.

To ask the question, have we defined JKD correctly? is another matter. And, according to Si Gung Lee's philosophy, not one with any satisfactory answer.

Then again, I do not feel we are far off the mark at all, as it were. Perhaps we were allready there but didn't know it, perhaps some of us are there, and others will follow shortly, whereas others may never be there, or get there then miss the oppurtunity.

You know what?.... I think I'm going to stop there before I go into jibberish nonsense.

[tel]

i will go along with what you said neb.
finally the guy who asked the question 140 posts later.
you can't define jkd.

[Atharel]

If you beleive that JKD is just a concept, then so be it, for you.

"just" a concept? Why do you believe that JKD is "just" an extension of jun fan? I think it's more.

But you really are stating that your Kali and BJJ is being taught from a JKD perpective.
I'm judo based, with jun fan kickboxing and muay thai for my striking. Little bit of aikido.

Would that make it JKD or Kali and BJJ?
It would be JKD. It's possible that it would come out as just a hash of Kali and BJJ. But if done properly, just as good a chance of being JKD as jun fan.


tel - Agreed as well.
Sometimes this fossilization of JKD makes me want to just say "mixed martial arts" or "freeform" as what I do, though. :confused:

[James Kovacich]

lol... God have mercy on the point of this.

akja, I am not here to diss you, it seems the other way around from my standpoint.

you have a very firm belief, obviously, that JKD is not going the way you'd want it. And seem to be doing nothing more than trolling for the sake of self-gratification, which doesn't look good for any instructor and their school.

If you cannot handle varying points of view, then you are in the wrong place. This is discussion, please grow up an start contributing like and adult.

Trolling now? As you stated this is discussion with varying points of view. My view dosen't count? It is backed with experience, maybe differant than others but a lot of it.

I may have opened up the attack by stating your age but you are young and your training even if you started young would not be that extensive. My point you choose not to accept. Maybe I went at it wrong but you returned by attacking me and my system. Thats not dissing?

Even tough you are young you do speak as if you are older but I don't call it trolling when you avoided to answer "who" trained you. I don't list all my instructor or even all the arts but I do list the ones that matter. Why don't you admit where you got your training? No big thing!

If you read any of that stuff from that site I found last nite.
http://www.fightingmaster.com/masters/brucelee/quotes.htm#On%20JKD

I've done a lot of that. It's posted all over my site. Thats not copying. It's just my way. You did diss me and my way.

[ap Oweyn]

Bruce Lee's concepts were focused on finding your own way via certain principles, as his may not suit you. He was never concerned with whether or not people learned his modified wing chun punch, or applied his boxing footwork, so long as they acheive their own methods by a similar process to the way he did, trial and error.

Then why did he teach? Why didn't he simply lecture on the thought process?

I've seen plenty of training footage where he makes small, detailed adjustments to what someone is doing. If he wasn't concerned with people learning his method, why would he do that? Why wouldn't he simply explain his philosophy in a strictly didactic way?


Stuart

p.s. [Edited because it was more snarky than helpful.]

[neb]

akja, If there was anything I dissed, with utmost intentionality, was your lack of maturity.

You have your own system, you have your own way, style, personalised path in life. That's all great and all - But I wouldn't go so far as to preach about it to the extent that you are somehow a better martial artist than me or anybody else with different point of perspective.

Age does not matter, rank does not matter, who I trained with does not matter. What does matter is the willingness and compassion a person shows when studying and practising their art with people from all walks of life. And their understanding of it. Which is not determined by Age.

Having said that, I think it's clear by my thoughts that I am more than a novice to the martial arts and Bruce Lee's philosophy.

But no doubt there are others here who have been doing it longer, harder and with more people. Does this automatically confirm that those younger with less time in the field must know less?

Anybody can learn a skill - A man can learn to be a great mathematician if he spends 20 years contstantly researching and practising the subject. But, another can reach or even exceed the former man's skill in the same event with only a few years of experience on his shoulders.

People's memory vary, people's looks vary, as do their colour, ethinic origin, height and intelligence. All on a natural level. And that includes their ability to grasp certain concepts quicker and better.

By no means am I referring to myself. Merely making a point worth remembering. Judge people on neither what's on the inside or outside, but by their actions.

[Matt_Bernius]

Then why did he teach? Why didn't he simply lecture on the thought process?

I've seen plenty of training footage where he makes small, detailed adjustments to what someone is doing. If he wasn't concerned with people learning his method, why would he do that? Why wouldn't he simply explain his philosophy in a strictly didactic way?This one is worth repeating because it seems like it gets to the heart of a large question thats being debated on the Kung Fu forum as we speak:

What the relationship of techniques to principles/concepts etc. in a specific martial art?

And this is the key nut to crack in understanding the different sides of the JKD debate. Not saying that I have the answer. But its the question and facts of the situation that we should be discussing.

Great job cutting to the issue Stuart. Now, what's your personal feeling on it?

- Matt

[neb]

Then why did he teach? Why didn't he simply lecture on the thought process?

I've seen plenty of training footage where he makes small, detailed adjustments to what someone is doing. If he wasn't concerned with people learning his method, why would he do that? Why wouldn't he simply explain his philosophy in a strictly didactic way?


Stuart

Bruce Lee taught people how to defend themselves because he was good at it, and because he wanted to.

Some people wanted to just learn his methods, not everybody was concerned with a life-long path of discovering self needs and attributions in the martial arts.

[ap Oweyn]

Bruce Lee taught people how to defend themselves because he was good at it, and because he wanted to.

Some people wanted to just learn his methods, not everybody was concerned with a life-long path of discovering self needs and attributions in the martial arts.
I'm quite sure that some people wanted to learn his methods. And he was willing to teach them his methods. Not simply his philosophy. That suggests one of two things to me. 1) He was willing to compromise on his philosophy very readily and teach methods anyway (which seems pretty unlikely) or 2) the methods were, in fact, important.


Stuart

[ap Oweyn]

This one is worth repeating because it seems like it gets to the heart of a large question thats being debated on the Kung Fu forum as we speak:

What the relationship of techniques to principles/concepts etc. in a specific martial art?

And this is the key nut to crack in understanding the different sides of the JKD debate. Not saying that I have the answer. But its the question and facts of the situation that we should be discussing.

Great job cutting to the issue Stuart. Now, what's your personal feeling on it?

- Matt

Thanks Matt!

I suppose my take is this: Jun Fan is a necessary part of learning JKD (which is, in large part why I've never really considered myself a JKD guy; I studied from one of Inosanto's students, but never Jun Fan specifically).

You asked the golden question. What is the relationship between the physical practice and the concepts/philosophy? I think we all agree that there is a connection. But what makes martial arts philosophy different from some other philosophies is that it's directly mapped to a physical practice. The concepts aren't just passed down didactically. They are embodied.

It's my feeling that JKD's philosophy (and many other martial arts philosophies for that matter) cannot be passed down simply by word (either reading or hearing lectures from a qualified teacher). The physical experience of doing things a certain way drives home the concept. In other words, understanding follows performance because the learning is experiential.

To my mind, Jun Fan is important because it's the physical framework that allows the concepts of JKD to be communicated in an experiential way, rather than just by word of mouth.


Stuart

[Pat OMalley]

Agree'd and a good post, as I have said previously, you can't learn it from a book, you need a good instructor who can tell you where your going wrong and how to put it right, they are your guide and without one you are just wandering around aimlessly.

So out of curiosoty Neb, where did you learn "your" JKD, who from and for how long. Fair enough question I think don't you?

Best regards

Pat
A person who does not consider himself a JKD person, But!........

[tel]

agree good post matt.
jun fan is an important part of jkd after all its the base of jkd, just don't be bound by it

[neb]

Are my ideas that confusing to you all? are they that different from your interpretations of Bruce Lee's beliefs?

If so, then I supoose it does not matter any longer. I know I have said all that I can say on the subject. And I would rather not continue preaching the same point any longer.

My JKD teacher? Do you all really want to know? Is it that important? Is that what matters? I suppose I owe this topic that much. Though I find it a difficult question.

I suppose it would have to be the person who first introduced me to Jeet Kune Do - to the philosophy and to the physical. The person who has shown me their teachings and corrected my mistakes. The one who guided my journey into this magnificent art. His name is Bruce Lee, who will forever remain a teacher and guide, no matter how far I go, or how good I may become, his guidance will never go unappreciated, nor forgotten.

[ap Oweyn]

Are my ideas that confusing to you all? are they that different from your interpretations of Bruce Lee's beliefs?

They don't have to be confusing for us to disagree Neb. They just have to be different. I get what you're saying. I simply disagree.

Fair enough?

Stuart

[tel]

is it a bit like no retreat and no surrender
just joking i couldn't resist :D

[James Kovacich]

It seems that there are "others" who agree with Jun Fan being and integral part of the "JKD process." Thats my view and apparrently others too. If one "discards the boat AFTER crossing the river." Then so be it but it still was the boat or at least an important part of the boat.

Neb, you tried to say I have no connection to JKD. Where did that come from. Because I choose to teach without the "label?" I don't understand?

My Sigung was a part of the evolution of Jeet Kune Do in Oakland. He has trained me personally at times and I have a personal relationship with him but his son is my Sifu and always will be as well we are close friends. That is a "direct" connection to JKD.

How and what I teach is my buisness. Now why won't tell where your JKD knowledge came from?

Playing the "age is just a number" scenarion dosen't fly very far. There are many who can vouch for my abilities. Who can vouch for yours? Your JKD instructor? :D

[James Kovacich]

1
If you don't study or know about JKD (as you say, you are doing your own thing and have studied some Jun fan gung fu recently) then what the hell are you arguing over here for?

2
"I have been in the martial arts since off and on 1973 and I am 5th Dan and recognized by my instructors as head of my own system"

And I am deeply concerned for students learning from an on-and-off hobbyist when it comes to MA.



1
Theres your quote "thinking I have no connection to JKD. Yes I started Jun Fan recently, in the mid-90's. After I had more than 20 years as a martial artist. When did you start and what have you done and who knows you??


2
I state off and on because I tell the truth. The truth is I am a "product" of the "70's. Before you were a twinkle in your moms eye I spent several years incarcerated due to my "bad choices" as a young man. Try having a "beef" was someone and waking up one morning with that mother****er sleeping in the bunk right next to you. I've lived it and "understand" the true meaning of fighting and it's reprecussions. That is my off and on. I'm honest and don't hide anything and I'm still a martial artist for life. I have a long list of instructors who "know" me.

I have a commercial buisness but I don't teach teach commercially. My close students come to me but I travel to most of my students. Thats how I run my "training" association in California. It works for me.
This is me. http://www.scientificstreetfighting.com/academypics.html

Now who are you and why won't you tell the truth about who you are, where you trained and who your instructor is??

[Pat OMalley]

Are my ideas that confusing to you all? are they that different from your interpretations of Bruce Lee's beliefs?No young man they are not difficult and yes they are different, See here is the problem, when someone disagrees with you, you assume that we must be confused, don't talk to people like they are idiots just because they disdagree with you for you may find that it is you who may well be confused.

If so, then I supoose it does not matter any longer. I know I have said all that I can say on the subject. And I would rather not continue preaching the same point any longer.There you go, you have answered your own question, 'YOU PREACH' to people, at the end of the day young man, who are you to preach to someone, on who's authority and by what expeariance do you have the right to do so?

My JKD teacher? Do you all really want to know? Is it that important? Is that what matters? I suppose I owe this topic that much. Though I find it a difficult question.Well if telling us who your JKD teacher is, is so difficult for you, who is the confused one here? you see it is not a difficult question to answer unless you have something to hide.

I suppose it would have to be the person who first introduced me to Jeet Kune Do - to the philosophy and to the physical. The person who has shown me their teachings and corrected my mistakes. The one who guided my journey into this magnificent art. His name is Bruce Lee, who will forever remain a teacher and guide, no matter how far I go, or how good I may become, his guidance will never go unappreciated, nor forgotten.And that is suppose to be an answer, well I suppose it is, in a childish sort of way. That my freind is an imature cop out answer which anyone can use, Give us the real answer and maybe we would more than likely take you more seriously.


Pat

[Angelus]

Well i always saw JKD as the scientific approach to MA's... I mean a combination of different arts that is meant only for practical combat... Maximum efficiency from the least amount of effort...JKD sounds more and more like a MMA to me everyday... though it specializes more in striking.....

[James Kovacich]

Pat, you're a good poster. You know when and when not to post. I lurk more than I post and sometimes do caught up with the "simple ****." Guess thats my fault.

But you "hit the nail on the head" most often and post good reading and Simplicity too.

I really think that you and Simplicity have a good shot at being "2 out of 20,000."

[Simplicity]

AKJA......Well thank you for the kind words....and yes, The Oakland group is very effective......Opening minded people in martial arts will gain more, than people that are always closing the door sort of speak, won't get "IT".......When you truly help people you are helping yourself to understan even better, it is a win-win kind of thing that can blossem into better fruit for all involved....... :)

One thing I would like to put out there for all is...."I Fight Like I Train and I Train Like I Fight" (jfm) .....Something to think about!


Peace, Love and Soul
JFM

[James Kovacich]

AKJA......Well thank you for the kind words....and yes, The Oakland group is very effective......Opening minded people in martial arts will gain more, than people that are always closing the door sort of speak, won't get "IT".......When you truly help people you are helping yourself to understan even better, it is a win-win kind of thing that can blossem into better fruit for all involved....... :)

One thing I would like to put out there for all is...."I Fight Like I Train and I Train Like I Fight" (jfm) .....Something to think about!


Peace, Love and Soul
JFM
You're welcome my friend!

[Yama Tombo]

Well i always saw JKD as the scientific approach to MA's... I mean a combination of different arts that is meant only for practical combat... Maximum efficiency from the least amount of effort...JKD sounds more and more like a MMA to me everyday... though it specializes more in striking.....

Wasn't Lee in the process of adding throws and ground grappling to his list of techniques? I know he trained with Wally Jay. So, you could say it was MMA.

[tel]

Wasn't Lee in the process of adding throws and ground grappling to his list of techniques? I know he trained with Wally Jay. So, you could say it was MMA.
no because he was learning grapping to be able to understand it. to understand something its best to do it.
lee was after street fighting so going to the ground was not an option.
and if he did then he knew how to get out of it.
mma has rules. grappling is a major part of the game.
so tho he did spar using stand up and ground work. he was after alot more

[tel]

does this add to the confusing of jkd.

http://www.jkd-garydill.com/jeetkendo.htm.

its untrue when people say that some people call kali jkd.
but this does not help with the confusion

[Simplicity]

Gary Dill.......Enough said, has using BL name for yearsto promote himself, most only remember him for afew months training at Oakland school and some don;'t even remember enough said.....Somethings are better left alone, because it becomes a Political-Mess......"Walk On".....

JFM :)

[tel]

Gary Dill.......Enough said, has using BL name for yearsto promote himself, most only remember him for afew months training at Oakland school and some don;'t even remember enough said.....Somethings are better left alone, because it becomes a Political-Mess......"Walk On".....

JFM :)
cheers john. was not a fan and you comfirmed what i thought.
this is the type of guy that ruines jkd, but i will do what you say and walk past it

[James Kovacich]

Anybody that knows about the Oakland school's schedule knows that everyone trained on differant schedules. Leo Fong for one only trained on Weekends and did not know most of the other students. Dill admittedly trained less than a year but to at least give the man a bit of respect he was already Karate instrutor beforehand. I always heard the stoy before without confirmation.

But I met him at one of my instructors (Lou Angel) gatherings and he in fact was not only a karate instructor in the mid '60's he ran a Goju Ryu school for Lou Angel.

I don't see him as much differant than "most" out there. Usually the ones "without" money knockdown the ones "with" money.

To be true we all have differant ways and paths that get us there.

[tel]

Anybody that knows about the Oakland school's schedule knows that everyone trained on differant schedules. Leo Fong for one only trained on Weekends and did not know most of the other students. Dill admittedly trained less than a year but to at least give the man a bit of respect he was already Karate instrutor beforehand. I always heard the stoy before without confirmation.

But I met him at one of my instructors (Lou Angel) gatherings and he in fact was not only a karate instructor in the mid '60's he ran a Goju Ryu school for Lou Angel.

I don't see him as much differant than "most" out there. Usually the ones "without" money knockdown the ones "with" money.

To be true we all have differant ways and paths that get us there.
thing is in what other art could you do less then a year and just open up a club. he is one of the few that teach it without of validation.

[Simplicity]

AKJA..... Sorry if I speak my mind, freeman here!....If you have trained with him thats, great.......But my truth is to set that fact straight in this world about JKD......If you know me like I think you do, you'll know I'm not about the money, I'm straight up with people as to what I charge to train with me, no hinden cost......But I think the person in ? here, is about the money and has use someone name the wrong way......I wish BL was alive then I wouldn't have to do this for him, get where I'm coming from now.........If you go into something without INTEGRITY and its about the money, you can't in the process change boats, you either IS or you Ain't what you say you are........There are some fishing dealings going on there with Mr. Dill and is a fact my friend......I made a promise to help perpetuate Jeet Kune Do as "IT" was giving out from the founder, thats what I intend to do for the rest of my life.......I will not deviate from that. :D

Peace, Love and Soul,
JFM

[James Kovacich]

I don't disagree with either of you but most overlook that he has 34 years JKD experience AFTER James death. The majority ofJKD'ers don't have that much experience.

[James Kovacich]

thing is in what other art could you do less then a year and just open up a club. he is one of the few that teach it without of validation.

Just about ANY instructor not in Dan Inosantos line are without validation.

[tel]

Just about ANY instructor not in Dan Inosantos line are without validation.
in jkd that is very true.

but in jun fan the two other lines are taky kimura and james lee. but james lee didn't give out any instructorships.

[James Kovacich]

Could it be that Bruce Lee sold art his art. EVEN before Gary Dill?? :D

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=804998#post804998

I don't beleive Bruce was a sell out but the point is who are we so late in the game to judge those that came before us??

[tel]

Could it be that Bruce Lee sold art his art. EVEN before Gary Dill?? :D

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=804998#post804998

I don't beleive Bruce was a sell out but the point is who are we so late in the game to judge those that came before us??
you have to know the history before you can move forward, the good and bad

[James Kovacich]

in jkd that is very true.

but in jun fan the two other lines are taky kimura and james lee. but james lee didn't give out any instructorships.

According to the Bruce Lee Foundation (on the FAQ page) on the three differant certificates.

http://www.bruceleefoundation.com/index900.html


The Jun Fan Gung Fu certificate was given out at the schools and if you attended the school, that is what you received.

The Bruce Lees Tao of Chines Gung Fu certificate and Jeet Kune Do was given primarily to private and celebrity students.

Most of the celebrity students have the Tao of Chinese Gung Fu certificate and most of the serious private and backyard students have the Jeet Kune Do certificate and the Jeet Kune Do certificate was the last to come into existence, so it was given out to less students.

I guess it is more evidence that 3rd rank JKD was not an instructor rank at all and we already know that 3rd rank never was the highest rank anywhere in Bruces evolution of his schools and art.

And that would make Taky the most Senior and James Lee number 2. :D

[Fightingsprit29]

Here is a little something i wrote on J.k.d the way i undersand it.:)


JEET KUNE DO.....

The art of Jeet Kune Do is simply to simplify. Jeet Kune Do avoids the superficial, penetrates the complex, goes to the heart of the problem and pinpoints the key factors. Empty your cup that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality."

Many claims have been made over the years with regards to the proper definition of Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do. To some it is a process of "Change"; others see it as just a form of "modified" Wing Chun. Many recognize Jeet Kune Do to be simply a mixture of many different elements from numerous fighting styles, all combined to hopefully, at a later stage, form something meaningful to the individual concerned.

However ...

There is but ONE definition of Jeet Kune Do (As stated by the Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Nucleus) ... "Jeet Kune Do is the complete body of technical (physical, scientific) and philosophical (mental, social and spiritual) knowledge that was studied and taught by Bruce Lee during his lifetime. It is concerned solely and exclusively with Bruce Lee's personal evolution and process of self-discovery through the Martial Art, as supported by written record (personal papers and library) and oral recollections (by those students who spent time with and/or studied under him)."

A distinction is made between this body of work (Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do), and the individual student's own personal process of self discovery through the martial art, as each student is free to use all, some or none of Bruce Lee's teachings to assist him. Jeet Kune Do accepts you as you are and is not about setting up restrictions or "Ways" of doing things - It seeks to be a source of inspiration and delight for those who possess an interest in Bruce Lee, and the martial viewpoints that he created.

Jeet Kune Do should be considered as the "Root" that was established by Bruce Lee, and NOT the ultimate goal of any practitioner, as students are expected to modify, add, and delete all aspects of Jeet Kune Do until they develop something that is uniquely their own (You the individual become, through this process of self-discovery, your own best teacher).

With this explanation still fresh in your mind I urge you to continue reading I hope my explanations and ideas on this wonderful art and philosophy prove to be helpful and enlightening.



The Art Of Jeet Kune do...

This is my small contribution and brief introduction to the art of Jeet Kune Do as I understand it. Although I wished had the opportunity to meet Sifu Bruce Lee I continue to feel indebted to him for the changes his art and Philosophy have brought in my life - changing me mentally, physically and spiritually. I am hoping that this short passage will make you want to explore all the aspects of this interesting art, and so use it as a means of self-discovery ... Developing a NEW way of life!!

To begin with, Jeet Kune Do (abbreviated JKD from now on) means "The way of the intercepting fist" and with this combat phrase in mind, it is basically concerned with the interception of an attack, a movement or even an intention by your opponent to launch an attack. It is one of the most popular and well debated (due to each person's understanding and application of JKD being different from the next) martial arts in existence today.

There are two schools of thought in JKD practice today ... Jun Fan/JKD practitioners, and the JKD Concepts practitioners. Jun Fan/JKD practitioners concentrate on Bruce Lee's original teachings, training and fighting methods, while the JKD Concepts practitioners use Bruce Lee's ideas and theories and explore and add techniques from many other martial arts to their training - Whatever form of JKD you choose to follow, it is really up to you to find your own truth in the art of Jeet Kune DO !!!

Well, you might ask ....
What are the main theories, principles and techniques involved ? What is the structure of this method ? What training methods are used ? How can you get involved in the learning process ? .... I will cover that in a little more detail shortly.

Although Wing Chun, a Southern form of Chinese martial art still remains the nucleus of the JKD system, western fencing with its non-telegraphic motions, footwork as well as attack and defense theory were also incorporated. Bruce Lee also liked the way that boxers fought and so body mechanics, footwork and all the evasive tactics were taken from boxing and also incorporated into his JKD system. Bruce Lee, after researching several methods of kicking, also came up with his own unique way of kicking - very fast and very direct !! It is therefore safe to say that JKD consists primarily (although he did use elements from 26 different systems) of Wing Chun, Fencing, boxing and Bruce's own unique way of kicking.

Learning the art of JKD is like putting together a large puzzle. Each period of Bruce Lee's life holds important pieces of the puzzle - The more you learn, the more complete your puzzle becomes. It also helps to learn as much about Wing Chun as possible so that you can better understand the roots of the system - You will find that the study of Wing Chun will really solidify your knowledge and understanding of JKD (It is after all the real foundation !!).




There are three major areas of concentration in JKD:

Simplicity
Directness and,
Non-classical attitude
Simplicity means doing only what is necessary to complete a task as quickly and efficiently as possible - This is by no means as easy as it sounds and requires a lot of thought and practice through continual drilling of all the basics.

Directness means to follow the shortest and safest possible route to an opponent (normally a straight line) with non-telegraphic motions and doing as much damage as possible. The principle of directness in JKD can be found in the individual's ability to use his longest weapon (usually his lead hand or leg) against the nearest target on his opponent's body.

Non-classical means that all the techniques are delivered in a practical manner, unlike the majority of "fancy" techniques that are used and taught in traditional martial arts.

The first thing that must be considered is the fighting stance (Bai-jong), or the on -guard stance which Bruce Lee believed must have your power side forward - In this position your most powerful weapons are closest to your target. This stance is highly mobile with good offensive and defensive capabilities ... Plus much much more!!
Mobility, more than anything else is highly stressed in JKD, as combat is a matter of movements ... Footwork is light, quick and economical. Good footwork is essential to close (bridge) the gap to your opponent and attack powerfully, or evade and counter an opponent's attack. The JKD fighter will use linear, lateral, angular and circular footwork patterns, so as to put himself in the best possible range.

There are three fighting ranges emphasized in JKD:

Long range
Medium range and,
Close range
Each of these three ranges must be practiced. The fighter must understand the tools applied in each range and how to use them effectively. Long range is known as the fighting measure, and is the most favorable position to maintain when you are not attacking. In this long range you are basically very "safe" and it is from here that you can test your opponent's reactions without being in too much danger of being hit. You can test your opponent's reactions by using feinting or probing attacks which appear to be real!!

Kicks, punches, trapping and grappling movements can all be used in the medium range. As a general rule, by the time your opponent is moving into the medium range you should have already intercepted him and countered his offense with an attack of your own.

Once we get into the close range, head butts, elbows and knees can now be used. This is generally where close quarter grappling occurs (chokes, strangles etc.) and is a very deadly range due to the serious nature of the natural body weapons that can be employed.

Physical blocking of an incoming blow is only used as a last resort by the JKD practitioner ... instead he uses the four corner parry which redirects the incoming force. The best defense in JKD is to attack!! The next preferred method of defense is the simultaneous attack and defense whereby you parry the opponent's attack while delivering (at the same time) an attack of your own to the open line. An even more effective form of defense is to fire a fast powerful attack of your own into the same line as the incoming attack, thereby deflecting the oncoming attack and landing successfully on your target - This form of interception is called the stop-hit; when using the foot for interception it is called a stop-kick. When you have honed your interception skills, damage is done immediately to the attacker, both mentally and physically.

The most important factor in JKD training is sensitivity training. Every offensive and defensive movement will have a certain type of energy and energy flow. Sensitivity drills that are used in JKD are referred to as Chi Sao or "Sticking hands" and use of this drill will enable the student to "sense" the opponent's energy quickly and subsequently trap and counter him immediately. Chi Gerk or "Sticking legs" develops the sensitivity in the legs for sweeps, deflections and counter kicks practitioners.

Another area of vital importance in JKD is Bruce Lee's five ways of attacking. Bruce Lee realized that there are essentially only five ways that you can attack an opponent and that every empty hand attack ever conceived will fall into one of these five categories.

One of the most useful pieces of equipment for the JKD practitioner is the Mook Jong or the wooden dummy (Refer to the last picture in my photo album) from the Wing Chun system of Chinese Kung Fu - This piece of equipment allows you to train alone when no partners are available. The wooden dummy consists of a head, trunk, two upper arms, a lower arm and a lower (sometimes metal) extension that represents the lead leg of an opponent ... All the offensive and defensive moves can be performed on the dummy. Striking the dummy and performing your defensive moves on it also conditions the arms and the legs for impact - This was one of Bruce Lee's favorite pieces of training equipment !!

As you can see Jeet Kune Do is a very well rounded and balanced martial art which has something special to offer everyone from a mental, physical and spiritual point of view. It is, and will become - If you let it ... "A NEW WAY OF LIFE".

Jeet Kune Do Fitness

Intense physical training is a must in JKD or any other external Martial Art for that matter!! Please excuse the brutality in what I am about to say, but the last thing that you want to happen to you is to lose your life due to not being prepared or not in a good enough shape to carry through with a confrontation.

Bruce Lee emphasized fitness over and over again with all his students - Cardiovascular, flexibility and strength training. Cardiovascular conditioning can be accomplished through running, cycling, rope skipping, running stairs, rowing, swimming, shadowboxing and/or footwork mobility drills to name but a few ...To just give you an idea of Bruce Lee's physical prowess, he would run four miles a day in 24 to 25 minutes, thereafter he would ride his stationary exercycle full speed - 35 to 40 miles per hour continuously for 45 minutes to an hour!!

Flexibility can be maintained by implementing a serious stretching routine of at least two twenty minute sessions per day.

Strength training can be accomplished through the use of isometrics, static contraction exercises, free weights, weight machines etc.

An important element that all JKD practitioners must experience is lots of good, hard sparring with protective equipment - This brings all the fitness aspects together, as well as conditioning your body for impact, developing self-confidence, mobility, timing, power, reflexes, range awareness and the endurance necessary to succeed in an all out confrontation.

[Beltless]

Oh my God can someone kill this guy allready!

[James Kovacich]

Here is a little something i wrote on J.k.d the way i undersand it.:)


JEET KUNE DO.....

The art of Jeet Kune Do is simply to simplify. Jeet Kune Do avoids the superficial, penetrates the complex, goes to the heart of the problem and pinpoints the key factors. Empty your cup that it may be filled; become devoid to gain totality."

Many claims have been made over the years with regards to the proper definition of Bruce Lee's art of Jeet Kune Do. To some it is a process of "Change"; others see it as just a form of "modified" Wing Chun. Many recognize Jeet Kune Do to be simply a mixture of many different elements from numerous fighting styles, all combined to hopefully, at a later stage, form something meaningful to the individual concerned.

However ...

There is but ONE definition of Jeet Kune Do (As stated by the Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do Nucleus) ... "Jeet Kune Do is the complete body of technical (physical, scientific) and philosophical (mental, social and spiritual) knowledge that was studied and taught by Bruce Lee during his lifetime. It is concerned solely and exclusively with Bruce Lee's personal evolution and process of self-discovery through the Martial Art, as supported by written record (personal papers and library) and oral recollections (by those students who spent time with and/or studied under him)."

A distinction is made between this body of work (Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do), and the individual student's own personal process of self discovery through the martial art, as each student is free to use all, some or none of Bruce Lee's teachings to assist him. Jeet Kune Do accepts you as you are and is not about setting up restrictions or "Ways" of doing things - It seeks to be a source of inspiration and delight for those who possess an interest in Bruce Lee, and the martial viewpoints that he created.

Jeet Kune Do should be considered as the "Root" that was established by Bruce Lee, and NOT the ultimate goal of any practitioner, as students are expected to modify, add, and delete all aspects of Jeet Kune Do until they develop something that is uniquely their own (You the individual become, through this process of self-discovery, your own best teacher).

With this explanation still fresh in your mind I urge you to continue reading I hope my explanations and ideas on this wonderful art and philosophy prove to be helpful and enlightening.



The Art Of Jeet Kune do...

This is my small contribution and brief introduction to the art of Jeet Kune Do as I understand it. Although I wished had the opportunity to meet Sifu Bruce Lee I continue to feel indebted to him for the changes his art and Philosophy have brought in my life - changing me mentally, physically and spiritually. I am hoping that this short passage will make you want to explore all the aspects of this interesting art, and so use it as a means of self-discovery ... Developing a NEW way of life!!

To begin with, Jeet Kune Do (abbreviated JKD from now on) means "The way of the intercepting fist" and with this combat phrase in mind, it is basically concerned with the interception of an attack, a movement or even an intention by your opponent to launch an attack. It is one of the most popular and well debated (due to each person's understanding and application of JKD being different from the next) martial arts in existence today.

There are two schools of thought in JKD practice today ... Jun Fan/JKD practitioners, and the JKD Concepts practitioners. Jun Fan/JKD practitioners concentrate on Bruce Lee's original teachings, training and fighting methods, while the JKD Concepts practitioners use Bruce Lee's ideas and theories and explore and add techniques from many other martial arts to their training - Whatever form of JKD you choose to follow, it is really up to you to find your own truth in the art of Jeet Kune DO !!!

Well, you might ask ....
What are the main theories, principles and techniques involved ? What is the structure of this method ? What training methods are used ? How can you get involved in the learning process ? .... I will cover that in a little more detail shortly.

Although Wing Chun, a Southern form of Chinese martial art still remains the nucleus of the JKD system, western fencing with its non-telegraphic motions, footwork as well as attack and defense theory were also incorporated. Bruce Lee also liked the way that boxers fought and so body mechanics, footwork and all the evasive tactics were taken from boxing and also incorporated into his JKD system. Bruce Lee, after researching several methods of kicking, also came up with his own unique way of kicking - very fast and very direct !! It is therefore safe to say that JKD consists primarily (although he did use elements from 26 different systems) of Wing Chun, Fencing, boxing and Bruce's own unique way of kicking.

Learning the art of JKD is like putting together a large puzzle. Each period of Bruce Lee's life holds important pieces of the puzzle - The more you learn, the more complete your puzzle becomes. It also helps to learn as much about Wing Chun as possible so that you can better understand the roots of the system - You will find that the study of Wing Chun will really solidify your knowledge and understanding of JKD (It is after all the real foundation !!).




There are three major areas of concentration in JKD:

Simplicity
Directness and,
Non-classical attitude
Simplicity means doing only what is necessary to complete a task as quickly and efficiently as possible - This is by no means as easy as it sounds and requires a lot of thought and practice through continual drilling of all the basics.

Directness means to follow the shortest and safest possible route to an opponent (normally a straight line) with non-telegraphic motions and doing as much damage as possible. The principle of directness in JKD can be found in the individual's ability to use his longest weapon (usually his lead hand or leg) against the nearest target on his opponent's body.

Non-classical means that all the techniques are delivered in a practical manner, unlike the majority of "fancy" techniques that are used and taught in traditional martial arts.

The first thing that must be considered is the fighting stance (Bai-jong), or the on -guard stance which Bruce Lee believed must have your power side forward - In this position your most powerful weapons are closest to your target. This stance is highly mobile with good offensive and defensive capabilities ... Plus much much more!!
Mobility, more than anything else is highly stressed in JKD, as combat is a matter of movements ... Footwork is light, quick and economical. Good footwork is essential to close (bridge) the gap to your opponent and attack powerfully, or evade and counter an opponent's attack. The JKD fighter will use linear, lateral, angular and circular footwork patterns, so as to put himself in the best possible range.

There are three fighting ranges emphasized in JKD:

Long range
Medium range and,
Close range
Each of these three ranges must be practiced. The fighter must understand the tools applied in each range and how to use them effectively. Long range is known as the fighting measure, and is the most favorable position to maintain when you are not attacking. In this long range you are basically very "safe" and it is from here that you can test your opponent's reactions without being in too much danger of being hit. You can test your opponent's reactions by using feinting or probing attacks which appear to be real!!

Kicks, punches, trapping and grappling movements can all be used in the medium range. As a general rule, by the time your opponent is moving into the medium range you should have already intercepted him and countered his offense with an attack of your own.

Once we get into the close range, head butts, elbows and knees can now be used. This is generally where close quarter grappling occurs (chokes, strangles etc.) and is a very deadly range due to the serious nature of the natural body weapons that can be employed.

Physical blocking of an incoming blow is only used as a last resort by the JKD practitioner ... instead he uses the four corner parry which redirects the incoming force. The best defense in JKD is to attack!! The next preferred method of defense is the simultaneous attack and defense whereby you parry the opponent's attack while delivering (at the same time) an attack of your own to the open line. An even more effective form of defense is to fire a fast powerful attack of your own into the same line as the incoming attack, thereby deflecting the oncoming attack and landing successfully on your target - This form of interception is called the stop-hit; when using the foot for interception it is called a stop-kick. When you have honed your interception skills, damage is done immediately to the attacker, both mentally and physically.

The most important factor in JKD training is sensitivity training. Every offensive and defensive movement will have a certain type of energy and energy flow. Sensitivity drills that are used in JKD are referred to as Chi Sao or "Sticking hands" and use of this drill will enable the student to "sense" the opponent's energy quickly and subsequently trap and counter him immediately. Chi Gerk or "Sticking legs" develops the sensitivity in the legs for sweeps, deflections and counter kicks practitioners.

Another area of vital importance in JKD is Bruce Lee's five ways of attacking. Bruce Lee realized that there are essentially only five ways that you can attack an opponent and that every empty hand attack ever conceived will fall into one of these five categories.

One of the most useful pieces of equipment for the JKD practitioner is the Mook Jong or the wooden dummy (Refer to the last picture in my photo album) from the Wing Chun system of Chinese Kung Fu - This piece of equipment allows you to train alone when no partners are available. The wooden dummy consists of a head, trunk, two upper arms, a lower arm and a lower (sometimes metal) extension that represents the lead leg of an opponent ... All the offensive and defensive moves can be performed on the dummy. Striking the dummy and performing your defensive moves on it also conditions the arms and the legs for impact - This was one of Bruce Lee's favorite pieces of training equipment !!

As you can see Jeet Kune Do is a very well rounded and balanced martial art which has something special to offer everyone from a mental, physical and spiritual point of view. It is, and will become - If you let it ... "A NEW WAY OF LIFE".

Jeet Kune Do Fitness

Intense physical training is a must in JKD or any other external Martial Art for that matter!! Please excuse the brutality in what I am about to say, but the last thing that you want to happen to you is to lose your life due to not being prepared or not in a good enough shape to carry through with a confrontation.

Bruce Lee emphasized fitness over and over again with all his students - Cardiovascular, flexibility and strength training. Cardiovascular conditioning can be accomplished through running, cycling, rope skipping, running stairs, rowing, swimming, shadowboxing and/or footwork mobility drills to name but a few ...To just give you an idea of Bruce Lee's physical prowess, he would run four miles a day in 24 to 25 minutes, thereafter he would ride his stationary exercycle full speed - 35 to 40 miles per hour continuously for 45 minutes to an hour!!

Flexibility can be maintained by implementing a serious stretching routine of at least two twenty minute sessions per day.

Strength training can be accomplished through the use of isometrics, static contraction exercises, free weights, weight machines etc.

An important element that all JKD practitioners must experience is lots of good, hard sparring with protective equipment - This brings all the fitness aspects together, as well as conditioning your body for impact, developing self-confidence, mobility, timing, power, reflexes, range awareness and the endurance necessary to succeed in an all out confrontation.
Are you the TRUE author????????

I hate it when people read something they like and post it as their own.

[Yatezy]

As previously stated in that long post bruce lee chose to use his power side closest to the target, but a student of his (cant remember the name but could be found out if needed) prefered to use his weaker side closer to the target. As it stated in the book (i have read) it wouldve looked as if he was performin his stance wrong but because of JKD concepts he was embracin it and usin what he felt comfortable with. Which under JKD is correct.

Well thats how ive always seen it, ive never felt you could be taught the martial art of JKD because to be taught somethin esp techniques you need guidelines and set patterns to learn from. Which is everythin JKD stands against, but (also posted earlier) if you already have a base in a MA then JKD can help further your trainin by 'openin your mind' so to speak.

As Bruce Lee died we will never know the answer and will always continue to fight over what is JKD but i think you need base in some sort of art, whether it be street defence, MT, boxin, or jus plain ole bar room brawl style, etc. because to break the boundaries you have to know what the boundaries are.

Sorry if thats a lil long and all the points have been covered already, just had to get it off my chest!

[Angelus]

Jeet Kun Do = Philosophy (and Bruce translated it as "way of the intercepting fist"). It's all theory, no hard and fast techinque (ie. here are the specific mechanics of a technique).

Jun Fan = Martial Art (Created by Bruce, propogated by Dan Inasanto and others). This is heavily influenced by Wing Chun and Western Boxing (amoung other arts).

JKD is layered on top of Jun Fan (or any other martial art) as a method of reaching a personal expression for martial arts. Or at least that is the method that Inasanto affiliates differentiate things. Hence they teach Jun Fan as the martial art and teach Jeet Kun Do as the concept. I'm not sure if Linda Lee and the JKD nucleus treat things the same way.

I tend to think the Inasanto method is the proper way based on my research.

Where does Kimura fit into all this? Seems like hes been forgotten or become an underdog.
I remember they had Bruce Lee's lost interview on Google - with Pierre Berton - a few months back but i believe it has been removed due to copyright infringement....
Anyone know where else to find it?

[tel]

Where does Kimura fit into all this? Seems like hes been forgotten or become an underdog.
I remember they had Bruce Lee's lost interview on Google - with Pierre Berton - a few months back but i believe it has been removed due to copyright infringement....
Anyone know where else to find it?
they sell it at hmv.
also i totally agree with what matt said. tho jerry poteet does protect the art as well

[TCaetano]

For me :

Jeet Kune Do - A philosophy, a concept, a way of living and training martial arts. JKD, for me, could be defined throught 3 key words. Self-Expression, Evolution and Adaptation. It´s a path that will lead to a personal style of fighting.

Jun Fan JKD - The martial art. Bruce Lee materialization of the JKD philosophy. Because JFJKD is the personal style of the creator of JKD and because it's something solid and objective, something that can be taught, something that can be used as an example, JFJKD is the basis in the studying of JKD. We build a house starting from the foundations. It's by following that kind logic that JFJKD must and should be taught.

[path_one]

Dragon was crap IMHO doubt this will be any better and I doubt it'll change the idea people have that JKD is a style they can learn when it clearly isn't


http://www.totalfilm.com/movie_news/rob_cohen_tackling_rage__and__fury