MMA News & Rumours [Archive] - Martial Arts Planet

Apotheosis

14-Dec-2006, 01:55 AM

Biggest rumour currently is Mirko heading to the UFC. Anyone have any thoughts?

Source (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=6352)

Artikon

14-Dec-2006, 05:21 AM

Wigglyman

14-Dec-2006, 01:48 PM

Would love to see it happen. HWY division needs some fresh blood with some talent and I think having Mirko there would shake things up a little bit. I'll be a little dissapointed though if we don't get to see a Fedor and Crocop rematch though.

Who knows really until everything is confirmed.

The addition of Cro-Cop will just leave them in the same position as before...if he beat's Tim...Who else stands a chance? I guess you gotta give anyone with a ground game a chance, but then again they will more than likely not be able to get him down and then KO'd by a LHK!

But yeh he has doen this before, talked about the UFC to get Pride to pay him more. However Sherdog have reported he has chosen the UFC (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=6352)

So who knows!!

Sever

14-Dec-2006, 06:10 PM

According to an interview with him at Jutarnji (http://www.jutarnji.hr/sport/ostalisportovi/clanak/art-2006,12,14,,54543.jl), he's signed nothing yet and no one but him knows what it will be, basically saying that all Sherdog and MMAWeekly's reporting rumours as fact is just bull.
It translates to
Mirko :
"I have received an offer from UFC and some other companies, BUT I HAVE NOT PROMISED NOTHING TO NOBODY, NEITHER SIGNED ANY CONTRACT ABOUT MY FUTURE FIGHTING COMPANY.!!!!
I will call a public conference, where I'll reveile my decision.
I don't know who is the source in my club, because nobody beside me knows what will I do in my future sport career."

I'll be shocked if he leaves Pride and goes to the UFC. K-1 Heroes, I'll be less shocked, but still very surprised
In all honesty, I can only think of one reason why he'd go to the UFC and it sure as hell isn't the money. He made noises about retiring before the OWGP finals; if he's seriously considering hanging up the gloves soon, going to the UFC secures him the legacy of being the only man to get to the higher echelons of the three major organisations, not to mention getting him a heavyweight champion belt. That said, I still think this whole UFC courtship from him is just his way of pressuring Pride into getting him his Fedor rematch; he's always shown that he wants to fight the best, and the best is secured with Pride for the concievable future

Apotheosis

14-Dec-2006, 06:10 PM

If he goes to UFC, he will be champ for a good amount of time.

He has faced much better grapplers in Pride than the UFC can throw at him, and better strikers.

He may be making the right move, Pride is struggling and the UFC is booming. He could probably make more money here in the States via advertising plus the UFC can afford to pay him more(remains to be seen if they will cough up the money though).

The one reason I am wavering, is Mirko does NOT strike me as the type of guy who would willingly give up a title shot against his "nemesis". He strikes me as the type of guy who wants to prove he is the best, and knows Fedor is the best atm.

Rapid

14-Dec-2006, 07:21 PM

If all the aquisitions the UFC are supposedly making actually happen then UFC is gunna be friggin awesome. They'll need to aquire a few more good heavyweights though otherwise Crocop will kill everyone, we know his fights wont be boring though.

Sever

15-Dec-2006, 12:00 AM

He may be making the right move, Pride is struggling and the UFC is booming. He could probably make more money here in the States via advertising plus the UFC can afford to pay him moreThere's no chance of that. The UFC may pony up more money per fight than Pride's offer (though I'll believe it when I see it), but even if Pride were to go under (I'll believe that when I see it too), there's no way in hell he - or any MMA fighter - will make more money in US advertising than he does in Asia. The market penetration isn't there and certainly won't be during Crocop's career span, or ever, probably

Wigglyman

15-Dec-2006, 02:33 AM

Gotta believe that the only reason he will leavPride is that he wont get his rematch against Fedor...and with the Fedor and Bodog situation, prehaps he doesn't see himself getting that match.

Apotheosis

15-Dec-2006, 04:42 AM

There's no chance of that. The UFC may pony up more money per fight than Pride's offer (though I'll believe it when I see it), but even if Pride were to go under (I'll believe that when I see it too), there's no way in hell he - or any MMA fighter - will make more money in US advertising than he does in Asia. The market penetration isn't there and certainly won't be during Crocop's career span, or ever, probably

I have to disagree. The UFC can afford to pay more than Pride(rather easily) to start off with.

Then you have marketing/advertising...The American media is just now noticing MMA fighters and guys like Tito are bringing in big bucks. Mirko would be very marketable with both his "clean cut" image and his exciting style, so I could see him making a lot of money here in the U.S. It's just a matter of time till top fighters are getting T-Shirts and shoes etc...

Plus the UFC has made it known they are expanding internationally, so they can use Mirko's popularity to break into the international markets and Mirko could still benefit from advertisements in Asia/Europe as well as the U.S.

Pride is on a downslide atm, and they cannot give Mirko the same amount of exposure that the UFC can.

Gotta believe that the only reason he will leavPride is that he wont get his rematch against Fedor...and with the Fedor and Bodog situation, prehaps he doesn't see himself getting that match.

Fedor did resign with Pride, but if Mirko does not then there is no chance Mirko gets a title shot.

Sever

15-Dec-2006, 07:10 PM

I have to disagree. The UFC can afford to pay more than Pride(rather easily) to start off with.

Then you have marketing/advertising...The American media is just now noticing MMA fighters and guys like Tito are bringing in big bucks. Mirko would be very marketable with both his "clean cut" image and his exciting style, so I could see him making a lot of money here in the U.S. It's just a matter of time till top fighters are getting T-Shirts and shoes etc...A great eighteen months for the UFC's chequebook doesn't suddenly mean that they're richer than an organisation that's been consistantly selling out 50,000+ seater arenas for the last ten years, just like a tremulous year for Pride doesn't suddenly mean they're skint. A couple of years down the line if they've not secured a TV deal, they'll be hurting badly, if not shutting up shop completely, and they're probably feeling a bit of a sting right now, but I doubt they're in as bad a financial situation as some people seem to think. They've just got too much of a market behind them. Like I said in my previous post; even if Pride goes down, the real money in the form of bonuses will always be in Japan and it'd be a Japanese organisation that'd be picking most of the bones of Pride (probably K-1 Heroes)
As for the marketing; T-shirts, gloves, Xyience etc can be pretty lucrative, but it's niche marketing, ie, products aimed at a specific group. In the advertising game, that's small fry
Over in Asia - Japan and Korea especially - combat sports have achieved a much larger degree of market penetration; they're essentially the favourite sports. This opens up further advertising opportunities for name fighters including things like razors and toilet roll (just two doing the rounds right now over there; Crocop's advertising Schick razors and Wandy's advertising loo roll) which are products aimed at a much larger market, much like over here in England we see football players endorsing
Advertising for a product aimed at a niche (examples: T-shirts - fighter's fans. Gloves - people that train in the sport. Xyience - people who know nothing about dietary supplements) can make a name in that niche some nice coin proportionally (ie, Chuck Liddell will make more off his Xyience sponsorship than an up and coming fighter), but advertising for a product aimed towards a larger market (household appliances, cosmetics, cars, bog roll - the target audience is pretty much everyone) will get more airtime in prime slots and more magazine and newspaper space, thus generate more revenue for the producers and conversely the celebrity advertising it
For a MMA as a sport (and then it's fighters as individuals) to achieve that kind of market penetration, MMA needs to become a top-viewed, mainstream sport in the West. In order to do that, it's got to work it's way in with - or most likely dislodge one or two of - football, rugby, cricket, boxing, golf, tennis and athletics; that's just in England, America's got different sports, but it's still the same model. Do I think MMA will ever achieve that kind of penetration? I'd love to see it, but I've got my doubts due to how established these sports are. Will this happen in Crocop's career span? Not a chance, hence why for MMA or K-1 rules fighters (and a fair few pro-wrestlers, surprisingly), the advertising bucks come from the Asian markets where the combat sports are entrenched to that level. The level we can realistically expect MMA to reach in the West is that of pro wrestling - well represented within that niche, but aside from chat show appearances in "up cycles" of business, it's appeal will largely remain within said niche
Phew, nice to know that time in advertising wasn't wasted, eh? :)

Wigglyman

16-Dec-2006, 12:10 AM

For a MMA as a sport (and then it's fighters as individuals) to achieve that kind of market penetration, MMA needs to become a top-viewed, mainstream sport in the West. In order to do that, it's got to work it's way in with - or most likely dislodge one or two of - football, rugby, cricket, boxing, golf, tennis and athletics; that's just in England, America's got different sports, but it's still the same model. Do I think MMA will ever achieve that kind of penetration? :)

LOL thanks for the large block of text, you had some really good points but my stupididy ment it took an age for me to read, as I kept loosing my place nad reasing the same line over and over again!!

Anyways Yes I do believe as the UFC has a large % of its audience in the 18-30 age range...a range advertisers love. Its the same reason advertisers loved Wrestling when they had that market and now the UFC has it I believe it can push, wether it will is something else.

BUT BACK ON TOPIC...Found this: http://www.mmauniverse.com/news/SS1104

Really does sound like he is just using the UFC to up his PRIDE pay cheque...again!

Sever

16-Dec-2006, 07:40 AM

LOL thanks for the large block of text, you had some really good points but my stupididy ment it took an age for me to read, as I kept loosing my place nad reasing the same line over and over again!!Sorry about that, man. I just started and couldn't stop (damn that studying and work experience!). Still, it could've been worse - I could've not used any paragraphs :eek: :D
Anyways Yes I do believe as the UFC has a large % of its audience in the 18-30 age range...a range advertisers love. Its the same reason advertisers loved Wrestling when they had that market and now the UFC has it I believe it can push, wether it will is something else.Yeah, that's essentially the crux of it. The thing is, the Western market for combat sports is largely confined to that particular demographic (males aged 18-34) - MMA can make a bomb in that demographic during up-cycles (much like WWE does in its up-cycles), but I honestly don't see the Western market opening up to it the way it has in Asia, certainly not in the immediate future. The cultures are just very different, so sadly, your mum will not be watching a blender ad with Chuck Liddell in it in the middle of Desperate Housewives

BUT BACK ON TOPIC...Found this: http://www.mmauniverse.com/news/SS1104

Really does sound like he is just using the UFC to up his PRIDE pay cheque...again!Crocop's that rarest of rare things - a politician that's also a smart guy. He knows how the game's played outside the ring, and he's playing it to his strengths. It's not the nicest attribute, but it works for him and as long as it keeps him fighting, I can handle it

Apotheosis

17-Dec-2006, 05:37 AM

A great eighteen months for the UFC's chequebook doesn't suddenly mean that they're richer than an organisation that's been consistantly selling out 50,000+ seater arenas for the last ten years, just like a tremulous year for Pride doesn't suddenly mean they're skint.

Honestly, I think the UFC does have more money than Pride at this time. I also think the UFC will continue to grow while Pride will continue to decline for at least the next 6 months or so.

No one has any idea how much money the UFC has made recently, but I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in a $500 million profit this year.

As to Pride, I'm not saying their poor. They are obviously still a major organization but they are not very financially healthy.

A couple of years down the line if they've not secured a TV deal, they'll be hurting badly, if not shutting up shop completely, and they're probably feeling a bit of a sting right now, but I doubt they're in as bad a financial situation as
some people seem to think. They've just got too much of a market behind them. Like I said in my previous post; even if Pride goes down, the real money in the form of bonuses will always be in Japan and it'd be a Japanese organisation that'd be picking most of the bones of Pride (probably K-1 Heroes)

I agree as far as Pride, they are not in danger of going bankrupt but I do believe they are feeling the sting.

As for the marketing; T-shirts, gloves, Xyience etc can be pretty lucrative, but it's niche marketing, ie, products aimed at a specific group. In the advertising game, that's small fry

To be fair everything is niche marketing, I think your trying to point out the relatively small size of the MMA niche atm.

But I think that's going to change, I honestly think the right MMA fighter could "breakthrough" and grab a major commercial deal for something like gatorade. Likely a year or 2 off still, but there is a huge potential.

Over in Asia - Japan and Korea especially - combat sports have achieved a much larger degree of market penetration; they're essentially the favourite sports. This opens up further advertising opportunities for name fighters including things like razors and toilet roll (just two doing the rounds right now over there; Crocop's advertising Schick razors and Wandy's advertising loo roll) which are products aimed at a much larger market, much like over here in England we see football players endorsing

Ahh but remember the UFC is planning to expand. They are so well off that they can reasonably expand in a way that Pride cannot atm. They have the money to put on shows in Mexico, Canada, England etc.. and I have no doubt they will at least go to China.

Advertising for a product aimed at a niche (examples: T-shirts - fighter's fans. Gloves - people that train in the sport. Xyience - people who know nothing about dietary supplements) can make a name in that niche some nice coin proportionally (ie, Chuck Liddell will make more off his Xyience sponsorship than an up and coming fighter), but advertising for a product aimed towards a larger market (household appliances, cosmetics, cars, bog roll - the target audience is pretty much everyone) will get more airtime in prime slots and more magazine and newspaper space, thus generate more revenue for the producers and conversely the celebrity advertising it

I totally agree, but I also think that the UFC is going to have a larger market(US, Mexico, Canada at the least) and as it gains popularity I think they will move into mainstream advertising.

For a MMA as a sport (and then it's fighters as individuals) to achieve that kind of market penetration, MMA needs to become a top-viewed, mainstream sport in the West. In order to do that, it's got to work it's way in with - or most likely dislodge one or two of - football, rugby, cricket, boxing, golf, tennis and athletics; that's just in England, America's got different sports, but it's still the same model. Do I think MMA will ever achieve that kind of penetration? I'd love to see it, but I've got my doubts due to how established these sports are. Will this happen in Crocop's career span? Not a chance, hence why for MMA or K-1 rules fighters (and a fair few pro-wrestlers, surprisingly), the advertising bucks come from the Asian markets where the combat sports are entrenched to that level.

I agree they need to grow to "rival" the big sports- Golf, NFL, MLB, NBA, Nascar, but I truly believe they can. A recent UFN event got more 18-34 viewers than a big MLB(baseball) game going on at the same time.

The biggest fans for NFL, NBA, Nascar are males. UFC is very "male orientated", their fans love to grab a beer and watch the show. I think the UFC can reach these guys, BUT I think the UFC needs to be smart and focus on tv deals. PPV is great to start with, but mainstream tv deals is where the real money is at.

The level we can realistically expect MMA to reach in the West is that of pro wrestling - well represented within that niche, but aside from chat show appearances in "up cycles" of business, it's appeal will largely remain within said niche
Phew, nice to know that time in advertising wasn't wasted, eh? :)

Again, I disagree. A lot of people hate pro wrestling because it is fake. They love the slams/athleticism but they hate the "fakeness".

MMA is real, people love real.

I obviously cannot say that MMA is going to be the biggest sport in 10 years, but I do think that the UFC is going to be a major sport in the coming 10 years and will be bringing in truckloads of money.

Sever

17-Dec-2006, 11:40 AM

Honestly, I think the UFC does have more money than Pride at this time. I also think the UFC will continue to grow while Pride will continue to decline for at least the next 6 months or so.

No one has any idea how much money the UFC has made recently, but I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in a $500 million profit this year.I'd be absolutely shocked if they made that; counting overheads, PPV-company cuts, salaries, fighter payouts, their supposed "under the table" fighter bonuses, lawsuits etc. They've not been actually in profit for very long, it doesn't go from running at a loss to making $500million or anywhere close. They're better off now than they've ever been, but the UFC is not Microsoft
To be fair everything is niche marketingHardly. Most things generally have a particular target market, but the fact is that some products are considered "mainstream" because their target audience is much, much wider. Products which are everyday household items, luxury goods that people that can actually afford them will want (such as everyday cars, not things like Hummers which most people can't afford and those people that can, probably don't want them anyway), are just a couple of examples. These are products that fighters in Japan advertise. This is not niche marketing

Anything MMA stars advertise will be niche marketing in the West purely because, for all your "but the UFC's huge," the fact is, it's still a sport that's achieved a small degree of market penetration. It may be huge in the "disposable income" bracket (18-34 year old males) at the moment, it may even expand in that bracket (and it probably will before interest drops off and the dreaded "down cycle" kicks in) and it may be a fairly warm ticket in Vegas, just like with the exposure it's getting right now, most people may be aware of the UFC's existance in the way they're aware of the WWE's when it's in up-cycles. They may even have heard of Tito Ortiz (probably more to do with the whole Jenna deal than anything else), but the vast majority of the TV viewing public wouldn't recognise Chuck Liddell if he turned up on a Nissan advert in the middle of a prime time show. This is why the advertising will stick to its niches for the most part, and those niches will be largely sport-related
But I think that's going to change, I honestly think the right MMA fighter could "breakthrough" and grab a major commercial deal for something like gatorade. Likely a year or 2 off still, but there is a huge potentialWhen the up-cycle crests (probably early this coming year), that could potentially happen, but it might well not. Advertisers understand business cycles for non-seasonal sports and shows, as well as how to work to their target audience. If they did stick a fighter in a sports drink ad, the exposure that particular ad recieved would be probably wider, but still the same model as the Xyience ones - all over the place when the UFC's main audience is tuning in (TUF, Spike TV events) but, for the most part, nowhere in sight outside that particular banding unless they're on a chat show or something. Using professional fighters for mainstream advertising is a very risky thing, which is something I'll expand on shortly
Ahh but remember the UFC is planning to expand. They are so well off that they can reasonably expand in a way that Pride cannot atm. They have the money to put on shows in Mexico, Canada, England etc.. and I have no doubt they will at least go to China.This point's a bit of a non-sequitur and you seem a little confused about what "expansion" actually is

Putting on shows in other countries once or twice a year is not "expansion," no matter what the Zuffa hype machine tells you. It's hitting and running in a market that's already established. Pride have done it (America, Europe, they're doing Macau, America again a couple of times next year and a bunch of other markets) K-1 does it all the time; this is just taking a show and putting it on in a different place from usual - it tends to be quite profitable from the live gate in that people who don't usually get to see the show live will make the effort to get down there, but one show there a year isn't cracking a market, it's visiting the viewers that are already there. I know bands who go and play in Japan at the end of their tours to make some money; it's the same thing. It's not an indication of how healthy the organisation's bank balance is, it's an indication of the fact that they want more money. Nothing wrong with that; I want more money too, but it's not expansion

"Expansion" would be if the UFC were to buy out and brand the shows in that particular area. If, for example, Cage Rage became UFC UK, the UFC can be said to have expanded to the UK. If they put on a show over here, they've put on a show over here (and it'll be one I'll have been to). In coming years, they might attempt to do that; there would be advantages, but also a lot of disadvantages too
I totally agree, but I also think that the UFC is going to have a larger market(US, Mexico, Canada at the least) and as it gains popularity I think they will move into mainstream advertising.You've missed the point. Getting footholds in other markets (and they're going to have a hell of a lot of work to do to crack Mexico - that's boxing land through and through, not to mention being a little on the poor side) is all well and good, but cracking the market to the degree you seem to think they will is simply an unrealistic goal.

There's a reason many of the world's best football players play in England - England may be a very small country and football (soccer, if we're calling it a silly name) is a sport that's played and broadcast world wide, but due to the degree of market penetration that sport has here (I hate football, never watch a game, but I know who's on top and I recognise the players when they're in adverts), the money is better than anywhere else in the world for that particular sport. This is the level combat sports are at in the Asian market. This is not a level the UFC will reach in the West in the foreseeable future. There are many cultural issues at play there, not to mention the fact that the main sports are just too entrenched in the public psyche
I agree they need to grow to "rival" the big sports- Golf, NFL, MLB, NBA, Nascar, but I truly believe they can. A recent UFN event got more 18-34 viewers than a big MLB(baseball) game going on at the same time.That's an interesting statistic, but again, it's a different point (not excluding the potential skewing of the statistics by the game being watched in bars, round friends houses etc)

The point I was making was that in order to crack the mainstream advertising market, it's got to expand beyond its target market. This means it has to get into the mainstream sports list, which simply doesn't occur when a sport (or indeed any show) is largely confined to one particular narrow target market. There's also the fact that, throwing aside the sport's growth issue, which I'll discuss in a moment, advertisers for mainstream products in the West always have been and always will be very wary about using someone who hits people for a living in ads, which is why you see very few boxers advertising such products compared to football stars. There are exceptions; Frank Bruno and Chris Eubank being notable examples, but they come from a sport with a very long and rich history (something MMA doesn't really have at the moment) and Bruno's always been seen as a gentle giant, which is a characteristic advertisers can always use, and Eubank's just bonkers (he also got no mainstream advertising exposure until he retired from the sport).

Advertisers are wary because it's very easy for a fighter's public favour to turn, which can instantly tarnish the product they're working with's image and thus negatively impact its revenue, which in turn can easily lead to the advertising company losing their contract

Say, hypothetically, Liddell's advertising something mainstream; he's in ads on prime time TV, he's on billboards with this product in his hands, he's everywhere. In his next fight, his opponent is seriously hurt and recieves damage from which it's doubtful he'll ever recover, or is even killed (it's flat out naive to think this will never happen in a sanctioned MMA bout). The media backlashes against the sport, just like it does whenever there's a similar tragedy in boxing, Liddell's image is suddenly mud, the ad gets pulled and the people who make the product ask the people in the advertising company what the hell they were thinking putting such a thug's face on their product. The ad firm loses the contract, which could potentially be very damaging to them financially if, like in this hypothetical situation says, it's a mainstream contract. A niche product won't be such a sting, but they'd probably still lose that contract

As for the growth in sports - non-seasonal sports especially - it does not continue unabated. The rate of MMA's growth in the West will not continue at the rate it is now exponentially, or even close.

There comes a point in things like this where a saturation point occurs; where everyone in their target market knows of its existence and when & where they can watch it and everyone that's going to be interested in it is already watching it, and when it comes to MMA, that market's narrower than just 18-34 year old males. When the saturation point occurs, it can often hold for a period of time, keeping the interest there for that audience, but it's very hard for a non-seasonal sport or show to keep that interest up, especially at the current rate of exposure the UFC's going for (PPV every month, plus free events). Of the people that have been reached and are interested, not all of them are going to keep up that rate of interest all year round; there will be a new hot thing, or changes in their lives will lead to them losing touch with it, or they'll just get sick of or bored with it, especially if the current rematch trend continues. Japanese organisations break the year up with Grand Prix series events and big shows for the end of the year, as well as having a lower rate of PPV events, despite their larger market share, which obviously shows to be an effective manner of keeping interest up.

Like it or not, MMA is always going to appeal to a fairly narrow spectrum of society. In the West, as we grow up, we're constantly socialised to dislike violence (it's just so wrong!), many people don't like fighting, especially real fighting (they can handle crappy movie violence), not to mention the fact that it being such a new and - let's face it - complex sport, there's a large amount of basic knowledge that's needed to be instilled in a mass audience. Long time fans or people that train in martial arts can largely understand what's going on with the passing of the guard or how a triangle choke works or how much it sucks to get kicked in the leg, but could you sit down in front of an event with your dad and have him understand what's going on, the way you can with a sport that he grew up watching like football? I know I can't (my dad and I still watch boxing together, but he won't watch MMA - it's either "boring" or he's yelling "Jesus Christ, he's gonna kill him!" This is what MMA has to deal with), thus there's much more work to be done at penetrating the mainstream market than with something else. It's not particularly nice to think about, but these are the realities of the Western market for combat sports. Boxing's a slight exception, purely due to the fact that it's older than dirt and it's easy to pick up what's going on. Give it a generation or so and if MMA's still around, it might be at the level of boxing, but there's a lot that could stop that
The biggest fans for NFL, NBA, Nascar are males. UFC is very "male orientated", their fans love to grab a beer and watch the show. I think the UFC can reach these guys, BUT I think the UFC needs to be smart and focus on tv deals. PPV is great to start with, but mainstream tv deals is where the real money is at.This is true. However, if a big mainstream station picked up an MMA organisation, look for taped events rather than live ones, just in case something really bad goes down. No station wants the stigma of the channel that broadcast a death on live, free TV
Again, I disagree. A lot of people hate pro wrestling because it is fake. They love the slams/athleticism but they hate the "fakeness".

MMA is real, people love realYou seriously need to read the points I'm making before you respond to them. Following on from your point; a lot of people love fake. Fake is safe, fake is fun, fake is something that you can turn your brain off and enjoy. Essentially, advertisers and TV stations can get behind pro wrestling events because there's a much smaller percieved risk in it due to it's nature. It's a largely incorrect assumption; there have been deaths and serious injuries, but proportionally to the amount of ring time pro wrestlers get compared to MMA fighters, the rate they occur's not so bad. There's also the fact that an accidental injury or death in a "sports entertainment" bout would not carry the same kind of stigma that a boxer or MMA fighter getting knocked into a coma would, thus someone with a product advertised in the break of an event (or a sponsor of the event) that a pro wrestler's hurt wouldn't take such a market hit as someone who got hurt in a "real" fight sport

I bring the WWE up because whatever you and I think about it, it is essentially the poster child for how a large non-seasonal event functions in the West. It has years where it's everywhere, it's the hot thing, stars are on chat shows, radio shows, advertising stuff (though still stuff that's directed to its target audience - 18-34 year old males, see the niche?), it gets reality shows, it gets free TV shows, huge PPV buys, PPV rates expand to one or two a month, exposure for its owner (Dana White = Vince Whatshisname; you read it here first, kids!), clothing lines, loads of startup organisations appear and try to cash in, some of whom wind up going under, others are bought out and used for talent farms or just cannibalised for talent, the whole lot... is this sounding like the UFC to you yet? Then, after a couple of years, interest wanes, something else comes along, PPV buys drop, live gates drop, people stop giving a toss about its stars, reality shows ratings drop and get cancelled, the big sponsors go away and word circulates over the internet that they're going to be shutting up shop. This goes on for a few years, during which time some of the established roster goes away, there are some shakeups in the way events are run or presented, a couple of new, marketable stars start coming up and then interest comes back because it's a familiar yet different product.

You watch, this is the way the MMA "boom" will go. There's no way it doesn't. There's still a lot of money to be made from it - the next couple of up-cycles will be absolutely killer - but it just won't be able to crack the market fully. (You think that post's long, imagine it without extra gaps for paragraphs or my beautiful grammar!)

Now - back on topic: there appear to be no interesting MMA rumours today. However, unconfirmed reports suggest that Lorenzo Fertita has recently farted :D

Wigglyman

18-Dec-2006, 01:28 PM

Another Rumour going round was that BJ Penn was dropping to LW adn Coaching on TUF5...well:

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3129&zoneid=2

Sever

18-Dec-2006, 06:44 PM

Another Rumour going round was that BJ Penn was dropping to LW adn Coaching on TUF5...well:

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3129&zoneid=2
That'd be very fun to see. I'm a lifelong Pulver fan, win, lose or draw; he's had a couple of tough losses recently, but he remains a great fighter and an excellent ambassador for the sport. Penn at LW would be cool to see again as well (if he can get his tubby ass down to 155 now) and I'd love to see a rematch with them.
Hopefully both fighters can get a win or two before the finale kicks off

Apotheosis

19-Dec-2006, 04:48 AM

Sever

19-Dec-2006, 06:23 PM

I guess we shall have to agree to disagree Sever, only time will tell who was correct.

What do you say 5 years from now we agree to discuss this again, and see which organization's top fighters are making more money(via advertising, salary etc..)...That is if we are both alive and still remember this.:) (Odds are against it, but who knows?)Yeah why not :D
The tragic thing is that that conversation actually made me briefly consider going back into advertising work (something I swore I'd never do again!)

Rapid

19-Dec-2006, 08:17 PM

Id be extremly surprised if BJ didnt drop back down to lightweight, it is without doubt his natural weight class and he would dominate absolutly everyone in the class and hold the LW title for a long time. I think he'll fight Hughes again before Hughes retires but whether this will be after or before he drops down to 205 i dont know.

pauli

19-Dec-2006, 08:38 PM

clearly, penn should fight hughes at 205.

Sever

19-Dec-2006, 08:47 PM

Rapid

20-Dec-2006, 06:12 PM

Oops, i obviosly meant 155, my bad.

Apotheosis

23-Dec-2006, 10:18 PM

Rumour is Couture will return to fighting if Ortiz beats Liddel. Not sure if it is a rumour, as he said he is absolutely serious about returning if Ortiz wins....

Source (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3162&zoneid=2)

Sever

24-Dec-2006, 07:48 AM

Yeah, I saw that yesterday. Too bad there's such a slim chance of Ortiz winning

Apotheosis

24-Dec-2006, 07:55 AM

Yeah, I saw that yesterday. Too bad there's such a slim chance of Ortiz winning

I'm seriously giving Tito a 50% chance, of course as you well know I tend to pick the loser whenever Chuck is fighting so...

Sever

24-Dec-2006, 10:22 AM

Wigglyman

24-Dec-2006, 01:50 PM

50%? As much as that? How're you thinking he'll do it then?
The only way I can see this not being a carbon copy of their last fight is if Tito scores a lucky punch or manages to get an elbow off that cuts Chuck enough that the doctor stops it.

Yeh a carbon copy...so another eye-poke then to finnish him off.

Keeping Chuck down for five rounds for a decision just doesn't happen, so that really only leaves beating him standing - didn't work last time, I doubt it'll work this time

Actually if it goes into the 3 and beyond, Titio stands a great chance as Chuck's cardio can be suspect and, well we all know about Tito's...as for Randy's comment about coming out of retirement, its probably one of those comment made as a joke and is taken out of context. Shame tho I mean who doesn't like Captain America?

Sever

24-Dec-2006, 02:30 PM

Actually if it goes into the 3 and beyond, Titio stands a great chance as Chuck's cardio can be suspect and, well we all know about Tito's...as for Randy's comment about coming out of retirement, its probably one of those comment made as a joke and is taken out of context. Shame tho I mean who doesn't like Captain America?I'd love to see Randy come back, but it probably was just a joke or something, like you say
Chuck's cardio can be suspect, but it hasn't really shown to be so since the first Randy fight; a fight in which Couture was constantly pressuring Liddell with his patented greco-clinch battering and slams. Tito's never really demonstrated a fondness for that style, and it's an offence that Chuck has worked out the defence for (see Couture II and III and the Horn fight for examples - they tried to get the clinch, they got smacked). Unless Chuck's been sitting on his arse eating doughnuts rather than training, I honestly don't see it going past the second again without Tito getting caught, if it does, I think it'll be because Tito's been cautious, which'll mean that Chuck's still fresh like he was in round 4 in the Horn fight

Liffguard

24-Dec-2006, 10:13 PM

I thought Randy's statement was just a roundabout way of saying that Ortiz didn't stand a chance.

Apotheosis

26-Dec-2006, 04:17 AM

50%? As much as that? How're you thinking he'll do it then?
The only way I can see this not being a carbon copy of their last fight is if Tito scores a lucky punch or manages to get an elbow off that cuts Chuck enough that the doctor stops it. He doesn't have the takedowns to get past Chuck's sprawl and I doubt he'll be able to keep him down if he does get him on the floor, let alone actually finish him (he hasn't finished anyone other than Ken Shamrock in five and a half years and that was by a cut). Keeping Chuck down for five rounds for a decision just doesn't happen, so that really only leaves beating him standing - didn't work last time, I doubt it'll work this time

I honestly think he has a 50% chance, Chuck is vulnerable to someone that stays on the outside and jabs/leg kicks. He loves to sit back and play the "matador" to his opponents "bull".

His hands are almost always down to prevent the takedown which leaves his face wide open to jabs. He likes to set his feet as well, which means he is susceptible to low leg kicks.

As long as Tito doesn't do what he did in the first fight which was allowing himself to be backed into a corner, or what Babalu did which was run after Liddel with windmill punches I think Tito has a shot.

And if Tito can "force" Chuck to attack as opposed to counter, Chuck will be more open to takedowns when moving forward as opposed to his usual solid base.

But like I said, everything I say involving Chuck is usually wrong so I'm not going to bet on anything.

As to Randy, I think he was serious. He said he was, and I think he believes he can beat Tito plus fighters like Randy tend to keep coming back and cannot get enough of the sport.

neryo_tkd

27-Dec-2006, 04:36 PM

there are so many rumours, but it is certain that we won't see a fedor vs mirko rematch at new year's eve :cry: both are still recovering, and with all these expectations, i just hope that when we finally do see this rematch we don't get disappointed.

Linguo

28-Dec-2006, 12:38 AM

isn't fedor fighting Hunt at Shockwave this year?

Also, Cro Cop has been spotted sporting a UFC shirt. Rumors are a buzzing that the big announcement this weekend will be the addition of CroCop to UFC's Heavyweight division.

I wonder if Sylvia can jab his way out of that.

Apotheosis

28-Dec-2006, 01:16 AM

Yea Fedor is supposed to be fighting Hunt but he has a broken toe so he won't be 100%.

It really looked like Mirko is headed to the UFC, Sherdog is reporting that a source close to Eddie Sanchez is telling them that Mirko will be making his UFC debut against him.(Sanchez)

Source (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=6424)

Still not confirmed but everything seems to be pointing towards him heading to the UFC.

neryo_tkd

28-Dec-2006, 01:00 PM

they should finally make up their minds. i want to see some good fights.

Sever

28-Dec-2006, 06:03 PM

It'll be sad if he does go to the UFC - it'd essentially be an admission that he knows he's not able to beat Fedor. Still, if he does go to the UFC, he'll get a belt and secure the legacy of being the first man to get to the top echelons of the three main organisations - something that's going to sound good if he's planning on hanging up the gloves in the near future

Apotheosis

29-Dec-2006, 06:46 AM

Things are really looking bad for Pride, an extablished Croation news outlet(From what I am told) had an article recently in which Sakakibare admits that Pride cannot compete with the UFC as far as money goes.

Source (http://www.vecernji-list.hr/newsroom/sports/more/707083/index.do)

Translation

Sakakibare: "We had a Las Vegas show but we were late with it for at least 10 months. UFC has 600 000 PPV buys and we can't compete with that. Until now our fighters were payed the most but in half a year UFC caught up with us. We currently can't compete with UFC who is capable of offering our fighters 3 to 4 times more money."

Makes you wonder if any other huge names will be moving organizations, perhaps a guy like Shogun who will not be champ until Wandy retires which likely will still be a few years off?(He is only 30)

Either way, I hope Pride or a new organization will rise to rival the UFC as competition keeps a sport healthy and fans always suffer when an organization forms a monopoly.

Linguo

29-Dec-2006, 12:10 PM

Wigglyman

29-Dec-2006, 02:01 PM

Well the IFL is doing pretty well, from what I understand. Their sponsors supposedly have deep pockets, and they are expanding. The company has also gone public, which at least gives us an idea about how well the company is doing, assuming they don't do some creative bookkeeping. As far as finances go, IFL seems to be doing everything right. Unlike the WFA, which spent big bucks on fighters only hardcore fans of MMA would care to watch.

There's also the addition of Elite XC to Showtime, which is actually a pretty big deal for an MMA event. Rumor has it that HBO will pick up the UFC.

It would be a shame if Pride does collapse, but does that open the door for other Japanese MMA events to grow? Like ZST, DEEP, Shooto, or Pancrase?

And K-1 would be No.1 in Japan, however don't be too quick to talk about the demise of PRIDE as they are going to Korea and China with their shows and there is big bucks to be made there.

But back to talking about CroCop, looks like they are going to handle him like they did with A.Silva, have a highlight reel of a fight to set up the Title match...making his fight against Sylvia more marketable to the casual fans.

Also Rampage has officially signed with the UFC, giving him 2 fights. His camp have said that he wants 2 fight before he even considers fighting Chuck again, which is probably a good call considering his inactivity recently.

Sever

29-Dec-2006, 05:47 PM

The thing about the "can't compete with the UFC" finanically quote was that the UFC will occasionally offer huge contracts for one fighter (Royce, for example, got a million for the Hughes fight, Crocop's supposed contract is allegedly 3x what his previous contract was for fights). Pride has higher overheads and on the whole, higher-priced fighter contracts, whereas the UFC's production costs are lower and aside from a handful of nicely paid fighters, many of their cards are done on the cheap as far as fighter payouts go. If you've got lower overheads, you've got more money to throw around on one fighter
Pride can and will come back from this rough year - they've still got Asia (the biggest MMA market) cornered, a Korean video games giant is going to be funnelling money into them. Pride as an entity isn't going anywhere, though I wouldn't be shocked to see DSE and Sakikabara go. They go, the Yakuza blackball goes and TV stations in Japan will be fighting over them like a Frenchman over a garlic clove, much like happened with K-1 a few years back

Apotheosis

29-Dec-2006, 09:06 PM

Well the IFL is doing pretty well, from what I understand. Their sponsors supposedly have deep pockets, and they are expanding. The company has also gone public, which at least gives us an idea about how well the company is doing, assuming they don't do some creative bookkeeping. As far as finances go, IFL seems to be doing everything right. Unlike the WFA, which spent big bucks on fighters only hardcore fans of MMA would care to watch.

There's also the addition of Elite XC to Showtime, which is actually a pretty big deal for an MMA event. Rumor has it that HBO will pick up the UFC.

It would be a shame if Pride does collapse, but does that open the door for other Japanese MMA events to grow? Like ZST, DEEP, Shooto, or Pancrase?

I don't see the IFL as a competitor, the team concept just isn't MMA. Plus the UFC has the U.S market all wrapped up. The UFC is like Kleenex in the U.S, it is MMA.

Elite XC- Terrible organization, it is not even MMA. There is a 15 second rule for the ground which means it is kickboxing not MMA.

Pride can and will come back from this rough year - they've still got Asia (the biggest MMA market) cornered, a Korean video games giant is going to be funnelling money into them. Pride as an entity isn't going anywhere, though I wouldn't be shocked to see DSE and Sakikabara go. They go, the Yakuza blackball goes and TV stations in Japan will be fighting over them like a Frenchman over a garlic clove, much like happened with K-1 a few years back

I hope your right, and maybe it will be for the best. Maybe the new owners will actually have title fights more than once a year.

Sever

29-Dec-2006, 09:58 PM

Elite XC- Terrible organization, it is not even MMA. There is a 15 second rule for the ground which means it is kickboxing not MMA.This is a common misconception. All the "15 second rule" is is putting a number (I believe Elite XC supremo Mark Shaw has since stated it to be "probably nearer 30 seconds" on Sherdog's radio show) to something that is usually at the referrees discretion anyway - standups for inactivity on the ground rather than fights just being on the ground. Most fights that are stalled on the ground get stood up around 30 seconds anyway, so it's not as big a deal as some people are making it sound
I'm actually quite excited about Elite XC - Shaw's got a rep as being a total snake in the boxing world, but he's also very well connected (hence the Showtime deal before even having a show ready to go) and has access to a hell of a lot of money, not to mention the ear of more than a few athletic commissions worldwide. Whether he can apply his boxing savvy to MMA remains to be seen; MMA hasn't really got much in common with boxing from a marketing or promotion standpoint at this point in time, but as far as the US market goes, any solid competition will only help the sport. Monopolies just equal sucky product

Linguo

30-Dec-2006, 01:52 AM

I don't see the IFL as a competitor, the team concept just isn't MMA. Plus the UFC has the U.S market all wrapped up. The UFC is like Kleenex in the U.S, it is MMA.

To be honest, I've always seen "solo" sports as being a team sport as much as an individual one. A fighter is always repping his or her club/school/fight team when stepping into the ring/mat. I mean, fight fans often talk about the importance of this fighter training with MFS or Chute Boxe or ATT. IFL is sort of an extension. I say sort of because some teams dont train together and dont carry that sense of team unity into the ring.

All that aside, the product itself is a solid one. Set aside the team element, and you still get some pretty entertaining fights from young up and coming fighters and veterans of the ring. Not to mention it's free! I wish FSN would give more time to the IFL, but, if the IFL does it right, they might get the air time they deserve.

Elite XC- Terrible organization, it is not even MMA. There is a 15 second rule for the ground which means it is kickboxing not MMA.

Sever covered what I wanted to say. It's up to the ref. 30 seconds of inactivity is just lay n' pray. We've all complained about refs letting fighters sit in top position and do nothing. The rule was just designed to push the action.

The downside to this? It could be like Judo, when refs have no idea what ground work is and stand them up because they dont understand groundfighting.

Apotheosis

30-Dec-2006, 03:14 AM

To be honest, I've always seen "solo" sports as being a team sport as much as an individual one. A fighter is always repping his or her club/school/fight team when stepping into the ring/mat. I mean, fight fans often talk about the importance of this fighter training with MFS or Chute Boxe or ATT. IFL is sort of an extension. I say sort of because some teams dont train together and dont carry that sense of team unity into the ring.

True enough, but the IFL has some sort of team championships and team competitions...A great fighter in the IFL may never be noticed because he belongs to the worst team.

Sever covered what I wanted to say. It's up to the ref. 30 seconds of inactivity is just lay n' pray. We've all complained about refs letting fighters sit in top position and do nothing. The rule was just designed to push the action.

Yep, that was my mistake. I thought it was a 15 second rule no matter what but I am still "scared" that the ref's won't consider improving position as action. and will end up standing everyone up unless there is some GnP going on.

Sever

30-Dec-2006, 05:36 PM

The plot's thickening with the whole Crocop/ UFC thing. The latest word from Sakikabara is here (http://www.boutreview.com/data/news05/061231pride.html) which translates to:
"We'll make an announcement after Otoko Matsuri. I talked to Lorenzo and Frank (Fertitta) today. All I can say now is, don't believe all the rumors, don't buy them as they are. Please look forward to our announcement tomorrow."
This could be just like his "No rematches on NYE" statement, or it could be something else. There are so many possible ways that this whole thing could go at the moment. A couple of lines in that statement, plus the fact that he's talking to the Fertitas mean something, but I won't go into what that could be right now because, frankly, I've had faaarrr too much coffee today and everything in my brain keeps coming back around to conspiracy theories possibly involving the Yakuza and/ or hot Pride ring girls :o

Apotheosis

30-Dec-2006, 06:31 PM

The plot's thickening with the whole Crocop/ UFC thing. The latest word from Sakikabara is here (http://www.boutreview.com/data/news05/061231pride.html) which translates to:

This could be just like his "No rematches on NYE" statement, or it could be something else. There are so many possible ways that this whole thing could go at the moment. A couple of lines in that statement, plus the fact that he's talking to the Fertitas mean something, but I won't go into what that could be right now because, frankly, I've had faaarrr too much coffee today and everything in my brain keeps coming back around to conspiracy theories possibly involving the Yakuza and/ or hot Pride ring girls :o

This is all quite confusing...why would he have to talk to them if Mirko was signing with Pride?

Makes me think that Mirko is not going to sign with Pride, so Sakikabare calls up the UFC to find out if Mirko signed with them.... Maybe the UFC is going to agree to a superfight with Mirko vs Fedor sometime this year?

Don't see why though, that would just give Pride a boost. It would be smarter from a business standpoint to sign Prides stars when they become free agents and watch the opposition crumble and then pick up the pieces(like they did with the WFA).

Sever

30-Dec-2006, 06:44 PM

Realistically, I think all this thing really means is that we still don't really know what's going on and we probably won't until we next see Crocop in a ring or cage. Even if as it stands at the moment, the UFC have a verbal agreement, Pride could still make another offer at the last minute. I've lost count of the amount of times this has happened in boxing or other sports
Yakuza/ Ring Girl Ninja Escapades aside (that idea, by the way, is copyrighted!), company heads don't call each other when negotiating with employees for their services. It doesn't happen. Again, trying to avoid caffeine-induced conspiracy theories etc, all I can really think is that if the two organisation heads are talking to each other, there is finally a concerted effort to make a superfight happen, use Sanchez to establish what a monster Crocop is, then feed him Sylvia in what would be a huge, cross-promotional deal, but again - at the moment, all we really know is that we don't really know anything

Apotheosis

31-Dec-2006, 05:45 AM

Wigglyman

01-Jan-2007, 11:27 PM

Tonight at UFC 66 it was announced that Mirko had joined the UFC and would be fighting against Eddie Sanchez at UFC 67. Couture went on to say that all the heavyweights must be scratching their heads asking what they are getting into, while Rogan repeatedly talked about how great a fighter Mirko is and that he could also go to 205...

Rogan really made it sound like Mirko might get a shot for the 205 belt as well as the heavyweight belt.

From what we know, I am positive Mirko is now a UFC fighter and there will be no Fedor vs Mirko fight unless the UFC signs him as well sometime in the future.(No reason to promote a rival orgs best fighter if that rival is "dying" and you are thriving.)

they truely pushed Rampage, but not really CroCop. Mind you they are probably going to take the A.Silva route to pushing CroCop ie stick him in with people who will try to trade with him only to get KTFO...then use the highlight reel as a way to push him.

He probz could fight at 205, but I think they are prehaps thinking about a Chuck v. CroCop fight, rather than entering him into the division.

Apotheosis

02-Jan-2007, 03:23 AM

I think they are not pushing Rampage vs Chuck so hard because Page only has a 2 fight deal and they will never give him a title shot without a longer contract.

Imagine if he won, and fulfilled his contract, then they have to pay him by the truckload!!

As to Mirko, upon rethinking I believe he is only a "back-up" at LHW. He was brought in primarily to deal with Tim Sylvia who is reviled around the world. But if Page cannot perform up to his potential, they will have an aging champion in Liddell and will need someone who can beat him...Mirko is their man if Page cannot get the job done.

pauli

02-Jan-2007, 04:47 AM

it was my understanding that mirko has said he just can't make it down to 205.

Rapid

02-Jan-2007, 05:23 PM

Whether he claims he can or cannot he could make it down to 205. He is quite light for a heavyweight and although it would probably be a hard weight cut he could do it. He'd probably lose like 10lbs of fat/muscle and then cut the rest by dropping water. I doubt he'll be fighting chuck any time soon to be honest, he'll take the heavyweight title off Tim and probs have a match with Arlowski and or Brandon Vera and he should beat both. Vera is gunna drop to 205 and fight chuck eventually. Id be extremly surprised if Rampage didnt fight chuck again, whether this happens within the current 2 fight contract or whether a new contract is made remains to be seen.

wazzabi

02-Jan-2007, 05:39 PM

they have to give us rampage vs liddell 2. it's something that needs to happen. i remember dana white saying that he believes chuck is the best light heavyweight in the world, and the best way to "prove" it is for him to beat everyone that has defeated him. he already beat couture and horn, and if i'm not mistaken, rampage is the only guy he hasn't had revenge on. also, it could be the ufc's way of saying that they're better than pride, since rampage was an established pride fighter.

Sever

02-Jan-2007, 09:31 PM

Apotheosis

03-Jan-2007, 01:46 AM

also, it could be the ufc's way of saying that they're better than pride, since rampage was an established pride fighter.

Doubt it, Rampage was demolished three times in Pride so they don't really have a basis.

Plus if they were all that concerned about it, why would they bring in a former Pride star to demolish their HW division?

I think they are just waiting for Pride to go under, and are laughing at everyone who says "Pride is way better than the UFC" on their way to the bank.

Rapid

06-Jan-2007, 10:20 PM

Rampage/ Chuck won't happen unless they extend or renew that contract, so we're probably talking at least a year down the line before we see it :cry:
In the wake of the BJ Penn situation a couple of years back, fighters don't get title shots on the last fight on their contracts, hence why the UFC are holding off on Vera's shot until they sort out his negotiations. If a fighter gets his title shot on the last fight on their contract, wins the belt and then gets a better offer, the UFC's without a champion

Very well observed, that makes a whole lot clear to me now and explains why alot of fighters havent been getting title shots when they deserve them. Im sure rampage will sign an extended contract as he knows he'll be getting a title shot and thats exactly what he wants. As well as as much money as he can get..............

Apotheosis

07-Jan-2007, 06:37 PM

Tokyo Sports is reporting that the WWE and Pride are nearing some form of a partnership-

WWE Warrior(s) to Participate in PRIDE's February Event in Las Vegas

PRIDE is poised to form a monster tag team with the world's biggest wrestling organization, the WWE.

Both PRIDE, seeking for expansion into the US market, and WWE, which has an interest in MMA, have similar thoughts. At the end of last November, DSE's President and WWE's President Vince McMahon had a conference in the US.

Sakakibara: "We discussed how we can mutually cooperate with each other"

That news was big enough to immediately go up on WWE's website. It's said that the schedule for the next meeting is decided. There is a reason too. It's to battle against the UFC, an MMA organization that has been growing at reckless speed.

The UFC was in the Top 10 for number of contracts, placing more programs in the rankings than the WWE. Using its abundance of capital, they have assembled fighters from throughout the world. Last year's PRIDE OWGP Mirko Crocop also made a shocking transfer to the UFC.

If the tie-up materializes, a WWE combatant would be dispatched to PRIDE. The likelihood is that the WWE fighter would participate in the Super Heavyweight division (=SH, 125kg+) that will be established this year.

The SH division could start as early as 2.24.07, at the PRIDE33 (Las Vegas) event. There are plans to hold a Monster GP (temporary name) next year. Currently, SH fighters in PRIDE include Mark Hunt and James Thompson. There is not enough fighters.

Sakakibara: "WWE figher appearance? That's also likely. Already, we have been flying around the world looking for yet-to-be-known monsters"

The WWE has fighters suitable for MAA such as the Undertaker, Batista, and Umaga, so it's prepared for a combat mission in PRIDE anytime.

Sakakibara: "This year we will take the offensive"

You can't take your eyes off PRIDE in 2007.

Am I the only one a bit "worried" about this move by Pride?

If your trying to lower the credibility of the sport, hurt your business, and become a joke then this is the move for you...otherwise it is just stupid.

callsignfuzzy

07-Jan-2007, 07:29 PM

Not too happy 'bout this. If the events take place in Japan, I'm not sure how much it would hurt MMA's/Pride's image to the casual US fan. There's the implication of the fights involving American wrestlers to be works. I think WWE fans might be excited about it, and if (when) the current WWE wrestlers get beaten it could open the door for some Pride guys to work in the 'E, if it suits them. I just don't think the 'E has anyone on their roster who could put up a reasonable fight. Of the ones they listed:

'Taker sometimes incorperates some shoot-style holds, and is a legit tough guy, but he's body's been beaten up by the business and he's got nothing near MMA training;

Batista's has no apparent shoot-style training at all, is kinda up there in age (mid-late 30's, I think), and he tends to be injury-prone;

Umaga's the youngest of 'em, but again I haven't heard of any combat sport training, and I'm not sure if his physique will allow for him to compete in a normal Pride match without severely gassing.

The only guys who might be competitive would be either HW or LHW, but even most of them are questionable. Bobby Lashley might be their best bet, with his amature wrestling background. There's also Sylvester Terkay, but he's not competed anywhere NEAR Pride level; Rob Van Dam, who apparently had some kickboxing matches in his youth; Shelton Benjiman and Charlie Haas both wrestled in college;Elijah Burke apparently has a boxing record; I'm pretty sure that Chris Benoit, Dave Finlay, Chavo Guerrero, Dave Taylor, and William Regal have some amature & shoot wrestling skills, but they're all up there in age and haven't gone "live" in years, if ever.

Could have many more negatives than possitives. Known wrestlers will look bad if it's a shoot, or the MMA industry will suffer if it's a work, or even the suspicion of a work. For what? Building new (and foreign) stars for WWE? Giving Mark Hunt a long list of big guys to KO?

Sever

07-Jan-2007, 10:50 PM

Has that Sherdog poster ponied up the link for that supposed article yet? Last time I checked that thread, it was 13 pages with no source - could well be BS and it smells a bit like it
Honestly, the WWE thing, assuming it's true, isn't as bad an idea as some people think if it's implemented correctly. "Implemented correctly" being the key phrase, and that's a dicey phrase to be throwing around if Vince McMahon's involved (his track record with pro wrestling is peerless, but he's ruined a lot of other things), so hopefully they'll just nick his chequebook and get Wandy to stomp his head in so he can't get involved :D
Assuming this is true, a correct implementation of this would be for Pride to nick some of the WWE's bigger stars to make an appearance in their super-heavyweight division (this is where the article's credibility stumbles - I'm not familiar with much of their current roster, but I know that Undertaker's pushing 50 and beaten down from injuries, Batista's 40ish and so roided that he's never getting in a shoot fight on US soil) and have the WWE advertising Pride on their shows. In turn, Pride can give WWE exposure on their Japanese shows. WWE's never really managed to crack Japan, which is a huge pro wrestling market, and Pride helping them out in that manner would work for them. WWE have more money than god and understand the benefits of a good production, not to mention a huge, ready made audience. If the WWE fighters are handled correctly (ie, a wrestler with a reasonably legit background goes in against a can, WWE advertise the hell out of that show, he wins, looks like a tough guy for WWE and the WWE fans buy the PPV to see if he can really fight and in turn, get to see what real fights look like)
Something a lot of hardcore elitist fans will attempt to deny is that pro wrestling and MMA have a big audience crossover in the "casual fan" department and the two styles are far more similar than many recognise, from both a marketing and a historical perspective. I'll be brief on this point, because there's an entire article I could write on this, if not a book, but MMA is essentially pro wrestling's offspring. Pro wrestling at it's inception was very similar to MMA, but the shooters of the 20's (I could be wrong about that date, I'm tired and have no desire to go rooting through books) and their promoters began to realise that they could do more shows and thus make more money if they didn't actually hurt each other so much and the "worked" business evolved from there. Pancrase - the first organisation to make a proper, marketed sport out of MMA was originally a pro wrestling organisation that started doing some shoots and eventually became all-shoot. It also used some of the same "rules" as pro wrestling (no closed fist striking, getting to the ropes breaks a hold) Even today; try rolling with a pro wrestler sometime, especially one that's been around the business a while and/ or has worked in Japan. You'll be very surprised at the kind of game they've got. As for the marketing style, that's obvious to anyone that watches any MMA; the pre-fight interviews, the "shove-fests" to hype up fights, the production styles, the advertising style, it's all pro wrestling.
The only real difference between the way the two forms are handled - and this is another reason I think this article's bull - is that most pro wrestling promoters - Vince McMahon in particular - don't like working with shoots. They hate not being able to control an outcome since an upset can seriously mess up your plans
Handling it wrongly would be absolutely disasterous for Pride, but if it were to happen, it could be a very big deal. They may lose one or two snobs, but the kind of audience, branding and money WWE could funnel into it would be impossible to ignore

pauli

07-Jan-2007, 10:51 PM

it was my understanding that the undertaker was on the healthier end of things for a pro wrestler, and has some level of interest in mma.

it's pride. japanese judges, japanese refs. there's already some suspension of disbelief in legit fights from time to time. the japanese fans will eat it up, and dana white will play off of it to boost the ufc with american fans, both vs pride and vs wwe.

who knows, maybe they'll just feed them all to genki sudo and everybody wins.

Artikon

08-Jan-2007, 05:52 PM

That news was big enough to immediately go up on WWE's website. It's said that the schedule for the next meeting is decided. There is a reason too. It's to battle against the UFC, an MMA organization that has been growing at reckless speed.
After reading this I went to the WWE website and couldn't find anything relating to this. If anyone else can come up with anything though it may lend another piece of the puzzle so to speak, but for right now I'm a disbeliever.

callsignfuzzy

08-Jan-2007, 08:17 PM

Artikon: I don't frequent WWE's website, but there's a site called "411 Wrestling" that has very credible news and updates. They mentioned that WWE was in talks with Pride, but it was several weeks ago. Right now it looks to me that the Japanese media is taking these meetings and jumping to conclusions. I can't belive WWE would risk Batista or 'Taker's rep by putting them in fights they'd most certainly end up loosing, and I don't think a broken-down Taker or injury-prone, untrained Batista would be foolish enough to jump in the ring on their own accord.

For the record, all, Batista's age seems to constantly have been in question. Different sources seem to disaggree whether he was born in '66 or '69. Either way, he's 40-ish with no training outside of being a bouncer or bodybuilding. That might have been enough for, say, UFC 3 or so, but not against Hunt.

'Taker was born in '65, is simply listed as a "fan" of boxing and MMA. He wears MMA gloves in his current incarnation, and has been known to incorperate the Triangle Choke and various other shoot-style holds in his matches. Still, nothing I've found says he's got any actual training, or even amature wrestling experience.

Apotheosis

08-Jan-2007, 08:39 PM

callsignfuzzy

09-Jan-2007, 02:05 AM

I doubt there's any super-heavyweight competing in Pride that the guys they listed would stand a chance against. Even Sean O'Haire, being younger and actually having some training, would finish off 'Taker or Big Dave without breaking much of a sweat. Butterbean consistantly KO's WWE guys (O'Haire in Pride and Mike "Bart Gunn" Barton in WWE's "Brawl for All"), and Hunt is a former K-1 champion with an iron skull and an improving ground game. Add maybe Aleks E., Bob Sapp, and Fujita and we're talking about some seriously bad dudes, compaired to guys who work matches. I'm convinced the only way they could win would be by a) work, which would only hurt Pride's/MMA's credability or b) lucky punch/surprise sub, which would only bennifit the 'E, if they kept the guy away from the ring; the alternative would end up with the wrestler getting tooled in his next couple of fights, damaging his value to both Pride and WWE.

Apotheosis

09-Jan-2007, 03:48 AM

Aleks won't be in the SHW, nor will Fujita. They are both at least 10 lbs to low, if not more.

Hunt could drop some weight and make the cut, or he may choose to become the dominating champ at SHW and forget about trying to beat Fedor, Nog, and Barnett.

I think a WWE star could beat Giant Silva or Akebono with some training, at least I would hope so.

Apotheosis

10-Jan-2007, 04:08 PM

Huge rumor going around, with Dave Meltzer and Sherdog reporting that Randy Couture is going to announce on "Inside the UFC" that he will be coming out of retirement.

It is rumored that he will be fighting at UFC 68 against Tim Sylvia for the heavyweight title.

Joe Rogan is also letting everyone know that Couture will be making a "Huge Announcement", which kind of lends credibility to this rumor.

I for one think that Couture will NOT be coming back to fight Sylvia, but he may be coming back to fight someone else.....What do they have to gain from having a very popular legend come back to fight Sylvia?

If he loses, his legendary status takes a big hit. If he wins, he has to fight Mirko and will be destroyed which will also hurt his status as a legend...

I think he will be fighting, but not against Sylvia...Maybe an outsider like Kurt Angle?(Wild Guess)

Linguo

10-Jan-2007, 06:53 PM

MMAWeekly has supposedly confirmed that Couture will fight Sylvia

http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3251&zoneid=2

callsignfuzzy

10-Jan-2007, 07:07 PM

Certainly an interesting development. Personally, as much as part of me would LOVE to see how many fights Randy has left in him, I wish that he'd stay retired, both because it keeps his legacy safe, and because, well, he said he wouldn't be back in the octagon! Maybe he saw "Rocky Balboa" over the holidays and got inspired? :D

On a slightly related note, he participated in the latest season of Spike TV's "Pros vs Joes", along with Roy Jones, Jr. I think they've already stopped filming it, 'cause they were showing clips of both Randy and Roy fighting the Joes in the ads.

He's also got a book coming out! Sometime in late spring or early summer, I think, from my latest Amazon.com "window shopping" trip. BJ Penn also has an MMA book coming out. Both books are instructional, I think, but I'd imagine there's some good stories, too.

Apotheosis

10-Jan-2007, 07:46 PM

Certainly an interesting development. Personally, as much as part of me would LOVE to see how many fights Randy has left in him, I wish that he'd stay retired, both because it keeps his legacy safe, and because, well, he said he wouldn't be back in the octagon!

The part about his legacy is exactly why I believe that his fight will be a one time deal.

I do not think he will step in the ring with Sylvia, even if he wins and gets the belt he is going to lose overall when Mirko kicks his head in. Randy is smart, he knows Mirko has better striking than Chuck and just as good if not better takedown defense so he surely knows that fighting Mirko is almost certainly going to mean a devastating loss. And if he loses, he will take a huge blow to his legacy by losing to a guy hated by 95% of the fans.

That's why I think this is a "Mega-Fight" where Randy will come out of retirement to fight a huge name in a one time deal. Maybe I am just being silly talking about Angle, but it just makes no sense to me for Randy to fight Sylvia.

Linguo

12-Jan-2007, 12:54 PM

Looks like its official. Randy is fighting Sylvia in March.

Apotheosis

14-Jan-2007, 09:37 PM

Yup he announced he signed a 4 fight/2 year contract with his first fight coming against Sylvia.

I guess I was wrong, I forgot how much sway a few millions of dollars has on people.

Wigglyman

15-Jan-2007, 07:49 PM

Yup he announced he signed a 4 fight/2 year contract with his first fight coming against Sylvia.

I guess I was wrong, I forgot how much sway a few millions of dollars has on people.

Thi$ fight only make$ $ence for one rea$on.......

pauli

15-Jan-2007, 08:12 PM

normally i would agree with you, but in this case, i think fighting sylvia really is primarily an act of sympathy for the fans.

Apotheosis

16-Jan-2007, 12:08 AM

Huge rumor going around that the UFC has purchased Pride, big enough that Dana White actually posted on one of the MMA forums to deny the rumor which of course only fuels the fire... Out of all the millions of MMA rumors, he logs on to deny this one?

Sever

16-Jan-2007, 06:47 PM

Out of all the millions of MMA rumors, he logs on to deny this one?He probably did that to stop half the MMA forum members of the world cramming the UFC email inbox asking if it was true :D It's not the first time White's been on the UG; back in the pre-TUF days, he was on there pretty regularly. He's gone on to publicly slag off fighters like a true professional (Pulver, Frank Shamrock, Frank Mir most recently), decry rumours like the UFC was selling up, Tito Ortiz going to Pride and a bunch of others and sometimes just to discuss MMA. The offshoot threads ("Zuffa Bought Jesus Christ," "Zuffa Bought my Hotrod" etc) there were quite amusing though
I really hope the UFC don't buy Pride and I'm 99% sure the rumour is BS - there's very little upside to the UFC splashing out that kind of money on Pride. Aside from the brand and company itself, unless you want to shut up shop (not the brightest idea considering the brand strength), you've then got running costs, fighter contracts, production costs, advertising and a whole lot of other crap that adds up. Counting the same things for the UFC and WEC, factoring in that Pride's Japan based (exchange rates can be a bitch, not to mention the distance would require setting up a Japan branch of Zuffa) we're talking a HELL of a lot of money here, far more than can be considered sensible at this stage of the game. This is not to mention the fact that it's not overly likely that DSE would actually be willing to sell to an American business. It'd almost certainly be bad for Pride's revenue if it became American and it'd be absolutely awful for the sport. No one with half a brain wants there to be a monopoly; not the fighters, not the fans and most likely none of the organisations either. Competition is the heart of business
Zuffa are going to find out how hard it is "owning" your competition as it is, now they're going to be trying to run the WEC as a separate, competitive entity, they're not gonna be trying to do the same thing with another, much larger organisation on the other side of the planet at the same time. Maybe a few years down the line if the WEC thing pans out and business stays good, they'd have a go, but to try and run that many competing organisations in this way would just be dumb. I could maybe see them trying to buy a stake in Pride to get some revenue from their Japanese shows and to have no excuses over "dream matches" but not outright buying the company, it'd just be a disaster

Apotheosis

16-Jan-2007, 07:08 PM

I agree, I think it would be a poor business move.

Having said that, the UFC still might do it. I really would not be shocked to see them buy Pride, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them ignore Pride either.

Sever

16-Jan-2007, 07:22 PM

I'd like to think they've got smarter business advisers than that. They'll probably keep calling it "Japan" for the rest of their lives

Sever

02-Feb-2007, 05:52 PM

The latest bit of speculation is that Pride USA president Ed Fishman is allegedly in negotiations to buy Pride outright

Source (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3371&zoneid=2)

Ed Fishman is a revolutionary in the modern gaming industry. Can he do the same for modern day mixed martial arts? Struggling to remain competitive, Fishman is looking to lead the resurgence of the Pride Fighting Championships.

The president of Pride USA, Fishman is currently in negotiations to purchase Pride FC outright. Sources indicate that he is no longer interested in being a non-controlling investor in the promotion, but wants to own and direct the worldwide operations of the company.

Mixed martial arts is emerging as one of the fastest growing sports and entertainment properties in the world, but the longtime Japanese promotion has struggled recently with the loss of their television contract in Japan. It is believed that Fishman wants to take control so that he can lead the promotion out of its downturn. Apparently, there are already several international sponsorship deals, as well as major new television deals already in the works and close to being finalized.

If the deal does go through, in addition to continuing Pride’s presence in Japan and expanding in the United States, the promotion would likely move to include events in England, South Korea, and Macau (a special administrative region of China).

At this point, there are ongoing negotiations, but nothing has been finalized. Sources close to the situation are confident that Fishman will get the deal done and move forward with his plans to re-establish Pride as the global leader in the industry.

Those same sources indicated that the Ultimate Fighting Championship made an offer to purchase Pride, but their offer was declined.The last line is what makes me think this is wrong. MMAWeekly's gone right downhill since Ryan Bennett passed away (a few months back they cited an overheard conversation on a plane as a source, for Christ's sake!), but assuming their source isn't an overheard conversation in a supermaket or something and negotiations are taking place, it's not the worst suggestion in the world.
Whether DSE would sell to an American is another matter, but the man's got a lot of money, has shown to be a good businessman and is seriously well connected in Vegas. Stateside, he couldn't do a worse job than current Pride US control team (I don't know what Jerry Millen's position is off the top of my head, but he's the guy who runs things in America and doesn't seem to be very good at marketing or keeping commentators). That said, Fishman would have to either relocate to Japan or have a Japanese branch of his company to effectively run Pride Japan. This could work, this could suck

Apotheosis

05-Mar-2007, 11:24 PM

Ed Fishman is now reportedly considering a lawsuit against Pride...

Pride has also canceled their April show in the U.S

Source (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3536&zoneid=13)

UFC 68 also reportedly sold 19,000 tickets, with 5,000 people at the weigh ins...

Apparently it broke all the records for indoor sporting events in Ohio, and the attendance record for North American MMA.

Source (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3534&zoneid=13)

Tito vs Dana has been approved, with members of the athletic commission stating they think Dana is the better boxer.

Source (http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nevada/2007/mar/05/030510912.html)

Pitfighter

22-Mar-2007, 03:01 AM

First and foremost all of our predictions on Couture against Silva are moot cuz Couture won! Predictions on Cro-cop devastating Couture are likely but after seeing Couture's win over Silva (an underrated "CHAMP") I will make no predictions on a Couture v. Cro-cop fight which seems inevitable now.

Regarding talk of UFC buying out Pride I'm really shocked. Just a year ago I remember Pride fans regularly dissing UFC fans for not recognizing Pride's hold on top tier fighters or the fact that Pride was the #1 MMA venue. Now look! Pride is hangin on the ropes. Silva's lost twice and his belt, Fedor's fighting for other venue's like Bodog, Sakuraba is signed with K-1, Rampage left for the WFA and is now fighting for the UFC (Pride's archenemy).

What a crazy world! I know some diehard Pride fans will hate what I gotta say but... I think the UFC has already got its tentacles wrapped around Pride. Businesswise it has the money but on another note I honestly think Dana White cares about MMA. If he can convey this properly to the owner of Pride well he might close the sale. Cuz really the only barrier I see to Pride selling out to UFC is that Pride doesn't wanna lose face selling to it's arch rival.

If this is the case, and I think it is or will soon be, I hope the UFC doesn't eliminate the Pride brand. I love Pride's rules, (as I stated before I wish all of MMA had a mix of Pride and UFC's rules). I love Pride's refereeing (way more consistent than UFC's IMO). And perhaps more importantly Pride is a recognizable brand readlily availabel for a growing Asian\Global market, therefore more growth potential moneywise.

Patrick_baji

23-Mar-2007, 11:34 AM

Whatever happened to Tyson fighting some pride fighter in a boxing rules match at last years new years eve event?

Apotheosis

23-Mar-2007, 04:00 PM

Not sure...it was probably just a publicity stunt or Pride messed it up like they tend to do.

Gufbal1981

23-Mar-2007, 06:14 PM

What happened to the Joe Rogan and Wesley Snipes thing?

Oversoul

23-Mar-2007, 07:41 PM

Wesley Snipes never had any intention to fight Joe Rogan.

Stevebjj

23-Mar-2007, 07:47 PM

Whatever happened to Tyson fighting some pride fighter in a boxing rules match at last years new years eve event?If I remember right, Tyson, as a convicted felon, wasn't allowed into the country.

And regarding Rogan... is that dude on the juice or what? Damn... he's so big now, it looks like he can hardly breathe.

Apotheosis

23-Mar-2007, 08:15 PM

If I remember right, Tyson, as a convicted felon, wasn't allowed into the country.

That was for K-1 when they wanted him to fight Sapp...Pride was reportedly going to have the fight take place in Macau, China.

And regarding Rogan... is that dude on the juice or what? Damn... he's so big now, it looks like he can hardly breathe.

No idea if he juices, it could simply be a result of him working out a lot as he really loves MMA and fighting...add that to a ton of money to hire the best trainers and nutritionists and anyone could be ripped.

He would totally destroy Snipes though...would be very short.

Patrick_baji

24-Mar-2007, 02:40 AM

awww I really wanted to see Tyson vs Sapp :(

Apotheosis

29-Mar-2007, 06:04 PM

Cage Rage apparently has a tv deal...no idea what channel though, they say the April 21st show will definitely be on tv for the April 21st show

Source (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=3685&zoneid=2)

Apotheosis

06-Apr-2007, 07:25 PM

Rumor has Big Nog signing with the UFC(or "transferring"?)..he was sitting at ringside with Dana White and while some expected an announcement last night others are saying it will happen at the PPV tomorrow...

Very interesting since some other rumors have Big Nog 80% blind in one eye, I hope this proves that his eyes are fine...

wazzabi

06-Apr-2007, 09:32 PM

i'd love to see big nog tool those muppets in the ufc heavyweight division, just like crocop will. this might mean we get a crocop vs big nog rematch :D

Oversoul

06-Apr-2007, 09:48 PM

Very interesting since some other rumors have Big Nog 80% blind in one eye, I hope this proves that his eyes are fine...

Sadly, it's true.

Source: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/story/2007/3/15/111511/826

Sever

06-Apr-2007, 09:56 PM

Sadly, it's true.

Source: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/story/2007/3/15/111511/826That's not necessarily true since the source in that link, by its own admission, isn't from a rock-solid foundation
That said, if it's even remotely true, the Crocop/ Nog rematch may still happen, but it sure as hell won't be in a US sanctioned event. If Noguiera's eyesight's impaired in any serious way, the UFC won't let him within a mile of a US-based sanctioning body - more than ever since the Fertitas now own Pride. If an SAC deny him a licence in the US, he's also "expected" to not fight anywhere else

Apotheosis

07-Apr-2007, 01:27 AM

That's not necessarily true since the source in that link, by its own admission, isn't from a rock-solid foundation
That said, if it's even remotely true, the Crocop/ Nog rematch may still happen, but it sure as hell won't be in a US sanctioned event. If Noguiera's eyesight's impaired in any serious way, the UFC won't let him within a mile of a US-based sanctioning body - more than ever since the Fertitas now own Pride. If an SAC deny him a licence in the US, he's also "expected" to not fight anywhere else

Which is exactly why I view him being with Dana as a good sign....it really seems like he is going to be joining the UFC(probably at 69) and surely Dana would have made him pass a physical to make sure he isn't blind especially with his past eye problems

I cannot honestly think of another real reason he would be hanging out with Dana...

Sever

28-Apr-2007, 03:43 PM

Word from the Wrestling Observer newsletter is that the K-1/ EXC/ Strikeforce/ Cage Rage/ Just-about-anyone-else-that's-not-owned-by-the-Fertita's alliance have scored Pride HW's Josh Barnett and Sergei Kharitonov and the two will be facing off at the LA Coliseum show. According to Meltzer (the newsletter's writer), K-1 submitted the following card to the CSAC for their approval

PPV Card
Brock Lesnar vs. Chong Man Hoi
Royce Gracie vs. Kazushi Sakuraba
Johnnie Morton vs. Dos Caras Jr.
Josh Barnett vs. Sergei Kharitonov
Mighty Mo vs. Choi Mu Bae
Caol Uno vs. Josh Thompson
Hideo Tokoro vs. Brad Pickett
Javier Vazquez vs. Kazuyuki Miyata

Showtime Card
Jake Shields vs. Ido Pariente
Gina Carano vs. TBA

It's a great pair of signings for this association if it's true but a serious blow to Pride's already decimated HW division. Barnett has complained about the unified rules already and has little love for the UFC, and Sergei doesn't go by the nickname "The Russian Mercenary" for nothing; that boy will fight for whoever pays him
That said, the supposed Royce/ Saku rematch makes me think that there's something fishy about this since Saku appeared at the last Pride event, but it'd be great to see those two fight again

Linguo

28-Apr-2007, 05:14 PM

Barnett complains about unified rules, but is still willing to fight in California under those rules, with maybe the absence of elbows?

He doesn't hate the unified rules. He hates the UFC.

neryo_tkd

28-Apr-2007, 05:22 PM

hmm, i'd love to see the gracie and the barnett fights.

Sever

28-Apr-2007, 05:25 PM

Barnett complains about unified rules, but is still willing to fight in California under those rules, with maybe the absence of elbows?

He doesn't hate the unified rules. He hates the UFC.The EXC/ K-1 rules don't use elbows so they're not exactly the same, but your point's fair. The context in which he complained about the unified rules was that he didn't like the way that they were being installed in the place of Pride's previous ruleset that he considered superior. I have to say, I agree with him. I just added that comment to provide a bit of back-story that adds credence to this rumour - he was the most vocal of the Pride fighters opposing the changes. I'm not shocked that he may have looked around for other offers.
While he may be fighting occasionally in America, assuming this is true, I'd imagine much of his work will be done in Japan under the K-1 Heroes banner where the ruleset is similar to Pride's old one (though it doesn't allow stomps)

Apotheosis

28-Apr-2007, 08:45 PM

Very interesting, seems like Barnett really has a dislike for the UFC and wishes to stay away from them

Apotheosis

05-May-2007, 03:57 AM

BigRed389

05-May-2007, 05:39 AM

So Sherk is now reportedly going to be ringside with Dana and the Ferttita brothers at the Mayweather-Hoya fight...

Even though on Beatdown he said he wouldn't be watching the fight on tv and gave all the proper respect to Floyd...

I hope Dana doesn't pull something really dumb

Source (http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slug=ki-weighin050407&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Boxing's going pro wrestling style.

Odds are, de la Hoya will lose. But Oscar's been neutral on the whole MMA thing, unlike Floyd.

I say that at some point, Oscar will look like he's in serious trouble.

Dana will then order Sherk to step into the ring WWE style, catch Floyd in a takedown, and Oscar will pound Floyd out for the TKO.

Oscar wins, Sherk looks like the man, Floyd gets embarassed, and the fans are pleased. :D

Apotheosis

05-May-2007, 07:59 PM

Ha!!

I have to admit I went through a similar scenario in my head...

Oscar has actually been pretty positive towards MMA, trained with Diego and when asked about it he had nothing but good things to say

Apotheosis

10-May-2007, 03:53 AM

So the UFC is going to make UFC 72 a PPV and not free on Spike...

With such a great card, who can blame them?

Rich Franklin vs. Yushin Okami
Forrest Griffin vs. Hector Ramirez[1]
Tyson Griffin vs. Clay Guida[3]
Jason MacDonald vs. Rory Singer[3]
Scott Smith vs. Ed Herman[4]

If you haven't noticed, I think paying $40 for this card it just stupid....in fact paying $10 is ridiculous.

In other news, IBF Welterweight Champion Kermit Cintron(27-1) has accepted Dana's challenge since Floyd won't...

He apparently has a good college wrestling background, so he likely has a much better chance than Floyd would...

Will be interesting to see/hear Dana's comments

Oversoul

10-May-2007, 06:25 AM

Will be interesting to see/hear Dana's comments

Interesting, huh? I find that I think of other adjectives in reference to Dana White's comments on just about anything...

callsignfuzzy

24-May-2007, 01:04 AM

Source (http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news;_ylt=AsMMlxWW0sxpoxA60WkyViSUxLYF?slug=ki-choilicense052207&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

According to Yahoo Sports, Hong Man Choi was denied a fight licence.

Apotheosis

24-May-2007, 04:05 AM

Yup...pretty big blow to FEG especially since the CSAC has state that FEG hasn't even gotten a license for the event yet and as of a few days ago only 3 of their fighters had been approved to fight.

A big rumor has Shogun coming to the UFC especially with Dana saying he has a "big announcement" at UFC 71....rumor has him fighting at the so far poor UFC 72

Another big piece of news is the report that multiple Pride fighters are filing a class action suit against Pride

Source (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=4007&zoneid=2)

Apotheosis

24-May-2007, 06:12 AM

I forgot to mention the UFC is getting a lot of press lately, it is on the front page of Sports Illustrated and Chuck is on the front page of ESPN The Magazine with Couture coming up on the cover of a future Sports Illustrated.

Then you have Chuck appearing on Jim Rome Is Burning, UFC being discussed on Around the Horn and PTI all show it in a fairly good light...For the foreigners those are pretty highly rated daily tv shows on ESPN.

Then you have UFC 71 weigh ins being shown live on ESPN News...

A ton of great press this week

Sever

24-May-2007, 05:51 PM

The Pride LWGP that was rescheduled for July has either been put back again or cancelled indefinitely according to Fightopinion (http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/05/23/wednesday-notes-the-k-1-dynamite-titanic/)
The Fertitas seem to be hell bent on wrecking their new acquisition

Apotheosis

24-May-2007, 06:49 PM

Definitely not a "smooth" acquisition..

BigRed389

25-May-2007, 01:50 AM

To be fair, it's probably a matter of changing up how business is done.

I doubt they invested that much just to run it into the ground...that'd be pretty stupid and they'd be giving up the Asian market to K-1 altogether.

Apotheosis

05-Jun-2007, 04:44 PM

The latest news has Marcus "Maximus" Aurelio signing with the UFC...

It really appears like the UFC is taking all the Pride fighters they want and leaving Pride as a skeleton.

Apotheosis

09-Jun-2007, 06:06 PM

Rumor has Mach Sakurai vs Diego Sanchez at UFC 74

Really looks like Pride is dead

Oversoul

09-Jun-2007, 06:33 PM

I've already said it, but...

So yeah, RIP PRIDE Fighting Championships 1997-2007. You will be missed.

wazzabi

09-Jun-2007, 09:17 PM

callsignfuzzy

10-Jun-2007, 12:17 AM

Being a pro-wrestling fan, stuff like this makes it easy to draw the analogy to when Vince McMahon bought out WCW. Originally there was some talk of keeping the two companies separate, but very few of WCW's "big stars" were brought over at the beggining, and then they kept burrying the guys they had. After a few short weeks, nobody took the WCW faction seriously. Looks like the same thing is happening to Pride. Pride, as a company, has very few of their top guys, the faces of Pride, still with the company. While I wouldn't mind a tallent exchange, I don't agree with putting all your tallented eggs in one North American basket.

Apotheosis

10-Jun-2007, 03:37 AM

Oversoul

10-Jun-2007, 06:31 AM

the fertittas are making a huge mistake by stripping PRIDE to the bone. i think it actually sells more to have the rivalrly between the 2 organizations, with the world series fight every year. it seems like they've given up on the world series event they've been so excited to share. is it really that hard to have PRIDE run the same way it used to be?

I think Dana White said something along the lines of PRIDE being a mess and not worth the effort to reconstruct. Also, there are a lot of contract disputes with the fighters.

callsignfuzzy

11-Jun-2007, 03:42 AM

This isn't a talent exchange so much as the UFC taking what they want and leaving the remains of Pride to die.

Riiiight... which is why I said I'd be in favor of one, and not of what's currently happening. It's almost akin to piracy.

Apotheosis

15-Jun-2007, 04:12 AM

HUGE NEWS...

Royce Gracie tested positive for Nandrolone(steroid) and has been suspended until May 30, 2008.

Source (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=7908)

Morton also tested positive for a very high T/E ratio, the standard is 6 and he tested for 83.9(just a tad high there)

Source (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=7893)

Sever

18-Jun-2007, 10:03 PM

Either the UFC aren't quite sure what date April Fools Day is, or they've created the most pointless fight ever
The Fight Network (http://www.thefightnetwork.com/news_detail.php?nid=4088) is reporting that at UFC75 in London, Mike Bisping will be fighting Ken Shamrock. There really is no upside to this fight for Bisping: he wins, he beat up a past-it legend who got destroyed by Tito three times and came out of retirement for a paycheque, he loses, he's screwed. Maybe the UFC want Bisping to have an easier fight in the UK than he did last time against Elvis Sinosec

Apotheosis

18-Jun-2007, 11:04 PM

No idea what the UFC is thinking but in that fight, I give the edge to Shamrock.

In other news, Fedor is rumored to be close to signing with the sticking point being Combat Sambo.

He wants to be able to do it in Russia, the UFC says no. Source is Beatdown(Sherdog)

tekkengod

18-Jun-2007, 11:23 PM

whos mirko fighting?

Apotheosis

19-Jun-2007, 01:39 AM

Rumor is Cheick Kongo

"Source" (http://ufcmania.com/2007/06/10/ufc-75-mirko-cro-cop-vs-cheick-kongo/)

Apotheosis

22-Jun-2007, 05:03 AM

Sokoudjou has reportedly agreed to a 4 fight deal with EliteXC (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8027)

Fedor apparently has a verbal agreement with the UFC

Russian Source (http://fedor.bel.ru/forum2/index.php?showtopic=1714)

"...Fedor's manager and his lawyers offered some changes to the contract offered by Dana, and the chenges were accepted. So, verbal agreement is reached. They plan a 2 year contract for 6-8 fights with top fighters...."

No idea how credible this is as I cannot speak the language nor do I know the source but it sounds good and that is good enough for me

Oversoul

22-Jun-2007, 06:41 AM

I haven't been following EliteXC, primarily because they spell their name with an "X" and I hate that. But they do seem to be doing things right and their first card was great from what I saw...

Sever

30-Jun-2007, 10:36 PM

The much-maligned Shamrock/ Bisping fight appears to be off since the UFC have sacked Shamrock after his getting involved with the IFL. Rumour is, he'll sign with EXC/ Strikeforce and isn't opposed to fighting Frank. Source (http://thefightnetwork.com/news_detail.php?nid=4179))

Apotheosis

01-Jul-2007, 03:04 PM

I hope he can beat Frank, I am tired of him.

If he gets matched up with Sokoudjou, he is gonna be killed.

Apotheosis

04-Jul-2007, 04:37 PM

Diego Sanchez vs BJ Penn at UFC 74

Source (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8155)

Should be a good fight, we will see if BJ can match the cardio of Diego

spirez

04-Jul-2007, 05:56 PM

Diego Sanchez vs BJ Penn at UFC 74

Source (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8155)

Should be a good fight, we will see if BJ can match the cardio of Diego

Disappointed about that, the last rumour i heard was that he would be fighting Franca or Sherk for the LW title.

I was watching the build-up to the TUF 5 finale and it seems BJ has really stepped up his cardio. I think he has a live-in coach at the moment too. If that's the case Diego is in trouble as he won't hang with BJ on the ground and doesn't like to get hit. Seems a little harsh on Sanchez tbh as he's coming off a loss.

Sever

04-Jul-2007, 09:01 PM

Oh, Sanchez is going to be so out of his depth in this one, especially if BJ hits the treadmill. I can't wait :D
I'll pick it now - Penn by absolutely anything he wants. There's just no part of the game Sanchez has an edge in except maybe cardio and I'm not sure it'll last long enough for that to be a factor

Apotheosis

05-Jul-2007, 03:31 PM

Sherdog is now reporting that the BJ camp is denying the rumor of him vs Diego...

Bummer

wazzabi

06-Jul-2007, 02:31 AM

what happened to diego vs sakurai? did the deal turn sour? it was almost confirmed a couple weeks ago. then it disappeared last minute.

Apotheosis

06-Jul-2007, 03:19 AM

what happened to diego vs sakurai? did the deal turn sour? it was almost confirmed a couple weeks ago. then it disappeared last minute.

It may still be on since BJ's camp is saying the fight vs Diego is just a rumor

Apotheosis

07-Jul-2007, 02:59 PM

August 25th at UFC 74, Marcus Aurelio will be making his UFC debut against Clay Guida.

Should be great

Source (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8186)

Apotheosis

14-Jul-2007, 10:55 AM

UFC 76 will see Lyoto vs Shogun and Diego vs Fitch

Also rumored was Wanderlei vs Chuck, however Dana has recently stated that Wandy backed out of the fight and that he doubts it will ever happen...

Which is just crap since we all know Wandy doesn't back out of anything, he countered Dana by saying he was given 2 dates to choose rom and he chose November instead of September since he plans on moving to the U.S and needs some time to prepare for the fighter after he moves.

Rumor now has Chuck vs Jardine at UFC 76

Also rumored, Sokoudjou who was reportedly going to sign with Elite XC for 200k per fight has been offered a better contract by K-1 at the last minute and will be signing with them.

K-1 is also reportedly signing Gomi...

Makes you wonder why the UFC bought Pride if they were just going to let the fighters go anywhere they want.

Source (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8259)

Source 2 (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8262)

Source3 (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=8260)

Apotheosis

15-Jul-2007, 11:17 PM

Rumor has SpikeTv paying upwards of 100 million for a new deal with the UFC

Source for Spike deal (http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2007/07/15/spike-to-pay-100-million-to-keep-ufc/)

http://www.mmascoops.com/baba.jpg

Babalu was arrested and chaged wih Battery and trespassing after spitting on a bouncer at the WFC event in Florida.

Apotheosis

16-Jul-2007, 09:35 PM

Even though I think the thread may be dead....

UFC 75 will be on SpikeTV....Rampage vs Henderson, Kongo vs Mirko and Hammil vs Bisping are the highlights.

It won't be live but it will air on the same day

Source:CNNMoney (http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYM11516072007-1.htm)

Gufbal1981

16-Jul-2007, 09:37 PM

Apotheosis

17-Jul-2007, 03:34 AM

It's not dead...you're just beating me to all the news

I just check the MMA sites when I wake up...I just cannot stay away