UFC 66 - Liddell Vs Ortiz 2

[spirez]

So, it's over a month away and that month can't come round fast enough! What do people think of the current fight card?

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=EventDetail.fightCard&eid=326

Apart from the main event, i'm looking forward to seeing Forrest Griffin in action again. Also looking forward to MacDonald Vs Leben. I think we're yet to see Leben's full potential, although i can't see him hanging with Franklin or Silva any time soon. Jason MacDonald looked pretty good against Ed Herman, could be a classic striker vs grappler match?

And finally we get to see Bisping in his UFC debut! Hopefully anyway, i want to see him move up in this division.

[Sever]

Anthony Perosh Vs. Christian Wellisch - potentially a decent heavyweight matchup. Both guys like to throw, but it could well end up with them both gassed by the end of the first round and making it a snoozefest

Carmelo Marrero Vs. Gabriel Gonzaga - you mean I have to watch Gonzaga AGAIN?! He's half responsible for the most boring fight I've seen in years (with Kevin Jordan), I really hope it doesn't turn out like that again

Tony DeSouza Vs. Thiago Alves - again, it's got potential, both guys are up and comers at 170 and now's the time for the UFC to shake up their division

Eric Schafer Vs. Michael Bisping - a good first official matchup for Bisping; Schafer's no can and could potentially sub him, but Bisping will probably take it

Jason MacDonald Vs. Chris Leben - me no care

Andrei Arlovski Vs. Marcio Cruz - Arlovski by smashing Cruz's face. Cruz is amazing on the ground, but he's not got the takedowns to get Arlovski there and his standup's abominable

Keith Jardine Vs. Forrest Griffin - one of the better TUF matchups they can make. Neither fighter's A class, but they're both pretty entertaining

Chuck Liddell Vs. Tito Ortiz - you won't be able to tell the difference between this fight and the last one (though maybe sans-eyepoke)

Again, on paper, it's not a great card. I'd personally like to see the UFC put on fewer shows and get more good fighters on them than more cards with fewer names. I'm also not thrilled about it being yet another rematch in the main event, especially when it's one that's probably not going to be that competitive

[duderanch182]

Liddel vs Ortiz - I think everyone thinks of the first match to much and I reckon Tito will do better but I still see Liddel winning it but I think it will be interesting. Liddel by knockout as usual

Griffin vs Jardine - This could be a good fight and I put my money on Forest as I think he is pretty good but I think he should watch out for Jardines leg kicks. Griffin by decision

Bisping vs Schafer - well the brit is finally in ther octagon and can't wait, I reckon he will win in the first round by knock out.

Leben vs Mcdonald - I like Leben and hope he does well and we will now see if his grappling is any good at the moment. I give it a decision to Leben.

Arlovski vs cruz - I like Arlovski and want him to win with style. Arlovski by knockout in the first round.

Don't know the other fighters but I do remember the Gonzaga vs Jordan as that was one of the worst fights of all time and remember Rich Franklin made a comment about how boring the fight was.

[wazzabi]

anybody know if pride shockwave will be on pay per view in north america? or would it strictly be to japan? it's the day after ufc 66 for those of you that don't know. i'm planning to watch both :D

[Apotheosis]

It will be on PPV like always as far as I know.

Might as well pick the fights, although i will most likely getting the Shockwave Card from Pride as opposed to this one.

Anthony Perosh Vs. Christian Wellisch - Heh, will go with Perosh

Carmelo Marrero Vs. Gabriel Gonzaga - Marrero

Tony DeSouza Vs. Thiago Alves - Good fight, will go with DeSouza

Eric Schafer Vs. Michael Bisping - Bisping, think he will rapidly get in the top 5 of his divison in the UFC.

Jason MacDonald Vs. Chris Leben - MacDonald

Andrei Arlovski Vs. Marcio Cruz - Arlovski

Keith Jardine Vs. Forrest Griffin - Jardine, he just strikes me as the better fighter

Chuck Liddell Vs. Tito Ortiz - Surprise but I am picking Tito to win.

[Rapid]

Jardine vs Griffin should be a great fight, its gunna be very close but i gotta give it to forrest as his striking seems to have improved quite alot recently. Would like to see Leben win, should be another close fight and im guna go with Leben. Chuck vs Tito should be pretty good, Tito's not being given much of a chance and i think he's gunna surprise alot of people. Not necesarily by winning but by hanging in their with Chuck in the striking and maybe taking him down.

[wazzabi]

i wanna see arlovski fight again. it's been a while.

[Wigglyman]

To me this is UFC 66: Interesting.

The interesting points are:

Tito v. Chuck...has Tito improved enough to take him down?

Jardine Vs. Forrest...Forrest is always interesting to watch, ahrd to describe why tho!

Andrei Arlovski Vs. Marcio Cruz...WIll the Pitbull recover from loosing to Sylvia twice and be back to his best?

Jason MacDonald Vs. Chris Leben...Although I don't rate Leben too much but can McDonald win and will add a 2nd NAMED fighter (not nessicarly good) to his resume?

And of Course how will Bisping do in the real UFC cage?

Can't be bothered to do predictions atm but sure I will be sometime as there is a whole month to go! But Im picking Chuck by cage grab and eye poke...erm...I mean Sprawl'n'Brawl....honest :Angel:

[Rapid]

Grabbing the cage is instinctive though, its hard not to grab out for something when you know your gunna be slammed to the ground, especially when youve seen Matt Hughes smash Carlos Newtons head into the mat knocking him senseless.

[Sever]

Grabbing the cage is instinctive though, its hard not to grab out for something when you know your gunna be slammed to the ground, especially when youve seen Matt Hughes smash Carlos Newtons head into the mat knocking him senseless.It's instinct to knee someone in the face when they're on their knee too (as Bisping found out against Haynes). Not grabbing the cage is a rule, and rules need to be enforced. UFC refs are far too lax on that particular rule for my tastes, to be honest

[Wigglyman]

Grabbing the cage is instinctive though, its hard not to grab out for something when you know your gunna be slammed to the ground, especially when youve seen Matt Hughes smash Carlos Newtons head into the mat knocking him senseless.


Or Matt Hughes passing out, then slamming Newton down then waking up to find out he has won!!

But yeh Sever said it right. I know its instinctive but its still a rule and it isn't enforced enough when it is done constantly.

[Rapid]

Your right they arent strict enough on the rules, it should be 1 warning and then if you do it again you lose a point. What i cant stand is when people win fights due to a rule break, e.g. due to a cut caused by an "accidental" headbutt. Should be a draw.

[Wolf]

Final Fight Card is up (barring injury). Here are my predictions:

Chuck Lidell v Tito Ortiz
Lidell by Round 1 KO

Keith Jardine v Forrest Griffin
Griffin by Unanimous Decision in a BLOODY WAR

Andrei Arlovski v Marcio Cruz
Arlovski by Round 2 KO

Jason MacDonald v Chris Leben
MacDonald by Round 2 Submission

Eric Schafer v Michael Bisping
Bisping by Round 1 KO (hopefully a flying knee!)

Tony DeSouza v Thiago Alves
DeSouza by Round 2 Submission

Carmelo Marrero v Gabriel Gonzaga
Marrero by Round 2 TKO via GnP

Yushin Okami v Rory Singer
Singer by Unanimous Decision

Anthony Perosh v Christian Wellisch
Wellisch by Round 2 KO

[Wigglyman]

Anyone picking Tito here?

After re-watching Forrest/Tito Im going for a NO!

[fire cobra]

Not me,i think tito will get kod early :)

[Rapid]

Tito is gunna surprise alot of people, i highly doubt he's gunna get knocked out in the first round, but i doubt that he'll win either.

[Wigglyman]

I've been thinking about the Chuck/Tito match, I was thinking that maybe Tito has a good chance becuase he has been quite active over the year, whereas Chuck hasn't fought since April (no-one can count the Sobral match!) so maybe this will work in Tito's favour.

But then again watching Tito/Forrest, the stand up was even...and if its even against Forrest that should mean he'll get owned by Chuck?!?

[Rapid]

I think Tito's striking will have improved alot since Fighting forrest, he will have trained his striking alot for his match against chuck, especially his defence. He's stronger than chuck and has good offensive wrestling. Tito will not out strike chuck, theres no way that will happen, but if he can hang in there long enough to get a takedown then he's got a good chance of keeping him down and doing some serious damage.

[pauli]

I've been thinking about the Chuck/Tito match, I was thinking that maybe Tito has a good chance becuase he has been quite active over the year, whereas Chuck hasn't fought since April (no-one can count the Sobral match!) so maybe this will work in Tito's favour.

But then again watching Tito/Forrest, the stand up was even...and if its even against Forrest that should mean he'll get owned by Chuck?!?
since april, chuck has trained for and fought against babalu.

since april, tito has trained for and fought against ken shamrock. twice.

in that time, they've both had training interrupted by injuries (tito had a broken leg, chuck had a broken foot). both have now been completely healthy for months.

how, exactly, is tito going to get the advantage out of this?

[Wigglyman]

since april, chuck has trained for and fought against babalu.

since april, tito has trained for and fought against ken shamrock. twice.

in that time, they've both had training interrupted by injuries (tito had a broken leg, chuck had a broken foot). both have now been completely healthy for months.

how, exactly, is tito going to get the advantage out of this?


Tito broke his leg?? I never heard about this, knew he did something to his leg but it thought it wasn't broken.

Well Tito has trained for 3 fights, and Chuck for 1. Both will always train 100% so the opposition doesn't matter in that case. Im just think at 37, will that effect "The Iceman"??

[callsignfuzzy]

We saw Liddell go to R4 with Horn, but that was at his own pace. He's gassed before, and Tito's known for having insane cardio. In theory, if he can push the pace then he might wear Chuck down.

Of course, that theory will probably run into a big meaty right hand of DOOOM! from Chuck Liddell. As others have observed, he wins fights backing up.

Ortiz is a better takedown specialist than Horn, but his specialty seems to be leg-dives, which Liddell is really good at defending against. I think Couture had the right idea by trying to clinch first, then throw. That doesn't seem typical of Ortiz's gameplan, so I can only really see him getting off one good takedown in the whole fight. If it goes to the ground, I think Chuck can make it back to his feet before taking too much damage.

Both fighters are very good at their respective gameplans, but I think Chuck has the advantage here. I think Tito's gonna train hard, but sooner or later he's gonna catch a nasty shot to the jaw. I honestly think he's got a better chance of landing a lucky punch than to win by methodical GNP.

[Sever]

Tito broke his leg?? I never heard about this, knew he did something to his leg but it thought it wasn't broken.He had a messed up fibula going into the Griffin fight which he aggravated early in the second round and became a break, hence why his performance dropped off in the second and third rounds. It wasn't a bad break so he was able to train for Shammy. Tito's been pretty much in fight-condition solidly for a lot of this year, so he should be in seriously good shape for this fight (it's not like he got hurt at all in the last two), whereas Liddell's conditioning is always a bit of a question mark. I still think we're in for a replay of the last fight though

[Wigglyman]

He had a messed up fibula going into the Griffin fight which he aggravated early in the second round and became a break, hence why his performance dropped off in the second and third rounds. It wasn't a bad break so he was able to train for Shammy. Tito's been pretty much in fight-condition solidly for a lot of this year, so he should be in seriously good shape for this fight (it's not like he got hurt at all in the last two), whereas Liddell's conditioning is always a bit of a question mark. I still think we're in for a replay of the last fight though

I thought it was some ligament damage, rather than a break? :confused:

A replay...great Eye-Poke of doom time....I mean right hand of doom :rolleyes:

[pauli]

my understanding was that after tuf3 filming stopped and everyone ran off to train, he broke his leg training with mark hamill. there was some drama over whether or not he'd be good to fight ken, but he announced that it would be healed in time for him to do roadwork for six weeks or so prior to the fight, so it was on.

[SuperSanity]

my understanding was that after tuf3 filming stopped and everyone ran off to train, he broke his leg training with mark hamill. there was some drama over whether or not he'd be good to fight ken, but he announced that it would be healed in time for him to do roadwork for six weeks or so prior to the fight, so it was on.
:eek: Mark Hamill!?

[Atharel]

A Jedi is the only thing that can beat a MMA'er!


seriously, what?


Oh, and Liddell via bolo punch KO.

[pauli]

well, why the hell not. get mark up to 205 and let matt do voice acting.

[wazzabi]

A replay...great Eye-Poke of doom time....I mean right hand of doom :rolleyes:

chuck seems to be really good at that :D
and who said eye gouges won't work in the ring? :rolleyes:

[duderanch182]

I recently saw Michael Bispings third mma fight and wow he has improved stand up wise (he wasn't bad but is a lot better now) but his ground game looked really good and when he is on his back he is very active, I think he has potential to do very well in the UFC.

[Apotheosis]

If I was Tito's adviser, I would give him an odd gameplan.

I think he should stand with Chuck, move around and focus on jabs and low kicks.

Chuck is at his best when his opponent is pressing him, so it would take him off his game if you force him to come towards you.

Plus his hands down stance leaves him open to quick jabs and he tends to set his feet before striking which would make leg kicks very effective.

Plus if Chuck is coming towards you, his base is not as strong as it usually is which makes takedowns easier to get.

Tito had a good start the first fight, he just forgot to circle around the octagon and not get trapped against the cage.

[slipthejab]

he broke his leg training with mark hamill.
:eek:Mark Hamill!?
A Jedi is the only thing that can beat a MMA'er!

seriously, what?


Damn that's funny. :D

[Wigglyman]

If I was Tito's adviser, I would give him an odd gameplan.

I think he should stand with Chuck, move around and focus on jabs and low kicks.

Chuck is at his best when his opponent is pressing him, so it would take him off his game if you force him to come towards you.

Plus his hands down stance leaves him open to quick jabs and he tends to set his feet before striking which would make leg kicks very effective.

Plus if Chuck is coming towards you, his base is not as strong as it usually is which makes takedowns easier to get.

Tito had a good start the first fight, he just forgot to circle around the octagon and not get trapped against the cage.

and not get EYE POKED!!

[Dyno]

Anyone have any idea when this will be aired in the UK?
I kinda hope it's not on new years so I don't miss it.

[Wigglyman]

Anyone have any idea when this will be aired in the UK?
I kinda hope it's not on new years so I don't miss it.

Digiguide has it down on the 1st, so should have (hopefully) recovered by then :p

[Apotheosis]

Was a pretty good card in my opinion

"Dark" matches-

Wellisch got a decision victory over Perosh

Okami got a tapout due to strikes over Rory Singer in the 3rd round

Shown matches-

Schafer vs Bisping- Bisping won via TKO in round 1 but seemed rusty and a bit sloppy. Schafer got multiple takedowns but Bisping managed to escape back to his feet. After the first minute or so I thought Schafer had a shot of pulling off an upset but he seemed to gas and run out of steam in the first 2-3 minutes and after that he just kept getting punched. He managed some takedowns off leg kicks but was to gassed to do anything.

Bisping has a lot of work to do if he wants to be champ

Arlovski vs Cruz - Arlovski won via KO after De Pano got the fight to the ground and went for a kneebar or heel hook. Arlovski kicked him in the head, or Herb Dean thought he did so the fight was paused while De Pano told Herb Dean that he had not been punched. Dean started the fight, and I kid you not Arlovski immediately punches De Pano in the face(maybe 1.5 seconds after restart?) which stunned De Pano and then Arlovski pounced throwing numerous punches to De Pano's head.

After the first punch that really stunned De Pano, Arlovski grabbed the fence with one hand to ensure De Pano couldn't move him and punched with the other. Herb Dean had to have been blind not to see the blatant foul, we have no idea if it changed the outcome but we do know that De Pano may have been able to escape and stay in the fight.

McDonald vs Leben - McDonald won via Submisison with a wicked guillotine choke from side/back control in round 2. McDonald seemed to get sloppy as the rounds wore on and really showed poor takedowns. But he managed to get an awsome submission which totally knocked Leben out. We saw Leben try to tap but he was so out of it that he could only tap twice and those can barely be called taps. It was more like a really slow lift of his hand and then total drop onto McDonalds thigh.

Jardine vs Forrest- They stood toe to toe but Jardine got the KO in round 1 with a wicked uppercut/hook combination to knock Forrest down and followed it up with some brutal GnP punches.

It seemed like Forrest had better technique, but Jardine hung in there and impressed me with his power, speed, and combinations.

Forrest was really upset, was crying/moaning and when Rogan interviewed him he said something like "He knocked me the <bleep> out, thats all" and then walked out of the octagon and then literally ran towards his locker room(or wherever he went)

Alves vs DeSouza- Alves won via KO(knee) in Round 2. Really boring fight to begin with, Alves was way to passive with his vastly superior striking and never really let loose. DeSouza got over aggressive and kept getting caught coming in for the takedown and when he went for some wild punches. Could have been called by Big John in round 1 but apparently he respected DeSouza's toughness and thought he could keep going.

Round 2 it seemed DeSouza was still on dream street, he went really wild and his technique really fell apart which led to him being knocked out.

Gonzaga vs Marrero- Gonzaga won via Armbar in Round 1- The entire fight Gonzaga put on a BJJ clinic, it really seemed like Marrero was totally outclassed on the ground.

Main Event

Tito vs Chuck- Liddell won via TKO in round 3.

Round 1- Tito landed some nice jabs and low leg kicks but he let himself get pressed up against the fence towards the end of the round and he was punished for it. Could have been ended in round 1 but Chuck backed off(not sure why).

Round 2- Tito actually won this round on every scorecard I have seen, he showed some nice striking using jabs and leg kicks. He even managed a takedown but it was too late in the round to do anything and Chuck escaped

Round 3- Tito again showed some nice jabs and leg kicks but he kicked Liddells' knee which seemed to slow his kicks. He again got caught standing still and Chuck pressed him close to the fence, they exchanged punches which Tito will 99 times out of 100 get the short stick of and Tito was knocked down. Chuck closed in and really let it loose.

This fight really proved to me that Chuck IS beatable, and that the way to do so is movement, low leg kicks, and jabs. Tito got Chuck to chase him, which was a victory. But then he repeatedly got caught, which is not good. If Chuck is extremely dangerous when being chased he is even more so when he gets you against the cage.

Tito really went for some STUPID takedown attempts that kept getting him into trouble. As Couture repeatedly said, you cannot take Chuck down with a takedown from so far away.

The key to beating Chuck(easy for me to say, but the more I see the more confident I am in the strategy. Of course the execution of said strategy is what matters) seems to be to make him chase you.

To chop his legs down(he didn't check 1 of Tito's kicks) which will sap his power, speed, and overall fighting ability.

His hands were as always quite low, which left him open to some jabs from Tito.

Seriously, if a high quality fighter can get Chuck to chase him and chop his legs and feed him jabs without getting pinned against the cage then they can win.

It's a common military strategy, where a smaller military force retreats and bleeds a larger opponent that is chasing them. However if you get caught by the larger opponent, you're basically a sitting duck.

Of course we will likely never know for sure, since I am not very confident that any successful pro fighters will come to me for advice(Not that I blame them).

Seems Tito's only shot of reclaiming his belt is waiting for Chuck to retire, which may in the end be a successful strategy.

In other news- It was confirmed that Mirko will be fighting Eddie Sanchez at UFC 67 and Rampage will be fighting Eastman at the same event.

Neither fighter was hyped much, in fact they did not even show a single photo of Mirko while Rampage was in the crowd.

Also in the crowd were Anderson Silva wearing a Pimp coat and Sean Sherk. While a fighter was getting checked by the ref prior to entering the octagon we got to see in the background 2 chicks going up to Silva and asking for a photo. They seemed to ignore Sherk, which I imagine must have been a blow to the ego.

[Tom O'Brien]

For us guys who could not see it live here it is: http://video.google.com/videoplaydocid=802497724785554008&q=ortiz+liddell+2&hl=en. There has been some yelling about early stoppage. See what you guys think.
Happy New Year,
Sensei Tom

[Ular Sawa]

I don't think the early stoppage arguement is valid. I didn't hear it at the post fight news conference either. There was respect coming from both sides.

[Pitfighter]

I think it was totally legit. My friends thought that Tito's arm blocked most of the punches but really I saw Liddell punching around Tito's block.

Besides the fight prolly shoulda been stopped in the first. I'm surprised the ref let it go on. I think the ref gave Tito less time to recover in the thrid round because he musta thought Tito was getting punch drunk. Getting punch drunk can be worse than getting cold cocked in terms of head trauma.

Regardless I loved the rest of the fights. Was happy to see Leben get choked out. I thought Leben was way overhyped. I was sad to see Griffin lose but I thought his knockout was cool as chit. I wasn't super impressed by Arvoloski's return but I'm happy to see him return. At least he finished Cruz real fast.

[Apotheosis]

I have no problem with the stoppage, since Tito himself was fine with it. That really say all you need to know about the stoppage.

[Tom O'Brien]

Sorry if the 1st link did not work out. I think they got wise & pulled it. Here is another link with a couple more: http://groups.myspace.com/JoeDaddyMMA
Thanks,
Sensei Tom

[Wigglyman]

Just finnished watching it (Dam being in the UK and getting afterwards and even later than usual due to the New Year!)

But you had to impressed with Tito, he hung in the stand up with Chuck before eventually falling. However his problem was that he never linked his stand up with his take downs. All his take down attempts where shots from the outside rather than boxing his way inside to shoot.

I wasn't impessed by Chuck's performance (GSP style) and feel that if Tito had better stand up then he would have lost...hhmm a wrestler with better stand up...just thinking do the UFC have anyone that fits that bill...I think clearly they just signed one ;)

Seriously if Rampage can fix his head, broken thanks to Chute Box!, then he could well be your next LHW Champ. :woo:

[Pitfighter]

Tito controversy aside, if there is one. I think my favorite fight was actually Griffin versus Jardin.

I just loved seeing Griffin's head bounce after Jardin followed up his knockdown with crouching punches to Griffin's head. :) I think I said it earlier that I had been pulling for Griffin but I still love how that fight turned out.