Traditional Healing

[cal_JJJ]

“...traditional healing arts are based on the proper ebb & flow of chi. All aspects of the body exist in a balance, and all things are related to each other. treatments of injuries addresses not only mechanical aspects but also the innate energetics..”

Agree, disagree, comments.

( energetics: the science that deals w/ energy and its transformations.)

[Mike Flanagan]

Just a couple of minor points.

1. There are many forms of traditional healing from all around the world. Strictly speaking, only the oriental forms deal with chi. And there will be many others that don't focus on 'energy' at all.

2. Traditional Chinese Medicine is a bit more complex than just dealing with chi. There are a number of other factors to be taken into consideration. But yes, chi is at the heart of the matter.

Mike

[cal_JJJ]

Hello Mr. Flanagan;

Okay, care to expand on that some?

On your first point, Do you think that the concept of chi is/was universal at some level? For instance Euro mummies have been discovered w/ tatoos on spots corrisponding to Chineese meridians, and some cultures looked on illnesses as external energies invading the body.

On your second point, what would these relationship frame work be given modern knowledge vs TOM.

[Drift3r]

I know that in the united states they used to believe in bleeding people. Removed bad toxins or something. Although, that treatment never did work and it killed a bunch of people. :)

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by cal_JJJ
On your first point, Do you think that the concept of chi is/was universal at some level?

I'm not really qualified to say I don't think. There is a strong correlation regarding ideas of qi/prana between the Indian sub-continent and the orient. But these two areas are adjacent and already known to have experienced some degree of communication between them. As for other parts of the world, nothing really springs to mind but I don't know enough to comment on their forms of traditional medicine.

For instance Euro mummies have been discovered w/ tatoos on spots corrisponding to Chineese meridians

This sounds suspiciously like an urban myth to me (like the one about scientists having proved the existence of qi). Can you point me in the direction of any literature confirming this?

On your second point, what would these relationship frame work be given modern knowledge vs TOM.

There isn't really time or space for me to make a comparison with modern medicine, but the other concepts that are important in traditional chinese medicine include:
- qi
- original essence
- yin
- yang
- pernicious influences

Mike

[Reiki]

We are taught in reiki that the ability to heal with universal life force energy was lost at some stage by mankind, and only a few practioners remained mainly in the Tibetan, Chinese and Japanese monastries. There was also thought to be some connection with the Egyptians however I have only read a few vague references to this.

Reiki was rediscovered only in recent times [approx 1900] by Mikao Usui on Mt Kurama in Japan and has spread from there to all corners of the earth.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

One slight thought: is energetics a science or philosophy? Surely to be a science it would have to have been tested as one, and to my knowledge it hasn't been yet.

On another note, my traditional healing involves going to bed and sleeping until I feel better. Works better than most prescriptions, and in fact better than just about any other therapy or treatment that I've tried so far.

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by ckdstudent
One slight thought: is energetics a science or philosophy? Surely to be a science it would have to have been tested as one, and to my knowledge it hasn't been yet.

I think it would be closer to philosophy.


On another note, my traditional healing involves going to bed and sleeping until I feel better. Works better than most prescriptions, and in fact better than just about any other therapy or treatment that I've tried so far.

Without adequate sleep, nutrition etc. any therapy will only have limited results. Another thing to consider here is what the actual problem is. Surprising though it may seem, many of my clients have actually tried a good night's sleep, but still found it necessary to consult a therapist. Sleep will do little to correct musculo-skeletal problems, postural problems etc.

Mike

[cal_JJJ]

Normally, I would be lined up in your camp ckdstudent, if you can’t reproduce it under controlled conditions them it’s probably not useful. A case in point, would be someone claiming to form ki-orbs and throwing them across the room to blow out candles. Do it in several diff. labs and then I will pay attention.

But when it comes to health and healing, I think we have to back off the “scientific process” a little. For example, It is well known that people that are happy and up-beat recover from injuries quicker but not always. Conversely, Sometimes people respond to scientifically proven methods but die anyway and it is said that “they had no will to live”. None of this can be reproduced reliably under controlled conditions but is well documented and common knowledge.

[Reiki, Mike] have you any experiences in the area of ki/chi/mana/etc.?

[Mike Flanagan]

Originally posted by cal_JJJ
[Reiki, Mike] have you any experiences in the area of ki/chi/mana/etc.?

Yes, a reasonable amount. I have done a lot of looking at ki, both academically & experientially.

Mike

[Reiki]

Originally posted by cal_JJJ
[Reiki, Mike] have you any experiences in the area of ki/chi/mana/etc.?

All my experience is with Reiki healing Cal. I do know that ki flows during a reiki session and both myself and my patients can feel it.

[Reiki]

I forgot to mention that it is normally felt as heat [or sometimes cold], and can also be felt as a buzzing, tickling or tingling sensation throughout the body.

[cal_JJJ]

I haven’t much exp. in this area, but I do have some related exp. that causes me to want to know more and put together some sort of unifying point of view that makes sense to me in the area of ki, chi, reiki, mana, prana, animism, etc. as it relates to health.

Do you feel that the heat felt over injured muscles/joints is related or not?

Do you feel that emotional make-up (spirit/ attitude) of person is a factor?

[KickChick]

Ming Chew, Columbia University and NYU grad, former bodybuilder and jujitsu practitioner, has been getting some press lately for using a syncretic method of healing similar to a to Bruce Lee's method.

Just as Lee borrowed from many different disciplines to arrive at what he felt was the best form of martial arts, Chew has taken from many different theories of physical rehabilitation ... both Western and non-Western ... and blended them into the form he now practices on patients.
Here is the full (interesting) story....
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/179721p-156226c.html

[cal_JJJ]

KC, Thanks for the article.
I've only had a small amount of involvement w/ rehabilitating MA injuries, but I'm surprised at how often injuries (esp. the back) are tied to the hips being out of alignment, which was touched on in this article as well.

Thanks again, Cal

[wudangfajing]

Well this is what i think even about Allopathie.

All thing are a science, all thing are a art, all thing are phylosophie, all thing are a religion.

That being said each person shifts thru the diferent aspects at diferent times and paths changes in a life of each new idea.
Being each new subject has a life of its own lets take Martial Arts.
Why is it called Martial Arts?
Well i think at one time it was totally necesay as as pre science stage
it developed to a science stage then to an art an later to a religion and now is a way of define your personnal Phylosophie. This may sound odd but there is a specific science in the Acupuncture and Herb and Probly in reiki and Chi you would need to look in to how they use there science first. Well most try to use a science that does not take into account the preexisting idea of that method.

[ember]

Just a couple of minor points.

1. There are many forms of traditional healing from all around the world.

This is true.


Strictly speaking, only the oriental forms deal with chi.

I disagree. There are European forms that deal with energy in some form or another, often with symbolism and/or prayer. The Havamal and Sigdrifunal (Prose Edda) both list rune-charms for a variety of purposes including healing.


And there will be many others that don't focus on 'energy' at all.

Concur.


2. Traditional Chinese Medicine is a bit more complex than just dealing with chi. There are a number of other factors to be taken into consideration. But yes, chi is at the heart of the matter.


European traditional healing is also more complex than just dealing with chi / energy. Chi just seems to be the most esoteric.

I would argue that herbology is a universal traditional healing method.

There are also various methods dealing with water, including saunas and sweat lodges, that seem to stretch across northern Eurasia and also into Native American traditions.

However, it is hard for me to say whether herbology and water methods are strictly "mechanical" (physical / chemical) or a mix of mechanical and energetic.

Also, we should not forget the psychological aspects of healing. My (limited) eexperience suggests that MOST things are psychosomatic, they have both a physical component and a mental. Which then brings up the question, whether a prayer or ritual for healing works due to psychological / hypnotic reasons, physical reasons, or energetics.

[wudangfajing]

More than one person that is a TCM Doctor i know say just that

psychological aspects of healing. My (limited) eexperience suggests that MOST things are psychosomatic, they have both a physical component and a mental
emberKSW

One goes so far to say that alot of sickness happen in child hood that is never gotten over by the person an that is what is actually being treated as adult years latter. He even said that there have been actual ways to tell what the existing trauma was that caused it also. I dont know how he can tell but he has been doing the medicine for 30 years. The same person said that somone can go on for years without a sickness but have thing like internal an external (in skin) type of infection (abscess), once they show up he says it usually means the coming of many other sickness in the person.
This same person would say that Allopathie is for the stars as in for when spaceships take the astronauts up the all metal rooms for surgery an metal table. He woudl suggest that that medicine was being build for space travel an not earth even the way they focus on how to get more money form ppl he said was a prime sine of this. He said that some sickness would show up in certain way that would suggest a certain fear from the person. Likened to over eating he said that had a very serious implication about lack of social an self responsiblity and he even said that ppl who had sexual issues he could tell like over sexually active in some form. (Stopping right there for possible say words that would offend) But like to to much self pleasuring he said that he could tell when ppl were like that an what it usually related to in males and in females. In males he said that it was with drawing form true human contact. In females it was sign of a from there child hood. There were lots of these thing he coudl pick up on what was going on with a person by what they said an how they would act about thing.It was often more interesting to me to listen to this teacher in class say thing about his medical understanding than the Martial arts we did alot of times.