Advise appreciated on JKD in London

[londoner2001]

After having a couple of years off of martial arts training I will soon be getting back into formal practise. I left my original class due to a few reasons including leaving college and starting a career and not being satisfied with the school that I was at.

I have always had an interest in JKD particularly the philosophical side of it regarding Bruce's beliefs on fighting and self defense. I will be looking to participate in a group class and have private tuition but unfortunately because of my work I have very little free time to attend constant classes and am gonna rely on training at home to keep up regular practise, I will most likely be able to fit in one hour a week private and one hour at a class. I have looked through a couple of posts here about instructors and haven't really seen anything suitable. I am looking for someone who teaches the Inosanto or orgiinal Bruce Lee curriculum and doesn't deviate, so incorporating all punches, kicks, grappling and some groundfighting. The reason that I want to do group class as well is that I think training with different levels of martial artist is extremely important, learning how to deal with novices and advanced students and learning control but primarily I like sparring and would like to find a class that does semi contact, full padding gum shield head guard etc with full contact punches and kicks and throws etc. I like san shou a lot but haven't found anywhere teaching it to a high standard, unfortunately martial arts seems to be a case of quantity and not quality in the UK!

If anyone can tell me of any teachers that they recommend for private or group lessons I would really appreciate it as I want to have a shortlist before I am ready to start again. I have looked at Dan Inosanto's list of apprentice instructors and researched a few people on ther and I have one in mind who I will contact but he doesn't do group tuition so would still need a regular class to go to.

On the other hand, if anyone knows of a good san shou class in London I would be very keen to hear of that. Am in north London so Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire would be ok for weekend classes and most parts of London could travel to.

Also, in JKD classes is there generally a lot of heavy bag work and sand bag etc???? I am a big fan of conditioning and use a free standing bag and a sandbag to work my hands and keep them in shape as well as look after my kicks and punches while I have been out of formal training, being someone into reality training I am not keen on a class where they throw air pucnhes and kicks non stop and have no real heavy contact.

Many thanks for all your time.

[YODA]

Hi and welcome to MAP

For group classes in London try Bob Breen's Academy in Hoxton Square...

www.bobbreen.co.uk

[DeeTee]

Hi

If you're looking for someone teaching the original curriculum of Bruce Lee (Jun Fan) then check out Sifu Steve Foy http://jkdlondon.co.uk/

He's based in Hammersmith, Earls court and Picaddilly. He's the London representitive for Dave Carnells Impact Academy and Cass Magda.

[Stuart Rider]

Like Yoda said check out Bob Breen. His sight has a full list of instructors under him.
Also check out zanshinkali.co.uk

Paul does a classs couple of nights a week in South London but he can also give you details of classes under Ralph Jones
a full Instructor under Dan Inosanto.

There are a couple of other instructors in London as well.

You can follow links from Bobbs sight toTeryy barnetts and from there to other london based instructors

Good Luck

[dredleviathan]

Londoner2001, I train at the Bob Breen Academy and have really enjoyed my time there and learnt a hell of a lot. There are a number of instructors there qualified under Guro Inosanto at varying levels and the curriculum is wide. There are classes everyday of the week except Sunday and numerous seminars (including an annual Guro I seminar) so it does give a bit of flexibility.

Having said that it is only econimically viable, in my opinion, if you plan to train 3+ times a week. Otherwise its a lot of money. But then what isn't in London...

Apart from Bob the other Full Instructor under Guro is Terry Barnett. I can't praise him enough as a teacher or person and you wouldn't go far wrong with him as an instructor. He teaches at the academy on Monday nights from 18.30 to 21.45 (Kali & JKD) and does take privates but I'm not sure how much time he has on his hands. Terry's website is: Integrated Arts (http://www.integratedarts.co.uk/)

Other Academy instructors that I would totally recommend and who teach privately are Neil McLeod, Tim Harding and Dave Onuma (details on the Bob Breen website). Although to be honest its really hard to pick from the bunch but these three have taught me so much. For privates Neil would almost definitely be available and is an exceptional fighter as well as teacher. He teaches at the Academy and is also based in Aylesbury.

As mentioned there is also Ralph Jones and Paul Finn but I notice you are in North London. Again both brilliant choices.

Considering the area that you say you live in I would perhaps recommend Michael Wright. Although I have not trainied with him, I have always heard very good reports about his teaching and the group that he runs:

London Jun Fan Academy (http://www.zyworld.com/mwright/Welcome.htm)

They train at the University of Hertfordshire in Hatfield and in Frien Barnet. Michael is certified under Rick Faye of the Minnesota Kali Group and Paul Vunak - so there is the Inosanto lineage that you're looking for.

Let us know how you get on.

Dred

[londoner2001]

Many thanks for all the replies, I appreciate you all giving your time to reply.

All the classes mentioned I had noted and most I had dismissed for reasons I won't divulge as it's not neccessary on public forum. I was interested though in the Jun Fan Academy headed by Michael Wright and Bob Breen's Academy.

Dredleviathan, how si your trainng at BB academy? I noticed someone saying that it wasn't true to Bruce's way of JKD and there was too much Muay Thai etc but under Guru Inosanto Bob Breen is highly respected in Europe so that sounds a bit strange. Is there a lot of sparring and if so what sort? Is there sparring at the London Jun Fan Academy? What about heavy bag work etc, ground fighting, grappling, throws, takedowns, do they cover all fighting ranges etc? Which class would you say produced more well rounded fighters?

Finally, of all the teachers that you have had, who would you say is the most kinda motivational, I work best with instructors who are quite lively and very motivational I like to be really pushed and not just left to progress at a relaxed pace, I had noticed Dave Onuma on the site and he seems like someone I could relate to, he is listed as not doing private training at Bob Breen but he teahes under the Integrated Arts banner, does he teach privately at home or something, I noticed he is very experienced at all ranges, certainly has been round the block, training wise!

I would be greatful for any further info you can give on these classes and specific teachers, I should think by now you have a good idea of the sort of teeaching I work well with and class I am looking for! Many thanks.

[dredleviathan]

Londoner2001,

You're asking very hard questions that I don't think it is really in my power (or pretty much anyone elses) to answer satisfactorily. Basically the worst thing about JKD is all the f**king politics involved - it drives me totally insane.

Please forgive me if a fire storm starts after this.

Essentially you have two schools of thought. JKD nucleus and JKD concepts. The nucleus (as I understand it) believe that Bruce Lee left a complete art and curriculum and teach what was set down at certian points in time - although I'm not sure really that everyone agrees at what point to draw the line.

JKD concepts (as popularised by Guro Inosanto et al) essentially see JKD as a training process. A method, if you will, for your own exploration of the marital arts.

Who is right, who teaches what Bruce wanted, etc etc? Who knows - he's dead. And to my mind who really cares. No disrespect intended but BL, whilst an insipration, is not accessible to me. Guro Inosanto - to a certain extent - is and my teachers most definitely are. Also teachers that I have yet to meet will also be influential as I grow in the arts.

Personally I like the concepts approach as it has moved with the times which is what I think BL would have done himself. You mention Thai and the various grappling arts (don't forget weaponary).. all ranges... well from what I've seen what BL was doing in the 60's & 70's couldn't possibly account for all the stuff that is going around thesedays! For me though its not about being like BL as I will never achieve this and anyway look at all the great people out there that you can actually meet, train with and swap ideas with now! I wasn't even born in the 60's so why would I want to train 60's style?

I guess its kind of like music, once in a while I like to stick a Beatles track on but, music didn't end when they split up, turned hippy or got shot. I'm all for a bit of progressive rock, heavy metal, punk, ska, drum 'n' bass etc when I'm in the mood... you catch my drift?

In terms of selecting your teacher there is only one way and that is to go meet them, train with them, chat with them and see if you like what they say/do. You need to give a bit of time to this too as most teachers will sound you out too. Its a two-way process.

In terms of my own experience at the BB Academy I don't want to say too much. I don't feel its my place as a student to comment too greatly on my instructors (many of whom I now am fortunate to include amongst my freinds). If I tell you how great my experience has been someone will come along a say "yeah but what about X, Y, Z"... there are, as in all things, pros and cons.

The BB Academy, as I said, earlier offers a wide curriculum that covers all ranges. There aren't any bad classes or bad teachers. Some you will like, some you won't. Train there for 3+ years and you'll realise that this is a fluid relationship and your preferences change as you progress and explore. I've been doing different things recently and wondering why the hell I didn't do that or that class before (time is always the enemy).

If you aren't interested in Muay Thai don't do the Thai class. If Kali isn't your thing do something else. Try Jun Fan, try the Vale Tudo class, go to a more general/eclectic class. Try a different training partner - it changes your whole perspective especially if they have a different MAs history. If you want to use the heavy bag its there hanging ready to be used (as are all the other bags). If you want to spar you can do it in class or find some mates and sort it out yourself. Its your training at the end of the day.

Having said all that the BB Academy is not the be-all and end-all of MA's in London, the UK or Europe. There are many great teachers some of whom operate in a smaller manner and yet still teach to as high a standard.

Also don't forget that the price of an average private lesson will probably get you a month of group classes. I had privates when I started and found them confusing and a bit of a waste of time. Now that I'm a little more experienced I find them essential from time to time. Also you might find that some instructors will only take you on as a private student once they get to know you.

When it comes down to it Londoner2001 you won't be able to make up you mind by what we on MAP tell you. You have to go out and have a try. You can make as many lists as you like with pros and cons of each style, teacher and club etc but none of this is your own experience. What suits me may not suit you. And in fact what suited me 5 years ago does not suit me now.

Sorry to lecture londoner2001 but I don't know you and can't really offer anything other than a list of instructors that I have trianed with or heard about. I wish I were a tenth as good as any of the people I mentioned.

[DeeTee]

Hi Dred,

What a well thought out, honest and intelligent response. Nice one.

[londoner2001]

Sorry to not get back sooner, Dred, thanks for your reply, I didn't take it at all as a lecture, I understand your point of view. I think what I have in a way possibly miscommunicated is that I like structured disciplined teaching, I don't work well with laid back classes at all. A friend went to a WSL Wing Chun class and although they have an ok reputation it was a very informal training atmosphere, just doesn't fit the way we like to train and respond best, I would be the first to say that some people respond better to training in that atmosphere almost like positive reinforcement in dog training but personally I don't.

I am building my strenght and fitness up at present so it will be a little while before I go and check out classes, do the Bob Breen academy let you watch a lesson just to get a feel for it? I find that many instructors let you try a class out for money or perhaps for free but you get a better perspective by watching, you pick up more of what the instructor/instructors are like.

Personally, my view on private lessons is that they are the main stay of teaching in my case and the group lessons allow you to polish off and use your technique against several different types of opponent, but that's just my opinion.

Many thanks and I may well see you at some point at the BB academy.

[guaca]

Hi

I would highly reccomend Sifu Steve Foy. He teaches Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, Bruce Lee's original curriculum. He has a variety of classes around west and central london and also does Private lessons if you cant make the regular classes.

Check the website for more information...

http://jkdlondon.co.uk

He's is the Magda Institutes rep in London.

They also teach Pentjak Silat and Kali at the classes.

[Lucky]

This is an old thread but i thought i'd throw this link out there anyway:


http://www.mnkali.com/html/locations.php


Instructors that have worked with and or affiliated with the MnKali group. There's still a few active links to clubs in the UK.


Regards

[londoner2001]

Thanks for the reply but after a few years of putting myself off I'm finally going to take up what I have alwas wanted to do, Muay Thai, going to train in traditional Muay Boran etc and take private lessons in Chi Kung for my internal side of the martial arts.

Many thanks to all who chipped in about JKD.

[Andy Murray]

Good luck londoner, be sure and let us know how it goes. ;)

[sermad]

Hi Dred.

I'm not sure if we have met as Ive only been going to BB academy for about 6 months now. Maybe we've rolled at one of neils lessons...(in that case you probably submitted me in about 3 seconds).

To londoner.

From my experience of the academy I would certainly recommend it if you are looking to be a more rounded fighter.

I came from a kick boxing background (having spent many years at the Sama club in Brighton) so I had no experience of JKD. I had moved to london and was looking for a good club and so was my friend of who studied Black Dragon in birmingham.

When I first started I tried as many classes as I could just to get a feel of things - sticks, trapping, jkd, vale tudo and so on.

I now fell into a pattern of doing Monday 6:30-9:30 for Grappling (Dave), Sticks and JKD (Terry) - Then wednesday 6:30-9:30 for trapping (Steve), JKD and Vale Tudo (Neil).

For me this works. I don't kill myself physically on this routine and I also have time to rest and possibly hit a Friday/Saturday session if I have the time.

Ive trained with quite a lot of the teachers at the academy and I personally find neil to be the most intune with what I want. That is, practical training which sometimes throws away the rulebook. His vale tudo lessons were initially very very scary but now I don't mind if I spar against a much higher grade - I know I will probably submit but every week I last just that bit longer.

I find the academy very relaxed, very friendly and I've encountered no meatheads and no ego's. Even when higher grades are forced to partner with newbies (take sticks for example) they do it immensly well. There doesn't seem to be any emphasis on grading grading grading (like some places Ive trained at) and I'm very happy where I am.

[tel]

in central london, with out question bob breens,in bucks wher i train neil mcleod teaches there,bob breens no1 student that quate come from bob breen,just outside london u got ralph jones and the dartford academy

[Simplicity]

If you are looking for someone that point the way " Pat O'Malley is your man". If you are looking for a hole lot of nothing, jake of all trades go concept. By the way guys, I don't Know what these teachers that come over the pond for the states are telling you people over there "BUT" I'm from the the states and Magda Institute is a off shoot concept school of thought, period. This is by no means to discredit what they "Do". But there is a difference between "Doing and Being". You choose.

Take It Easy
John

[tel]

If you are looking for someone that point the way " Pat O'Malley is your man". If you are looking for a hole lot of nothing, jake of all trades go concept. By the way guys, I don't Know what these teachers that come over the pond for the states are telling you people over there "BUT" I'm from the the states and Magda Institute is a off shoot concept school of thought, period. This is by no means to discredit what they "Do". But there is a difference between "Doing and Being". You choose.

Take It Easy
John
ok for a start,jake of all trades,well ok dan inosanto,rick faye,rick tucci,bob breen,rick young,no nothing hey,these guys are excellent at what they do,jun fan,kali,bjj,these guys are world class.they have spend years learning and refining what they do.so that is a total lack of respect to these guys when u say that,all of these so called guys who call themselves first generation students were in fact under dan inosanto.the nuclues memebers apart from taky kimura are students of dan inosanto,so while its good to keep alive bruce lee's memory,they countine to live in the past hanging on to his name,while making money off it.
with great respect to pat he now only teaches fma,tho he was very high in jkd

[YODA]

I'm locking this one.

1. It's a resurrected thread from December 2003!

2. It's spiralling down into "my Dad is bigger than your Dad" territory.

BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!