Starting Out

[Drop Dead Fred]

Well, I have started my training for sticks, but was a little shocked at how 'brutal' the applications are.

But that's my problem.

[Stolenbjorn]

Well, I have started my training for sticks, but was a little shocked at how 'brutal' the applications are.

But that's my problem.
Remember; most historical WMA-techniques are meant for "kill or be killed" situations. I therfore don't recomend WMA for people that want to learn self-defence that is compatible with modern juristiction. Personally, I learn historical WMA because of my love for history, not for beeing able to defend myself on the streets. If (god forbid) I actually end up in a lethal situation on the street, I'm afraid I cannot do much of what's drilled into my spine, as it's not compatible with modern laws.

[Langenschwert]

Well, I have started my training for sticks, but was a little shocked at how 'brutal' the applications are.

But that's my problem.

Well, that's the nature of a historical martial art intended as a system of homicide. If it isn't a system of homicide, it's not really "martial", IMO. If during a study session, I don't feel that my humanity has been violated by the brutality of what I've learned, then I didn't really learn anything. In longsword, we study how to cut people into pieces, or break their limbs and sundry nasty things. That's what life and death encounters are about, and I think it's important to be aware of the the destructive power of these weapons, and respect those who used them with such courage.

Best regards,

-Mark

[Drop Dead Fred]

Well, that's the nature of a historical martial art intended as a system of homicide. If it isn't a system of homicide, it's not really "martial", IMO. If during a study session, I don't feel that my humanity has been violated by the brutality of what I've learned, then I didn't really learn anything. In longsword, we study how to cut people into pieces, or break their limbs and sundry nasty things. That's what life and death encounters are about, and I think it's important to be aware of the the destructive power of these weapons, and respect those who used them with such courage.

Best regards,

-Mark

Thanks for the reply. Mr. Doyle was very candid about the aggressive nature of the system before I signed up (stating "it's not for everyone"), but to see it in action was definitely an experience.

On a secondary topic, does anyone know where I can get a really good "Training Blackthorn". Mr. Doyle teaches with his father's blackthorn stick, but the rest of the class uses replicas, I would like to practice with the authentic wood. Any suggestions wuld be great.

DDF

[Stolenbjorn]

I live in Norway (Europe), and we use ASH, This blackthorn is certainly not somthing that grows in Norway, so I cannot help you. What about asking mr Doyle? Buy a flora-book, learn where this Blackthorn grows, and take a holiday to go and find some, cut it, let it dry for half a year, then grind it into shape with sand-paper.

[Drop Dead Fred]

What about asking Mr. Doyle?

I did that tonight, actually. He said he'll get me something by October, so it's purpleheart sticks until then.

Tonight's class was a little more settling, more basics and foundations than applications. Though I can't feel my shoulders or forearms, I feel better than the last class, so I guess that's something.

DDF

[Stolenbjorn]

Tonight's class was a little more settling, more basics and foundations than applications. Though I can't feel my shoulders or forearms, I feel better than the last class, so I guess that's something.
Watch out for atendenitis! The first weeks, the movements are strange to your body. Go light, do the movements without the stick when (if) you drill, use light stuff if you drill at home (a ruler, a kitchen-knife, etc) :)

[Langenschwert]

Watch out for atendenitis! The first weeks, the movements are strange to your body. Go light, do the movements without the stick when (if) you drill, use light stuff if you drill at home (a ruler, a kitchen-knife, etc) :)

Sage words. As a professional musician for many years, and now a student of swordsmanship, I can attest from personal experience that tendonitis is bad news. If it starts to hurt, then STOP for the day, and take an Advil or two to reduce the swelling that can lead to injury, and try again the next day. Be especially careful of your wrists and elbows. Do stretches that last for 20-30 seconds, with no "bouncing". Steady pressure is the key.

Keep us updated on your progress. Except for a bit of escrima, I know bugger all about stick fighting. :)

Best regards,

-Mark

[Drop Dead Fred]

Class #3:

Got paired off with a MOUNTAIN of a dude tonight. The give & take was pretty intimidating at first, but my partner was so amazingly helpful that by the end of the hour, I was executing it full force and felt really natural.

My stick punches are getting better, though my forearms and shoulders are still burning. Having a little trouble with sme of the subtle footwork, but I'm getting a 30 minute private lesson tomorrow.

Thanks for all the feedback, I hope I'm not boring anyone :)

[Stolenbjorn]

Thanks for all the feedback, I hope I'm not boring anyone :)There's so little traffic here on the cosy WMA-forum, so it's nice to have somthing new to read :)
(Besides, I'm an instructor, so it's nice to read the experiences of a newbee; perhaps you can teach me somthing :love: )

[Langenschwert]

Class #3:

Got paired off with a MOUNTAIN of a dude tonight. The give & take was pretty intimidating at first, but my partner was so amazingly helpful that by the end of the hour, I was executing it full force and felt really natural.

My stick punches are getting better, though my forearms and shoulders are still burning. Having a little trouble with sme of the subtle footwork, but I'm getting a 30 minute private lesson tomorrow.

Thanks for all the feedback, I hope I'm not boring anyone :)

Yeah, it can be interesting working with large size difference. I'm 6' tall, so most of my training partners are shorter than me. One new guy is 6'4", so sparring him is a bit of a challenge. I end up sniping his hands a lot, or wait for him to over-extend himself.

Keep on posting. The more info on the 'net there is on WMA, the better. You never know who might end up finding this conversation on Google, and lo and behold, a new WMAer is born! :)

-Mark

[Drop Dead Fred]

A full week of training done and I'm as sore as I've ever been, but also jazzed! Moved on to the first Rince (a number of pre-arranged applications), executed at full power on my attacker (a person all padded up, but doesn't help much).

He ended up with a nasty looking knuckle, and a gash over his eye, but was as happy as hell. It's hard to understand, but pounding out a few things I had learned in class and seeing their application (not to mention devestation :) ) at full throttle has just got me addicted. Unfortunately, I have to sign up for the kung fu classes, because Sifu Doyle doesn't charge for the stick fighting, but I'll give it a try.

[lklawson]

Remember; most historical WMA-techniques are meant for "kill or be killed" situations.
Oh, I don't know about that. More likely that there was a selective recording going on. Non-lethal civilian applications probably just didn't make the cut when it came to "is this important enough to write down on expesinve materials" lists.

We can either write down knightly combat in armour with knightly weapons or we can go out, dig up some of those dirty peasants, learn their "thump'n and wrastl'n" techniques... hmmm...

But, for what it's worth, there was some less-than-lethal stuff eventually recorded. Petter's Wrestling and Mendoza's Lessons, for instance. :-)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[lklawson]

Well, I have started my training for sticks, but was a little shocked at how 'brutal' the applications are.

But that's my problem.
As one old Martial Artist I know is fond of pointing out: "It's fighting, not folkdancing."

:-)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[lklawson]

On a secondary topic, does anyone know where I can get a really good "Training Blackthorn". Mr. Doyle teaches with his father's blackthorn stick, but the rest of the class uses replicas, I would like to practice with the authentic wood. Any suggestions wuld be great.
Blackthorn wasn't the ONLY wood used. Oak (from the Shillelagh Forest), Ash, Holly, etc.

You might also look at Hawthorn too. Those grow native to North America. Since we're talking about naitive NA woods you should also consider Hickory and especially Osage Orange (aka: Hedgeapple, Bodark, Bois d'Ark, etc.)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

[Drop Dead Fred]

Blackthorn wasn't the ONLY wood used. Oak (from the Shillelagh Forest), Ash, Holly, etc.

You might also look at Hawthorn too. Those grow native to North America. Since we're talking about naitive NA woods you should also consider Hickory and especially Osage Orange (aka: Hedgeapple, Bodark, Bois d'Ark, etc.)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Thanks Kirk,


I'm trying Apple Wood tomorrow.

[Stolenbjorn]

Oh, I don't know about that. More likely that there was a selective recording going on. Non-lethal civilian applications probably just didn't make the cut when it came to "is this important enough to write down on expesinve materials" lists.

We can either write down knightly combat in armour with knightly weapons or we can go out, dig up some of those dirty peasants, learn their "thump'n and wrastl'n" techniques... hmmm...

But, for what it's worth, there was some less-than-lethal stuff eventually recorded. Petter's Wrestling and Mendoza's Lessons, for instance. :-)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
Yes, I should have been more presice (it's not allways easy to bee 100% correct, whithout having to write 2pages-posts) Historical WMA was an attempt to be precise, but it's of course not presice enough. I don't know about "Petter's Wresteling", but I know that mendoza is 17th/18th century martial sports (boxing). I was thinking more about the older stuff, like Lichtenauer, Ringek, Durer, Fiore, Vadi, Talhoffer and I-33, which is pretty nasty stuff. (In our group, we're going very light, but that haven't stopped me from permanent shoulder-damage after trying to get a closer understanding of Fiore-dagger-techniques.)

[Louie]

Thanks Kirk,


I'm trying Apple Wood tomorrow.

I bought a nice apple-wood cudgel from ebay tyhat seems to have lasted quite well compared to a brier-wood version.

Louie

[Drop Dead Fred]

I bought a nice apple-wood cudgel from ebay tyhat seems to have lasted quite well compared to a brier-wood version.

Louie


I like the apple wood, Sifu Doyle broke his :D while teaching, but he seemed to like it for the duration of the 10 minutes he used it.

For me it worked fine, and I think Ill stick to this now and see how it goes.

[Stolenbjorn]

I use (norwegian) ash from my own woods :) It is good enough for longswordwasters and for deacent bows :love:

[Drop Dead Fred]

Just picked up a White Ash stick today. I'll be using it tonight. :rolleyes:

[Drop Dead Fred]

Well, so far 've been through 5 different sticks and am now on something called Jatoba (sp?). It's a little heavier than I'm used to, but it's very strong and I think able to handle the classes.

I've finished 2 rinces and have finally got a handle on the footwork, loving every minute of it!

[Stolenbjorn]

I'll "report in" as well :)

A Swede have moved to my region, that have been training german longsword for allmost 4 years. It was fun to train with him, to compare with Fiore, and to learn from his point of wiew after having been the "lead student" ever since my teacher moved to germany 3 years ago.