Tae Kwon Do weaknesses

[kansetsuhazushi]

Hello, I don't post here but I do read alot, and this is my first time here in the Tae Kwon Do section, so well.... Hi.

I know that most of you Tae Kwon Do'ers don't like giving away your weaknesses (who does?) but I'm entering MMA tournament held by me and my freinds and their freinds. See, I've never done any martial arts, but I've sort of developed my own set off counterattack skills. This is pretty much based on defeating Judo, Karate, Shorinji Kenpo, Aikido, and the street fighters (not like the game). There are about twenty of us gathering together for this tournament, and about 11-12 of them practice Tae Kwon Do. Now while I shouldn't have much trouble against them, I've never sparred or fought against someone who does Tae Kwon Do.

Is there anything you guys could help me with? You know weaknesses and/or strenghts that I could exploit. If so, thanks!!!

[Taeho]

Yes, don't get kicked...lol

TKDshane Ÿ

[djhallib]

Let me get this straight.

You and some friends are arranging a mma tournament. You don't pracitce anything, but sound like you have some fight experience. Is that from "the street", "the hood" or actual sensible training?

Will there be medical personel where this tournament is held?
Will any safety equipment, like gloves or likewise be used?
Is this inspired by a movie called "fight club"?

As to the weaknesses of taekwondo.
I do wtf tkd btw.

The lack of punches to the face stands out. The close combat is also pretty sloppy. So if you keep close and use mainly punches/knees you should be able to bring them down pretty easily.

This is just for competition tkd though. Many fighters will not have so "style" based weaknesses.

What "counter-attack" skills do you have? If you explain it better we might be able to help.

[flyingblackbelt]

ummmm, you cant really classify any weaknesses of any martial art because everyone has their own style, especially in tae kwon do. I mean if you have never had any martial arts experience and youre facing someone who has youre already at a major disadvantage. You have to look at youre opponent and figure him or her out.

[tai-gip]

spinning kicks leave large openings ..also should they be trained to "bounce" attack when they are in the air..... depending on the rules either do or fake low kicks ... and based on your skills description to be honest you should hope they arnt any good because generaly style effectiveness is based on the individual.. i preffer kung fu styles but have caused considerable havok using tkd i guess go in there give it a shot and enjoy yourself

[saikyou]

you sure that you really want to join that tournament w/out proper MA training?

[MandrilBorracho]

wear mouth & head protection; you are going to need them.
try to close in fast, as you'll be at a disadvantage at long range; they'll be faster, stronger and "flexibler" (is that even a word?) than you at leg range.

Oh, and don't forget to pray to whatever gods you follow to keep you from harm, because entering a fighting tournament without any real training is one of the worst ideas i can think of.

[kansetsuhazushi]

Hey, thanks for the info so far. It's been pretty helpful so far. I just want to get a couple of things straight.

1.What I meant by I've never done any martial arts is that I've never been taught martial arts before. Although, I don't train with forms, weights, running or that kind of stuff, I'm a pretty experienced fighter. I'm Indian and I live in Japan. That alone gets me into alot of fights with Japanese punks since I look like a Taliban. That plus every now and then I go into a dojo of karate, shorinji kenpo, or judo and spar or have a proper match with some of the higher ranked people. I'm lucky since my freinds dad knows the head teacher for these dojo's or I wouldn't be able to do this. So skillwise, if you were to rank me belt wise, I would be a black belt(one of the higher ranks).

2.I can't really describe my counterattacks because they change with the situation. An analogue would be the movie Snake and Crane Kung Fu. If you saw it there was a scene towards the end where Jackie Chan was doing the Snake Kung Fu and Crane Kung Fu at the same time and was switching between the two fluidly. My defense moves are pretty much like that. Although there are certain moves that are basics that don't change, everything else changes with my movement. It sounds like a load of horsesh**, but it isn't. When I first thought of it, I thought so too. But it works and that's the only reason I'm sticking to it. The point is to be unpredictable. The way I honed my skills is by first getting my a** kicked a couple of times while analyzing my opponents movements. Then I wrote them down in a book and figured out the weak points and strong points. From there I pretty much did image training and stretched to be flexible.

3.About the tournament, all it really is is a bunch of guys who like to fight. It isn't inspired by anything. A bunch of us were bragging about some of our feats (me included), and then we decided to test each other out. So we came up with the tournament. We're wearing the gloves where our fingers stick out, but have padding on the top. No attacks to the throat or balls. No breaking bones or dislocating joints. We're judging our own matches, but the rules in winning are pretty much giving up or KO.

4.Please don't mistake me for some idiot who thinks he knows what he's doing. I do know what I'm doing and I have experience. And after reading this post, please don't mistake me for some hardcore wacko martial arts wannabe. We're just having fun, and I only fight for self-defense or a proper match/sparring.

Damn that was a long post!!!!

[Dahmanegi]

Originally posted by kansetsuhazushi
So skillwise, if you were to rank me belt wise, I would be a black belt(one of the higher ranks).



I'm sorry...but this is BS. Just because you can hold your own against someone in a spar...doesn't mean you would rank as a black belt. There's a lot more to martial arts than just sparring...

[hwarang]

i agree with Dahmanegi, i find it hard to believe that if you learn some sort of fighting from jackie chan movies and that you could last a minute or two sparring against bacl belts in a class, you would be ranked black belt...

in training we spar against others in the class, depending on how much time we have the rotations usually means we spar with everyone, white belt through to black belts. when sparring with junior belts we are there to give tips and go easy - that doesn't mean because i am black belt and sparred against a junior belt, that they could be ranked black aswell...

mr miyagi would be proud of you my friend, and you didn't even sand his floors, paint his fence or wax his cars...*wax on...wax off*

anyway, hope you don't get hurt too much in your tournament thingy

[tai-gip]

i think someone can have latent natural talent but the black belt is there for the form the technique the skill with which they perform techniques not how well they fight..... it shows dedication to training and is generaly (excluding mc dojo's) well earnt and deserved..
if i was black belt in the styles i have beaten black belts in i would have a wall full of belts but i cannot perform style specific moves like they can or know the kata's they are by far superior in there art beating them does not mean i deserve a blackbelt in that art it probably just means im more interested in fighting than actual art as they are

[VillageIdiot]

I agree with the some people may have natural talent. I mean after all, someone had to invent the MA's we all practise.
But personally I still think you should do a lot of praying to God the night before the tournamnet, cause I'm thinking, it took years to develop TKD to what it is, and heck as we've all come to notice, in the WTF form of it, it's still developing. But I wish you best of luck (luck's another thing you may want to invest in). lol

[kansetsuhazushi]

I'm sorry...but this is BS. Just because you can hold your own against someone in a spar...doesn't mean you would rank as a black belt. There's a lot more to martial arts than just sparring...

I didn't mean that I can do their techniques or mean any disrespect. Many people seem to have the illusion that being a black belt makes you really strong, so I was just trying to give a general idea about how good I was. By saying that I could be a black belt I meant that I have the body, speed and power of a well trained martial artist.(this sounds like it'll bring up more heat from you guys)

i find it hard to believe that if you learn some sort of fighting from jackie chan movies

I didn't learn this from the jackie chan movie. I just watched the movie last week for the first time, so it just popped into my head as an analogue. Since I dont learn martial arts I had to come up with something. Yes, a metal pipe or something would help keep punks and bullies away, but I'm born and brought up in Japan. I find weapons dishonerable.


Now that that's out of the way....The tournament started today. I went through the first two rounds with no trouble. The first round ended with a knockout and the second round ended with the opponent giving up. I simply ended up some small injuries, and yeah....fighting against a martial art(in this case Tae Kwon Do) that I haven't gone against before is pretty fun. Your info helped some, so thanks!!!

P.S. Is it something about humans that they put down or disregard what is new or unknown to them??? I know it has happened all throughout history, and you would think that we would have learned by now. But...just wondering.

[Sonshu]

Take downs and then your lack of training will be none the worse off. Provided you know a few joint locks and Submissions otherwise you will look like 2 blokes getting friendly on the floor!

Sounds a silly idea unless its being done right but hey it should be fun.

Sonshu

[Tosh]

Originally posted by kansetsuhazushi

P.S. Is it something about humans that they put down or disregard what is new or unknown to them??? I know it has happened all throughout history, and you would think that we would have learned by now. But...just wondering.

No it's just forums like these around the world get 1 or 2 of these type of threads every month. :D

Why not video your tournament then put it on the web, or take photos?? It's hard to judge anyone's credibility over the internet.

Actions speak louder than words. Why not get some evidence rather than just continually promoting your effective style??

At the end of the day you may, or may not be who/what you claim. However, you cannot blame people for being sceptical :D

[Thomas]

I've met a few really good self taught street fighters (who could take apart many 'black belts' that I have met), and I have met some with decent skills and some lousy ones. Again, it is the individual that really matters. There are some people out there who can add techniques that they see in movies or books and incorporate them into a style and use them effectively.

Where a street fighter really gets an advantage is through lots of practice. There are people out there who have been fighting since they were very young... they are committed to fighting and to being very good at it. Some of them are very good...

Where a 'martial artist' gets an advantage is in the mental aspects and the physical conditioning. Also in the format of learning effective techniques from experienced people without having to go through the trial and error stage as much. Competitive fighters get experience and hopefully train how to convert that knowldege to the street. Some are very good...

Original poster: in my humble opinion, the reason why some of the responses were a bit sharp is by the assumption that (whether true or untrue) a person who doesn't formally train came to the Taekwondo section of a martial arts web site in order to find out how to beat up Taekwondoists in a street fight.

I hope that you do well in the tournament and I hope you pick up some good bits from the people you fought (win or lose) and most of all, I hope you continue to come to this site and SHARE what you have learned and experienced. Diverse backgrounds make the conversation more appealing.

[KickChick]

Originally posted by Thomas
Original poster: in my humble opinion, the reason why some of the responses were a bit sharp is by the assumption that (whether true or untrue) a person who doesn't formally train came to the Taekwondo section of a martial arts web site in order to find out how to beat up Taekwondoists in a street fight.


Let this be a lesson for all of us .... I've learned to distance myself from these types of questions.

Learn by doing....

I hope you do learn a thing or two ... good luck.

[Len]

In my opinion, Taekwondo is good for:

1. improved flexibility
2. learning high kicks
3. discipline
4. sportsmanship
5. respect
6. learning a little bit of the Korean culture
7. trophies
8. movies
9. breaking boards
10. a healthy cardiovascular workout

I don't think Taekwondo is good for:

1. realistic self defense
2. fighting other martial arts styles that are more real-life oriented.
3. fighting on the ground (wrestler, bjj, shoot wrestling, etc.)
4. fighting against a good in-fighter (Wing Chun Kung Fu, boxer, etc.)
5. learning weapons (there are none. So defense against weapons is limited and unrealistic when there is any).


The mistake most martial arts styles make is that they say their system has the answer to any attack: karate, taekwondo, kung fu, etc. Taekwondo is a martial art. You are supposed to fight in it. If people want to take something good for their health that doesn't involve combat or contact, they can take tae bo, yoga, tai chi, weight training, running, cycling, cardio kickboxing, etc. The fact is that martial arts means "war arts". Whatever art you take is supposed to be able to save your life if you get attacked. If it can't do what it's meant to do, then it is not effective and should be revamped so the moves become more effective and streamlined. I took Taekwondo for 10 years. It was my foundational art and I don't diss it or try to disuade people from taking it as long as they know why they are taking it and what to expect. Many people want the black belt, the trophie, the movie contract, the flashy moves, etc. in reality, the most realistic moves that work most often can look boring, simple, and ineffective. The fact is that (like I said) most martial arts styles would win if they could keep the fight within their chosen range of comfort....if you are a TKD guy and you can keep a fighter far away with kicks then your chances of winning are good. If you are a boxer and can close in on an opponent and not let him take you to the ground or push you back to kick you, your chances are good. If you are a wrestler, and can bridge the gap and take your opponent to the floor, the chances of you winning are good. The problem is that every art says it can defend itself against any attack from any range. If that was true then there wouldn't be so many styles.

[d33pthought]

The thing about taekwondo is, the beginners are pushovers (generally), but the higher belts tend to be bad and not stick with common preconceptions or stereotypes. If the guys you're going against are any good at taekwondo, you can expect to be kicked, punched, backfisted, swept, and possibly jointlocked or otherwise restrained. In other words, if these guys are any good, and you're coming up with a homebrewed style, chances are you'll lose if they do something stupid. Like drop their guard. Not too likely, though.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

i call bullsh*t. this stinks of a troll to me, and until theres some pics or video you are a liar in my books.

[carlos]

Taekwon-do has weaknesses. It cant be true!!!!!!!!!

Seriously - my opinion of it all is that "tips for being martial arts style x" count for nothing.

In a NHB match it only takes a lucky punch/kick for a KO. Your MMA fight will have rules, so the traditional TKD sparring style wil be out of the window - WTF "generally" spar hands down because the "game" is defined by rules that make head shots rare. I practice ITF style, we get punched in the face (a little too regular for my likeing, but thats my problem with my sparring ;) ), but we get punched in the face because our "game" rules allow and maybe encourage it.

What you need is to find your "game" rules and work out the best way to attack as defined in your rules. Find out what you can and can't get away with. For example - we are supposed to be touch contact - that will be touch contact where I have seen my team mates get knocked out, where I have knocked an opponent out, bust their nose/lips. We push the envelope all the time, thats what sets champions apart from competitors - the desire to push the boundaries of everything.

[kabba kick]

"...Please don't mistake me for some idiot who thinks he knows what he's doing. I do know what I'm doing and I have experience. And after reading this post, please don't mistake me for some hardcore wacko martial arts wannabe. We're just having fun, and I only fight for self-defense or a proper match/sparring."

......well you could have fooled me

[TigerAnsTKDLove]

sorry but holding your own tournament is kinda risky and very dangerous. someone can get very hurt. but whatever when your out there competeing just be careful and keep focused on your opponent. weaknesses and strengths vary on you.. the martial artist.

[KickChick]

Len ... this thread is like almost a year old!

Sheesh....


I agree with Ikken Hisatsu :D .... P-U !!! stinky troll remnants remain......

When it rains it pours in this forum!

(I though I'd locked this after my first post to this thread.... it is NOW!)