The Ultimate Fighter 4

[Apotheosis]

Figure I might as well start this up, tonight will be the debut of TUF 4.

Fighters will be UFC veterans who never quite made it-

Info on the fighters can be found here, would have copied/pasted but not sure if it is copywrited.

More Information (http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=3081)

Middleweights
Patrick Cote
Edwin Dewees
Travis Lutter
Charles McCarthy
Gideon Ray
Jorge Rivera
Pete Sell
Scott Smith

Welterweights
Mikey Burnett
Shonie Carter
Rich Clementi
Jeremy Jackson
Chris Lytle
Matt Serra
Pete Spratt
Din Thomas

So who do you got?

[Sever]

Moved to Fight Discussions
The more eagle-eyed amongst you may have noticed that there's a thread in this forum discussing the finals of this series - any discussion regarding that topic stays in that thread. Do not post spoilers in this one
There are a couple of people in this series that I think shouldn't be there in a "comeback" capacity. They're 0-1 in the UFC, have got a couple of wins since then, just give them another fight in the UFC. To be honest, there's not a fighter in this that's going to even have a really competitive title shot (which is the prize for this season), but it should at least be interesting to watch. If nothing else, I reckon Shonie Carter will provide great in-house entertainment

[gornex]

i regretably know who is in the finals. It really sucks cause when they fight i will know who wins. Well actually i only remember 1 name and the rest i have written down somewhere in a drawer. Anyway i am not going near that drawer will the season is over lol. But i am really excited for the new season!

[Sever]

i regretably know who is in the finals. It really sucks cause when they fight i will know who wins. Well actually i only remember 1 name and the rest i have written down somewhere in a drawer. Anyway i am not going near that drawer will the season is over lol. But i am really excited for the new season!Damn! My fun ruined by my own rulings :cry: You lot are so lucky I've quit drinking so I won't be rolling in drunk and telling you all who wins (not in this thread, anyway :Angel: )
Word doing the rounds from Dana White is that the second episode will feature the "bloodiest" fight yet seen in TUF or on free TV, if that's your bag

[Apotheosis]

Well that was...BORING.

Almost fell asleep watching it, Shonie is a clown but the fight was very boring and i am somewhat afraid that the "professional" attitude will be seen by a lot of viewers as a lack of character.

People like to watch guys get drunk and start trouble, I don't see that happening here.

Fight was pretty boring, Shonie won it but neither fighter seemed at all banged up. Interesting that Serra took the role of team captain/coach. Rich Clementi wasnt impressive either, overall a very poor first fight.

[Wolf]

I will say this about the fight. Shonie showed that experience DOES matter. He stayed composed during submission attempts and slipped out. Abover everything else, he actually listened to what his corner was saying. That's something every season has had trouble with. I think now that he is training with fighters his level and better he'll improve drastically for the semi. As for Clementi, he's got talent, but he sorely underestimated Carter.

[Ular Sawa]

[QUOTE=Apotheosis]Well that was...BORING.
People like to watch guys get drunk and start trouble, I don't see that happening here.QUOTE]

The immature behavior of Season 3 got old pretty quick. It might be a draw for younger viewers and those who enjoy watching daytime television. It's actually refreshing to see some guys who are a bit more professional. Hopefully, they'll spend more time showing what happens in the gym and less of what happens in the house. The fight may not have been the most exciting but it wasn't the most boring either.

[Kwajman]

Shonie was dressed like either a male hooker or a pimp last night.....sheesh.

[Sever]

*psst* You don't need spoiler tags in this thread, guys ;)

[Apotheosis]

*psst* You don't need spoiler tags in this thread, guys ;)


Really? Sounds good to me.

[Apotheosis]

[QUOTE=Apotheosis]Well that was...BORING.
People like to watch guys get drunk and start trouble, I don't see that happening here.QUOTE]

The immature behavior of Season 3 got old pretty quick. It might be a draw for younger viewers and those who enjoy watching daytime television. It's actually refreshing to see some guys who are a bit more professional. Hopefully, they'll spend more time showing what happens in the gym and less of what happens in the house. The fight may not have been the most exciting but it wasn't the most boring either.


I agree with you, unfortunately if you look at the shows Americans like, they happen to be the ones filled with stupid immature drama.

[Sever]

Really? Sounds good to me.This isn't an event, it's a weekly TV show. Aside from the final, there's no need for tags since otherwise you'd have to use them for every single post in this thread. Such a rule would be stupid and practically unenforcable - ie, I don't want to have to dig through everyone's posts putting spoiler tags in

[Thomas]

I really liked the first episode and I think it'll be the best season yet. I realy like the professional attitude and I like that there aren't "challenges" or "in house drama" and such. I like seeing a bit of the training and discussions andf then I relaly like how they showed the first two fighters backgrounds in clips from actual matches. Had me salivating for the fight. As for the fight - I thought it was a great "free" show and really enjoyed it.

(I also loved the Ultimate Fight Night matches that preceeded it!)

I think this show can do quite a bit for building up the UFC fighters and having them taken more seriously when they are on UFN or PPVs.

[Sever]

I enjoyed it too, and actually thought the fight was pretty good. Matt Serra particularly impressed me with his cornering abilities - he's exactly the kind of guy you'd want in your corner; nice and clear instructions, loud, says your name a lot so you know he's talking to you and keeps you calm with what he says ("you've been here before" etc). The only problem I see with this series is that you know that there is no chance of them winning their title shot - three of the middleweights lost to Chris Leben, they ain't taking Franklin

[Nevada_MO_Guy]

I watched the first one last night on my DVR. Unfortunately, Dish didn't have the timing down right so I missed the last 6 minutes....ahhhh.

Thanks Apotheosis for posting who one....I thought it was going to be him.

One thing that seem a bit "funny" for professional fighters is, I think, after round one....that one guy said the other guy was "slimy" and wanted the ref to towel him off.

[Apotheosis]

I enjoyed it too, and actually thought the fight was pretty good. Matt Serra particularly impressed me with his cornering abilities - he's exactly the kind of guy you'd want in your corner; nice and clear instructions, loud, says your name a lot so you know he's talking to you and keeps you calm with what he says ("you've been here before" etc). The only problem I see with this series is that you know that there is no chance of them winning their title shot - three of the middleweights lost to Chris Leben, they ain't taking Franklin

I think we may be surprised by their improvement, although I do agree that the odds they will come out of the house actual contenders and not just cans are fairly small.

[Apotheosis]

I watched the first one last night on my DVR. Unfortunately, Dish didn't have the timing down right so I missed the last 6 minutes....ahhhh.

Thanks Apotheosis for posting who one....I thought it was going to be him.

One thing that seem a bit "funny" for professional fighters is, I think, after round one....that one guy said the other guy was "slimy" and wanted the ref to towel him off.

No matter how professional a group is, there will always be some people who complain.

He may have had a valid complaint, as fighters are starting to grease themselves up quite a bit(Diego for example).

[jsmith]

Shonie was dressed like either a male hooker or a pimp last night.....sheesh.Anyone notice he seemed a little "excited" below the belt during the weigh in. :eek:
It's an image I'm trying to delete from my head. Please, no more speedos!

[Apotheosis]

I've heard that all over the internet, but honestly I can't remember that.

And I will NOT be going back to double check.

[Sever]

I've heard that all over the internet, but honestly I can't remember that.

And I will NOT be going back to double check.He dost protest too much. He looked. We all know it dude, just admit it. You looked at Shonie's speedo-bump. You'll feel better when you admit it, seriously. We're all here for you :Angel:

[Apotheosis]

Oh, I saw it I'm just not sure if it was alive and well.

[fire cobra]

i just watched the first episode and enjoyed it,carter is a character and serra a leader for sure,makes for good viewing potential(exept for shonnies speedos!).serra was a good corner man but i think the old saying "you cant teach a old dog new tricks" may of come into play there as shonnie took hardly any notice of what matt was shouting!. looking forward to seeing the next episode :)

[bujingodai]

I had a great time with this one.
I have to agree that the fight wasn't amazing but it didn't suck either. Carter has never been a big one for me, but IO was impressed with his escapes.
The lack of drama is good, mind you maybe a little thrown in there for interest sake. Possibly that is coming up.
Serra impressed the hell out of me. A leader for sure.

[Apotheosis]

Source (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2520&zoneid=13)

Number of viewers watching TUF 4 were down for the premiere by .3 from the record of 2.0 set on the TUF 3 premiere.

[Apotheosis]

A good second fight, Edwin Deweese vs Gideon Raye (spelling?).

Gideon came out swinging but Edwin was able to get a takedown and had some good ground an pound going on up until Gideon landed a nasty elbow from the bottom. Cut Edwin on the top of his head, they had the doctors check it out and he was alright.

Edwin managed to keep Gideon on the bottom for most of the fight, bled all over the ring and didn't do too much after he got cut(I loved when he covered the cut with one glove and landed some elbows with his other arm) but he did more than Gideon.

I thought Edwin won both rounds, but the Judges thought it wa sa draw so they went to round 3. Gideon went for a cool kick but got taken down and Edwin laid on him for nearly for out of the 5 minutes. Gideon swept him but it was too little, too late.

Edwin won despite his attempts to cover the entire mat in blood.

[Ular Sawa]

Agreed. I thought Edwin took both rounds. I was wondering if the Niagra Falls situation might somehow influence the judges in that redards. I think it did.

I do enjoy the "flashback fight" sequences where the fighters explain why they lost their previous UFC encounters. However, Gideon Ray thinking his fight against Mike Swick was stopped too soon bordelines between fantasy & lunacy.

[Apotheosis]

This week's show is now over, with Pete Spratt getting beat very quickly by Chris Lytle.

Anyone else think the production crew is grasping at straws for drama? They hyped up all week a "showdown" bewteen Matt Serra and a new coach and it turns out to be very little- One guy who dislikes Royce correctly noting that Hughes destroyed him while another guy who loved Royce got offended. I actually agree with Laimon(the new grappling coach who Serra dislikes) that Royce got destroyed, I also agree with him as far as Rickson goes that his reputation is all hype.(somehow the two brought his name up during a discussion with Serra Rickson is supposed to be better than Royce and Laimon saying thats all hearsay and he would love to find out first hand).

It was interesting to see the fighters history in the UFC, with Chris Lytle getting some wins and some losses to big time names- Great decision loss to Robbie Lawler, dominated by Karo but made it to decision, and got cut by Joe Riggs.

Pete Spratt is even more interesting, Dana even offered him a tittle shot against Hughes in the past!!!

He beat Zack Light by submission, loss to Carlos Newton shortly after he lost his belt, Robbie Lawler by verbal submission(wicked leg kicks), after this fight he got a title shot but turned it down because he wasn't "ready" and the UFC kind of forgot about him. He came back for Ultimate Fight Night 1 where he lost to Koscheck by rear naked choke.

The fight between Lytle and Spratt started with the two feeling each other out for 10-15 seconds before Lytle rushed Spratt and backed him up against the cage. He gut a takedown and a front guillotine which ended the fight after maybe 2 minutes(?). Interesting end to a fight between two great strikers, dissapointed Spratt didn't do better but he was dissapointed and very angry as well.

[Rapid]

Thanks alot for that spoiler, it doesnt air on UK tv till the 3rd, it aires every sunday night, plz dont post the results before then cos now youve ruined an episode

[Apotheosis]

Uh...Sever specifically mentioned spoiler tags are not needed in this topic....

The whole topic would have to be in spoiler tags...

Anyways sorry the episode was ruined for you.

[Sever]

Thanks alot for that spoiler, it doesnt air on UK tv till the 3rd, it aires every sunday night, plz dont post the results before then cos now youve ruined an episodeSorry man, but me making everyone use spoiler tags for a weekly TV show would just be a nightmare; to be honest it'd be next to unenforcable. Maybe just avoid this thread between Friday and Sunday, next week? Sorry again :)

[Ular Sawa]

Back to the post by Apotheosis, it does seem like they're grasping at straws for drama. One thing I don't much care for is we have seen very little of Randy & GSP so far. Presumably, it's because of the editing but the coach-fighter interaction is something from the previous seasons that was interesting. Even though they have changed up the format with neither Randy or GSP assigned to a team, there has to be something going on with the fighters.

[Rapid]

Thats ok,my fault really for coming on this thread, ill avoid it from fri till sun in the future

[Apotheosis]

So on this weeks episode a fighter gets kicked off , and everyone gets staph.

Someone apparently brought it to the show(according to Dana), and a lot of the fighters broke out with staph. We also learn Jeremy Jackson is homeless, has lived in the trunk of his car for 6 months and that he is terrible with both money and women. We learn this from a conversation he has with Din Thomas, and Din accurately brings up the fact that Jeremy seems to blame his money troubles on the women in his life, even though it has happened with multiple women and Din points out Jeremy is likely the cause of his own money problems. We also learn he has a young son who lives with his mother, and that Jeremy wants to help him out.

Another side story, a fighter Scott Smith has a wicked case of gas and seems to enjoy "cutting the cheese" in front of other fighters faces.

GSP took Team No Love(maybe both teams?) to the local YMCA to do some training in the pool which I have a feeling was just a back-up while the regular gym was cleaned. While at the pool, Jeremy Jackson met a female lifeguard(10 mins after telling us women are the root of all of his problems) and he draws her a map to the house and tells her to meet him at midnight.(where was everyone else while this was going on? You would think a cameraman/producer/fighter would have noticed him drawing the map and making the plans). So midnight rolls around and he jumps the fence of the house to meet the lifeguard, he of course and Dana calls to let everyone know he is coming. This leads to some absolutely hilarious comments from Matt Serra about the event, although I imagine some of the laughter stemmed from everyone being nervous.

Dana showed up, was surprisingly calm and gave a quick speech about this being the chance of a lifetime and then without even mentioning his name he told Jeremy to "Pack your bags, your going home" and then walked out with Randy C. He packs his bags, mentions he is not sure where he is going since he has nowhere to live and that he will likely find a job in a gas station. After he leaves, all of the other fighters make comments about the lifeguard being a 50k piece of (fill in the blank).

Now that all the drama is over, we learn that Cote will not be fighting as was planned due to a staph infection. Instead Scott Smith will be fighting Travis Lutter.

Travis Lutter is a black belt in JJ and is 1-2 in the UFc with a big KO win over Marvin Eastman who had a win over Rampage Jackson and then a loss to Matt Lindland via guillotine(Matt is a silver medalist in Greco Roman from the 2000 Olympics) and a unanimous decision loss to his training parter Trevor Prangly.

Scott Smith is 0-1 in the UFC with his only loss coming from David Terrel in a crappy manner. Terrel had him against the fence, the ref clearly called for a break(they showed the video) and Smith relaxed. Terrell comtinued, took him down and got a rear naked choke. Smith popped right up and was understandingly angry since the ref called for a break, but Terrell ignored it and then the ref just went along with it. In other words Smith got screwed, which Dana acknowledged.

On to the fight, Smith wants to defend the takedown while Travis wants to get it. The fight starts, Travis almsot immediatley goes for the takedown but Smith defends and is able to keep his feet although giving up his back. Just a matter of time now, and Travis takes him down and gets a rear naked choke in less than two minutes. The first loss Team Mojo suffered so we shall see how Team No Love does with the "HAMMA"

Team No Love will also be getting one of their MW's bakc, I think Pete Spratt and Rich Celementi will toss a coin to see who gets to replace Jeremy.

[Apotheosis]

Proof the ratings for TUF 4 are dropping- Compare this thread to last years....

Anyways on this weeks episode, Shonie annoys everyone including me the viewer.

Pete Spratt wins the coin toss so he is the guy who gets to come back, however he almost backs out and allow Rich to take his place. However with a lot of wavering he decides to come back and take Jeremy's place. They announce the fight, and mess with Serra by calling him out then saying he will be fighting next week. Instead Mikey Burnett is going to fight Din Thomas, leaving Matt Serra to fight Pete Spratt.

Both fighters are impressive, Dana thinks very highly of Din and seems to like Mikey as well.

The fight starts out, Mikey is more aggressive looking to bang while Din is being evasive...Din tries for a takedown but Mikey sprawls into his guard, DIn goes for a triangle choke(i think) and Mikey powers out bringing the fight back to their feet. Din lands a nice jab stunning Mikey and goes for a takedown, again Mikey sprawls and lands in his guard. Din goes for a triangle almost immediately and Mikey tries to slam him out of it...Instead he allowed Din to tighten it up and Mikey tapped out in the first round due to triangle choke.

Strangely enough, they didn't show any of his teammates talking to Mikey in the lockerroom, just Couture talking to him. Mikey leaves the building again without teammates and was met by Dana who essentially told him that he still has a place in the UFC. He then got into the van, again seemingly alone, and drove off....

Anyone know why his teammates were absent?

[bujingodai]

I too am getting pretty annoyed with Shonie the pimp.

I was a little disappointed with the fight last night, ended pretty fast and I did expect a bit more from Mikey but Din is a pretty excellent fighter and I'm not the one in the ring so well.

Too bad the threads interest seems dropping. I enjoy the series. But they are seeming to lack some zest with this particular season. Whether that is arrogance becuase these guys have done it already to not enough gimmiks

I didn't really mind the challenges ala survivor they used to do. What I hated was the obnoxious xcience and speed stick ads, and how they got worked into every conversation.

[bcullen]

Proof the ratings for TUF 4 are dropping- Compare this thread to last years.

I'm still watching but something is different. I'm not sure what it is, there's something missing from this season. Maybe it's the fact that they keep showing old stock footage rather then what they're doing now.

It's the interactions that happen at the house and the gym that help the viewer get to know the fighter. Seeing bits and pieces of old fights doesn't really give you much about them as a fighter or as a person.

[Sever]

If I'm honest, this season's just not grabbing me as much as last series. It's the curse of the even numbers (season 2 stank too). I tend to just tune in for the fights which pretty much always go exactly as I expect them to (with the exception of the blood-fest in the second episode).
I dislike the current team format. With each previous series, the teams have had a focal point in the form of a coach that's given an insight into how the top UFC fighters train themselves and given a bit of an interesting team rivalry. This series, it seems a lot more fragmented and reaching for drama from the house, rather than showing what I personally want to see - these guys training and preparing for their fights. Plus, come on, they've got Randy Couture and Georges St Pierre in there and they can only find thirty seconds of air time for them per episode?!

[bcullen]

If I'm honest, this season's just not grabbing me as much as last series. It's the curse of the even numbers (season 2 stank too). I tend to just tune in for the fights which pretty much always go exactly as I expect them to (with the exception of the blood-fest in the second episode).
I dislike the current team format. With each previous series, the teams have had a focal point in the form of a coach that's given an insight into how the top UFC fighters train themselves and given a bit of an interesting team rivalry. This series, it seems a lot more fragmented and reaching for drama from the house, rather than showing what I personally want to see - these guys training and preparing for their fights. Plus, come on, they've got Randy Couture and Georges St Pierre in there and they can only find thirty seconds of air time for them per episode?!

That's it! That's what's missing! The interaction with the coaches! They have some really good people coaching why only use them for 30 seconds an episode? I'd love to hear what advise GSP or Randy has for the fighters.

[Apotheosis]

I'm not sure if it is the lack of coaches air time, but there is something missing.

It is plain boring except for the weekly fight and their past fights(I enjoy watching them).

People like drama, that's why there are shows like the Real World, Big Brother etc.. and this season lacks drama.

It is basically 50 minutes of SHonie acting like a child and other people complaining about it, its just plain boring and they need to change it up somehow. They are obviously looking for drama, but they just can't find any.

Seriously when your big drama is someone throwing water bottles in the pool...you are grasping for straws.

[Linguo]

I'm not sure if it is the lack of coaches air time, but there is something missing.

It is plain boring except for the weekly fight and their past fights(I enjoy watching them).

People like drama, that's why there are shows like the Real World, Big Brother etc.. and this season lacks drama.

That about sums it up. People complain about the in-house drama, but its also one of the biggest things that keeps us there. Who here wasn't just waiting to see that fight between Leben and Koscheck after what transpired? Sure, the fight was pretty lackluster, but the drama made you want to watch it.

Since there is an absence of drama, they should do more with the human element. I thought the Jeremy Jackson episode was pretty compelling, at least to hear his story. I wish they would profile the fighters a little more, give us an idea of who these people are, as opposed to relying on the tension in the house. Build these people up for us, especially if they intend to bring them back in the future.

[Apotheosis]

It just keeps getting worst, I didn't even watch the show aside from a few minutes of the fight, which went a boring 3 rounds. Pete Sell beat Mcarthy and I nearly feel asleep.

The producers need to do something or they might as well cut the whole show out and just show a fight every thursday.

[Thomas]

The producers need to do something or they might as well cut the whole show out and just show a fight every thursday.
That's not a bad idea... I would really like a 1 hour show that is set up to give new guys a tryout (recruit from smaller venues), prod experienced guys back to a beter level, and have a good main event week to week. Don't hit me for saying this, but take a look at the Pro-wrestling scene... where they have weekly shows that do this, they can build up new guys, have a strong midcard and oput on a good main event here and there, as well as fill in time with background and other things. (Or, even along the lines of Friday Night Boxing...)

[Rapid]

This episode Cote beats Riviera in a 2 round decision, possibly the best fight yet as it was pretty much to and fro the whole fight, i thought riviera would strike with him but he didnt which dissapointed me, Cote's punches looked a bit loopy and sloppy aswell, anyhow cant wait for the semis cos i think theres gunna be some great fights there, Shonie is gunna get his ass whooped by whoever he fights though.

[Rapid]

Will the middleweight winner of TUF be fighting Anderson Silva, i guess so, anyone who knows more about this tell me plz

[Hannibal]

Am I the only one actually enjoying it? It is not as good as the other seasons but is still great TV.

I nearly wet myself laughing at Randy's face when Matt told him about Rich Franklin's "advice"!

This week has GOT to be good when Matt faces Shonie - can't wait!!

[BigRed389]

Yeah I'm actually enjoying it too. There've been some really stupid days, but in general it's been pretty good so far.

Odds are we will see some editing to reflect that Anderson Silva is the new champ.

Not like any of those guys will be beating Anderson Silva though.

[bcullen]

This week has GOT to be good when Matt faces Shonie - can't wait!!

I'm hoping for it to be Matt Cerra beats Shonie Carter by spinning backfist KO, just for the sheer irony of it. :D

[Ridge]

Odds are we will see some editing to reflect that Anderson Silva is the new champ.

Hasn't everything other then the finale already been taped though?

I nearly wet myself laughing at Randy's face when Matt told him about Rich Franklin's "advice"!

That "advice" was one of my favorite moments of the season.

[Sever]

Hasn't everything other then the finale already been taped though?Editing is done in post-production. It's the process by which all the footage used is strung together by some poor monkey stuck in a dark, stinky editing suite. You can edit pretty much up to the last minute before it goes to air, so don't be surprised to see Dana White cropping up talking about how Franklin's not the champion but at the time of shooting he was