Moving towards music in Silat

[Narrue]

Moving towards music in Silat or more specifically Kembangan, is there a Science behind it?
I’m talking about individual instruments and how the predominance of certain instruments and tones may result in a corresponding change in movement and mood.

As an example consider the following:

1 Music consisting largely of flute and stringed instruments e.g. Kecapi-Suling.

2 Music consisting largely of percussion instruments, drum and gongs.


Would there be a difference in the way one should move or the aspects of silat that should be displayed depending on the music played and what are the differences lightly to be?

[AnakMurid]

Please forgive me if this is nonsense rambling. I am just a baby exploring outside my crib.

I like this thread, its interesting, especially for those of us who may have a background in dance or music. I don't know if there is any science, but a lot of research into the emssion of alpha or beta waves in the brain in response to sound, breath, and music has been carried out.

I notice a definite inner shift in response to the music. If I play Gamelan Degung (Sundanese gamelan with suling) the effect is gentle, healing, soothing and prayerful feeling in the kembangan. It is almost like a gentle self hypnosis. I find certain phrasings of the suling evoke imagintive sense of creeping vines within.

If I play to Malaysian "Silat music" (drum, gong, serunai) the feeling is more electric, and the sparks fly. The serunai is instrumental (ha-ha) in stimulating this shift. The movement feels overtly serpentine, and powerful. I notice the potential energy stored in the coils prior to unleashing, then once unleashed, like sailing over the crest of a hill, load up another coil for the next one. I notice I am also more likely to adopt lower postures. In this state, I should be more observant as stuff tends to just pop out and it's good to have awareness so I can consistently have access to these movements in the future.

With both styles of music, I allow my feet to move in response to the rhythm of the gong, and or drum and play percussion with my feet and body to get a feel for "hitting".

I find that Balinese gamelan or gamelan from Lombok is too frantic, and there is a tendency for me to let go too much so that I am seduced into not retaining some self control.

I think its also possible that there may be some accidental operant conditioning mechnism involved where the music and the satisfying feeling created by the inner state (when you are in the kembangan zone) combine to create a powerful positive reinforemcent. Anyone else agree that Kembangan is addictive?

I think the risk with kembangan and music, is that you could get dependent on the music as a stimulus (thus the inspiration to move may become tricky to find without it), so it would be good to try it with and without, and may be play with religious music, rock, classical, etc. It could be worth experimenting with operant condition positive reinforcement extinction schedules with the music and kembangan and see what happens.

I think these are just states that we choose in response to the music. The music acts like a cue, in the way that tango, salsa, rumba, cha-cha signal to a dancer what the dance is and how to dance with it. I am assuming here that the dance (kembangan and latin) is improvised, not choreographed. (I guess you can even apply this to heavy metal in a mosh pit and head-kembanging?!)

Ultimately though, my kembangan is personal. Its a form of self expression (interpretaion of it may or may not reveal a combative nature) and the music is helpful as it allows me to sidestep my conscious mind and be moved by the heart. Provided I give myself permission, of course; I give myself UP to move.

Could be that all of the above exists in my imagination alone.

[Narrue]

Hi AnakMurid

Very interesting, many of your thoughts on this subject are similar to mine. Music certainly has an effect on the body on an emotional level, anyone who doubts this can try watching a horror or action movie with the sound off, you will find that much of the horror or action evaporates.

I know what you mean by some Balinese music being too frantic. To my ears some of it sounds like rapid gun fire, I have no idea how to physically move to such music!

If I’m not mistaking the softer Kecapi suling is a relatively recent development, does this mean that previously the music was much more frantic (at least to the western ear)?

Doing kembangan to alternative music, now that’s interesting. I wonder what House, Techno or jazz Kembangan would look like :D
I do believe however that it’s possible to do a kembangan without physically moving your body i.e. movement from inside without any visible movement outside.

It has been found that in shamanic cultures rhythmical drum music was and still is used as a tool to shift the state of mind which often results in trance.

I feel that during gong & drum music a person is more lightly to move in a rhythmical or explosive manner this may be manifested in a predominance of striking or foot work, moving in a rapid manner.

During flute & string music I feel that it will produce movements which have a soft emotional or spiritual nature. This may be manifested in postures and movements which are exaggerated in terms of emotion i.e. symbolism. Also the awareness of breathing and therefore tenaga dalam is predominant during such music.

I have developed my own personal way of interpreting music and motion which relates to the four elements, ways of moving (line, zigzag, curve and spiral) and how these relate to music and the body.

It would be interesting to know however if any kembangan practitioners have developed a system of understanding music with relation to silat movements.


Narrue

[Pekir]

Hi AnakMurid


Doing kembangan to alternative music, now that’s interesting. I wonder what House, Techno or jazz Kembangan would look like :D
I do believe however that it’s possible to do a kembangan without physically moving your body i.e. movement from inside without any visible movement outside.

Narrue

Narrue,

We do not use kembangan in our silat so I can't really judge from a personal perspective. I can imagine though that it might help out some of my students with moving more fluent and flexible.

I've seen some pergeruan do their langkah using modern music and flashy lights though. To me this is a whole different ball game and has little to do with silat and the kembangan as I've always understood. Silat already has with to many people a reference to dancing gracefully more than a fighting art. This 'disco interpretation', but that's probably a very personal point of view, isn't helping. Maybe I'm to much a traditionalist to appreciate it :)

Pekir

[Narrue]

Narrue,

Silat already has with to many people a reference to dancing gracefully more than a fighting art.

Pekir

Yes, look what has happened to tai chi, it was once a martial art. This is what happens when the health or aesthetic side is emphasized over the martial side, things get lost!

The reverse of this however is also just as bad i.e. the philosophical and spiritual teachings being lost so the art becomes purely physical. The result is strategy and mechanics i.e. the art loses its soul.

[rizal]

same as Pekir. Although in the case of two arts I learned, Silek Tuo and Pauh, it require me to learn some Minangkabau dance, it is completely separate from martial arts training.
but on the other hand, I don't see anything wrong if you want to do kembangan with modern music. One of martial arts components is rhythm so as a training aid music helps.
although i find using modern music makes the movement a little bit weird. For now I stick to my Minangkabau musics.

[AnakMurid]

Hi Narrue

It does seem we share some common experience with music. I find that the that the Arabic phrygian modes you can hear in Malaysian Silat music in the serunai inspires zig-zag type movents, and more explosive movement with the simple and very pronounced drum and gong. Here I find everything feels more aggressive, from the toes to the top of the head and the finger tips.

Do you have any gamelan degung? I find the gentle gong and flute together inspire gentle softer rounded movements inpired by nature, such as creeping vines, flowers opening etc. I can move slowly, quickly and lightly, but still have the feeling of power in movement suggestive of striking, even though it is very soft.

I have not tried kembagan with kecapi suling, I prefer to reserve this music for meditation, along with spanish choral music, and medieval choral music, and Javanese gamelan (from the courts and from west Java).

I think it is an area that deserves exploration. There is a spiritual tradition in each of the orthodox religions that uses music to access the heart, from the whirling dervish of the sufi to the gregorian chant of monk, etc. Any study into gamelan music reveals certain music is reserved for certain functions, music for harvest, for feast, for ancestors, for funerals, for weddings, for fighting (before during and after), music as offering to Gods. Its a fascinating area.

Absolutely agree with you about doing kembangan internally. How else does one get to develop when caught up in busy urban living, when the opportunity to train the body can be limited. Accessing the kinaesthetic memory and using this imagintively is still training in my lowly opinion. In fact you can train anything in this way. Something to do with neuro peptides and mirror neurons, this kind of training is effective even though we don't always need to engage the physical, as long as we have an internal reference to go from, and faith that it works. Modern science is only just begining to explore the mechanism behind it (mainly in competition sports).

[Narrue]

Do you have any gamelan degung? I find the gentle gong and flute together inspire gentle softer rounded movements inpired by nature, such as creeping vines, flowers opening etc. I can move slowly, quickly and lightly, but still have the feeling of power in movement suggestive of striking, even though it is very soft

I’m not an expert on Indonesian music so I often hear a track and know the sound but not the name, I have a CD which has a track similar to the first one on this site: http://www.btinternet.com/~m.r.l.clayton/sekar/audio.htm

Any study into gamelan music reveals certain music is reserved for certain functions, music for harvest, for feast, for ancestors, for funerals, for weddings, for fighting (before during and after), music as offering to Gods. Its a fascinating area.

I’m not sure if ive ever heard music designed for fighting, perhaps I have but just didn’t realize it.
Do you know what the name of this is? I would like to hear it, if my understanding is correct it will have a predominance of percussion,particularly metallic ie gong etc


Absolutely agree with you about doing kembangan internally. How else does one get to develop when caught up in busy urban living, when the opportunity to train the body can be limited. Accessing the kinaesthetic memory and using this imagintively is still training in my lowly opinion. In fact you can train anything in this way. Something to do with neuro peptides and mirror neurons, this kind of training is effective even though we don't always need to engage the physical, as long as we have an internal reference to go from, and faith that it works. Modern science is only just begining to explore the mechanism behind it (mainly in competition sports).

Well I have no idea what neuro peptides and mirror neurons are so im just going to stick to the old saying “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he”. If you stop in a busy street and just observe how people walk you can see the truth in this. The way a person thinks will affect their walk. You have the bad boy walk, you have the bouncing on air walk, you have the world is on my shoulders walk, you have the I’m important get out of my way walk, you have the deep thought walk, the look at me walk, the macho walk etc etc…..everyone is busy walking their thoughts!
I wonder what walk I have :D

In the same manner I think true Kembangan is inside, kembangan starts inside and finally we see it outside, it is in reality all internal. Everybody already has Kembangan, it’s your thoughts, knowledge and emotions.

[tellner]

Guru Plinck is a very good musician (Blues Guitar) and uses musical expressions a lot when he's teaching timing. Sometimes when students are having trouble or losing their way during practice I'll get out a doumbek or jembe and give them the rhythm or speed up or slow things down if they're going to slow or too fast. Sometimes there's a radio on during class, and everyone unconsciously takes its lead for the tempo. OK, the really clever ones hear it and work around it to get an advantage over the rest of us :)

[AnakMurid]

Hi Narrue

I agree with you one hundred percent.

For exploring kembangan with Malay music, you could try to get hold of the following:
Musik Tarian Malaysia vol 3 & 5 (various performers), both of these have examples of Silat (some say kendang silat) and Terinai music, gong, drum and serunai.
Bulan Dagoan by Gentra Pasundan, this is gamelan degung, gong and flute, the degung scale is also used in kecapi suling from Sunda, which you already are familiar with.
Be Not Afraid to Strike The Gong - music of Lombok, this has gamelan for all occasion including the Sasak Silat using tongket, which I guess you could liken to Kali duelling, but with a shield as well. This has 3 stages, preparing the combatants, agreeing they are fit to fight, then the fight. I can't remember what this music is called.
Pays Sunda (I am sorry I can't remember the name of the album), more gamelan degung.
Sunda-Bali by Samba Sunda, as the title suggests, a contemporary hybrid of Sundanese and Balinese gamelan, but with flute, rebab, viola, serunai and more. The last track is especially nice for kembangan. Very powerful, moving yet peaceful.
I also like to play kembangan with Jaipong. I like the drama in the Jaipongan.
A first point of contact to obtain this music is Paul Fisher: www.farsidemusic.com.
The Malaysian Silat music can take months to order, but everything else he usually has in stock.
I have a field recording of some Silat music that has a "party" like feel to it, but I am not so sure where you could get this from.

All of this music has a different feel to it, and its great to experiment with the pallet and paint with different shades and colours, in response to the music.

Enjoy your exploration.

[Narrue]

Hi AnakMurid

Thanks for the info, certainly looks like you know your music!

[AnakMurid]

I am just learning about it.

[Rebo Paing]

Well I have no idea what neuro peptides and mirror neurons are so im just going to stick to the old saying “As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he”. If you stop in a busy street and just observe how people walk you can see the truth in this. The way a person thinks will affect their walk. You have the bad boy walk, you have the bouncing on air walk, you have the world is on my shoulders walk, you have the I’m important get out of my way walk, you have the deep thought walk, the look at me walk, the macho walk etc etc…..everyone is busy walking their thoughts!
I wonder what walk I have :D

Rahayu Narrue, we're not so different after all! I have no idea about Qi and you have no idea about neuropeptides ... but we both know how the mind influences the body ... just like sticking to body knowledge ;) . BTW you hit the nail on the head.


In the same manner I think true Kembangan is inside, kembangan starts inside and finally we see it outside, it is in reality all internal. Everybody already has Kembangan, it’s your thoughts, knowledge and emotions.

Very true.

Salam

P.S. The kendang too can be heard in the head. But now I'm thinking that I might introduce the didgeridoo ... which is indeed a percussive instrument.

[asli]

basic instrument in some/most silat music..gendang anak, gendang ibu and serunai..most 'traditional' gelanggangs still use music in their system..i do believe those music really affect silat players' movements in gelanggang..many wars ago, drums/gendang was also used in battlefield. why?? :rolleyes:

[Kiai Carita]

basic instrument in some/most silat music..gendang anak, gendang ibu and serunai..most 'traditional' gelanggangs still use music in their system..i do believe those music really affect silat players' movements in gelanggang..many wars ago, drums/gendang was also used in battlefield. why?? :rolleyes:

Warm salaams, Asli

Interesting to trace the origin of these instruments too. I would guess the serunai / tarompet is the newest addition while the double sided drums and the kenong-kempul-gong would be the earlier instruments that came from further West brought to some areas by the Muslims and to others by the White Man.

Music is an art of rythm, melody and harmony which is also (I have been told) a basic ingredient of good silat. I have been experimenting since last year with live music and find it much more satisfying, community-wise especially. But flowing through silat forms also creates 'music' through the 'rasa'. A live group of musicians can respond to the players 'rasa' and a whole new collective 'rasa' emerges and when it flows and goes on it gives you a good workout.

As for the gamelan orchestra I find that it is very much like the Jawa society in which it can accept any other new character as long as it either a) effortlesly fits in, or b) if it can't immediately fit in, then it must be sembada (take responsibility for actions in a handsome way) until the whole shifts to accomodate it. People like the late Sunarti, or bands like Kelompok Kampungan since the early 1970s were making music with gamelan and electric guitars. Now Jadug and Emha still do the same and are hugely popular nationally just like our Sekar Gedhogan is popular every Sunday evening in the Stables Market.

Warm salaams to all,
B

[Narrue]

i do believe those music really affect silat players' movements in gelanggang..many wars ago, drums/gendang was also used in battlefield. why?? :rolleyes:


There are many cultures which use drums in battle and there are two reasons for doing so:

1 Every battle is planed and strategy’s are devised as how, when and where to attack.
There are two ways to communicate to your warriors, visual and audible signals.
A visual signal may be a flag/banner whilst an audible signal could be a battle cry, trumpet or drum sounding.
The beat of the drum also synchronises the movement of your army so that they move as one and not individuals acting in a random manner.

2 It was common in ancient times to enter a battle in a state of trance. The warriors would chant, and drum music to invoke fear into their enemy’s and work up the spirits of their warriors to enter battle. The ground would come alive with the rumble and battle cries, the atmosphere electric. If you were present your hair would stand on end, you know its time to act!

[asli]

It was common in ancient times to enter a battle in a state of trance. The warriors would chant, and drum music to invoke fear into their enemy’s and work up the spirits of their warriors to enter battle. The ground would come alive with the rumble and battle cries, the atmosphere electric. If you were present your hair would stand on end, you know its time to act! now, there's a little resemblence between pesilat, silat and music :rolleyes: