Preferred self defense fighting stance

[ladyhawk]

After reading Melanie's article on self defense (which I enjoyed) I thought I would start a thread and see what everyone's preferences in self defense fighting stances were.

I prefer an oblique Sho Zenkutsu Dachi (short front stance) or what I call a Seisan stance.
In a normal Seisan stance legs are shoulder width apart, both feet facing forward and the toes of the back foot line up with the heel of the front foot.

My preferred fighting stance would be to make this oblique by turning at a 45 degree angle and sliding my back foot back slightly for better stability.

This stance can be easily dropped into while appearing casual. Having an open hand guard up does not appear threatening.
You're ready to Rock and Roll just in case attempts to handle a situation verbally fail.

If you drop into an aggressive stance with fists raised, then you just committed yourself to the fight.

Thoughts, ideas or opinions anyone?

[Kosokun]

No stance. Just move naturally. That's my preference.

Rob

[ladyhawk]

Rob,
Do you do anything during a verbal confrontation to give yourself an advantage if it were to get physical?

[Kosokun]

Originally posted by ladyhawk
Rob,
Do you do anything during a verbal confrontation to give yourself an advantage if it were to get physical?

Despite my online persona, I'm actually quite an amiable guy. I don't get into verbal confrontations that could get physical. Also I don't frequent pubs or other places where I might get into them. I lead a rather boring life. I like it that way.

Nonetheless, I have been hassled in Bezerkely, CA and in Washington DC. (walked the wrong way around the block. DC's that way.)

*** Warning Anecdote****

This is what I did. I maintained a reasonable distance from my antagonist and assumed a natural stance with my hands up and open. It wasn't something that looked like a combative stance, but rather, more like someone trying to de escalate the situation. Palms out, and open, fists not clenched. I asserted my boundries. "Sir, Do not come closer! Please keep your distance!"

Sadly, this tactic didn't work. And, what did was telling the guy in a quiet, almost gleeful manner, that he had better stop with this posturing and let's get on with it, because I was going to take particular glee in ripping his heart out and feeding it, still beating, to him as he lost consciousness.

Funny, *that* is what worked. :-( They left me alone.

You see, I'm big and fit. And I suppose, that once I've decided that I'm not going to be nice any more, there must be something that comes across my face, that I've never seen (no mirrors handy at those times) that makes even these whackos understand that there are better things to do than to continue to mess with me.

I should note, that I was standing in such a manner so as to not give these guys a clear shot at me, while I had a clean line on them. For them to have moved at me would have presented many opportunities for me, but they would've had a glancing blow, at best.

Rob

[ladyhawk]

Originally posted by Kosokun

This is what I did. I maintained a reasonable distance from my antagonist and assumed a natural stance with my hands up and open. It wasn't something that looked like a combative stance, but rather, more like someone trying to de escalate the situation. Palms out, and open, fists not clenched. I asserted my boundries. "Sir, Do not come closer! Please keep your distance!"


I think we agree, non-threatening stance and
passive hands as a make ready for physical
confrontations. I'm 5'2" and prefer them to underestimate my abilities thus taking them by surprise if I can't talk my way out of it.

DC, huh? I live in the Chesapeake Bay territory.

[khafra]

So do I. I go to D.C. sometimes, but I don't get too much out of the vicinity of the club Nation at night.

[ladyhawk]

Hey Western Maryland!
I'm on the Eastern Shore.

[Kosokun]

Originally posted by ladyhawk

DC, huh? I live in the Chesapeake Bay territory.

I was visiting my "last girlfriend" (read wife) at the time. I'm from the Left Coast.

Rob

[Ozebob]

Originally posted by ladyhawk


I think we agree, non-threatening stance and
passive hands as a make ready for physical
confrontations. I'm 5'2" and prefer them to underestimate my abilities thus taking them by surprise if I can't talk my way out of it.

DC, huh? I live in the Chesapeake Bay territory.

Don't be fooled by the 'no mirror line' Rob is big, mean and as ugly as a hat full of bum holes hahaha.. no wonder they backed off :))

ANON

[ladyhawk]

Hey, if intimidation works...use it.

[Freeform]

My prefered self defence fighting stance would be to be very far away from my aggressor ;)

Three points here:

1. FIGHTING stance, fighting isn't SD, SD is 90% mental, you avoid the confrontation.


2. If you are attacked by suprise (which is how it normally happens) you ain't got time to 'take stance', flow be natural, use the weapons (and I primarily refer to body weapons here) that the situation allows.

3. To take a stance (other than a neutral posture) is to invite aggression, SD is the avoidance and negation of aggression (or hell, even redirection!), this then turn from being a SD situation into a match fight (or slaughter if he's brought his mates!).

If your being squared up the following posture is one of the best; stand square footed and then place one of your feet slightly forward of the other (work to your strengths, whichever one you feel stronger/more comfortable with) your arms are straight,raised in front of you (bend in the elbows) with your palms facing your aggressor to form a ward off (one hand slightly forward, depends on foot, same hand same foot). This give you a barrier between you and the aggressor. Practice striking from here, a flick to the eyes off the lead hand, followed by a solid cross. Also practice the flick kick to the groin off the leading foot.

If they touch your guard give them a hard shove back, if its a good shove (it will be if you practice!) they should go into 'fight or flight', tell them to back off and that you don't want to fight. If their with friends try to give them an easy way out 'Come on mate, its not worth the trouble, I'm sorry for .....' whatever. If they come back hit them hard then leg it!

Hope this helps.

Thanx

[ladyhawk]

I agree that the best option is to avoid it.

As far as being surprised, no time to be thinking
about stratagies, just react.

Everyone seems to agree about hands being up in an open palm guard. It may not of sounded like it in my description but my posture appears non-threatening. I don't want to instigate a fight if I can talk my way out of it.

Flicking the eyes is a nice quick move but more people are wearing glasses and sunglasses, eliminating that option. An alternative might be
a nukite to the throat.

I'd do a snap kick to the groin or better yet if my angle is right I'm gonna put my leg between their legs and strike with my shin lessening the chance of missing any sensitive parts.

If they are waving their finger at me and starting to become more aggressive. A quick nukite to spear and trap their finger and then you bend it and step back, bringing then to their knees.
I've used that and it has worked quite nicely.

You mentioned body weapons but it is also a good idea to do a scan of your surroundings to see what is available to utilize in your defense.

[Darzeka]

There is only one problem with putting your hands up now - most people who fight will recognise this as preparation for a fight.
Nearly everyone I have talked to about this says bring your hands up like you are trying to get them to back off.

Not that this is bad just people will pick up on it.

I would try to keep about a metre and a half away from the person at least and stand with my hands down at my waist, elbows bent but in front of my body and my feet in what I call a "ready stance" but there are many names for it - "Seisan" being one used here.
If they other person moves closer then bring my hands up in front of my chest, front hand palm out the other palm in - this is less threatening and offers good blocking cover with lower striking angles that are harder to pick up.

Now I am set to block anything he tries (whilst moving into a recieving stance and grabbing the offending), counter with eye poke/throat thrust/punch to face/hell of palm then apply lock/compliance move or put his arse on the ground with a variety easilyapplied throws.

One important thing to do is hold eye contact with the other person - stare 'em out.

Keep light on your feet - easier to avoid blows and react to blindside attacks

Remain aware as to what else is goin on - people trying to get behind etc.

[ladyhawk]

Hmmm, one palm out and one palm in.

That's interesting. I wonder if that could be mentally distracting also. Don't you understand what I mean?

[Darzeka]

yeah it is just a way to make the guard smaller and more innocuous. Also it draws their eyes down or they don't notice your hands there.

With respect to the lessened guard action if you are ready to step back with their strike they won't get you.

The hand palm in is also faster to strike with a back fist and can be held closer to the chest. This makes you appear less dangerous I think.

[ladyhawk]

All good points and well received, thanks.

[mattsylvester]

I'd go for a similar stance and raise my hands as if flinching/placating. That then leaves me with a number of entry points and if he tries to take my arms down by grabbing them then I can move in and use locks thanks to his 'gift'.

[brownbelt]

A straightforward stance is my favorite and I think it suits all circumstances. Why have the martial arts instructors--and books--ignored a simple front facing stance? I mean like a walking stance or I mean the seisan stance with the upper body and lower half of the body in direct sychronization--the feet, the knees, the hips, the shoulders, and the head are pointed directly and squarely and straightly to the front. During training practice or/and during real fighting, can the seisan stance be used for any martial art system or any martial art style? During training practice and/or during real fighting, for any martial art, for any martial system, or/and for any martial style, can a person do any basic forearm hard block such as the vertical middle-body inside-to-outside hand and arm block from the seisan stance?

[Nomadwanders]

Relaxed stance, knees slightly bent, one foot a little in front of the other. Hand position depends on how close they are... if they're outside punch-throwing range, I'd keep the hands down, if inside, then hands up, palms open in the "what's goin' on?" kind of way.

If you want them to back down, use the "black belt stare" on them (right before using the vulcan death grip... whoops, wrong forum :D ). Seriously though, this is the look that Kokosan likely used... the one that shows no fear and lets your opponent know that if he moves, you have no choice but to kill him.

On the other hand, if you want to lure him in, then look stupid and harmless, with an "I can't believe this is happening" expression (which might be more natural to most!), right up until you rip his still-beating heart from his chest. Then gloat.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

i think anyone who says "well i would use this stance in a str33tfight" hasnt been in a real fight before.

[Yama Tombo]

My preferred stance........Works well in almost any situation

[Yohan]

My preferred stance in a self defense situation would be with my arse in a chair, my feet on a rest and a beer in my hand. Oh wait, I guess we are assuming I did something dumb to put myself in a bad situation, so now I'm stuck having to defend myself from some retard with a weapon or something?

This one:

http://www.shelterpub.com/_fitness/_running/runner.gif

The stance I use in training is the same as your "seisan" stance. So I guess I would *probably* end up there in a "self defense" situation. I've never been in a physical confrontation (due to my preferred self defense stance), but I realize the ridiculousness of the question.

The answer you are looking for is:

if you find yourself in a physical confrontation - attack hard, fast, and do it in such a way that your opponent will be debilitated for a short period of time, then leg it.

[Yama Tombo]

Yeah, but it won't help you against this guy's stance.....

[Yohan]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I see he has mastered the running cheetah stance.

AWNAW

Try my Elise fist from the Lotus Style!! It is unstoppeable!!

http://motor.tuportada.com/img/wp/lotus-elise-13.jpg

[TraditionalTKD]

I prefer the upright natural sideways stance. In other words, natural stance keeping the person to my side. This minimizes access to my vital points, and allows me the opportunity for side kick if necessary. This is not a stance I would go into if needed, it is a stance I would already be in. My hands would be crossed in front of my chest or held at shoulder/head level in a non-threatening manner to protect my head if necessary.

[Songi]

less threatening looking stance possible. basicly what ever comes natural to me. though i'm starting to see the beauty in that lotus stance. hehe.

[DarthSamurai]

no need for stance.

Just look into the guys eyes and smile.

Then you say: "I used to F@!k guys like you in Prison"

This should settle matters.

[dimmak]

Im a big fan of the monkey-dragon crouch!

[Yama Tombo]

no need for stance.

Just look into the guys eyes and smile.

Then you say: "I used to F@!k guys like you in Prison"

This should settle matters.

Yeah the guys just got outta prison, then they take you up on that offer.

[Ragnarok2005]

http://www.shaolin-viaggi.net/images/923.jpg

Use the classics.

[Snake Style]

When I want to hold my grounds I prefer to use the Kiba dachi stance ,Cat stance or Kokutsu dachi .. but when Im attacking I usually the normal fighting stance. or whatever stance is need it at the moment
For me it works all the time... :D :)

[Slindsay]

Go to go with the classic crane stance:

http://www.jungsusataekwondo.com/NEW-PHOTOS/Nicole%20Lee%20CraneStance.jpg

[TraditionalTKD]

Keep in mind, if you assume a fighting stance your opponent will know something's up and adjust his strategy accordingly. If you assume a stance that many people associate with martial arts (back stance, crane stance, cat stance etc.) he will know right off that you practice martial arts. He won't know what style, but he'll know you practice something and it may not be as effective. If you just use a stance that allows you freedonm to move and defend without drawing attention to the fact that you can defend yourself, you will likely be much more successful.

[dimmak]

Standing in some crane stance or pouncing hawk stance isnt gonna intimidate anyone. Just because you get into a stance like that does not mean you can defend yourself!!! First of all, YOUR FACE IS WIDE OPEN and you are standing on a foot!!! Ive seen fights where some asian dude does a "martial arts type stance", except he was on two feet with a wide base with his hands and arms in some awkward position and he got his ass handed to him in a few seconds. :eek:

[chrispy]

This is what I did. I maintained a reasonable distance from my antagonist and assumed a natural stance with my hands up and open. It wasn't something that looked like a combative stance, but rather, more like someone trying to de escalate the situation. Palms out, and open, fists not clenched.

That is pretty much what we are taught at our club, if you get into a situation that is unavoidable.

[firecoins]

That stance seems to be the stance taught in KM and other combative classes I have attended

[Slindsay]

Standing in some crane stance or pouncing hawk stance isnt gonna intimidate anyone. Just because you get into a stance like that does not mean you can defend yourself!!! First of all, YOUR FACE IS WIDE OPEN and you are standing on a foot!!! Ive seen fights where some asian dude does a "martial arts type stance", except he was on two feet with a wide base with his hands and arms in some awkward position and he got his ass handed to him in a few seconds. :eek:

You've got it all wrong, if you get the stance right you can do a jump front snap kick from it, if done right, no can defend.

[OneArmedBandit]

Hmm, this normally works for me;

http://www.kwanumzen.com/practice/bowing/prostration2large.jpg
Whilst crying like a baby and screaming "Don't hurt me"

Then in the confusion producing a mortar directly in front of their face.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m225-kneeling.jpg

Works a treat.