Liddell vs. Silva

[stellhornata]

wanderlei silva vs. chuck liddel dana just announced it. will be first good fight ufc has had i think in a while that isnt a rematch SWWWWWWWEEEETTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!! this is gonna be awsome im so exited im like a little schoolgirl!YAY!

[Apotheosis]

First- Is this for real?

Second- What about Liddel and Babalu and Silva's semi-final(and potential final) matches in pride GP?

Kind of worried one or the other will be injured and the fight will be cancelled.

What are the rules? And will it be a UFC or Pride event?

Depending on all the previous issues, I pick Wandy by murder maybe with an axe.

[Sever]

This has happened before. At UFC 49 they announced Randy Couture vs Silva, Silva came into the ring, there were photos taken and the same thing was said. It didn't happen then and I'm willing to bet it won't happen now

[Apotheosis]

Kind of what I suspected, some sort of publicity stunt.

Just doesn't seem feasible as Liddel has to fight Babalu and Silva has to fight Cro-cop/Nog and possible both AND then possibly Fedor.

BTW...can Liddel beat Babalu?

[Sever]

It's pretty much a publicity stunt, I think. Pride have a Las Vegas show coming up in October, and in the wake of TUF, Pride's only known to the hardcore MMA fan in the US, so if Wanderlei comes in and gets talked up by Dana White, wearing a Pride t-shirt, the Pride name gets out there and there's more chance of people buying the PPV or getting tickets to see what it's all about. The UFC gets more PPV buys for the Chuck/ Babalu fight since people will want to see if Chuck gets by Babalu and takes on Silva
As to whether Chuck can beat Babalu - I'm saying yes, but don't bet the house on it. The last time Babalu lost a fight was to Chuck all the way back in 2002 after eating a shin to the face, but both fighters have improved a lot since then. Babalu's got great submissions, great wrestling and good standup too; he's arguably the most well rounded fighter Chuck's fought in a while. If Chuck doesn't come in in top shape, we could see a new champion

[Apotheosis]

That's to bad it would be a great fight.

Pride really needs to get into the U.S and exploit the UFC's rise. I have seen he UFC mentioned in Sports Illustrated which is a sign people are starting to recognize it, but Pride so far has been absent.

Babalu's the dude with the physco staredown isnt he?

[McClanahan]

Hello everyone.

As many of the already know, during UFC 61 it was announced that Chuck Liddell would be fighting Pride's Middleweight Champion, Wanderlei Silva this November. I have been waiting to see this fight for a while now and I'm still not sure who I think will win.
Chuck Liddell has the huge right hand and great takedown defense as well as a great striking game and an improved ground game as well (i heard he is currently learning BJJ) Chuck has a good chin, and when he is rocked he can recover quickly (the Guy Mezger fight). His conditioning has come into however, such as in the fight against Quinton Jackson.
Wanderlei Silva is a great striker who can pretty much work from any postion. He has those devastating knees which he has won tons of fights with. And from what I have seen, his conditioning is great. Wanderlei can take a punch too. He stands his ground and trades and usually he gets the better of his opponent and they hit the canvas.
I can see this fight going in a lot of ways and I have a lot of questions about it too. If Chuck lands his right hand, will it be enough to put Wandy out? Is Wandy's, in my opinion, seemingly better striking ability going to beat Chuck to pieces? Can Chuck take Wandy's famous knee strikes to the head? If Chuck does knock Wandy down, is their a possiblity that the UFC ref would stop the fight early to ensure a home victory? Are the UFC's rules going to place a hinder on Wandy's game as they did when he fought Tito Ortiz? And I would hate to see this, but could it be a boring fight Arlovski vs. Sylvia 3 style? I have many more questions, but I would like to here your opinion and comments on the fight. Is it going to be the Iceman, or the Axe Murderer?

McClanahan :D

[Wolf]

I really need to see some more Silva fights. I know how chuck fights, and I know Silva's reputation, but I haven't seen many of his fights. So I can't make a good call on this. If anyone can point me to where some of his fights can be found please let me know.

As far as the Lidell/Jackson bout, I think Lidell is a totally different guy after that.

[stump]

Try here for a start

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c37AENeFA2Y

[Sever]

There were two threads on this subject so I've merged them both and moved them to Fight Discussions. Aren't I nice? :Angel:
Like I said in the other thread, I'm 90% sure this fight won't happen. If it does, Silva by knees

[Wolf]

Ok, just watched this clip:
Wanderlei Silva v. Quinton Jackson II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRRynD-wjT0)
It's a highlight, but seems to be a pretty complete one. That's enough to make me scared for Chuck. I'd like to see him pull it out if the fight happens, but DAMN it's gonna be tough.

[Apotheosis]

I also go with Silva, but to answer the question of this being a Sylvia/Arlovski 3 borefest...no it won't.

Silva is known as the Axe Murderer for a reason, he is nearly always extremely aggresive and Chuck isn't afraid of mixing it up either.

[stump]

This one would be genuinely too close to call. One of the most anticipated fights for a long time - if I had to pick I'd go for Silva but as he's fighting under UFC rules we'll have to see how that affects him....and anyone who underestimates Liddell is a fool.

[Apotheosis]

Is it certain that they will not use special rules?

[faster than you]

silva and chuck have virtually the same fighting style . except that silva's version is 10 times better.

[McClanahan]

I doubt that the UFC would use special rules. That could anger some politicians. ;)

McClanahan :D

[stump]

Not talking about special rules - but there is the issue of being used to the ring v the cage and the other minor rule changes (Pride does not allow elbows in certain cases but allows soccer kicks. Liddell is on home territory so to speak - and Silva has done better in the Ring historically. When two fighters are closely matched as these two are these things can have a disproportionate impact

[Apotheosis]

I just cannot believe the UFC is willing to give Pride so much publicity, especially when they are making their push into the U.S market

[stump]

There's more than enough room for both - Pride will help to grow the market for MMA in the US - whatever marketshare they steal from the UFC in the short term will be more than offset by the expansion of popularity long term.

Overall I think it's a healthy move.

[Sever]

Having seen the brackets for September's Pride OWGP Final tournament, I've got to say I really see no way this fight will happen. Silva's fighting Mirko Crocop in the first round, then if he gets by him, he's got to face either Antonio 'Minotoro' Noguiera or Josh Barnett in the same night. The way Silva and Crocop fight, I'd say there's next to no chance that Silva gets out of this one healthy enough to go against another top fighter like Chuck in November. The paranoid conspiracy theorist in me suspects this is the "get out clause" of this publicity stunt: the fight doesn't happen due to Silva picking up an injury in this tournament (Chuck may well pick up an injury against Babalu; he's a very tough dude and shouldn't be taken lightly) and both organisations save face, but both orgs have had their PPV buys before hand

[Apotheosis]

Makes sense, and it is too bad.

But the Pride finals are going to be great.

[freak]

silva will wreck chuck, he has no chance

[bujingodai]

Damn, my favorite Pride fighter and my favorite UFC fighter. Dream match, of which I will pick no winner. But i doubt it wil occur. Too good to be true.

[NaziKiller]

UFC is crap as it stands IMHO. Deserves to be pushed aside by something like Pride.

[stump]

So what makes you think it's crap? The fighters? The rules? What?

[NaziKiller]

The rules.

[Wolf]

which rules specifically? no kicks when your opponent is down?

[NaziKiller]

Yeah, well, and in general it just looks far more brutal and "real" in Pride, that's what I like to watch.

[Apotheosis]

I see UFC having a better future than Pride...for one simple reason.

The name.

[stump]

You mean more real like the way elbows are not allowed in Pride???

[Wolf]

while I think for the most part Pride has the better fighters, at least in the HW division, I'm still not sure which ruleset I like better. I do have one question about rules. Are elbows not allowed in Pride, or are they just not used as much. I haven't seen that many PFC fights, but the ones I have seem to have a distinct lack of elbows.

[Sever]

I see UFC having a better future than Pride...for one simple reason.

The name.In America and England, maybe. In many other places in the world, Japan especially (where the money is in MMA), the UFC is a fondly regarded novelty
I personally much prefer Pride to UFC - having a lot more money than the UFC (and not being afraid to spend it) leads to having better fighters by and large, better production and hotter ring girls. I also prefer their rules. The UFC's cool and I like most of what they do, but I think as an organisation, Pride is better
Wolf: Pride doesn't allow elbows to the head, but they're allowed to the body. I personally much prefer this since it cuts right down on stoppages caused by cuts

[NaziKiller]

I mean like the way that 3rd Liddel vs. Ortiz fight went, a mind numbing 10 minutes (or whatever amount of time it was), in which they both tried to jaqb each other until Liddel eventually decided to go for a takedown in the last couple of seconds. It bored the <deleted> out of me.

[Sever]

I mean like the way that 3rd Liddel vs. Ortiz fight went, a mind numbing 10 minutes (or whatever amount of time it was), in which they both tried to jaqb each other until Liddel eventually decided to go for a takedown in the last couple of seconds. It bored the <deleted> out of me.Eh? I think you mean Sylvia/ Arlovski - Liddell and Ortiz have fought once :)
Boring fights happen in every promotion, that's not the fault of the organisation. That said, if that fight had happened in Pride, both fighters would have had the 10% purse deduction for every card the ref had to pull for incentive

[Agutrot-]

First off yellow cards are the worst idea of all time. I boycott Pride PPV because of it.(I will watch on the internet though)

Silva is ranked number one lightheavy and Chuck is number two... I think that's about to change.

Lidell upped his conditioning and training and now is a completely new fighter. All of his last fights he walked through with no problems. I can't see anyone beating Chuck anymore. I'd say he's the quickest at 205.

[Apotheosis]

In America and England, maybe. In many other places in the world, Japan especially (where the money is in MMA), the UFC is a fondly regarded novelty
I personally much prefer Pride to UFC - having a lot more money than the UFC (and not being afraid to spend it) leads to having better fighters by and large, better production and hotter ring girls. I also prefer their rules. The UFC's cool and I like most of what they do, but I think as an organisation, Pride is better
Wolf: Pride doesn't allow elbows to the head, but they're allowed to the body. I personally much prefer this since it cuts right down on stoppages caused by cuts


I say the name for a reason...UFC is a much better name brand that PFC.

I also prefer Pride, but the UFC is gaining on them as far as money goes which will lead to better fighters, production, and ring girls.

The brand is everything, ask Coke or Pepsi.

[Apotheosis]

First off yellow cards are the worst idea of all time. I boycott Pride PPV because of it.(I will watch on the internet though)

Silva is ranked number one lightheavy and Chuck is number two... I think that's about to change.

Lidell upped his conditioning and training and now is a completely new fighter. All of his last fights he walked through with no problems. I can't see anyone beating Chuck anymore. I'd say he's the quickest at 205.


I don't know why you hate the carding system, I love it.

As to Silva vs Chuck, I really do not see Chuck having any advanatges...

There is a reason Liddel has walked through his recent competetion, and it is because his competetion was low quality. Silva has just a smuch if not better KO power than Liddel, likely the better chin, better stamina, more experience vs top fighters etc....

Liddel's standup is pretty suspect, I cannot remember him fighting a real good stand up fighter(I could be wrong). He is mostly a swing for the fences type who has been lucky not to run into someone with superior striking, which SIlva has.

[Sever]

I say the name for a reason...UFC is a much better name brand that PFC.

I also prefer Pride, but the UFC is gaining on them as far as money goes which will lead to better fighters, production, and ring girls.

The brand is everything, ask Coke or Pepsi.That's what I was getting at - only no one calls it PFC and never will since it sounds so stupid. The Pride brand is miles bigger worldwide, has much more marketing and merchandising attached to it (hell, you can buy fighter action figures and Pride lunchboxes!) and is generally a long long way ahead of the game compared to the UFC. Pride and K-1 are practically the national sport over in Japan with their New Years Eve shows being some of the most watched shows of the Japanese and Korean TV year. The UFC may have cornered the market in America thus far as far as the name goes, but with the quality of the smaller shows coming up like WEC, Strikeforce and WFA all putting together good cards with big names on them - not to mention Pride and K-1's Heroes doing shows in America and Europe, I don't see it staying that way much longer unless Zuffa actually spends some of their money on giving their fighters pay rises and starts signing some top talent which they're just not doing right now
There is a reason Liddel has walked through his recent competetion, and it is because his competetion was low quality. Silva has just a smuch if not better KO power than Liddel, likely the better chin, better stamina, more experience vs top fighters etc....Hang on a second dude: you're saying Randy Couture, Jeremy Horn, Alistair Overeem and Tito Ortiz are low quality? :confused:

[Apotheosis]

I think the UFC will win the U.S market, and will eventually beat out Pride in the majority of the worldwide market.

No doubt Pride will be able to secure the Japanese and surrounding areas, but the UFC has a better name/brand.

As to my mention of low quality, my apologies.

Did not mean to say they are low quality, but that they were not as good as the Pride contenders. A better choice of words would be that Pride has higher quality fighters.

[Sever]

I think the UFC will win the U.S market, and will eventually beat out Pride in the majority of the worldwide market.

No doubt Pride will be able to secure the Japanese and surrounding areas, but the UFC has a better name/brand.We'll have to differ on that one, I think. If the UFC's going to do it, it's got a very big uphill battle ahead of it since Pride has the biggest markets (Japan and Brazil) pretty much cornered. America and the UK are years behind in terms of "mainstream" revenue
As to my mention of low quality, my apologies.

Did not mean to say they are low quality, but that they were not as good as the Pride contenders. A better choice of words would be that Pride has higher quality fighters.Yeah, by and large they do, and Silva's beaten some very tough opposition, but it would be remiss to not mention that a large portion of his record is made up of cans as well, whereas the level of Liddell's opposition has been pretty consistant

[Agutrot-]

Hang on a second dude: you're saying Randy Couture, Jeremy Horn, Alistair Overeem and Tito Ortiz are low quality? :confused:

He was just saying great strikers, but I'd say Horn had really good boxing. I'd say Horn and Silva have pretty similar striking styles. I'm calling it Lidell right here.(Although I may be biased as he's my favorite fighter.)

[McClanahan]

I see very little similarity between Horn and Silva's striking styles. Silva is by far a better striker than Horn will every be and is in my opinon the best striker Liddell has fought to this date. All I have to say is that Liddell better knock our Babalu quick and Silva better survive the Open Weight Grand Prix because I really want to see this fight happen.

McClanahan

[Apotheosis]

I see very little similarity between Horn and Silva's striking styles. Silva is by far a better striker than Horn will every be and is in my opinon the best striker Liddell has fought to this date. All I have to say is that Liddell better knock our Babalu quick and Silva better survive the Open Weight Grand Prix because I really want to see this fight happen.

McClanahan

The odds of Silva getting through a fight with Cro=cop without any injuries is extremely small.

[Slindsay]

Silva vs Cro Cop is actually as exciting to me as Lidell vs Silva to be honest, two truly awesome stand up strikers taking each other on, both have solid ground games though I think the edge might be with Silva in this seeing as he's (Supposedly) a BJJ black, should be an interesting fight.

Lidell vs Silva is more interesting fight because in a lot of peoples minds (Mine included) this is Pride vs UFC. personally I think the quality of UFC fighters and fights tends to be slightly lower than the Pride fights. It's not that the UFC turns out bad fights, it's more that they tend to come on the under card.

Anyway, Lidell has a way of winning his fights when on paper he really shouldnt, he has an average ground game and what appears to be a decent but sloppy stand up game, the thing is he just tends to, well, knock people out, it's timinbg I guess, he seems to be the Van Helsing of the MMA world because of it though so for that reason i ain't counting him out but on paper you have to go with Wanderlei all the way.

[Apotheosis]

Well he would have to take Cro-cop down which is going to be a difficult task, I think he will follow Fedors gameplan and bullrush Cro-cop. Hard to kick someone when they are right up against you.

[Korpy]

EVen though Liddell is a favorite of mine, there's no way he's getting passed Silva. (who's my 2nd fav fighter) ON striking, yes they are pretty even. But once Wandy gets Chuck into the clinch, he's done for. Also I gotta say, I think Wandy has a better ground game then Chuck. (we don't get to see their ground game really)

All I know is that it will be a memorable, memorable.... memorable fight. Which will end with Wandy regining supreme here in the states.

[Agutrot-]

Chuck is a purple belt in BJJ. I can't see him getting beat on the ground. I can't even see him on the ground unless he wants to be.

[Korpy]

Chuck is a purple belt in BJJ. I can't see him getting beat on the ground. I can't even see him on the ground unless he wants to be.

Yeah... and Silva is from Chute Boxe. They are know fro being great stnading on and on the ground. Chuck is done for.

[Korpy]

This has to do with Silva vs Liddell.

Ok Liddell will get a chance to fight silva, if he gets passed Babalu. The way the UFC is acting, makes Babalu look like an inconvience insted of a real contender. He is a really good fighter who does have a chance to take Liddell down and win the title. But insted people are seeing him as a minor road block. Is it just me, or is that pretty insulting?

[Apotheosis]

Chuck is a purple belt in BJJ. I can't see him getting beat on the ground. I can't even see him on the ground unless he wants to be.

Silva is a black belt, has been for 3 or so years and trains with GREAT submission fighters everyday.

If it goes to the ground then Silva has the advantage, however Liddel might have the best sprawl I have seen and Silva would likely not attempt a takedown anyway.

[Apotheosis]

This has to do with Silva vs Liddell.

Ok Liddell will get a chance to fight silva, if he gets passed Babalu. The way the UFC is acting, makes Babalu look like an inconvience insted of a real contender. He is a really good fighter who does have a chance to take Liddell down and win the title. But insted people are seeing him as a minor road block. Is it just me, or is that pretty insulting?

A pretty credible theory is that this is a simple publicity stunt. They make this announcement when Liddel has a tough fight ahead of him, while Silva has a very tough fight/s with Cro-cop and if he gets beyond him then Barnett or Nog and IF he gets that far then Fedor.

The odds both fighters will come out of their upcoming fights without injury is so small, Chuck Norris would begin a MMA career before this would happen.

As to it being insulting, it probably is a bit. However Babalu knows this is a business and that Liddel is very popular, so he also likely understands it. Doesn't mean he likes it though, he may come in very angry(the dude looks scary when hes smiling much less angry) and take Liddel out.

Also, I think that there is some stipulation where whoever wins the Liddel-Babula fights Silva.

[Sever]

With the amount of English Babalu speaks, he probably hasn't got a clue what the hell's going on here ;)
On a serious note, Chuck has given interviews swearing that he's not looking past Babalu (doing so would be moronic), which I suspect he won't be since if this fight actually happens, I'll change my sig for two weeks to something really daft. That's how convinced I am that this fight won't happen
Whether Babalu cares about the alleged Silva fight or not, Liddell's in for one hell of a fight this time and he'd better bring his top game, or it'll be Babalu supposedly fighting Silva (the fight's for the title - if Liddell loses, he won't be the champion so he won't be defending the belt)

[McClanahan]

I'm fairly confident that Liddell will beat Babalu. Liddell went through Jeremy Horn and he fights similar to Babalu. And look at the records: Horn 87-14-6, Babalu 27-5-0. Horn was a much more experienced fighter and Liddell worked him over the entire time. They are both submission specialists and if the Iceman could handle the more experieced fighter, he should be able to take Babalu.
As far as the UFC considering Babalu a stepping stone or a pushover, I dont think that's true. They are glorifying this fight. The UFC normally only uses the names of fighters in the event's title for a huge fight such as UFC 57: Liddell vs. Coture 3. This one is called UFC 62: Liddell vs. Sobral. Maybe they are just doing this to gain more payperview buys from people who want to make sure that Chuck beats Babalu so he can have his fight with Wanderlei this November. But I dont think they are completely overlooking him. The only example of that I can think of is when they brought Silva into the UFC ring and said, "Wanderlei will fight Chuck this November." or whatever. That's kinda looking straight past Chuck's fight at UFC 62.

McClanahan

[Oversoul]

Horn was a much more experienced fighter and Liddell worked him over the entire time. They are both submission specialists and if the Iceman could handle the more experieced fighter, he should be able to take Babalu.

Maybe, but Babalu DID beat Horn in 2003 and has only gotten better since. I think he can pull off a win against Liddell--if he doesn't decide to take a head kick like last time...

[Apotheosis]

Not to mention his 10 fight winning streak.

Just watched soem of his highlights, he has some great takedowns.

[Ecks]

Looking forward to this fight. Can't wait to see some great strikers, and really see who can handle each other on the ground. I'm going with Silva on this though, I personally think he's a more vicious striker, and is better on the ground.

Hopefully the PPV will be a little better than UFC 61's horrible card.

[Apotheosis]

Don't get your hopes up, the odds are very low that this fight will actually happen.

[Rapid]

Ive seen some clips of silva and hes savage, chuck has the ability to knock out silva in one punch, my prediction silva steams forward throwing a barrage of punches, chuck counterpunches the <deleted> out of him, silva might try to then go ground, chucks takedown defence is to good to keep him down, chuck has every tool to kill silva, hes to good a counterpuncher to be beaten by wild punches, silvas to angry and needs to calm down if he doesnt want to get knocked out early by chuck

[jfreelancer4706]

this should be sweet... ive heard of silva and that hes tough as nails...
id like to see chuck freeze him out, but i dont know...

should be good though..











-j

[Apotheosis]

Ive seen some clips of silva and hes savage, chuck has the ability to knock out silva in one punch, my prediction silva steams forward throwing a barrage of punches, chuck counterpunches the <deleted> out of him, silva might try to then go ground, chucks takedown defence is to good to keep him down, chuck has every tool to kill silva, hes to good a counterpuncher to be beaten by wild punches, silvas to angry and needs to calm down if he doesnt want to get knocked out early by chuck

Well, Silva has fought people with more power than Chuck and they didn't KO him...(Hunt for example)

SIlva isn't so much a "wild" striker as he is aggressive, he doesn't fight stupid.

Silva isn't "angry", he is very aggressive. He essentially overwhelms his opponent with pur aggression, and the other guy ends up getting ko'ed.

His last loss by KO came from Beelfort way back when he was in the UFC.

[Sever]

One of those times that I hate it when I'm right :cry:
Fight's probably off (http://calsun.canoe.ca/Sports/OtherSports/2006/08/11/1744255-sun.html). It's not the best source, but they've been right about stuff before
If I'm honest, I'm not at all surprised it's not happening, I'm more surprised that it's Pride stopping it this time. Pride has promised before to send over fighters, but this time the UFC had so much more to lose than Pride did that I was expecting it to be the UFC stopping it or an "injury" to either fighter in their big upcoming matches.
By the same token, if it genuinely is "Pride and the Japanese being difficult to deal with," I think it still makes the UFC look like chumps - Dana White dealt with them before and got the same thing, he knows how they play the game. He can't use this excuse again and expect it to fly
What IS interesting is that this news comes just a couple of days after Pride president Mr Sakikabara announced that he wants to run an MMA "superbowl" in the US next year and get his fighters to take belts off every UFC champion, claiming that his fighters would "Devour" the UFC's
EDIT: this is now up on MMAWeekly's page here (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=2480&zoneid=13) . I'd be interested to hear Pride's comments on this

[Rapid]

Well, Silva has fought people with more power than Chuck and they didn't KO him...(Hunt for example)

SIlva isn't so much a "wild" striker as he is aggressive, he doesn't fight stupid.

Silva isn't "angry", he is very aggressive. He essentially overwhelms his opponent with pur aggression, and the other guy ends up getting ko'ed.

His last loss by KO came from Beelfort way back when he was in the UFC.

Just because people with more power than chuck havent knocked silva out doesnt mean that chuck isnt capable of knocking him out, chuck is capable of knocking out any mma fighter in the world, doesnt mean he would if they fought, just means it could happen

your right about the angry and savage coments though, poor choice of words

[Apotheosis]

Didn't mean to imply that Chuck couldn't knock him out, simply that it was/is improbable.