balm for conditioning

[bela diri]

Hi everyone

I am at the moment working on conditioning my arms and shins can anybody help, i am looking for the soothing balm or any type of balm that is like, or similar to jit ja jow. I remember a while back some one mentioned some indonesian balm, but I can not find any previous posts. Would i be able to get any or make any.

regards
bela diri

[Gajah Silat]

There are Indonesian 'versions' of Dit Da Jow, but I bet you wont find any in the UK!

I just use Dit Da Jow for arms & shins that I get off a Kung Fu guy in the North East. I'll PM details to you.

I usually bring some Minyak Urut home and it's the best linament I've found to date. I also tend to get some 'heat plasters' because the Indonesian one are much better and hotter than the Chinese versions. Probably got chilies in like most things Indonesian.

It's something I want to research a bit on the next trip but unfortunately our dear NHS has just made me redundant, so I'm bankrupt at the minute. :(

Anyway, job willing, I'll be there early next year and will bring some of this stuff back. When I do I can post some to you UK guys on the forum.

[Who?]

GFC Muay Thai gym near Manchester sell it
http://www.gfcmuaythai.co.uk/equip.htm

[Sgt_Major]

Arnica is good too.

[Rebo Paing]

1 tblspoon tumeric, 1 tablespoon cengkeh powder (or 5 - 10 whole cloves ) and
1 liter of wee. Simmer (don't boil) until reduced to paste consistency.
Make sure room is well ventilated :D

It's best quality when on a healthy diet & no alcohol.

Salam

P.S. Arnica is also good.

[Gajah Silat]

1 liter of wee

Is that your own, or will anyones do? :D

[Rebo Paing]

GS said:
Is that your own, or will anyones do? :D

Hi GS,
It depends on how fastidious one is on the aspect of quality control! :D

[tellner]

Mushtaq Ali Ansari (http://tracelesswarrior.blogspot.com) has kindly given me permission to make his very own reverse-engineered version of Balur Cimande, various proportions of eighteen herbs in an organic coconut oil base. The process is fairly complicated and takes several months to complete. The stuff has dit da jow beat all to hell for bruises, soft tissue injuries and increasing bone density. Rub towards the heart only. Don't take internally or put on open wounds. It will stain clothes.

[Rebo Paing]

Hello Tellner, are you going to share it (the recipe) or just tell us about it?

If it is not available to us, why tell us about it? :)

(I couldn't find it on the link - forgive me if it was obvioius!)

Salam

[tellner]

It is available, but I don't want to do commercial promotion on this forum. If you're interested, please contact me or Mushtaq (mushtaq@qadiri-rifai.org) offline.

The ingredients are:

chamomile flower, Chinese Rhubarb root, Panax Ginseng, Gotu Cola, Indian Sarasprilla, manjishta, Arnica flower, blessed thistle, frankincense, clove, camphor, Dong qwi, myrrh, turmeric, witch hazel, Calendulla flower, Dragon’s Blood in an organic coconut oil base. The only traditional ingredient that I can't get is dust from the grave of Mas Kair.

It's going to be a few weeks before it's available. The last batch had to be thrown out when a Chinese herbalist accidentally sold me something that wasn't rhubarb root and something else that wasn't dong quai and only told me about it after I was a month into the batch :bang:

[Narrue]

Ok big quote from Ian Douglas Wilsons Thesis The Politics of Inner Power: The Practice of Pencak Silat in West Java

"The specific ingredients of the oil and the process by which it is made are the possession of a number of families in Cimande including Ace Sutisna and Haji Gufron, and are a closely guarded secret. According to Haji Gufron, “the history of Cimande oil is that it was for treating the wounds or broken bones of students or opponents who suffered injuries in fight”
Popular legend has it that the oil can only be made one night a year on the 12th day of the month of Maulud. The two prime ingredients are earth and coconut oil. The earth is believed to be loose soil taken from the grave of Abah Kahir, the founder of pencak silat Cimande, which is situated in Kampung Sareal, Bogor. Likewise the coconuts are said to be taken from trees that grow near the grave. Another account is that one must find a tree facing east with only one green coconut on it. The coconuts are cooked, producing an oily residue known as minyak keletik burung. This is then mixed with white sugar cane as well as several other herbs, also a closely guarded secret. The special healing and strengthening qualities of the oil are then ‘activated’ by the recital of mantra unique to the family concerned. According to Ace Sutisna, “the oil in itself is not unusual, it is the mantra that brings it to life”."

[rizal]

well, for relief i usually fall back to Kayu Putih Oil. Not the commercial kind (like C** L**g) but the traditionally brew one from Buru islands. I usually got a regular supply every few months, although for those in Jakarta, you can find a good one on a shop at ITC Kuningan, 4th floor. It's a clothes shop (forgot the name) but it also sells small bottles of Kayu Putih Oil.

[Gajah Silat]

That's Cajuput oil for those who are unsure. Kayu (wood) Putih(white), the English term Cajuput derives from that. :) No Indonesian mother is without it!

Very nice distinctive smell too. ;)

[bela diri]

Thanks guys much appprieciated with all the information. :)

regards
bela diri

[fire cobra]

what you want to condition your arms and legs for bela diri? :)

[Orang Jawa]

what you want to condition your arms and legs for bela diri? :)

An exellent question Fire Cobra :)
Eventhough I studied a little silat that historically or traditionaly includes the hands and shins conditioning. I was told by my teacher not to do it. The essense of the ilmu bela diri is NOT TO GET HIT.
How we achieve that goal is by practice and practice.
At first, we learn how to block. Blocking the incoming punches or kicks is requires certain amount of power to push away the incoming forces. Very a rude and elementary way how not to get hit.
Secondly, we learn to deflect the incoming instead of blocking. Deflecting requires you to move your body away from the incoming while using less power to deflect the attacker's power.
Finally, we learn how to re-direct the incoming punches, the subltle way not to get hit. You cannot achieve the last step unless you are practice the step 1 and 2 dillegently for many moons :)
IMHO, people who conditioning their hands and feets are still stuck in step one. I can only imagine to see 86 years guy still pounding makiwara or hit his shin with 2x4. Most MAs students doing it because being told by his/her teacher to do that for blocking purposes with the idea that they can break someon hands or leg with a block......shamelessly not true and never been proofen. Lastly they doing it for an IG, self promoting egos. Knowing that many so called master who did this have a health problem in their old age.
But yet, so many people are willing to pay the price for this, blew my mind in deed. :)
Please read my comment about your goal and objective learn Silat.
I could be proofen wrong too,
Tristan

[Wali]

that for blocking purposes with the idea that they can break someon hands or leg with a block......shamelessly not true and never been proofen.

WARNING: NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED... DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINK IN YOU ARE SQUEAMISH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKMzKYjyq8E&search=SHIN%20BREAK

[bela diri]

I am wanting just a little more condition on the front shin for when making contact i find that i am brusing easily and so are my arms with some of tankis blocks. I also wanted to try some balm to see if this would ease the bruising. I do train as far as i can go with out shin pads when kicking, but some times i catch shin to shin. I am not trying to break base ball bats over them just need balm while learning & practising my entries. I am fully aware of the in's and outs of conditioning.

Any way fire cobra how was your trip did you do a report

Regards
bela diri

[bela diri]

Tristan i don't want to break some ones arm or leg just toughen mine up yes we do practise to evade & redirect but we also practise to block as well. I can not evade myself when kicking the bag or pads using my shin or arm to hit. There is no ego here i can asure you and no self promotion involved i was just looking for some balm for my arms and shins thats all.

regards
bela diri

[fire cobra]

hi bela dira,in my opinion its more a mental acceptance of the pain you may recive when using the shin as you stated(i understand where your coming from) also precision blocking counts a lot,try to use the top of your shin on the inside of your partners shin(they will need the balms then! he he). for the bruising maybe you should check out a chinese herbal practitioner as they could reccomend herbs for external and internal(to promote blood flow) usage.my trip was great thanks,i will elaborate in the thai boxing forum,respect brothers :)

[bela diri]

cool thanks for the tips i do try to use side of shin on opponent but with some of the ular kicks its difficult thanks mate.

regards
bela diri

[fire cobra]

welcome! i always attack very low down the inside of partners shin when using ular glen :)

[sulaiman]

hi all ,
In silat melayu we use Gamat oil - this is an extract from the sea cucumber that lives off the island of Langkawi - I have never come across anything like it in my life - the sea cucumber is part animal part plant , and has an energy unlike anything else.
It is widely used in Malaysia for all sorts of things including post operative recuperation.

For conditioning we use a wood called raja Kayu, mixed with other ingredients and rubbed into the bones , the theory is slightly different to kung fu or cimande conditioning though - we do not want to connect bone to bone , but to cover our own protruding or vulnerable bones with a layer of muscle as this is more flexible and recovers much more quickly than bone.
There are a number of exercises to effect this and the end result is quite astounding.

[Orang Jawa]

WARNING: NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED... DO NOT CLICK ON THE LINK IN YOU ARE SQUEAMISH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKMzKYjyq8E&search=SHIN%20BREAK

LOL, that's self causing injury,IMHO :)
T

[Orang Jawa]

[QUOTE=bela diri]Tristan i don't want to break some ones arm or leg just toughen mine up yes we do practise to evade & redirect but we also practise to block as well. I can not evade myself when kicking the bag or pads using my shin or arm to hit. There is no ego here i can asure you and no self promotion involved i was just looking for some balm for my arms and shins thats all.

regards
bela diri[/QUOTE

Its just different prespective in learning methodology, I think :)
I always explain the way to learn not to get hit, as the same way learning mathematic. Blocking is equal to adding and subraction, Deflecting is multiplication and division and Redirecting is equal to square roots. You can not learn square root first before you learning how to add/subract and multiply/divide. That's are our methodology of learning NOT TO GET HIT.
It takes time to master on each level, its almost impossible to learn all of it in one semester...at least for me, though. I'm a slow learner.
But I could be wrong too.
I'm in the minority as far as punching the bag or makiwara routine practice, I don't do it and I did not advice my students to do it either. I would rather to have my students practice pre-sparr to practice the technique applications. Keep this in mind, when practice pre sparr, the attacker is practicing how to attack with the techniques that they just learn and the defender is applying the self-defense or counter-attack as well. This simple routine exercises have been negleted by many silat students. Most of them practice "only" self-defense technique with the counter attack, while the attacker is stage to punch once and waiting to be hammer.
Punching bag and hitting makiwara probably good for self-confidence and power hitting. However, the makiwara or the bag did not fight back, therefore, your reaction could be in question in real fights.
Once must remember in Silat two things:
To hit the right target and succesfully landed. Because it does not matter how strong and powerfull you are, if your kicks and punches kept missing the target. You are in trouble :) Be a sniper!
Second, learn to master not to get hit. it does not matter of how big and strong your attacker is, if his punches or kick kept missing you as a target. You are accomplish your goal not to get hit.
I'm trouble with teacher who never fought in an open tournament or on the streetfights. But yet they devised or teaching how to be a good fighter.
Based on my experience, tong kosong nyaring bunyinya Or an empty drum have the loudest sound. Something like that :)
But again, I could be proofen wrong too,
Tristan

[Narrue]

Well that clip was horrible but it’s not the result of conditioning, more to do with angles of impact.
By conditioning is the result to increase bone density and is that possible or is it to null the sensitivity of the skin so it does not register pain?

[Sgt_Major]

By conditioning is the result to increase bone density and is that possible or is it to null the sensitivity of the skin so it does not register pain?


Depends on the opinion of the instructor.... Personally, in Cimande its the bone density

[rizal]

despite the main idea of 'hindar'/'elak', some conditioning is needed for silat.

believe me, being able to simply move out of opponent's attack and suddenly appear behind me can only be achieved when your opponent is way under your skill level.

also, punching and kicking has its own negative effects too. Try asking a more senior practicioner of the art to block your punch or kick, I guarantee you WILL feel some pain.

besides a good practice should ends with everyone feeling sore and pain and bruise all over :D That's when dit da jow and kayu putih oil come into play, to make sure that those injuries heal properly.

[tellner]

the sea cucumber is part animal part plant , and has an energy unlike anything else.
It is widely used in Malaysia for all sorts of things including post operative recuperation
Mmmm, nope. Sea cucumbers are animals of the class Holothuroidea, not part plant.

[Narrue]

I remember a science teacher once told me that bone density naturally varies between races and that black people have denser bone structure then white people.
Seems like there is truth in that

http://depts.washington.edu/bonebio/bonAbout/race.html

[sulaiman]

Thanks tellner .. you learn something new everyday.
have you ever tried gamat oil yourself ?

[tellner]

I've tried to find it but nobody seems to be importing it into the US. If you know a source I'd be very grateful.

[Gajah Silat]

Pure form is called 'ayer gamat', when mixed with coconut oil & other stuff it's known as 'minyak gamat'. Lots made on Langkawi...apparently!

Know anyone going to Malaysia soon?