Religious or atheist?

[Strafio]

This is kind of a response to TG's topic where he gave us a choice between Atheist and Creationist. No choices for the other 99% of MAP! ;)

I thought this would be a good place to do some clarifying:
Non-religious people can be theistic.
Atheists can be religious.

Atheism and theism is the difference between believing in a God.
A religion is a particular system of thought which might be theistic (e.g. Christianity, Islam etc), atheistic (e.g. scientology) or agnostic (e.g. Buddhism - where whether you believe in God is irrelevant to the religion).

So theists can be free-thinkers while atheists can be brain-washed tools.

(ps. I'm not implying that you're brainwashed. Although I think your overly anti-religion stance is nuts, I'm certain that it's your crazy opinion and no one's telling you what to think! ;))

[Who?]

Jesus - that grown up for santa right?

Guess which one I am

[WatchfulAbyss]

Jesus - that grown up for santa right?

Guess which one I am

Judaism?

[WatchfulAbyss]

I would fall under this:

homer j
Strong Agnosticism = We don’t and never can know of god’s existence. It’s impossible by definition.

[Strafio]

You can still be agnostic "I can't know but believe on faith" theist or a agnostic "I don't know for sure if anything's out there but don't believe" atheist.
The opposite of agnostic is gnostic, e.g. a gnostic "I know that God doesn't exist" atheist or a gnostic "I know that God exists" theist.
(not to be confused the gnostic Christian group! ;))

I call myself agnostic because that's what stays consistent.
I keep changing my mind over the atheist/theist thing. :Angel:

[Who?]

Judaism?

LOL - had the snip for medical reasons thank you

[Topher]

I posted this in tekkengod's 'Atheist?' thread....

Regarding belief/non-belief in God:
Theism = Belief in god
Atheism = Lack of belief in God

Knowledge of God:
Gnosticism = We can have knowledge of god
Weak Agnosticism = We don’t know of god existence, but may gain knowledge in the future.
Strong Agnosticism = We don’t and never can know of god’s existence. It’s impossible by definition.

With this in mind, we can have the following variations…

Strong theism = Belief in god and belief we can ‘know’ ‘him’ (i.e. theism and gnosticism.)

Weak theism (also called agnostic theism, also possibly negative theism) = Belief in god and belief we cannot ‘know’ ‘him’ (i.e. theism and strong or weak agnosticism)

Weak atheism = Lack of belief in god (i.e atheism and weak/strong agnosticism)

Strong atheism = Maintains that god does not exist (i.e atheism and weak/strong agnosticism)

So all people hold a position in theism or atheism AND gnosticism or agnosticism.

So… do you believe in god? If you say yes, you’re a theist… no, then you’re an atheist.

To declare yourself as an agnostic only states your position regarding knowledge - that we cannot know of god. It does not state your stance on belief.

I would class myself as a strong agnostic and a strong/weak atheist. I say both strong and weak atheism because while technically I just lack a belief in a god, the more I look at the absurdities and inconsistencies of such a belief, the more I am convinced that god was a creation of man…made up. So in that sense I believe god exists, just as Santa does – as a figment of our imagination.

[WatchfulAbyss]

Ok, with homers post in mind I should add that I am.....


Weak atheism = Lack of belief in god (i.e atheism and weak/strong agnosticism)

and

Strong Agnosticism = We don’t and never can know of god’s existence. It’s impossible by definition.

That would make more sense than what I posted before I suppose.........

[Strafio]

Very good.
Now you just have to specify whether you're religious or non-religious.
Are these your personal beliefs or have they been dictated to you by a secret brainwashing "strong agnostic and atheist" cult? ;)

[WatchfulAbyss]

Very good.
Now you just have to specify whether you're religious or non-religious.

Nope not religious, although I find religions in general interesting.....

Are these your personal beliefs or have they been dictated to you by a secret brainwashing "strong agnostic and atheist" cult?

They're my own. Actually, I grew up around religious people, but, I was allowed to make my own choices. To be honest, I don't have and never have had much contact with atheist. Thats probably why I don't have a problem with religion.


(I do have a question about the " strong agnostic and atheist cult", If I join one, do I get a prize? I like free stuff, anything really. I would have joined the christians for a lead bible, but, I was told I would have to make it myself in the other athiest thread..... )

[Strafio]

lol! It depends on the cult...
Thing is, atheistic cults tend to be more profit based.
Take scientology - they give a "free personality test", diagnose you as mentally unstable and then sell you a $2000 therapy package, all within the space of your first visit! ;)

[WatchfulAbyss]

lol! It depends on the cult...
Thing is, atheistic cults tend to be more profit based.
Take scientology - they give a "free personality test", diagnose you as mentally unstable and then sell you a $2000 therapy package, all within the space of your first visit!


Well, that just wont do. I don't seem to be doing well on getting participation prizes. (I would like to know how to get involved in selling those therapy packages though........)

[Strafio]

The scheme is a strict pyramid.
There are ways to getting in straight to the top of the pyramid (like being a successful celebrity or Hubbard's reincarnation like on South Park) but I think your best bet would be to start your own, ensuring your position at the top! ;)

[WatchfulAbyss]

he scheme is a strict pyramid.
There are ways to getting in straight to the top of the pyramid (like being a successful celebrity or Hubbard's reincarnation like on South Park) but I think your best bet would be to start your own, ensuring your position at the top!

To much work!

[CosmicFish]

According to Homer's definitions, I'd classify myself as weak atheist / weak agnostic.

BTW - who else here hates the use of the word "weak"?

[LJoll]

According to Homer's definitions, I'd classify myself as weak atheist / weak agnostic.

BTW - who else here hates the use of the word "weak"?

Not me.

[Lily]

I guess under Homer's definition I would be a strong theist.

Though I'm a pagan by most people's definition :)

[tekkengod]

everyone knows my position, but by Homers definitions i'd say Strong Atheist

[Hapuka]

Dude, im just a christain. .. . :o

[Just.Jump]

Jesus - that grown up for santa right?

Guess which one I am


Same here =P

For me, the bible= sexist crap, with gaps between writing up to 400 years.

Ever play the game telephone?


If religion had a backing, there would only be one.

[wrydolphin]

Why would there be only one? Why would you expect all cultures to come up with the same interpretation?

[Topher]

Why would you expect all cultures to come up with the same interpretation?
Why would the "Truth" require interpretation?

And how can it be called "Truth" with so many contradictions/diffrences between them?

;)

[wrydolphin]

All things require cultural interpretation. Look at time. Time is a set measurement, 24 hours, 60 minutes. So why is it in different cultures that time is interpreted differenty? For some cultures 3pm means get there at 2:30 for others it means somewhere around 4. Look at death. Death is a biological reality. Yet cultures interpret death differently. Some cultures form a cult of the dead, in which it is taboo to even mention the dead person, and some cultures celebrate their dead. So if we cannot have other basic truths without cultural interpretation- then why would you expect us to have this one without cultural interpretation?

[Strafio]

Homer, not all religions/Christian Churches claim to have the exclusive truth.

[Topher]

All things require cultural interpretation. Look at time. Time is a set measurement, 24 hours, 60 minutes. So why is it in different cultures that time is interpreted differenty? For some cultures 3pm means get there at 2:30 for others it means somewhere around 4. Look at death. Death is a biological reality. Yet cultures interpret death differently. Some cultures form a cult of the dead, in which it is taboo to even mention the dead person, and some cultures celebrate their dead. So if we cannot have other basic truths without cultural interpretation- then why would you expect us to have this one without cultural interpretation?
Because even with the interpretations in your examples, we still have the truth/fact of it – that biologically we will die, that time is a set measurement etc. Cultural interpretations are irrelevant to this truth/fact and do not affect this truth/fact. Religion/god/supernatural however is a cultural interpretation, nothing more. It has no truth in which the interpretation is built around. That was my point.


Homer, not all religions/Christian Churches claim to have the exclusive truth.
I'm not arguing that they claim to have exclusive truth (although many do), i'm saying they believe what they believe is true/reality, and i'm sure pretty much all religions believe that.