"Under God" vote on Weds [Archive]

blessed_samurai

12-Jun-2006, 05:31 AM

jsmith

12-Jun-2006, 06:00 AM

I don't know much about the issue (not from the U.S.A.), but out of curiousity why do you think it's bad?

MadMonk108

12-Jun-2006, 06:11 AM

I really don't think this is happening.

Do you have a link to any sort of material verifying this?

ryanTKD

12-Jun-2006, 07:39 AM

Johnno

12-Jun-2006, 07:49 AM

I'm urging all to contact their congressman and urge them to vote against the bill that will take out the words "...under God" in The Pledge of Allegiance. The vote takes place on Weds and it's our congressmen/women that are voting for/against this.If you don't mind me asking, what is the Pledge of Allegiance? Is that the oath which schoolchildren have to say every morning?

Cheers. :)

succubus

12-Jun-2006, 07:53 AM

Pledge of allegiance:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to The Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

*withholds opinion*

blessed_samurai

12-Jun-2006, 11:43 AM

I really don't think this is happening.

Do you have a link to any sort of material verifying this?

http://www.rfcnet.org/news/default.asp?action=detail&article=392

Gary

12-Jun-2006, 11:53 AM

http://www.rfcnet.org/news/default.asp?action=detail&article=392
Why does a religous freedom coalition want a phrase dictating a single god for american citizens kept in? Or have I missed the point and it's more accurately a christian freedom coalition?

CanuckMA

12-Jun-2006, 11:59 AM

"under God" is a recent addition, it should be removed.

jonmonk

12-Jun-2006, 12:03 PM

holyheadjch

12-Jun-2006, 12:06 PM

With all the problems and suffering in the world today, you choose to urge people to contact their congressman for THIS?

Johnno

12-Jun-2006, 12:10 PM

"under God" is a recent addition, it should be removed.Who did it used to be under? :confused:

Matthew Barnes

12-Jun-2006, 12:18 PM

I'm urging all to contact their congressman and urge them to vote against the bill that will take out the words "...under God" in The Pledge of Allegiance. The vote takes place on Weds and it's our congressmen/women that are voting for/against this.

You mean you are one of those folks who likes tinkering with the pledge? You don't want it returned (or at least brought closer) to its original wording (http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm) , until the K of C pressured Congress to change it to chase out those godless commies? Ironically, or not, the Baptist Minister who wrote it seemed to think it was okay without 'Under God'. He was going to put 'equality' in, but he knew the powers that be didn't like that kind of talk.

Matt

medi

12-Jun-2006, 12:20 PM

Who did it used to be under? :confused:

Zod

http://www.saxonbullock.com/images/General-Zod.jpg

wrydolphin

12-Jun-2006, 12:22 PM

Truthfully, I could hardly care if it remains or not. It was only added in the fifties as a response to those Godless Communists Ruskies. :rolleyes:

Johnno

12-Jun-2006, 12:28 PM

Zod
Not Bod?

(I like Bod :) )

Davey Bones

12-Jun-2006, 12:29 PM

I'm urging all to contact their congressman and urge them to vote against the bill that will take out the words "...under God" in The Pledge of Allegiance. The vote takes place on Weds and it's our congressmen/women that are voting for/against this.

Never happen. Look at what happened in California. The US Supreme Court tossed the case out on a technicality. Our Congress is a tad too religious to do this.

succubus

12-Jun-2006, 12:30 PM

i think the pledge of allegiance needs a reference to the flying spaghetti monster.

rAmen.

holyheadjch

12-Jun-2006, 12:46 PM

why would a Christian Republic acknowledge his Worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Matthew Barnes

12-Jun-2006, 12:48 PM

i think the pledge of allegiance needs a reference to the flying spaghetti monster.

rAmen.

We can only hope he will reach out and Touch them with His Noodly Appendage.

Matt

Johnno

12-Jun-2006, 12:48 PM

i think the pledge of allegiance needs a reference to the flying spaghetti monster.

rAmen.They could change their currency too:

"In the Flying Spaghetti Monster we trust."

:D

slipthejab

12-Jun-2006, 12:51 PM

With all the problems and suffering in the world today, you choose to urge people to contact their congressman for THIS?

B

I

N

G

O

!

:bang:

succubus

12-Jun-2006, 12:52 PM

They could change their currency too:

"In the Flying Spaghetti Monster we trust."

:D
"in noodles we trust"

harrrrrrrrrr!

blessed_samurai

12-Jun-2006, 02:56 PM

With all the problems and suffering in the world today, you choose to urge people to contact their congressman for THIS?
Oh, you mean instead of all the homelessness, abuse of children, the neglect of our public transit system...or maybe since it's suffereing of the world-the plight of 3rd world countries?

A-because apparently very few people knew this bill was up to be voted on and I thought I'd give a heads up for those that wanted to have a bit of say on it
B-if I need to urge someone to contact their congressman for the blatant suffering, well....

But it'll prob stand as GC said.

SlowLearner

12-Jun-2006, 04:39 PM

Seriously, who cares? I'm Buddhism and back in grade school I was able to recite the pledge without any problem. It's not like you wake up everyday hearing it. (unless you're an elementary school teacher :p )

My God != Your God.

Davey Bones

12-Jun-2006, 05:01 PM

Oh, you mean instead of all the homelessness, abuse of children, the neglect of our public transit system...or maybe since it's suffereing of the world-the plight of 3rd world countries?

A-because apparently very few people knew this bill was up to be voted on and I thought I'd give a heads up for those that wanted to have a bit of say on it
B-if I need to urge someone to contact their congressman for the blatant suffering, well....

But it'll prob stand as GC said.

I know my legislators are working on other social issues. It's nice to hear that they're working on the more controversial ones once in a while and may do the right thing.

MadMonk108

13-Jun-2006, 05:00 AM

Now give me another link from an unbiased source that says Congress is seeking to pass a bill that would remove "under God" from the pledge of allegiance.

Your source doesn't even say that.

Nowhere in that article does it say that Congress will vote on Wednesday to remove the "Under God" line.

Rather, it says that a bill that would protect the "Under God" line would be put forward.

This is bull. Please don't twist the truth.

medi

13-Jun-2006, 05:11 AM

blessed_samurai

13-Jun-2006, 05:21 AM

Nowhere in that article does it say that Congress will vote on Wednesday to remove the "Under God" line.

Rather, it says that a bill that would protect the "Under God" line would be put forward.

This is bull. Please don't twist the truth.

Soooo...why would there be a bill to protect the wording "...under God" if it didn't need protecting (i.e. there is a bill to have it removed)?

The Oklahoma representative Congressman Istook addressed/spoke about this issue/bill in person Sunday night. This is where I got my information from. As I said, I was merely putting this out there for those who were not aware and wished to have a say so to have a say so. Those that don't care...well, don't call.

I could not find a better link and, my link being a poor one, I apologize. There was no ill-intention as you seem to think there was. However, I am glad that you took the time to address that as you did.

Yes, Medi...I was pwned. :rolleyes:

medi

13-Jun-2006, 05:25 AM

Soooo...why would there be a bill to protect the wording "...under God" if it didn't need protecting (i.e. there is a bill to have it removed)?

The Oklahoma representative Congressman Istook addressed/spoke about this issue/bill in person Sunday night. This is where I got my information from. As I said, I was merely putting this out there for those who were not aware and wished to have a say so to have a say so. Those that don't care...well, don't call.

I could not find a better link and, my link being a poor one, I apologize. There was no ill-intention as you seem to think there was. However, I am glad that you took the time to address that as you did.

Yes, Medi...I was pwned. :rolleyes:

Sorry I didn't intend to sound mean, it was meant in a lighthearted way. I just forgot to add some of these: :Angel: :Angel: :cool: ;) :love:

blessed_samurai

13-Jun-2006, 05:27 AM

Sorry I didn't intend to sound mean, it was meant in a lighthearted way. I just forgot to add some of these: :Angel: :Angel: :cool: ;) :love:

My bad. Humor is hard to express over the net. ;) :)

medi

13-Jun-2006, 05:28 AM

My bad. Humor is hard to express over the net. ;) :)

No need to apologise, the fault was mine. :Angel: :Alien: :rolleyes: :love: :p :eek:

Matthew Barnes

14-Jun-2006, 03:52 AM

I'm urging all to contact their congressman and urge them to vote against the bill that will take out the words "...under God" in The Pledge of Allegiance. The vote takes place on Weds and it's our congressmen/women that are voting for/against this.

Well, I've just finished canvassing. Thanks to your reminder, I and many of my friends have called our congressfolks to put an end to the tampering with the pledge. Yep, It was good enough in 1892, so let's get rid of that johnny-come-lately 'under god' that Eisenhower added in 1954. I mean it had been around for over 60 years before he messed with it! Let's undo the damage.

Back to basics I say!

Matt

blessed_samurai

14-Jun-2006, 05:42 AM

Well, I've just finished canvassing. Thanks to your reminder, I and many of my friends have called our congressfolks to put an end to the tampering with the pledge. Let's undo the damage.

Back to basics I say!

Matt

I see how this back fired on me.

MadMonk108

14-Jun-2006, 06:01 AM

I see how this back fired on me.

Pretty much.

Sorry.

Banpen Fugyo

14-Jun-2006, 06:04 AM

blessed_samurai

14-Jun-2006, 06:06 AM

Pretty much.

Sorry.

No reason to apologize. That's the beauty of a voting/openly expressing nation...you are able to express as you want. I may not agree but I respect that X person says/votes/decides how they feel (generally).

blessed_samurai

14-Jun-2006, 06:10 AM

I actually think its ALMOST SEMI-important... Its another way of the retarded extreme right to put their proverbial cross in society's ass. Honestly I'm getting sick and tired of religious people thinking they have more of an opinion on the government than atheist or non-christians. Its pathetic.

Oh c'mon now. Christians are simply trying to vote against/speak out against what militant atheist are trying to accomplish (i.e. striking God's name, etc from schools and public places). Don't think that "religious people" are the only ones speaking out...after all, if those against organized religion weren't out trying to change things, "religious people" wouldn't be out trying to defend what they believe in or for.

MadMonk108

14-Jun-2006, 06:18 AM

No reason to apologize. That's the beauty of a voting/openly expressing nation...you are able to express as you want. I may not agree but I respect that X person says/votes/decides how they feel (generally).

I agree with you on the issue of freedom of religion.

I just don't think this issue is intrinsically important to it.

MadMonk108

14-Jun-2006, 06:19 AM

Oh c'mon now. Christians are simply trying to vote against/speak out against what militant atheist are trying to accomplish (i.e. striking God's name, etc from schools and public places). Don't think that "religious people" are the only ones speaking out...after all, if those against organized religion weren't out trying to change things, "religious people" wouldn't be out trying to defend what they believe in or for.

What about all the Christians who don't want prayer in school or in public places?

blessed_samurai

14-Jun-2006, 06:23 AM

What about all the Christians who don't want prayer in school or in public places?

Then they will speak out against public prayer. This is their choice.

Banpen Fugyo

14-Jun-2006, 06:23 AM

Striking God's name from schools and public places is a bad thing?

This reminds me of an episode of Jackass when whats-his-face dressed up like Satan and walked around the city saying "Keep God out of California"...... then a christian punched him in the face.

Its just retarded, if I dont want my children saying "under God" in the pledge, then thats that. Pressing GOD onto people, esp children at a young age is messed up. Religion is something between YOU and GOD. It shouldnt be in the government, and it shouldnt be in schools. Why dont we say "one nation, under buddha" ? If it doesnt matter?

if those against organized religion weren't out trying to change things, "religious people" wouldn't be out trying to defend what they believe in or for.

And in case you didnt notice, things DO need to change. Its not as easy as "well if people would just agree with us and believe in Jesus then everything would be fine". Christian influences are rampant all over America, and it is influencing people it shouldnt. People like Congressman and government officials and.. uh the president.

Again, this is just one little teenie way of christians shoving their mess down peoples throats.

blessed_samurai

14-Jun-2006, 06:33 AM

Banpen, this is not a discussion thread against Christians "shoving" this or that. This was (as I had stated previously a couple of times) a thread so others would know what was coming up on Weds and send out their feelings to their congressman. Originally, it was meant for Christians to ask their congressman not to vote out "under God" in the pledge but it turns out that it opened up for both sides of the coin. Let your voice be heard as you want...if you don't want "under God" in the pledge, contact your congressman, don't gripe at me about "the Christians" spreading propaganda that you don't believe in.

Christian influences are rampant? I'd actually say it's closer to the other side of the coin...
Ever looked at the attendence in churches vs how many people view porn?
Ever looked at the statistics of who considers they will go to Heaven vs how many people commit murder, rape, arson, etc each year?

I mean, please forbid that Christian influences and principles are spread.

Espressing your opinion on "...under God" in the pledge is one thing but going on a tangent about the Christenizing of America is another.

jonmonk

14-Jun-2006, 07:36 AM

Banpen, this is not a discussion thread against Christians "shoving" this or that.I'm not American but if this pledge is said by kids at school then isn't that exactly what it is? You want to continue to force kids to say that your country is 'under God' whatever that means. Seems to me that having that in there says that you can't be loyal to your country unless you believe in God. That can't be right.
Ever looked at the attendence in churches vs how many people view porn?Yeah because church goers never view porn. Espressing your opinion on "...under God" in the pledge is one thing but going on a tangent about the Christenizing of America is another.I don't think so. It looks like exactly the same thing to me.

Johnno

14-Jun-2006, 07:44 AM

Ever looked at the attendence in churches vs how many people view porn?In that case, maybe it should be changed to "One nation under porn"?

holyheadjch

14-Jun-2006, 08:32 AM

In that case, maybe it shoud be changed to "One nation under porn"?
I'd vote for that!

KickChick

14-Jun-2006, 02:05 PM

IMO the phrase "one nation under God" is more historical than religious... it was people seeking religious freedom who founded the USA

No one is forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance http://www.chins-n-quills.com/forums/images/smilies/emot-911.gif

holyheadjch

14-Jun-2006, 02:08 PM

I thought schoolchildren were...

Thomas

14-Jun-2006, 02:21 PM

I thought schoolchildren were...
How much pressure is put on them is really up to the teachers and administrators of the school. At the high school I work at, it really depends on the teacher. We recommend that students stand up and recite the pledge along with the announcement on the speaker. I have had students who refuse to (especially some of our Native American students). How to deal with it? I ask that they stand silently, or if they have a problem with even standing, that they are silent while the pledge is on.

In the local area, there was a bit of controversy at some of the other schools where the Mohawk students were offering up the "thanksgiving address (in Mohawk)" at the beginning and end of the school day along with the pledge of allegiance. School lawyers recommended dropping the Thanksgiving address because it has "religious connotations" (mentions the "creator") to prevent any sort of lawsuit. They decided to keep the pledge however. :rolleyes:

Articles:
http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096411700
http://humaniststudies.org/enews/?id=210&article=2

The address:
http://www.ganondagan.org/thanksgiving.html

On the original topic, I'd like to see "under God" stricken from the pledge even if just to give it a more "separation of church and state" look.

Johnno

14-Jun-2006, 02:22 PM

... it was people seeking religious freedom who founded the USA
I thought it was people who wanted cheaper tea? ;)

MadMonk108

14-Jun-2006, 02:25 PM

In that case, maybe it should be changed to "One nation under porn"?

Heh.

My country. Love it or leave it.

CanuckMA

14-Jun-2006, 02:27 PM

I thought it was people who wanted cheaper tea? ;)

They were Brits. Cheaper teas WAS religious freedom.

holyheadjch

14-Jun-2006, 02:28 PM

this is true

KickChick

14-Jun-2006, 02:29 PM

Students have a clear constitutional right to not recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

Apparently though those who exercise their right not to, are seen as not paying hommage to their country.

Like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, that don't say the Pledge of Allegiance for religious reasons or the atheists who feel the that the Pledge excludes them because it’s been transformed into a religious oath and is not simply an expression of patriotism.

holyheadjch

14-Jun-2006, 02:35 PM

Students have a clear constitutional right to not recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

Apparently though those who exercise their right do not to are seen as not paying hommage to their country.

Like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, that don't say the Pledge of Allegiance for religious reasons or the atheists who feel the that the Pledge excludes them because it’s been transformed into a religious oath and is not simply an expression of patriotism.
Seems like a lot of hassle for very little reward to me. If we tried that in the Uk there'd be an uproar. The Monarchists would demand it made reference to the Queen whilst the "Murderous Commy Scum" (guess which side I'm on) would demand that it didn't.

slipthejab

14-Jun-2006, 02:41 PM

I'd be curious to know just how much taxpayer money has been spent on trying to get these words removed.

I bet if there was a dollar amount attached to it and everyone who wants it removed had to ante up... there'd be a whole lot people who didn't really care... rather quickly.

We had it when I was a kid... most mumbled there way through it... a few Jehovah's Witness kids didn't have to say it. Not many really knew much about it either way.

Kick Chick is correct... as kids saying it we never really gave two cents about the religious interpetations of it... it was always thought to be simply more along patriotic lines. I don't think given the history of the founding of the US that there is neccessarily always a clear black and white divide between the two.

Gary

14-Jun-2006, 02:44 PM

They were Brits. Cheaper teas WAS religious freedom.
IS :D

Gary

14-Jun-2006, 02:46 PM

Seems like a lot of hassle for very little reward to me. If we tried that in the Uk there'd be an uproar. The Monarchists would demand it made reference to the Queen whilst the "Murderous Commy Scum" (guess which side I'm on) would demand that it didn't.
Who would save the queen if they did that to our national anthem? :eek:

KickChick

14-Jun-2006, 02:59 PM

Maxine on "Solidarity"

- "It's 'one nation under God...', or bite my skinny old ass and leave!"

holyheadjch

14-Jun-2006, 03:04 PM

Who would save the queen if they did that to our national anthem? :eek:
He has a point!

Gary

14-Jun-2006, 03:10 PM

He has a point!
That's a first :D

holyheadjch

14-Jun-2006, 03:12 PM

I never considered the religious ramifications of the National Anthem, what were the Sex Pistols thinking?

jonmonk

14-Jun-2006, 03:19 PM

I never considered the religious ramifications of the National Anthem, what were the Sex Pistols thinking?There is a difference though. One of the queen's jobs is to be head of the church of England. Also, it's different when you have a monarchy because historically the person who sat on the throne was there because they were chosen by God to be there. In a republic it's meant to be the people who choose isn't it?

holyheadjch

14-Jun-2006, 03:20 PM

thats the idea.

Gary

14-Jun-2006, 03:21 PM

There is a difference though. One of the queen's jobs is to be head of the church of England. Also, it's different when you have a monarchy because historically the person who sat on the throne was there because they were chosen by God to be there. In a republic it's meant to be the people who choose isn't it?
It's true, we're doomed as a country to a religous oppression in our anthem :cry:

CanuckMA

14-Jun-2006, 04:14 PM

It's true, we're doomed as a country to a religous oppression in our anthem :cry:

You're only doomed as a country if Chucky becomes King.

holyheadjch

14-Jun-2006, 04:19 PM

Charles is alright, its that evil cow camilla we have to watch out for.

CanuckMA

14-Jun-2006, 04:58 PM

Anybody who prefers somebody who looks like Camila over somebody who looked like Diana is highly suspicious in my mind.

firecoins

14-Jun-2006, 05:01 PM

Who did it used to be under? :confused:
It used to be under a guy named Larry but he was unavailable in the 1950's and God filled in. Some people like God better but I want Larry back.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to The Republic for which it stands, one Nation under Larry, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

CanuckMA

14-Jun-2006, 05:10 PM

In all seriousness, the original Pledge used to read

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to The Republic for which it stands, one Nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all

jonmonk

14-Jun-2006, 06:33 PM

It's true, we're doomed as a country to a religous oppression in our anthem :cry:I think the real problem is that the words:

Flying spaghetti monster save our gracious queen

doesn't fit the tune.

Gary

14-Jun-2006, 07:26 PM

I think the real problem is that the words:

Flying spaghetti monster save our gracious queen

doesn't fit the tune.
You're right, we need to change the tune as well. I always thought it was a little too downbeat anyway. I suggest the tune to Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, especially since more UK citizens know the words than the national anthem.

Probably.

medi

14-Jun-2006, 07:34 PM

tekkengod

16-Jun-2006, 03:52 PM

to be honest it dosent' bother me and i say the pledge every morning, but i just kinda skip over those words. but it would be nice to see it gone. i'm tired of the religious kids pointing and whispering! :D

Johnno

16-Jun-2006, 08:23 PM

You're right, we need to change the tune as well. I always thought it was a little too downbeat anyway. I suggest the tune to Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody, especially since more UK citizens know the words than the national anthem.

Probably.Ba-ba-bing!!! I've been thinking this ever since the World Cup began! We need a new National Anthem!

But I don't want to sidetrack this thread, so I'll go and start a new one. :Angel:

firecoins

16-Jun-2006, 08:53 PM

I thought it was people who wanted cheaper tea? ;)
No they just didn't like English tea.

Johnno

16-Jun-2006, 09:00 PM

No they just didn't like English tea.Sadly we can't actually grow tea in England. (Whether global warming will change that remains to be seen.)

But the American colonists (like all Brits) loved their cuppa, and were so annoyed about the tax on tea that they only went and declared independance! (Slightly simplified potted history of the American Revolution.)

Mind you, the same thing would happen if they tried to do the same in Yorkshire.